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What ever happend to camping for xp?
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There is quite a bit of truth in this.
But it isn't like we actually wish to be doing the same thing over and over. (And Im sure thats why it was changed in the first place.)
But we will default to it, if it is available, for convenience. And from that we get the time to think abstractly. when alone, or to socialize, when in a group.
If you ask people if they want repetitiveness or new stuff all the time, we have seen what the answer is. People will ask for new stuff. But in reality new new new new is becomes just as stale with much more effort required.
When you kick up the pace of the game and saturate it with shinies, It wont take long for the players to adjust and still get bored. But since so much input is required, little oportunity is left for consideration or socializing...
And with the new games being boring, slower gameplay will be dreadfully dull by comparison. Meaning we might only ever go back to slower and, dare I say, better styles of gameplay if we closed ourselves off from comparing it to "modern" games.
Can still do it but it is the most ass backwards, asinine concept to ever been placed in MMO's. Thank God they removed this as the sole source of progression.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
And Rift and AA are better? I played EQ for over 10 years and its EMU version for another 4 and SWG since its release until its reconditioning. I can not stomach games of late. Max level in 2 weeks, enough story and content to get you a few days of hand holding easy pixels. Or in AAs case, what, 6 hours? I'm not going to go the 'nostalgia' route as there were irritating aspects to EQ but each time I venture into a new game I do not get that same addiction or need to log in after 3 months. So, I take a couple years off completely then come back. Now MOBAs are being called MMORPGs. Solo to max level with gear granted in the process. No necessary crafting, no necessary interaction, a quick gold seller purchase (if I even considered giving real money for pixels) than I could have even better gear just so I can get into a PVP or RvR arena made to look like a zone with trees or swamps, throw in a keep or castle wall to siege against. And then hope this satiates me until the next small little content add-on that I'll need to buy in a cash shop.
When people can avoid grouping, avoid crafting anything, get what you need from a cash shop, avoid complicated quests, aren't they 'avoiding' really playing the game as well? Maybe you are right and MMORPGs have shifted to something that resembles an MMORPG but plays like a MOBA but if so I guess I will just keep my cash in the bank until something does come out that reviews close to what I am looking for. I say reviews because I'm not digging in to promises. I am patient so I can wait and if it doesn't happen there are alot of SP games I can play to get my RPG fix.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
Except you're not doing the "exact same" thing in most of those quests. The activity variety to WOW's quests is significant, and the mobs themselves each do some one unique thing which forces a slightly different response in order to kill them optimally. It's almost all functionally different. Whereas killing the same mob is clearly more repetitious.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
No you were trying to discredit what I and others like because "50 million other people don't...so yeah" but failed miserably
It's all a matter of perception.
People say it was a grind back then, mostly because it was the only (best) way to level. But questing is as much of a grind now if you don't particularly like leveling through it, because it has ended up as the best way to level.
For people who don't really like WoWesque questing, it ends up as pretty much the same: You get a wall of text from an NPC, you run to a marker on your map, and you do whatever and run back to another marker. Rinse and repeat ad nauseam. What makes it feel the same every time (regardless of if you are'nt fighting the same mob, or picking the same flowers) is that you are usually alone doing so and that the encounters are in a "controlled environment" (so everyone has the same experience for this specific encounter). This type of grinding (to me) is way better suited for solo XP.
Camping can also be varied, even if you hunt the same type of mobs at the same place. Depending on how they handle the spawns, if there are patrols, chances for mobs to call for help, roaming higher level mobs that may pass by and drop on your group,etc. And the most important aspect for "diversty", your group members! For some, all this diversity is way more important than the fact that in one quest, the mobs you hunted were dogs that bleeded you and in another they were mages that stunned you or whatever..
The question I have been asking for a while is : Why can't we "really" have both in the same game?
Why can't they bring (lots of) persistant camps that can't be soloed in the open worlds?
Why don't they make a distinction between mobs that are quest related and other mobs, to have the later give more XP to make camping as viable as quest grinding?
Why don't they bring back group bonuses, camping bonuses (ala DAoC, where you got a bonus that slowly degraded the more you killed mobs at that place,etc.), and bonuses for dropping "purple" mobs in groups?
Why can't they add all this, while keeping the option for quest grinding? Regardless of where you stand in that debate, we seem to all agree that diversity is better than anything.. so why not add more ways of leveling than single player quests?
Also, while we are at it, why, in PvP games, can't they give players the opportunity to level at the same pace as the rest?
Devs are saying they want all types of players to play their games, yet, they have been aiming toward the single player experience more and more. Now, it's all about long "single player" story lines (in the narrative, you are always "the hero", never "a group of heroes".. this shows a lot how they think their games now..). All content (aside from instances) has to be "soloable", etc.. All classes have to be able to pretty much do everything on their own, etc. Why not make some classes good at soloing and others, weaker at solo, but more efficient when grouped with complementary classes?
I'm probably asking for too much, but one has the right to dream.. right!?
Watching TV while awaiting another spawn.
Those were the days?
Hey! Not everyone has ADD, you know?
If was really hoping the entire game would have been like that. That open world was made for it.
I played a hunter in wow so not sure if it was different for other classes but it was basically send pet on one mob while kiting another mob or 2 with dazed shot, traps and serpent sting. Hell most of the mobs died before they reached me. The different response would come when I would toss out a pet heal cause he might be dipping a little low.
In eq we might be killing the same type of mob over and over but you never noticed it because you were having fun talking to everyone else in the group and joking around (or at least that's how it was for me, others mileage may vary)
I'm not a big fan of straight up camping mobs for XP.
I did that far too much in FFXI and SWG back in the day...
Sitting in the same spot fighting for spawns killing the same mob over and over? Meh. I'll pass.
What I really miss are the MASSIVE dungeon crawls of old.
Gathering a group of friends and delving deep into a 3-4+ hour dungeon crawl - now that is a good time!
All the socialization, none of the tedium.
Unfortunately, dungeons in MMOs have turned into loot efficiency grinding machines, so it's increasingly rare to find one any longer than 30 minutes.
With LFG systems you also don't know the people you are playing with, a lot of them are dicks, so you wouldn't want to spend more than 20-30 minutes putting up with them anyway.
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
The 3-4 hour dungeon crawls turned into "you can only do that raiding" but the 3-4 hours was only because of wipes, not because the instance was any larger or took longer to complete.
Even raids now are barely 30 minutes to an hour with a good group.
Dungeons/raids are for pre-made groups - for friends and guilds, remove all LFG systems. However, give solo and PUG players an opportunity to advance outside of dungeons/raids.
Shouldn't always have to be solo -> dungeon -> raid loot progression.
MMOs should, IMO, have a solo level 1-50 and then tier 1-3 loot progression,
and a group only level 1-50 and then tier 1-3 loot progression.
FACT: Social players will play with each other even if it is JUST as efficient to play solo.
That's what makes me most excited for Black Desert.
I used to play FFXI in the old days, and it was all about camping to level up, well at least after lvl 10-12.
To max out job + subjob, you had to play a lot to make it in a couple of months. And God forbid you chose a job that wasn't a popular one to group with... DRG anyone? /shrug.
FFXI was a great game in sooo many ways. The mob camping was NOT what made it great, imo.
I'm never ever going to play another game with that kind of progression system. So if that makes me a kid who wants "Instant gratification", then I can live with that.
That's good to hear. I have been thinking about trying it again since the update.
Last time i played L2 (1-2 years ago) i was at 2nd class change quest in an hour or so - through quests
BadSpock gets it!
Also, regarding dungeons, I think they should also bring back some open world ones. With tougher mobs the deeper you go, (for which a group is required). These were the best places for players to meet new people and form groups. Many bonds have been created like this, and that's something that has been missing since the introduction of instances and LFG tools.
If people are able to get there, but hit a wall and they can't go further, they will naturaly group up... and more often than not, end up with more people on their friend list at the end of the night.
You was still in the tutorial and should have kept playing.
Yeah, when they added the Kamael race, they put in a quest line that shot players to level 20 or so inside of a half hour.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Yep, and although a lot easier, my wife and I and a couple friends still are playing XI and playing it the old way. We prefer it, and we re having a blast.
Sure you can. I can also grind (which I do) in contemporary games. Guess which is the better way to level and stay competitive or "viable"? Quests.
I speak from experience when I say that "experience" in these games is catered toward quests.
If one isn't concerned about being of significant level to join your guild mates then sure, it is a non-issue.
Another issue is that some of these games make it so that gear is obtained by quests. I found it interesting when last night, in Final Fantasy 14, I made a character that would do as few quests as possible.
When it came time for me to upgrade I saw that I "could" buy from npc vendors but I had to level higher in order to use this gear. Whereas, on another character (one that is doing quests) I was able to get decent gear upgrades by the same level.
One thing I did notice is that the xp in FF14 is decent while grinding when compared to Aion or Lord of the Rings online where quests still rule the day.
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Yeah I liked that in the public dungeons in UO back in the day. The further deep you went, the more difficult the dungeon became.
I still think instanced dungeons have a place in MMOs, just like I think public dungeons / spaces do - it's just about how you provide incentive.
Let's face it - players (many/most) are all about the rewards, are all about efficiency, and maximizing the output of their input.
Short, repeatable, instanced random PUG LFG dungeons became "the norm" because the time-to-reward ratio was the highest.
Even out the ratio between solo play, small group play, large group play, open world, instanced, pve, pvp etc. etc. and you know what will happen? People will do the content they ACTUALLY WANT TO DO!
Not the content they feel like they have to do in order to be efficient, stave off boredom, and min/max.
Depends what mmo you're playing. There's a large number of mmos where grinding on mobs > quests simply due to how much running around quests force you to do.
For instance WoD WoW, 90-100 is served best by grinding mobs and not questing speed wise unless you have a badass pre-made group that has little to no downtime then dungeon runs would be best, but for solo or maybe only have 2-3 people, grinding mobs is the best exp/hr. Hell 1-80 grinding mobs > questing, though it is beaten out by just running dungeons. 80-90 things get a little murky. Dungeon runs aren't as great for exp as 1-80 and queue times get longer, so might be best to grind on mobs at this level range.
Aura Kingdoms, for a large portion of the later levels, you have no choice but to do repetitive dungeon grinding or mob grinding in whatever the highest level zone you can reach is.
Dream of Mirror Online was recently re-liscensed by subagames, that game is 95% how the oldschool games were. Mostly a mob grinder, with a few sidequests/class quests.
Eden Eternal, again didn't even have enough quests to reach max level, you either grinded on mobs or repetitive dungeon runs.
I can keep the list going with populated current mmorpgs that you can do this in and get equal to the best if not the best exp/hr.
You people cried about:
-Camping
-Spawn Times
-Open Dungeons
-Losing EXP and Items upon death
-PVP
-Travel / Fast Travel
-No map / route shown for current quest
So you guys get everything you want. The MMO genre suffered. Now you guys don't even know what an MMO is. Now we have to wait till its all fixed up again which is slowly happening, but now we have to contend with F2P until it wears off and either disappears or forms into something else which is more tolerable.
We should start a circle jerk forum for this crap.