Rewind to 2004. October, early Novemberish. Having been in open and closed beta, I knew I wanted to start playing World of Warcraft. Ordered myself a collector's edition. November 24th, I stocked up on Pepsi and Twizzlers. Got myself a new gaming mouse. A week prior, my friends and I started some guild forums. I even came to mmorpg to get some recruits.
The launch was a little rough, but before long we were sucked in. We rented out a Ventrilo server and jumped from zone to zone. None of my friends rolled a healer, so we rolled without one. Open world PvP, finally finishing our first Maradaun run, and finally hitting 60. Farmed long enough to get the first epic mount on the server. Our small guild ended up joining another guild to start raiding Molten Core. That feeling we got for the first time of entering the portal, taking 15m to buff up, and staring at those two molten giants aware we had a long night ahead of us.
Now, this is not a post on how World of Warcraft has changed. But that feeling I got when I logged in ten years ago is long, long, long gone. The past few years I've hopped from game to game trying to achieve that feeling I got back in late 2004/early 2005. But its gone. I tried the Warhammer, went out and bought Rift, started Guild Wars 2, and even tried Aion. Now and then I'll resub to Warcraft, and its a shell of what it used to be. Everything is served on a platter. I have a routine I go through when starting/leveling a new character. Its really no different than changing the oil in my truck. Get the tools/addons I need, crank out the job as quick as possible, and focus just being done. Hurry up and focus on leveling to 100 in a few days and start waiting in LFG. The challenge is gone. Nothing compares to what I experienced when I started Warcraft. Nothing.
Perhaps its because I'm older. Perhaps its because I've been gaming for over twenty years. Maybe now that since I'm married, have the whole career thing, a house to maintain, and other hobbies, but there isn't a game out there that gets me excited like World of Warcraft did. Not sure if its a sign of me moving on from gaming, or if every game out there is a copy of something else.
But that feeling of newness, excitement, and experiencing everything for the first time in a game has been gone for almost ten years now. Is there any way to get that back? Or am I just grasping for straws?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Aaah I see you are 29 years old, if the age you posted is correct.
You are about to learn, that this fact applies to everything in life, not just games.
Better get a handle on it now, or the rest of your life will be sorely disappointing as well. Enjoy new experiences. Just don't expect them all the time. The older you get the less this will happen, but you will get used to it.
Or you could become a Bitter Vet like most of the posters on these forums.
Probably an optimist too. They crash harder when things don't go the way they expect.
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
OP - you can't ever get *the same* feeling back again but you can have new as strong or better feelings again.
The trick is *not the game* - its ones mindset.
Strong feelings are triggered by external stimuli (first time experience usually), but the feeling itself is something that you create inside yourself.
So through meditation and learning to look at each moment with a sense of wonder - everyone can retrain their own mind to experience familiar experiences as NEW.
No this is not easy but as many goals in life - how bad do you want it?
It is achievable.
Free your mind - and you will get the feeling back.
But expecting a new game to do the trick - it won't happen, because of mental baggage and expectations
Learn to see the world through the eyes of a child again
There you have it.....internet psychologist. Just stop with this absurdness. It IS the games, it is 100% the games. Just because you like this new crap they label MMO's does not mean the problem is us.
Your belief shapes your experience - since you believe that it is 100% the games - that is the limitation you create for yourself. The problem is not people, the problem is limiting beliefs that get in the way from seeing possibilities.
Ummm, no. I see FACTS as they are. The games are in FACT different today, esp when we are talking about the lack of features which used to create community. I do not like these games today because they lack what made me fall in love with this genre, period. No other reason. If they started making chocolate different I might not like that anymore either....and it would not be because of my beliefs, it would be because they made it different.
Once again, just because you read a psychology book does not mean you have the goods on every person here. You don't know me and frankly the arrogance is getting dull. You are extremely arrogant to think you can tell me why I think a certain way.
This is the way I see it, the games have changed and my preferences really haven't. OK, that's my problem but doesn't mean I'm going to adapt to liking the way they are delivered today, I don't have to, especially since I do have one title that suits my needs.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I remember when I was like 12 years old and my dad and I went to buy a 27 inch TV for the family living room. Waking up early on a Saturday morning, watching all my favorite cartoons on that 27 inch color TV, was so amazing. Now fast forward to about 5 years ago. I buy myself a 54 inch flat screen with Surround sound, DVD player, the whole nine yards. Watching the Lord of the Rings trilogy in hi fi sound on a bigass LCD, yeah uh .. sorry what was that about a 27 inch and cartoons, couldn't hear you with the 7.1 surround on.
Tony "DMKano" Robbins plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Unfortunately MMO's haven't progressed nearly as much audio/video technology has in the last ten years.
Wow, what a bias one sided thread, must be damage control in full effect here.
Yes, you can get the same feeling again, just have to find a game that doesn't forget the roots of the genre for which you were a fan of and try to change it so much to the extent of being a big steaming pile of dung that doesn't even come 1/8 as close to the one you used to love, raise your standards, expect more and understand that the majority desire mediocrity "unfortunately", just don't support or accept it as it will only get worse, support quality and what you like, don't accept what's popular or just "ok" to you.
It's a trick don't accept it and yes you can. Also.....battlegrounds ruined alot of what WoW originally was and if anyone denies that then meh, whatever, cause me and you are not of the same thread of gamer. World of Warcraft should have been an open world territory control MMO, but it failed to live up to that bar, sure it's popular, but dig a little deeper and you will find there are alot that agree it failed and alot that want to get out but can't.
Unfortunately, gamers with bad taste far outnumber those with good these days by what I call micro gamers and industry shills that will push quick fix junk that makes them tons of $, guess I can't blame them, but I sure blame the consumer.
Rant away if you must, but the truth is, there are enough people playing these games to keep them going, so just because you don't like them or don't play them, doesn't mean someone else doesn't. Millions of people play WoW. Millions of people hate WoW. Enough said.
Either find something you like and play it or don't. That old game you think was so awesome isn't around anymore because everyone stopped playing it. If it's still around... why aren't you playing it? Enough said.
I'm sorry but MMO's have not progressed. Nearly every MMO developer in the last 5-7 years has tried to copy WOW. Only GW2 tried something different, but at the end of the day, it still the same gameplay. Go kill , fetch, escort , but without having to run to an npc to get a quest. Even ESO has a chance to take MMOs in a whole new direction. I was like "OMG Skyrims single player combat, quests, and gameplay but in a persistent online universe." Yeah right haha SWTOR... another WOW clone in a Star Wars skin.
The next batch of MMOs coming out are trying to clone GW2. I think developers gave up on trying to make another WOW. To many failed attempts, even they aren't that dumb. Skyforge looks like a cheaper less polished version of GW2 cause that is exactly what it is. Everquest Next trying to combine GW2 gameplay with the sandbox building elements of Minecraft. There is no innovation, it is all copy and paste, mix and match.
ESO was the game that was supposed to carry the torch. I bet you if Todd Howard took on that project we would all be having that feeling once again.
No, you wont get this feeling again. Its one time only.
You lose the ability to get the feeling due to multiple factors: Age, genre getting stale, memories of the "first" and your nearby community not following after you.
You may find games which will bring you close to the feeling which you got the first time, but it will never be quite the same and will usually wear off faster than you can realize it.
I believe that this, the first answer right here in the thread, describes it perfectly.
I started with UO in '98 or so, and when i quit in 2000/2001, i was left looking for a new game for years. Played some more, some less, but only when i started playing Guild Wars (which i didn't get into in '04/'05 - lacking people to play it with) in around '09/'10 and played it until i had really seen every damn pixel there was to see in 2011 or '12 i really got back into MMOs. It wasn't the same feeling, even discounting for the obvious differences between the games, but it was really nice.
One or two years later i enjoyed the hell out of Vindictus, with lots of shor time games before and after.
Basically, a lot depends on coincidence. The right game at the right time, with the right people makes all the difference in the world. One factor off, and any game will be stale. Good things there's other games then MMOs out there.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
No it's not silly. That's like saying, shoplifting and murder are both crimes , so they should both get life in prison. TVs and MMOs have a different progression curve. TVs used tube technology for 50 years before moving to flat screen lcd plasma. My 54 inch lcd wasn't my first TV , I had 2 other TV's before. A sony 27 inch and a 32 inch JVC, and I never had that amazing feeling when purchasing them like I did with a flat big screen. It was just that Ok my tv just died , go buy another one , same size, maybe abit bigger, same technology. A week later you forget you have a new TV.
What I'm saying is the jump from 480p tube to 1080p lcd was huge. No MMO has made that big a jump. sure graphics have gotten better but that has been happening since the beginning, for PC and Consoles. Going from 480 resolution for 50 years to 1080p is insane. Don't even compare. That is silly.
You may get that feeling again when we experience gaming in a totally different way. Not stuck behind a monitor/tv with a keyboard, mouse/controller in your hand.
If we ever see tech close to the matrix, possibly.
That seems to be a common theme here for many players.
I started with Ultima Online and moved to EQ because of the PvP. Then I went from EQ to WoW because I was tired out from the effort required to advance at the time and WoW was a easy game by comparison. Then you have games original WoW vs Current WoW. I also tried a few other games like SWG, Vanguard SoH, LOTRO, Age of Conan, SWG, KOTOR, ESO and I believe that's about where I stopped.
This isn't just a matter of computer games. Ever since tablets started coming out things have been made easier and as plain as possible for the user. Having worked in the IT industry I can say the user experience is not very complicated anymore compared to what it once was. On the back end I'm sure it's complicated to create the software, but on the front end everything has been more and more streamlined so the user doesn't have to think at all in most cases.
That is not to say life in general hasn't become more complicated. There are now a lot more things to worry now then in the past. It's just that if you are looking for a deeper experience then you will not find it on the user end of technology these days. It's all about hitting the largest audience they can and most people don't want to be bothered with learning things computer related past having to click a button once in a while.
Other then the difficulty level I would say games in the MMO genre especially seem to be very lacking in story. This wasn't a huge problem with early MMOs because people were all together in the same place. Now everyone is separated by instances and you get some story that is ok, but isn't presented very well in most cases IMO.
One thing I've learned is the masses don't have an excitement for exploration of different lands. That has almost been entirely taken out of the MMO genre at this point in most games. It instead seems to be popular to an extent in single player games.
I'll admit it's rare you will feel the same excitement for something past a certain point in your life. Part of it was being part of the genre when it was just coming into existence. Now that everything is so locked down there is less excitement as it's very difficult to find accomplish something that wasn't intended by the developer through bugs or the fact that they just didn't think of it at the time. If you are looking for a game where it's possible to think outside the box it's not going to be found in the MMO genre at this point since developers won't make the same mistakes twice.
Creative stagnation and core design philosophy didn't help, if anything even if you lost your memory and experienced these games from the begining (as they are now) you would quickly feel the same "been there, done that" feeling.
This is allegedly one of the reasons why VR is actually interesting for everyone trying it, because it makes these "boring" experiences feel fresh and interesting again, sure we get news way to do input but the main focus is that we can get new ways to experience games, much like getting a new pair of eyes.
I'm one of those guys that criticizes games for what they could have clearly been and most of the time I end up accusing devs from shortsightedness and that's also a major factor, but once again VR can bring out new ways to feel immersed and new way for devs to express their visions.
I do feel like one of the major reasons for the downfall of MMO's was making this easier by supplying the player with too much information, from map pin-point objective markers to visual indications for even the simplest things; that's where the problem lies.
Back when people started playing wow 'we' didn't get the system in one go, it overached beyond what we could perceive and the lack of information (without going for tutorials, only onword of mouth and common sense) really helped making the world an interesting place...now you just can't have a doubt because tehy force you to know things instead of allowing you to discover and by experience (this was talked about by Wildstar devs in one of their trailers, and it really should be 1# priority for any comming WoW-killer, but because lately we all know how unforgiving players are from their early lvl experiences this will surely be overlooked and dumbed down to the masses, it's a self-repeating cycle
TLDR: Answer: No, but you can build upon it given paradigm change on how devs/corps work/profit by wallet voting or from a new take on games from a virtual reality perspective leading to a more profound (and easily tailored) experience that doesn't end up feeling boring *cross fingers*
PS: I'm still very reticent on the whole movement part of VR and sceptical as any person that never actually tryed the product, specially the later itterations, but I've read on it and watched all the vids to allow me to have some sort of informed oppinion as to what the experience chances in VR should entail, it's all IMO and no stones need to be thrown!
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy books, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular character or group of characters in doing so.
I stopped reading books years ago, they just don't write them like they used to.
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy television programs, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular character or group of characters in doing so.
Most modern TV is crap, reality TV, dramas full of miserable anti-heroes, very little of it is of any worth.
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy movies, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular character or group of characters in doing so.
Jeez, one of the most boring genres of all, really are few new ideas, and most are just re-treads of themes I've been watching for over 40 years, I'm lucky these days if more than 2 or 3 a year are any good, rest are just re-treads
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy comic books, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular character or group of characters in doing so.
Seriously, the best comics were from the 60's and 70's, many today suffer the same issues as TV, the heroes aren't a whole lot more worthy than the vilains, stoppped reading them years ago.
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy broadway plays, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a actor/actress or cast of actors/actresses in doing so.
A genre I've only recently started enjoying, so haven't had a chance to really get tired of them, and while there are some good modern ones, the best tend to be from an earlier era.
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy music concerts, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular singer, instrumentalist, band or orchestra in doing so.
Yeah, right, which is why the most expensive concerts out there today tend to be by bands that were popular back in the 70's and 80's....
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy sports events, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular player or team in doing so.
Stopped watching professional sports about.... 30 years ago, seriously, why are you watching them, and supporting a group of people who could care less about you. Sort of like cheering for GM, Citibank or Google, why would you do it?
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy art exhibits, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular artist or style of artists in doing so.
Art is so varied you can't even compare it to MMO's, sometimes bad analogies are just... bad
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy museums and history, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular time period or innovation changes in a line of history in doing so.
See above
Meanwhile, MMORPGs which are INTERACTIVE AND CAN INCLUDE ALL OF THE ABOVE mind you, just can not seem to hang?
If you really can't see the problem with MMORPG's and especially more modern ones, well, there's no point in further discussion.
Bottom line is the developers.
Yep, you nailed it. There is so much they could have done with the genre, and instead they follow the herd and push out the same repetitive designs many have grown weary of.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy books, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular character or group of characters in doing so.
I stopped reading books years ago, they just don't write them like they used to.
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy television programs, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular character or group of characters in doing so.
Most modern TV is crap, reality TV, dramas full of miserable anti-heroes, very little of it is of any worth.
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy movies, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular character or group of characters in doing so.
Jeez, one of the most boring genres of all, really are few new ideas, and most are just re-treads of themes I've been watching for over 40 years, I'm lucky these days if more than 2 or 3 a year are any good, rest are just re-treads
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy comic books, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular character or group of characters in doing so.
Seriously, the best comics were from the 60's and 70's, many today suffer the same issues as TV, the heroes aren't a whole lot more worthy than the vilains, stoppped reading them years ago.
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy broadway plays, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a actor/actress or cast of actors/actresses in doing so.
A genre I've only recently started enjoying, so haven't had a chance to really get tired of them, and while there are some good modern ones, the best tend to be from an earlier era.
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy music concerts, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular singer, instrumentalist, band or orchestra in doing so.
Yeah, right, which is why the most expensive concerts out there today tend to be by bands that were popular back in the 70's and 80's....
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy sports events, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular player or team in doing so.
Stopped watching professional sports about.... 30 years ago, seriously, why are you watching them, and supporting a group of people who could care less about you. Sort of like cheering for GM, Citibank or Google, why would you do it?
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy art exhibits, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular artist or style of artists in doing so.
Art is so varied you can't even compare it to MMO's, sometimes bad analogies are just... bad
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy museums and history, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular time period or innovation changes in a line of history in doing so.
See above
Meanwhile, MMORPGs which are INTERACTIVE AND CAN INCLUDE ALL OF THE ABOVE mind you, just can not seem to hang?
If you really can't see the problem with MMORPG's and especially more modern ones, well, there's no point in further discussion.
Bottom line is the developers.
Yep, you nailed it. There is so much they could have done with the genre, and instead they follow the herd and push out the same repetitive designs many have grown weary of.
Yeah, just like comic books, et al... it's formulaic for a reason... people like it. Bottom line... it sells.
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy books, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular character or group of characters in doing so.
I stopped reading books years ago, they just don't write them like they used to.
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy television programs, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular character or group of characters in doing so.
Most modern TV is crap, reality TV, dramas full of miserable anti-heroes, very little of it is of any worth.
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy movies, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular character or group of characters in doing so.
Jeez, one of the most boring genres of all, really are few new ideas, and most are just re-treads of themes I've been watching for over 40 years, I'm lucky these days if more than 2 or 3 a year are any good, rest are just re-treads
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy comic books, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular character or group of characters in doing so.
Seriously, the best comics were from the 60's and 70's, many today suffer the same issues as TV, the heroes aren't a whole lot more worthy than the vilains, stoppped reading them years ago.
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy broadway plays, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a actor/actress or cast of actors/actresses in doing so.
A genre I've only recently started enjoying, so haven't had a chance to really get tired of them, and while there are some good modern ones, the best tend to be from an earlier era.
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy music concerts, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular singer, instrumentalist, band or orchestra in doing so.
Yeah, right, which is why the most expensive concerts out there today tend to be by bands that were popular back in the 70's and 80's....
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy sports events, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular player or team in doing so.
Stopped watching professional sports about.... 30 years ago, seriously, why are you watching them, and supporting a group of people who could care less about you. Sort of like cheering for GM, Citibank or Google, why would you do it?
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy art exhibits, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular artist or style of artists in doing so.
Art is so varied you can't even compare it to MMO's, sometimes bad analogies are just... bad
Again these nay-sayers fail to acknowledge that people that enjoy museums and history, enjoy one after another, after another, after another, even following a particular time period or innovation changes in a line of history in doing so.
See above
Meanwhile, MMORPGs which are INTERACTIVE AND CAN INCLUDE ALL OF THE ABOVE mind you, just can not seem to hang?
If you really can't see the problem with MMORPG's and especially more modern ones, well, there's no point in further discussion.
Bottom line is the developers.
Yep, you nailed it. There is so much they could have done with the genre, and instead they follow the herd and push out the same repetitive designs many have grown weary of.
Applause. Common sense on a forum, you sir are a rare breed of forum-goer.
PS: On topic: You never get that same feeling again, you can get something similar once every 5-10 years when someone does something revolutionary, but it's never quite the same. Your mind prevents it, as the world loses it's "awe" factor as you get older and understand how everything works, life loses that wonder in time. Be glad you don't live forever.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
I remember when I was like 12 years old and my dad and I went to buy a 27 inch TV for the family living room. Waking up early on a Saturday morning, watching all my favorite cartoons on that 27 inch color TV, was so amazing. Now fast forward to about 5 years ago. I buy myself a 54 inch flat screen with Surround sound, DVD player, the whole nine yards. Watching the Lord of the Rings trilogy in hi fi sound on a bigass LCD, yeah uh .. sorry what was that about a 27 inch and cartoons, couldn't hear you with the 7.1 surround on.
Tony "DMKano" Robbins plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Unfortunately MMO's haven't progressed nearly as much audio/video technology has in the last ten years.
Some things weren't done ten years ago because hardware wasn't ready for it, but are done today because hardware has progressed. Some things weren't done ten years ago because, even though the necessary hardware was available, the programmer cleverness required wasn't. Those things typically still aren't done today. Programmer cleverness does not scale with Moore's Law.
Just wish there was a game out there that I could get hyped up for. I guess pre-warcraft I would play the game as I sought fit. Over the years and becoming MT of a rather large, successful guild, I've developed a sense that I need to research fights, builds, gear, and all the other crap that comes with it. That's why before I start a game, I research stuff like builds and rotations. I think I just need to break that habit. Just jump in and go.
Been dubbing with Guild Wars 2 a little. I have played to 80 before, but got frustrated in the dungeon runs. Not really a fan of using a website to find groups. That and once in the dungeon, a lot of people have a tendency to skip mobs which typically ends up with the group becoming separated.
Perhaps I'm tired of dealing with a lot of the online community too. Seems like the past ten or fifteen years, people have become bigger and bigger douchebags. Trolling seems so much worse than it was years ago. Not trying to sound butthurt, but if I could game for 5m without someone being an ass, I'd be thrilled. Perhaps I'll poke around with SPRPGs. I played Hellgate London awhile back and had a lot of fun with it. I know it tanked, but I think there was some company or person that kept it going.
Again, good read. Glad to see I'm not the only one spinning their tires.
________________________ Two atoms walk out of a bar. The first exclaims, "Damn, I forgot my electrons." The other replies, "You sure?". The first explains, "Yea, I'm positive."
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http://www.purifymind.com/EmptyCup.htm
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Probably an optimist too. They crash harder when things don't go the way they expect.
This is the way I see it, the games have changed and my preferences really haven't. OK, that's my problem but doesn't mean I'm going to adapt to liking the way they are delivered today, I don't have to, especially since I do have one title that suits my needs.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I remember when I was like 12 years old and my dad and I went to buy a 27 inch TV for the family living room. Waking up early on a Saturday morning, watching all my favorite cartoons on that 27 inch color TV, was so amazing. Now fast forward to about 5 years ago. I buy myself a 54 inch flat screen with Surround sound, DVD player, the whole nine yards. Watching the Lord of the Rings trilogy in hi fi sound on a bigass LCD, yeah uh .. sorry what was that about a 27 inch and cartoons, couldn't hear you with the 7.1 surround on.
Tony "DMKano" Robbins plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Unfortunately MMO's haven't progressed nearly as much audio/video technology has in the last ten years.
Wow, what a bias one sided thread, must be damage control in full effect here.
Yes, you can get the same feeling again, just have to find a game that doesn't forget the roots of the genre for which you were a fan of and try to change it so much to the extent of being a big steaming pile of dung that doesn't even come 1/8 as close to the one you used to love, raise your standards, expect more and understand that the majority desire mediocrity "unfortunately", just don't support or accept it as it will only get worse, support quality and what you like, don't accept what's popular or just "ok" to you.
It's a trick don't accept it and yes you can. Also.....battlegrounds ruined alot of what WoW originally was and if anyone denies that then meh, whatever, cause me and you are not of the same thread of gamer. World of Warcraft should have been an open world territory control MMO, but it failed to live up to that bar, sure it's popular, but dig a little deeper and you will find there are alot that agree it failed and alot that want to get out but can't.
Unfortunately, gamers with bad taste far outnumber those with good these days by what I call micro gamers and industry shills that will push quick fix junk that makes them tons of $, guess I can't blame them, but I sure blame the consumer.
Rant away if you must, but the truth is, there are enough people playing these games to keep them going, so just because you don't like them or don't play them, doesn't mean someone else doesn't. Millions of people play WoW. Millions of people hate WoW. Enough said.
Either find something you like and play it or don't. That old game you think was so awesome isn't around anymore because everyone stopped playing it. If it's still around... why aren't you playing it? Enough said.
I had fun once, it was terrible.
I'm sorry but MMO's have not progressed. Nearly every MMO developer in the last 5-7 years has tried to copy WOW. Only GW2 tried something different, but at the end of the day, it still the same gameplay. Go kill , fetch, escort , but without having to run to an npc to get a quest. Even ESO has a chance to take MMOs in a whole new direction. I was like "OMG Skyrims single player combat, quests, and gameplay but in a persistent online universe." Yeah right haha SWTOR... another WOW clone in a Star Wars skin.
The next batch of MMOs coming out are trying to clone GW2. I think developers gave up on trying to make another WOW. To many failed attempts, even they aren't that dumb. Skyforge looks like a cheaper less polished version of GW2 cause that is exactly what it is. Everquest Next trying to combine GW2 gameplay with the sandbox building elements of Minecraft. There is no innovation, it is all copy and paste, mix and match.
ESO was the game that was supposed to carry the torch. I bet you if Todd Howard took on that project we would all be having that feeling once again.
I believe that this, the first answer right here in the thread, describes it perfectly.
I started with UO in '98 or so, and when i quit in 2000/2001, i was left looking for a new game for years. Played some more, some less, but only when i started playing Guild Wars (which i didn't get into in '04/'05 - lacking people to play it with) in around '09/'10 and played it until i had really seen every damn pixel there was to see in 2011 or '12 i really got back into MMOs. It wasn't the same feeling, even discounting for the obvious differences between the games, but it was really nice.
One or two years later i enjoyed the hell out of Vindictus, with lots of shor time games before and after.
Basically, a lot depends on coincidence. The right game at the right time, with the right people makes all the difference in the world. One factor off, and any game will be stale. Good things there's other games then MMOs out there.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
No it's not silly. That's like saying, shoplifting and murder are both crimes , so they should both get life in prison. TVs and MMOs have a different progression curve. TVs used tube technology for 50 years before moving to flat screen lcd plasma. My 54 inch lcd wasn't my first TV , I had 2 other TV's before. A sony 27 inch and a 32 inch JVC, and I never had that amazing feeling when purchasing them like I did with a flat big screen. It was just that Ok my tv just died , go buy another one , same size, maybe abit bigger, same technology. A week later you forget you have a new TV.
What I'm saying is the jump from 480p tube to 1080p lcd was huge. No MMO has made that big a jump. sure graphics have gotten better but that has been happening since the beginning, for PC and Consoles. Going from 480 resolution for 50 years to 1080p is insane. Don't even compare. That is silly.
You may get that feeling again when we experience gaming in a totally different way. Not stuck behind a monitor/tv with a keyboard, mouse/controller in your hand.
If we ever see tech close to the matrix, possibly.
Notice the OP says things are much easier.
That seems to be a common theme here for many players.
I started with Ultima Online and moved to EQ because of the PvP. Then I went from EQ to WoW because I was tired out from the effort required to advance at the time and WoW was a easy game by comparison. Then you have games original WoW vs Current WoW. I also tried a few other games like SWG, Vanguard SoH, LOTRO, Age of Conan, SWG, KOTOR, ESO and I believe that's about where I stopped.
This isn't just a matter of computer games. Ever since tablets started coming out things have been made easier and as plain as possible for the user. Having worked in the IT industry I can say the user experience is not very complicated anymore compared to what it once was. On the back end I'm sure it's complicated to create the software, but on the front end everything has been more and more streamlined so the user doesn't have to think at all in most cases.
That is not to say life in general hasn't become more complicated. There are now a lot more things to worry now then in the past. It's just that if you are looking for a deeper experience then you will not find it on the user end of technology these days. It's all about hitting the largest audience they can and most people don't want to be bothered with learning things computer related past having to click a button once in a while.
Other then the difficulty level I would say games in the MMO genre especially seem to be very lacking in story. This wasn't a huge problem with early MMOs because people were all together in the same place. Now everyone is separated by instances and you get some story that is ok, but isn't presented very well in most cases IMO.
One thing I've learned is the masses don't have an excitement for exploration of different lands. That has almost been entirely taken out of the MMO genre at this point in most games. It instead seems to be popular to an extent in single player games.
I'll admit it's rare you will feel the same excitement for something past a certain point in your life. Part of it was being part of the genre when it was just coming into existence. Now that everything is so locked down there is less excitement as it's very difficult to find accomplish something that wasn't intended by the developer through bugs or the fact that they just didn't think of it at the time. If you are looking for a game where it's possible to think outside the box it's not going to be found in the MMO genre at this point since developers won't make the same mistakes twice.
Once in a while, we come across a post so deep, so deep, that it makes this community worthwhile hanging around with...
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Creative stagnation and core design philosophy didn't help, if anything even if you lost your memory and experienced these games from the begining (as they are now) you would quickly feel the same "been there, done that" feeling.
This is allegedly one of the reasons why VR is actually interesting for everyone trying it, because it makes these "boring" experiences feel fresh and interesting again, sure we get news way to do input but the main focus is that we can get new ways to experience games, much like getting a new pair of eyes.
I'm one of those guys that criticizes games for what they could have clearly been and most of the time I end up accusing devs from shortsightedness and that's also a major factor, but once again VR can bring out new ways to feel immersed and new way for devs to express their visions.
I do feel like one of the major reasons for the downfall of MMO's was making this easier by supplying the player with too much information, from map pin-point objective markers to visual indications for even the simplest things; that's where the problem lies.
Back when people started playing wow 'we' didn't get the system in one go, it overached beyond what we could perceive and the lack of information (without going for tutorials, only onword of mouth and common sense) really helped making the world an interesting place...now you just can't have a doubt because tehy force you to know things instead of allowing you to discover and by experience (this was talked about by Wildstar devs in one of their trailers, and it really should be 1# priority for any comming WoW-killer, but because lately we all know how unforgiving players are from their early lvl experiences this will surely be overlooked and dumbed down to the masses, it's a self-repeating cycle
TLDR: Answer: No, but you can build upon it given paradigm change on how devs/corps work/profit by wallet voting or from a new take on games from a virtual reality perspective leading to a more profound (and easily tailored) experience that doesn't end up feeling boring *cross fingers*
PS: I'm still very reticent on the whole movement part of VR and sceptical as any person that never actually tryed the product, specially the later itterations, but I've read on it and watched all the vids to allow me to have some sort of informed oppinion as to what the experience chances in VR should entail, it's all IMO and no stones need to be thrown!
Yep, you nailed it. There is so much they could have done with the genre, and instead they follow the herd and push out the same repetitive designs many have grown weary of.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yeah, just like comic books, et al... it's formulaic for a reason... people like it. Bottom line... it sells.
Applause. Common sense on a forum, you sir are a rare breed of forum-goer.
PS: On topic: You never get that same feeling again, you can get something similar once every 5-10 years when someone does something revolutionary, but it's never quite the same. Your mind prevents it, as the world loses it's "awe" factor as you get older and understand how everything works, life loses that wonder in time. Be glad you don't live forever.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
Some things weren't done ten years ago because hardware wasn't ready for it, but are done today because hardware has progressed. Some things weren't done ten years ago because, even though the necessary hardware was available, the programmer cleverness required wasn't. Those things typically still aren't done today. Programmer cleverness does not scale with Moore's Law.
Good read here. Thanks all.
Just wish there was a game out there that I could get hyped up for. I guess pre-warcraft I would play the game as I sought fit. Over the years and becoming MT of a rather large, successful guild, I've developed a sense that I need to research fights, builds, gear, and all the other crap that comes with it. That's why before I start a game, I research stuff like builds and rotations. I think I just need to break that habit. Just jump in and go.
Been dubbing with Guild Wars 2 a little. I have played to 80 before, but got frustrated in the dungeon runs. Not really a fan of using a website to find groups. That and once in the dungeon, a lot of people have a tendency to skip mobs which typically ends up with the group becoming separated.
Perhaps I'm tired of dealing with a lot of the online community too. Seems like the past ten or fifteen years, people have become bigger and bigger douchebags. Trolling seems so much worse than it was years ago. Not trying to sound butthurt, but if I could game for 5m without someone being an ass, I'd be thrilled. Perhaps I'll poke around with SPRPGs. I played Hellgate London awhile back and had a lot of fun with it. I know it tanked, but I think there was some company or person that kept it going.
Again, good read. Glad to see I'm not the only one spinning their tires.
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