Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Spiritual successor?
grimgryphon
Member CommonPosts: 682
What's up with all the assertions that some games are the "spiritual successor" to other old-school games. After hearing this in way too many places (GW2, SotA, PoE), I'm starting to think it actually means this:
"If we can convince gamers that this game will somehow be just like <insert favorite old-school MMO here> then we can get backers, because this game will hardly stand on its own."
Market-ese or truth?
What do you think?
Optional PvP = No PvP
Comments
A lot of people have been asking for X game, but with updated graphics. A large enough number that indie developers are starting to listen and attempt to make what people are asking for, niche games targeting smaller audiences.
Unfortunately, large investors have little interest in backing games targeting niche markets. To get necessary funding, the indie developers turn towards their target audience. They make sure the players know, "We are building a game that will be very similar to Game X, but with modern graphics." It sets the expectations and defines the niche audience they are aiming for.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Weasel phrase really, someone takes a few or even many features of a previous title and thinks somehow the new title will bear more than a superficial resemblance to the original.
What they fail to realize is that a MMORPG is really sum of it's parts, a perfect storm if you will and those parts can't be discarded or interchanged with other designs and maintain the same magic if you will.
So spiritual successor degenerates into pale imitation, at least so far.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It depends on the devs making the game.
I believe some are sincere about their claims, and really believe that it'll be a spiritual successor to a game that they once liked too. While others are simply preying on the nostalgia that a lot of gamers have towards certain titles. If there's anything all the Kickstarter's have proven it's that these players have no problem spreading their wallets wide open for a smooth talking dev. xD
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Agreed. It depends on the game. The EQ/Vanguard example is a good example of where that was the actual design and goal of development.
AGN's blog has a relevant recent entry that brings up several recent ones from Kickstarter.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The colloqiualism "spirtual successor" doesn't mean jack because it is put to the lie the by some much more useful colloqiualisms. These are:
"Talk is cheap, whiskey costs money"
and/or
"The proof is in the pudding"
If you read between the lines it means the following "We liked X but there were too many problems with it so we are doing a completely new design that attempts to keep the stuff we liked in X but it would be a blatant lie to say we are remaking X since we are basically changing everything. Since that we are not remaking it and have not actually made the new thing we can't actually even truly claim we kept the stuff we liked about X therefore this shit is all spiritual because it sure ain't real."
It is all bull. Don't fall for it.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
At least the people who named the product "I can't believe it's not butter" can say they never claimed it to be butter!
Another take on it is we would like to have game X but since we cant'/won't purchase the legal rights to it, we will pull this trick.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Actually the connection they make there is usually about the skill trees, and how painful it is to respec in PoE, which is a lot closer to D2's approach of no respecs than D3's "free to respec" as much as you want approach.
It's mostly the "hardcore" players that are promoting that stuff. I'm not a big fan of the whole "Haha, you didn't know the game or followed some online build, so now your character is screwed! Please start over!" approach as I tend to value my time too much for that kind of BS.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
You must be super high if you think Pantheon is gonna be a spiritual successor to EQ1. A game like EQ1 will never be made again because it will die before it was ever even born.
While the two games may share certain similar mechanics and features, you could also point to just about as many shared mechanics and features as a half dozen other games.
Good point. They have been floating out so many things from many games that they are acting like a spiritual successor to many games. A pantheon of spiritual successors!
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I honestly don't see the connection between D2 and PoE due to the skill system. Maybe if you said something like the Sphere Grid in FFX, then that's something else. They also eventually added respecs in D2 requiring effort, instead of the simplified D3 system with the goal of pleasing a new PC / Console audience.
One of the biggest minuses about PoE is the desync issues, which pretty much erases the viability for most builds. If you have anything that attacks even a little too fast, good luck.
Pantheon is the real deal.
Brad McQuaid: 2 legit 2 quit. Hey-heyyyyyyy!
How I read this is "We liked some things about this old game. So we will build something like it but missing what 'we developers' did not like."
The funny thing is I backed 2 "spiritual successor" games on KS. I had my doubts about that but the single player game Worlds of Magic (Master of Magic's "spiritual successor") released this month and City of Titans (City of Heroes' "spiritual successor") is still in early development.
I know these 2 games will NOT be the old games they proclaim to spiritually succeed, but I am curious just how close they will be. Worlds of Magic has added a LOT of features that MoM never had, and made some of the original features larger, more complex. I am still curious to find out if they got MoM's diplomacy feature working
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR