And it's funny how someone could say "They will sell ships after Gold", but can't accept others people say "The won't sell ships after Gold".
Why is it funny for someone to not believe the exact opposite of what they believe?
For now, what we know is they said they won't sell ships for money, just standard gear, skins, character slots and things like that. What happen when the time comes nobody knows exactly.
No, what we know is that Ben mentioned that they would sell ships post launch if the community wants it.
Some people think that a company that has a successful multi-million dollar income scheme, wouldn't abandon it on a single day. It's makes sense for them to continue it, doesn't it?
hehe, about the first, is about the certainty that they have :-)
And about the second, I think they won't sell ships after launch because in that moment they don't have the "protection" of "the pledge is a donation for make the game possible". The game then is already done, so they would have worst press than now for the PTW and blahblahblah.
But, in the end, we'll know for sure when the time comes. I don't think they will ruin this as Trion did with Archeage, but I don't blind myself, I just hope for the best, but seeing all the posibilities.
If I'm a business man sitting in a office looking at sales numbers for ships in SC during development it would be pretty hard to convince me that the community doesn't want ships for sale in the game store after launch at this point. There will be a standard starter ship that comes with buying the game obviously but I would be very surprised if there wasn't options to upgrade to additional ships by sending more money. Given how easily the community accepted ship sales it would be silly to abandoned such a accepted practice post launch.
It's like those gambling boxes. People complain about them to no end but at the end of the day they make way more money than the people who leave would have spent so the companies come out ahead on them. All the bad press in the world is meaningless if most people ignore it and buy the items anyways.
That's exactly the point. Although this is a business, is also the dream of Chris Roberts: The Best Space Sim Ever, that now it's the Best First Person Universe. He's not exactly a business man (Otherwise, they would haven't spend so much and instead get more profit). That is another point that made me have hope for this project.
And it's funny how someone could say "They will sell ships after Gold", but can't accept others people say "The won't sell ships after Gold".
Why is it funny for someone to not believe the exact opposite of what they believe?
For now, what we know is they said they won't sell ships for money, just standard gear, skins, character slots and things like that. What happen when the time comes nobody knows exactly.
No, what we know is that Ben mentioned that they would sell ships post launch if the community wants it.
Some people think that a company that has a successful multi-million dollar income scheme, wouldn't abandon it on a single day. It's makes sense for them to continue it, doesn't it?
hehe, about the first, is about the certainty that they have :-)
And about the second, I think they won't sell ships after launch because in that moment they don't have the "protection" of "the pledge is a donation for make the game possible". The game then is already done, so they would have worst press than now for the PTW and blahblahblah.
But, in the end, we'll know for sure when the time comes. I don't think they will ruin this as Trion did with Archeage, but I don't blind myself, I just hope for the best, but seeing all the posibilities.
If I'm a business man sitting in a office looking at sales numbers for ships in SC during development it would be pretty hard to convince me that the community doesn't want ships for sale in the game store after launch at this point. There will be a standard starter ship that comes with buying the game obviously but I would be very surprised if there wasn't options to upgrade to additional ships by sending more money. Given how easily the community accepted ship sales it would be silly to abandoned such a accepted practice post launch.
It's like those gambling boxes. People complain about them to no end but at the end of the day they make way more money than the people who leave would have spent so the companies come out ahead on them. All the bad press in the world is meaningless if most people ignore it and buy the items anyways.
That's exactly the point. Although this is a business, is also the dream of Chris Roberts: The Best Space Sim Ever, that now it's the Best First Person Universe. He's not exactly a business man (Otherwise, they would haven't spend so much and instead get more profit). That is another point that made me have hope for this project.
I have been on the inside as little companies turn into mid size companies a couple times and the founders dreams rarely survive the realities of business. Do you think he has only hired developers with that money? He has had to hire managers to manage the developers and directors to manage the managers and HR people to pay the developers and finance people to pay all the bills. All these peoples voices now become part of the dream for SC and can not be discounted. Whatever Chris Roberts original vision and motivation for this project was it has grown beyond him at this point.
"NO Pay2Win - You should never be able to buy anything with real money that you can't buy in with in game credits. Once fully live SC in-game items will only be purchasable with in-game credits. There will even be some items you can ONLY earn by playing / flying missions. All you will be able to spend money on that is gameplay related would be buying some in-game credits as you don't want or don't have enough time to earn the credits you need for your contemplated purchase. We'll cap purchase of in-game credits to avoid someone unbalancing the game / economy."
Community :
"I do not want them to sell any ships after release. ---> 68.42%" (one of many such polls, all with the same result)
" .....Here's his vision, as he explains it to me: When the persistent universe is up and running, ships will be manufactured from shipyards, then sold and traded to other players in universe. Some of these ships will be highly coveted because they are rare, or expensive, or take a lot of time and effort to produce, such as a cruiser. There will be players who simply have to have that cruiser right now, but there won't be one coming out of the shipyard for, let's say, a month. Those players may want to do a deal with a player who owns that cruiser - for the right price. "But that would be cool," Roberts says. "That's what happens in the real world.
"The whole goal is to be able to have a lot of trading and e-commerce inside the game. We have a dynamic economy. If you have tools in there for the players to buy, sell, create jobs, work for other people and build their own empires, it's better for you. Otherwise you always have to provide the content. But if the players are doing half of this stuff for you you can focus on things that matter.
"Eve Online does a pretty good job of having a lot of player generated content drive the drama of the universe. I'd like to have the tools to be able to allow the players to do a lot of that; create missions for each other, take over a part of the galaxy or build up a trading empire, and then we focus on expanding the universe, creating more locations for people to explore or trade, more ships to fly around in. And then occasionally some narrative stories in there. That would be the best balance and that's the model we're going for."
Roberts' vision for all of this is that it occurs inside the game - on in-universe."
So .. based on Chris Roberts words ... does that sound like he plans to throw away all of his design notes and just sell those ships for real money in game ? Because YOU say it MUST BE so ?
"NO Pay2Win - You should never be able to buy anything with real money that you can't buy in with in game credits. Once fully live SC in-game items will only be purchasable with in-game credits. There will even be some items you can ONLY earn by playing / flying missions. All you will be able to spend money on that is gameplay related would be buying some in-game credits as you don't want or don't have enough time to earn the credits you need for your contemplated purchase. We'll cap purchase of in-game credits to avoid someone unbalancing the game / economy."
So .. based on Chris Roberts words ... does that sound like he plans to throw away all of his design notes and just sell those ships for real money in game ? Because YOU say it MUST BE so ?
First of all his definition of Pay to Win is flawed.
Also he doesn't have to change his entire design notes, just one part of it. The one about selling ships post launch.
He's already changed numerous things since the kickstarter pitch, changing one more won't be a surprise.
Finally, it's not just me saying it... people not blinded by fanboism can logically understand that people like money.
Now unless CR is unique in that he doesn't like money, maybe you are right and he's not going to sell ships post launch
We'll both be here (even though aged) and we'll see....and I'm pretty sure one of the excuses will be server costs.
And it's funny how someone could say "They will sell ships after Gold", but can't accept others people say "The won't sell ships after Gold".
Why is it funny for someone to not believe the exact opposite of what they believe?
For now, what we know is they said they won't sell ships for money, just standard gear, skins, character slots and things like that. What happen when the time comes nobody knows exactly.
No, what we know is that Ben mentioned that they would sell ships post launch if the community wants it.
Some people think that a company that has a successful multi-million dollar income scheme, wouldn't abandon it on a single day. It's makes sense for them to continue it, doesn't it?
hehe, about the first, is about the certainty that they have :-)
And about the second, I think they won't sell ships after launch because in that moment they don't have the "protection" of "the pledge is a donation for make the game possible". The game then is already done, so they would have worst press than now for the PTW and blahblahblah.
But, in the end, we'll know for sure when the time comes. I don't think they will ruin this as Trion did with Archeage, but I don't blind myself, I just hope for the best, but seeing all the posibilities.
If I'm a business man sitting in a office looking at sales numbers for ships in SC during development it would be pretty hard to convince me that the community doesn't want ships for sale in the game store after launch at this point. There will be a standard starter ship that comes with buying the game obviously but I would be very surprised if there wasn't options to upgrade to additional ships by sending more money. Given how easily the community accepted ship sales it would be silly to abandoned such a accepted practice post launch.
It's like those gambling boxes. People complain about them to no end but at the end of the day they make way more money than the people who leave would have spent so the companies come out ahead on them. All the bad press in the world is meaningless if most people ignore it and buy the items anyways.
That's exactly the point. Although this is a business, is also the dream of Chris Roberts: The Best Space Sim Ever, that now it's the Best First Person Universe. He's not exactly a business man (Otherwise, they would haven't spend so much and instead get more profit). That is another point that made me have hope for this project.
If Roberts had made this much money on a film, you would have never seen him near a game again. It's not coincidence that he only rediscovered his 'love of gaming' right when his Hollywood film career cratered. And his last film project has been tied up in litigation for something like five years. The production company went bankrupt.
But he is pretty good at selling that schtick.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
And I talk to people that worked with him in the Origin days. Be assured, none are throwing him any money.
I'm surprised any of you could get in the same room with him, considering the size of his head......
Arglebargle ... you know people that worked with Chris Roberts.
Would they describe him as a man driven primarily by the motivation to make money ? (leaving aside the size of his ego)
My personal impression of the man was that he has a vision of something in his head and he wants to see this vision become reality. No matter the cost. No matter how long it takes. And its only HIS vision that matters. Every part has to fit into this vision.
People with a vision are rare. As one Austrian politician said "If you have a vision, you should go and see a doctor". Personally I think that politician was a narrow-minded idiot. E.g. Steve Jobs was a visionary. He ALSO was a PITB to work with, according to many people that met him.
Good luck maintaining servers for 10 years with "vision".
I liked the Steve Jobs analogy though (even though a very bad analogy) considering he was making/selling the most overpriced hardware in the commercial market.
That's exactly the point. Although this is a business, is also the dream of Chris Roberts: The Best Space Sim Ever, that now it's the Best First Person Universe. He's not exactly a business man (Otherwise, they would haven't spend so much and instead get more profit). That is another point that made me have hope for this project.
He ISN'T a bussiness man??? I think EA and Blizzard would murder to get this man hired. Nestle and Comcast could learn from this man. The marketing textbooks will hail this man as a LEGEND! Why? He made the impossible possible. He made you pay cash for some thin air and promises. A hefty amount of cash. If that isn't the wet dream of every business man I don't know what would.
That's exactly the point. Although this is a business, is also the dream of Chris Roberts: The Best Space Sim Ever, that now it's the Best First Person Universe. He's not exactly a business man (Otherwise, they would haven't spend so much and instead get more profit). That is another point that made me have hope for this project.
He ISN'T a bussiness man??? I think EA and Blizzard would murder to get this man hired. Nestle and Comcast could learn from this man. The marketing textbooks will hail this man as a LEGEND! Why? He made the impossible possible. He made you pay cash for some thin air and promises. A hefty amount of cash. If that isn't the wet dream of every business man I don't know what would.
You make it sound like he's a snake oil salesman...
He ISN'T a bussiness man??? I think EA and Blizzard would murder to get this man hired. Nestle and Comcast could learn from this man. The marketing textbooks will hail this man as a LEGEND! Why? He made the impossible possible. He made you pay cash for some thin air and promises. A hefty amount of cash. If that isn't the wet dream of every business man I don't know what would.
You do know that the marketing plan came mostly from Sandi Gardiner, do you ?
This will make her more famous than her semi-successful acting career.
Cindy Armstrong (ex-Chief Financial Officer) was head-hunted away from CIG early in the project by a much bigger company in the gaming business.
Good luck maintaining servers for 10 years with "vision".
Well, that is what a non-trivial amount of those 77 M$ have been ear-marked for according to Chris Roberts interviews.
Seems like he has Google experts on board to try something new with cloud computing w.r.t. the servers (thats very new info .. see last "Ten for the Chairman" video blog). The Google experts responsible for that cooperation are themselves backers of SC ... looks like they came up with an idea.
He ISN'T a bussiness man??? I think EA and Blizzard would murder to get this man hired. Nestle and Comcast could learn from this man. The marketing textbooks will hail this man as a LEGEND! Why? He made the impossible possible. He made you pay cash for some thin air and promises. A hefty amount of cash. If that isn't the wet dream of every business man I don't know what would.
You do know that the marketing plan came mostly from Sandi Gardiner, do you ?
This will make her more famous than her semi-successful acting career.
Cindy Armstrong (ex-Chief Financial Officer) was head-hunted away from CIG early in the project by a much bigger company in the gaming business.
Have fun
It doesn't matter who made up the marketing plan. CR is the face, you believe HIS vision right? You believe he is THE MAN who will bring you the second coming. So HE is the One. I applaud CR for his brilliant mind in marketing. If I told you twenty years ago that one day a man would stand up to sell thin air and promises for $250+ and rake in millions you would call me a fool and spit me in the face. Finally He has come who will shake up marketing!! I think we can expect great things to come in the MMO market, all envisioned and it will all be due to this genius, Chris Roberts, the Harbinger.
Good luck maintaining servers for 10 years with "vision".
Well, that is what a non-trivial amount of those 77 M$ have been ear-marked for according to Chris Roberts interviews.
You really do come up with a different answer to every topic that comes up in these lovely conversations of ours.
So he's already got the funds for 10 years of server maintenance costs put aside even though they still don't know what kind of servers they'll be needing (just for starters).
There's nothing to win, because we're still nearly a year away from there being any actual game.
There's nothing to pay, because you can earn everything online without using cash.
Don't blame CIG if you're addicted to crowdfunding game development projects (like I am). Just stop giving them money. Star Citizen will still be released, and afterwards you can judge it by the standards of an actual game at that time.
I don't think you understand the meaning of 'pay to win'...
Good luck maintaining servers for 10 years with "vision".
Well, that is what a non-trivial amount of those 77 M$ have been ear-marked for according to Chris Roberts interviews.
You really do come up with a different answer to every topic that comes up in these lovely conversations of ours.
--> I said the same thing about money being ear-marked for server cost in THIS thread only a few postings above.
--> And as you do not believe/like one answer, the only way is to give you 10 more answers (preferably with links). You will not like those 10 either ... but MAYBE it lets you rethink if your point of view is REALLY the only valid one.
So he's already got the funds for 10 years of server maintenance costs put aside even though they still don't know what kind of servers they'll be needing (just for starters).
--> Costing of server farms is not that hard. All the information is available on the internet (there are enough providers)
Here I thought to myself that Diablo 3 was a epic failure, boy was I wrong. Star Citizen makes Elite : Dangerous look that much more sweeter to play. I got a refund for backing Star Citizen last year, because these red flags are flying all over the place.
And I talk to people that worked with him in the Origin days. Be assured, none are throwing him any money.
I'm surprised any of you could get in the same room with him, considering the size of his head......
Arglebargle ... you know people that worked with Chris Roberts.
Would they describe him as a man driven primarily by the motivation to make money ? (leaving aside the size of his ego)
My personal impression of the man was that he has a vision of something in his head and he wants to see this vision become reality. No matter the cost. No matter how long it takes. And its only HIS vision that matters. Every part has to fit into this vision.
People with a vision are rare. As one Austrian politician said "If you have a vision, you should go and see a doctor". Personally I think that politician was a narrow-minded idiot. E.g. Steve Jobs was a visionary. He ALSO was a PITB to work with, according to many people that met him.
Have fun
Okay, good retort! I'd grant you that. I do think he wants to make the grandest space game ever. I'm not in the 'he's a crook and gonna run off with money' camp. Just doubt he's going to be able to deliver properly. Now he's not completely incompetent. He's delivered games as a producer before. He's also helmed projects that were poorly managed, wasting money and time in spectacular amounts. I expect the promise of Star Citizen to end up being underdelivered. But hey, it has put space games back on the map big-time, so perhaps it will be worth all you guys' money.
Roberts is a self-deluding PT Barnum filled with vainglorious ideas. It's part of why he can be so convincing.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Comments
That's exactly the point. Although this is a business, is also the dream of Chris Roberts: The Best Space Sim Ever, that now it's the Best First Person Universe. He's not exactly a business man (Otherwise, they would haven't spend so much and instead get more profit). That is another point that made me have hope for this project.
Yeah, please stop lying.
Every time you answer this, you answer in a different way.
Ben has said exactly what I quoted.
I've already linked you the video he mentioned it once before and you saw it. I won't link it for you again.
..Cake..
I have been on the inside as little companies turn into mid size companies a couple times and the founders dreams rarely survive the realities of business. Do you think he has only hired developers with that money? He has had to hire managers to manage the developers and directors to manage the managers and HR people to pay the developers and finance people to pay all the bills. All these peoples voices now become part of the dream for SC and can not be discounted. Whatever Chris Roberts original vision and motivation for this project was it has grown beyond him at this point.
You can link it all you want ... if you deliberately leave out all clarifications that came after it, its quite pointless.
So ... let me then quote Chris Roberts for you - cannot go any higher w.r.t. to who has to call the shots for SC:
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/223797/post-launch-ship-sales-only-concepts
"NO Pay2Win - You should never be able to buy anything with real money that you can't buy in with in game credits. Once fully live SC in-game items will only be purchasable with in-game credits. There will even be some items you can ONLY earn by playing / flying missions. All you will be able to spend money on that is gameplay related would be buying some in-game credits as you don't want or don't have enough time to earn the credits you need for your contemplated purchase. We'll cap purchase of in-game credits to avoid someone unbalancing the game / economy."
Community :"I do not want them to sell any ships after release. ---> 68.42%" (one of many such polls, all with the same result)
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-04-22-chris-roberts-how-incredible-community-transforms-development
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-10-08-inside-star-citizens-grey-market
" .....Here's his vision, as he explains it to me: When the persistent universe is up and running, ships will be manufactured from shipyards, then sold and traded to other players in universe. Some of these ships will be highly coveted because they are rare, or expensive, or take a lot of time and effort to produce, such as a cruiser. There will be players who simply have to have that cruiser right now, but there won't be one coming out of the shipyard for, let's say, a month. Those players may want to do a deal with a player who owns that cruiser - for the right price. "But that would be cool," Roberts says. "That's what happens in the real world.
"The whole goal is to be able to have a lot of trading and e-commerce inside the game. We have a dynamic economy. If you have tools in there for the players to buy, sell, create jobs, work for other people and build their own empires, it's better for you. Otherwise you always have to provide the content. But if the players are doing half of this stuff for you you can focus on things that matter.
"Eve Online does a pretty good job of having a lot of player generated content drive the drama of the universe. I'd like to have the tools to be able to allow the players to do a lot of that; create missions for each other, take over a part of the galaxy or build up a trading empire, and then we focus on expanding the universe, creating more locations for people to explore or trade, more ships to fly around in. And then occasionally some narrative stories in there. That would be the best balance and that's the model we're going for."
Roberts' vision for all of this is that it occurs inside the game - on in-universe."
So .. based on Chris Roberts words ... does that sound like he plans to throw away all of his design notes and just sell those ships for real money in game ? Because YOU say it MUST BE so ?
Have fun
First of all his definition of Pay to Win is flawed.
Also he doesn't have to change his entire design notes, just one part of it. The one about selling ships post launch.
He's already changed numerous things since the kickstarter pitch, changing one more won't be a surprise.
Finally, it's not just me saying it... people not blinded by fanboism can logically understand that people like money.
Now unless CR is unique in that he doesn't like money, maybe you are right and he's not going to sell ships post launch
We'll both be here (even though aged) and we'll see....and I'm pretty sure one of the excuses will be server costs.
..Cake..
Have you met Chris Roberts in person at some point in time ?
I have, at Gamescon 2014.
In my personal opinion MONEY is not the motivation of this man. Not by far.
Have fun
I wasn't as mesmerized by him as you.
I'm a logical man.
..Cake..
If Roberts had made this much money on a film, you would have never seen him near a game again. It's not coincidence that he only rediscovered his 'love of gaming' right when his Hollywood film career cratered. And his last film project has been tied up in litigation for something like five years. The production company went bankrupt.
But he is pretty good at selling that schtick.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
And I talk to people that worked with him in the Origin days. Be assured, none are throwing him any money.
I'm surprised any of you could get in the same room with him, considering the size of his head......
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Arglebargle ... you know people that worked with Chris Roberts.
Would they describe him as a man driven primarily by the motivation to make money ? (leaving aside the size of his ego)
My personal impression of the man was that he has a vision of something in his head and he wants to see this vision become reality. No matter the cost. No matter how long it takes. And its only HIS vision that matters. Every part has to fit into this vision.
People with a vision are rare. As one Austrian politician said "If you have a vision, you should go and see a doctor". Personally I think that politician was a narrow-minded idiot. E.g. Steve Jobs was a visionary. He ALSO was a PITB to work with, according to many people that met him.
Have fun
Good luck maintaining servers for 10 years with "vision".
I liked the Steve Jobs analogy though (even though a very bad analogy) considering he was making/selling the most overpriced hardware in the commercial market.
..Cake..
He ISN'T a bussiness man??? I think EA and Blizzard would murder to get this man hired. Nestle and Comcast could learn from this man. The marketing textbooks will hail this man as a LEGEND! Why? He made the impossible possible. He made you pay cash for some thin air and promises. A hefty amount of cash. If that isn't the wet dream of every business man I don't know what would.
You make it sound like he's a snake oil salesman...
You do know that the marketing plan came mostly from Sandi Gardiner, do you ?
This will make her more famous than her semi-successful acting career.
Cindy Armstrong (ex-Chief Financial Officer) was head-hunted away from CIG early in the project by a much bigger company in the gaming business.
Have fun
Well, that is what a non-trivial amount of those 77 M$ have been ear-marked for according to Chris Roberts interviews.
Seems like he has Google experts on board to try something new with cloud computing w.r.t. the servers (thats very new info .. see last "Ten for the Chairman" video blog). The Google experts responsible for that cooperation are themselves backers of SC ... looks like they came up with an idea.
Have fun
It doesn't matter who made up the marketing plan. CR is the face, you believe HIS vision right? You believe he is THE MAN who will bring you the second coming. So HE is the One. I applaud CR for his brilliant mind in marketing. If I told you twenty years ago that one day a man would stand up to sell thin air and promises for $250+ and rake in millions you would call me a fool and spit me in the face. Finally He has come who will shake up marketing!! I think we can expect great things to come in the MMO market, all envisioned and it will all be due to this genius, Chris Roberts, the Harbinger.
I Will
You really do come up with a different answer to every topic that comes up in these lovely conversations of ours.
So he's already got the funds for 10 years of server maintenance costs put aside even though they still don't know what kind of servers they'll be needing (just for starters).
Yes, of course.
..Cake..
I don't think you understand the meaning of 'pay to win'...
--> Costing of server farms is not that hard. All the information is available on the internet (there are enough providers)
e.g. http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2008/12/server-hosting-rent-vs-buy/
--> CIG also has quite a few people with experience in the industry (especially the producers) .. and they have done this before.
--> If CIG changes its server concept to make it both cheaper AND with a higher performace (through cloud computing) then this would be even better.
--> Have fun
Okay, good retort! I'd grant you that. I do think he wants to make the grandest space game ever. I'm not in the 'he's a crook and gonna run off with money' camp. Just doubt he's going to be able to deliver properly. Now he's not completely incompetent. He's delivered games as a producer before. He's also helmed projects that were poorly managed, wasting money and time in spectacular amounts. I expect the promise of Star Citizen to end up being underdelivered. But hey, it has put space games back on the map big-time, so perhaps it will be worth all you guys' money.
Roberts is a self-deluding PT Barnum filled with vainglorious ideas. It's part of why he can be so convincing.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Thank you for that insight.
Have fun