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Character Progression Update
For those still wondering if CF is a MOBA or lacks RPG or player creation, etc. this might be of some insight...
http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/4418-031315-character-progression-faq/
Character Progression FAQ
How does character progression work?
Character progression happens in a few different ways.
At character creation, the player selects an Archetype, and a series of Advantages and Disadvantages.
This is done on a point system; each character (or avatar) has a set number of points that can be spent to improve the character. Additional points can be gained by taking Disadvantages. There is a limit to the number of Advantage and Disadvantage runes that can be added to each character.
After creating the character and advancing your base skills to a level of competency through gameplay, each Archetype has the option to promote to another Class or occupation. We are planning for multiple promotion classes for each base Archetype.
The promotion classes enable the player to skew their character in a specific direction. Want to be a Knight who does more damage? Promote to Swordsman! Want to be a Knight who has even more defensive skills? Promote to Crusader! Want to be a Knight who has a ranged weapon and skills? Promote to Sentinel!
Can I change my Promotion Class later?
No. There are a few changes that are permanent, and this is one of them. Choose carefully.
What does a promotion class grant?
In almost all cases the promotion class increases your skill maximums on all relevant skills. This enables the player to train their skills deeper into a chosen path, becoming a master at what they do.
Most of the time promotion also grants new powers to use in combat and extends the awesomeness of existing powers.
Sometimes promotion will grant a new weapon that can be used along with skills and powers that accompany it. Such as a melee class gaining the ability to use a bow and the skills that accompany bow usage.
Promotion also offers the character a final chance to alter any of their advantages and disadvantages. At this point we think the player fully understands what would be useful to their character as a permanent choice.
What are the requirements to promote?
We are still working on the exact mechanics that will allow a character to promote to their promotion class but are pretty sure it will have something to do with skill points. Either earn a specific total amount of skill points or train some specific skills to a required amount. It might even be a combination of both.
After I select a Promotion Classes, am I done with customization?
No. In addition to promotion classes, characters can also take Disciplines, which are a type of “sub-class” to further customize your character.
Disciplines are applied by collecting Runestones in the game, and applying them to your character. Not every Discipline will be available to every Archetype – but every Archetype will have access to many, many Disciplines.
Disciplines allow you to further customize your characters skills and powers. Want to focus that Knight on more sword damage? Or increasing his Strength attribute? Or turning into a Werebear? These are the types of customization effects that can be added by using Disciplines.
Discipline runes can increase your skill max with certain skills, grant access to new skills and powers, grant you new crafting recipes, or give you the ability to master weapon types that are normally restricted.
The skills, powers and recipes granted by Disciplines are typically very thematic. For example, we wouldn't have a generic “Weapon Master” discipline that gives you a bonus to swords, spears and shields – but we might have a “Gladiator” discipline that does exactly that, because it makes sense that a Gladiator might have that particular collection of skills.
Discipline Examples:
Alchemist Runestone
“Wine from Water, Gold from Lead”
- Grants Potion Recipes
- Grants Alchemy Skill
- Grants Inventory Bag (Potions) - Potions placed in Potion bag will not explode when hit
Werewolf Runestone
“For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack”
- Grants Limited Time Transformation Power - Grants Werewolf combat powers while in Werewolf form
- Grants Bonus Damage Vampyre Stat
- Increases Movement speed Stat
- Grants equipment slot: Jorts
Can my Disciplines be changed?
Yes, you can overwrite existing Discipline Runestones with new ones. Doing so will remove or reduce the benefits granted by the previous Discipline, and destroy the old one in the process.
Do Disciplines have restrictions?
Some of them do, usually in any case where an animation set is required for that weapon which that archetype may not have. For example the Cavalier Discipline (which grants shield mastery and block powers) would not be usable by Duelist archetype, because they do not have the necessary skill pre-requirements (shields) or animation sets.
Can you give me some examples of other Disciplines?
Sure. Here are a few examples.
Standard Bearer
Rune Caster
Collector
Lapidary
Beastmaster
Ratcatcher
Blood of the Ancients
Berserker
Swashbuckler
Stonecutter
Commander
Where do Disciplines Runestones come from?
Disciplines are found by participating in Campaigns.
The exact method varies: they can be scavenged (meaning they will spawn in ruins, or uncovered as buried treasure when tunneling in the ground), some can be crafted (using additives and resources found in the Campaign worlds) some can be granted as a special Campaign reward.
Can Discipline Runes be traded?
Yes, but since they can’t be removed (only destroyed), you can only use them if they have not yet been applied to a character.
Comments
looks like a pretty deep class system for a pvp game....hopefully they pull it off.
also their plans for the mounts =Q hopefully they hit the 1.3 mil goal
I'm concerned about this. With training skills done in real-time, and promotions and discipline runes that allow you to train further into selected skill, it'll too easily mean that time passed after character creation determines the winner of any 1vs1 engagement.
If they offered horizontal progression with their training system, it could be a good thing for the game. Now it looks like that new players entering the world can be a generalist who are able to do multiple things, but old characters are specialists who have gained more power in their chosen focus based on the date of character creation.
http://crowfall.com/#/faq/54e9501e93fc8d634e4d690c
This gives a bit more explanation.
While age and build choice will have an impact on a characters power, it appears they are trying to even the playing field somewhat between new and vet players. So that a 1 year old character is not 500% stronger than a new player like most games.
Looks like it will be relatively quick and painless to reach a point where a player is useful in general. From there they go down further specialization to increase whatever they want but there will be diminishing returns.
With that said, this isn't a 1 vs 1 game or 5 vs 5. While they appear to be putting in mechanics to not reward zerging, numbers are supposed to matter. So that a group of new players should have a chance against 1 vet or even a few if they know how to play.
Without going into a progression less system, no easy way to avoid the power creep. Although their design seems to make it less substantial.
Nope, I don't see how they are supposedly evening the playing field.
Just for the record, I'm not against old characters being more powerful than new ones. I'm against a system that would encourage new players to not play because there's nothing they can do to the power difference besides quit the game and return a couple of months later.
It same as in EvE, completely new player cant compete but can get useful pretty fast if he focuses his training.
Also note that this is an action combat game, so presumably a player with slightly weaker stats could still win if he has better skill shots / dodges or the opponent whiffs on big CD skills.
The devs have also stated that not all skills/talents are combat related, so a character that focuses completely on training in direct combat and is good in 1v1 will not necessarily be able to do other things like crafting and gathering or generate 'warmth' (whatever that means, but if you are outside in the cold for to long I speculate you will get a stat debuff).
Basically a vet character will not necessarily be completely combat focused, and a noob character that is weaker in a 1v1 may still be invaluable in other support or logistical roles.
As pointed out by Malabooga, the design allows new players to relatively quickly get to a place that would allow them to play with those that have been around longer.
It isn't to balance or make it fair, but make it a reasonable difference. Going from 100 pts after a month to 175 after 6 months or longer could result in only 10% more power or whatever. For some it would be worth the time investment and potential neglect of other skills. For others, having 20 skills at 125 might be a better option.
Again, this isn't a 1 vs 1 dueling game. 20 vs 20, 50 vs 50, 100 vs 100, someone doing 10% more damage potentially in one area isn't going to be a big deal when so many variables come into play.
This is where the RPG end comes in and not the MOBA/FPS side.
Want to be better? Play the game.
They've talked about it a bit more on the forum, but without context it is hard to fully see. I'm going by what they've said and even though I'll be in on day 1, I'm assuming players joining a month, 6 months, 3 years later won't fill totally useless nor will they have to grind for X amount of time before they can actually play. But as they play and skills raise passively/actively, they'll notice the boost in performance.
Source for this, please. Since they already have training taking exponentially longer as you progress, I think it's unlikely that they'd also have diminishing power gain per skill point trained. Especially considering what it would do to their class and specialization system that has larger skill point caps to most important skills as large part of the system. Power gained per skill point will be linear, and with skills such as swords for most people it'll make sense to try to get one battle skill as high as possible if you have time for it.
If the power increase per skill point trained is linear, it's very unlikely that difference between 100 points and 175 points would be only 10%. That would mean difference between 0 skill and 175 skill would be less than 27% more power. Would the devs really make their skills so insignificant that the difference between 0 skill and maxed skill is just 27%? The difference will be a lot more than that.
I think that's the issue. Want to be better? Do not play the game, create an account and leave it waiting for a couple of months as you do something other and your skills develop.
You may want to read this:
http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/2871-concern-over-passive-vs-active-skill-training/?p=75798
and this:
http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/4007-040915-skill-training-faq-behind-the-scenes-with-the-artists/?p=99298
The two above links along with the FAQs and other dev comments are pretty much the source of where I'm coming from.
1%, 5%, 10% or whatever might be insignificant to you but for some (min/maxers especially) that could mean everything.
Unlike typical designs though, it isn't a straight linear path of lvl 1-100 where no matter what 100 > 1 in all ways. A 100 Skill in X could be more useful vs 175 Skill in Y. Allowing someone relatively new to compete against an older character in whatever way. Obviously 175 of X is better than 100 of X, but from the looks of it, still won't be instant win due to multiple variables.
So the whole "go AFK until your can compete" view isn't needed. Players should be able to jump in and rather quickly be a useful member of a guild-team-alliance or even 1 on 1 depending on the format. However, it isn't a FPS/MOBA where getting the most kills in 5 min is the goal, so everything is supposed to progress naturally as campaigns happen.
I'm sure someone starting a year or five down the road might have a tougher time than someone that has been there from day one, but that's the same no matter what. There is a clear difference between a new/vet in a FPS/MOBA as well. Should new players not even bother since old players have so much experience? If the answer is yes, I'd imagine most lobby type games would be closed down rather quickly.
Unique? They copied the advantages/disadvantages from Camelot unchained's "Bane/boons" at creation. Does crowfall do anything original that nobody has done before?
Might want to check out Shadowbane's character creation/progression system and then compare that to DAOC/WAR. Then take a look at what CU and CF are doing. Not hard to see where the inspiration came from (hint, not CU).
I get you have gone full CU fanboi, but come on now. Both are borrowing heavily from previous games and concepts that have been around since forever. "Banes/Boons" are not new.
Both are fairly unique in what they are bringing (independently) to the current market and gamer. Vast majority of folks didn't get to experience the early games from these devs and it is great to see them pumping new life and blood into the older visions.
Really like the potential of CU's skill crafting, but I'd hardly call that unique or original. Still nice to see it in a mmorpg that I might actually give a try one day.
Oh well, continue on with your negativity. Although it does make you look fairly foolish.
Let's not get it twisted.... I am far from a fanboi, i won't tolerate BS. Whether it's from CU or Crowfall. CU doesn't have anything that i can get in an uproar about. But trust me, when they do. I'll make sure the IT forums get lit up. Whether that's something i don't like, or something i don't think is implemented right, whether it matters or not is not my control. That's the difference between a fanboi and someone with confidence in a game. I won't tolerate halfassery.
I just don't like crowfall. I don't like the graphics, i don't like that it's arena style pvp, action combat, It's not persistent.
I get that you do, can i make a suggestion? Find yourself a good guild..Or you're just going to get rolled over and over again by the others. As someone who has been in the #1 ffa pvp guild. I can assure you, being solo or in a small guild. It's not fun. I know, because all those guys wanted to join ours.
Edit.
I still have 6 days to decide. I love me some FFA pvp that's for sure. I am on the fence with my 425 or 150 locks. $425 is a lot of dough, but can't i flip some of that vip subs for $$?
Allein, since you know everything there is to know about crowfall.
Will there be a speed class? Will groups have speed? What is group size? Will there be long duration CC and counters to it? Why would a small group or 10-20 people be more successful than 50 person zerging around? Has the development team commented on #'s = win ? Are they encouraging/discouraging zerging?
What exactly is the progression in the dregs? Is there a pvp related kill/rank system? I assume there is a soft cap, once you reach soft cap, then what?
Why should i care about relics? So my carebear EK home looks cool?
Lol, all CU fanboism aside....
wtf do people care about this:
https://www.google.hr/search?q=world+cup+trophy&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=o6UKVaC5Hsb9Up6WgegM&sqi=2&ved=0CC0QsAQ
I mean, it just sits there for years collecting dust and just looks pretty.
Guess I'm missing the halfassery or BS. Just calling out the comment about them copying CU, which they clearly didn't. Unless CF is copying CU which is copying SB which is copying PnP which is....
Stuff in yellow sums it up well. Different games for different folks.
While I know it is fairly standard practice on this site to go into a specific games forum/article or whatever and talk trash, guess I miss the point. Like I said, makes you and others that do it look a bit foolish.
Already joined a friendly guild that jumped to 100 members already. The days of trying to top the charts or dominate are past me, but I don't plan on losing either.
For me that is one of the big differences between CU and CF. There is a lot of potential for outcomes with CF. While CU will most likely have the typical issues of the top few percent dominating the majority of others and that's it. Without gamey mechanics to balance it out, it will lead to frustration. Unless the pop gets dwindled down to the best of the best and the average gamer leaves it behind.
Bringing some of the "lobby" experience into CF, for me, makes winning/losing part of the experience. I can lose a bunch of matches in a row in a FPS then go on to dominate and top the charts. It's part of the experience. If I only won or only lost, I'd get bored very quickly.
With the new backer goal of VR support, looks like CF will continue to be unlike what has come before.
After trying to read through the walls of MJ's mind spilling out, I still don't know what really makes CU "unique" or worth my time. Some interesting features, but nothing really too outside what I'd expect from him or faction PVP games.
However, I have no need to go into the CU forum and talk down as if I or what I like is better in some way. To each their own, but seems like a waste to me.
Red is, to put it mildly, biased and I could write a book on why I think green is wrong, but that`s neither on topic nor my point. You are good, and have 100% my support, when explaining and defending CF, but when bashing CU (be it here or on CU forums, there is no difference) you are getting closer to that which you, formally, despise
I come here for the banter/discussion, don't despise anyone or anything. But if someone calls out a game and I find it incorrect or non constructive, going to point it out. Everyone is free to do what they want, but basically coming into a specific game's forum and going "I don't like this, it sucks" doesn't really add anything. Constructive criticism is great, straight negativity not so much. I give Will credit though as he said above that he simply dislikes pretty much the overall concept of the game. No harm in that, but I fail to see the need to keep pointing it out. To me it is either to start drama, which I guess is pretty much the majority of comments on this site, so makes sense, or to make the game look bad.
DAoC is my favorite PVP mmo and probably tied with Vanilla WoW with the most enjoyment over a period of time that I've had with these games. WAR was also a lot of fun, but not quite fully realized which is a shame as the IP is great.
Not meaning to bash CU, but as he clearly prefers it and between here and the CF forums has made comments to put them head to head, to me CU is fair game and relevant to some degree.
CU is surely aimed at those that enjoyed DAoC and faction based PVP. Which I've loved, but grown tired of. The skill crafting, individual body part damage/protection, and out of game connections are great to see, beyond that I'm having a hard time not seeing a lot of DAoC plus a bit of "sandbox" tossed in. Which again isn't an issue, but DAoC had issues which I see CU running into as well. A pretty cool character design and being able to chat with others on a phone while at work aren't going to solve those potential issues.
Hence the part in red. If you could explain or direct me to how they plan to avoid the typical open world PVP power issues, would love to know. To me this is maybe CF's strongest selling point. Start/finish, win/loss.
Nitpicking, find the "hardcore oldschool" use a bit silly as well when CU won't have player looting or FFA, from what I understand. Subjective, but still funny when compared to CF which has a bit more in this area. MJ seems like a great guy though and I wouldn't want to be trapped in his mind, the walls of text are killer.
Anyway, as the CU forum here is dead and this one isn't much better, wouldn't mind a bit of discussion as to what makes CU stand out and have a long term future.