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Who you trust more? Mark Jacobs or Warden?
Mark Jacobs sold Mythic to EA was fired by EA while he tried to work for them. Mark is currently making Camelot Unchained.
Warden sold Shadowbane to UBIsoft and moved on to make several other successful games. Warden is J. Todd Coleman and is the Creative Director of Crowfall.
Who do you trust to make your next game?
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Comments
whoever makes a fun game with a decent business model, supports the game, dont try to rip off their costumers, etc etc etc
You get the idea.
So the sins of the past matter not?
the sins of the past are enough reason not to crowdfund, preorder, prepurchase, buy beta access,etc.
If they learned their lesson from their past mistakes and come out with a good game AND manage it well (no shady practices involved), then i have no reason to look into the past. On the other hand, if they keep doing the same then and didnt learn from their mistakes, then that is the sign you need to not buy the game and look elsewhere
As far as game mechanics go, I trust Warden/Coleman. While the shadowbane coding was terrible, the pvp game design was the best of any mmorpg so far. It didn't have a lot of the funky edge conditions that most pvp games run into like fighting on safe-zone boundaries, sock puppet enemies, time zone oriented zergs, game ruining class imbalances, castle trading etc etc.
In contrast, Camelot was PvP theatre. Castle trading and what not. Lameness.
I can't trust or not trust someone I don't know. So many variables in why people do what they do. All parties involved have baggage and history, good and bad.
They all seem to love what they do and have passion in their products. Neither had the luxury of have tons of years of experience to refer to in the genre when they made their games and it showed in both uniqueness/creativity and issues. Hopefully 10+ years has let them reflect and have a lot more knowledge to work with moving forward.
Looking at what has been revealed of both, I'm guessing that CF will release sooner and have more avenues of entertainment. No reason we can't play both, but just as DAoC won me away from SB, CF most likely will keep me away from really getting into CU.
While they are competing on some level, they really aren't the same type of game.
I funded both, EA is a disaster machine so I don't blame Jacobs. Currently in Alpha for CU and I think (IMO) people will be pleasantly surprised with the game once everything is fleshed out.
I like what I am seeing ON PAPER for Crowfall but I don't think it's a matter of trust, just keep up with your promise and original vision.
I'm not really getting what the sin was, selling sb to ubi I guess? If so, I guess I don't really hold a grudge for that one. It was a different time anyway, and they did release and support the game for a long time even with its issues. Selling mythic to EA at the time it was done, or anything to EA for that matter, was more obviously going to result in a disaster.
Anyway I'm a huge SB fan so I'll be watching Crowfall. I wont fund, because I don't pay money to maybe get a product someday. I don't even preorder anymore, I think the years I spent preordering games sent a bad message to the industry that helped bring it to where it is now.
What a strangely negative question.
Mark Jacobs - and fellow founders / shareholders - since he didn't own Mythic - sold Mythic to EA because they were making Warhammer and did not have the money to finish the game. As MJ said at the time it was either sell or close down development and lay-off 200+ people. There was absolutely no contest.
And as for him being "fired" interesting choice of words. MJ and EA parted company for sure and cut backs were needed but was he "fired"? Rob Denison (spelling) - one of he other co-founders - carried on working at EA and was there until very recently.
As a person however MJ was always a straight talker. When discussing plans he would always finish with a health warning for example that plans might change. And he didn't shirk from giving unpopular answers either e.g. when DAoC lost its community manager in a round of lay-offs and people were bitching he took the trouble to respond and told people it was either that or DAoC had to close (closure being the original proposal that he fought to over turn).
And to finish a positive word for EA as well. They could have closed DAoC last year but helped set up Broadsword and are providing support to keep the game running - although they are no longer involved directly.
As to Shadowbane / Warden: much lower profile but again the sale to UbiSoft was absolutely necessary. Would it have been more successful if the team had listened less? Doubt it. They were also always frank albeit less high profile than MJ.
And to finish a pat on the back for UbiSoft as well who also arranged for Shadowbane to continue.
Why do we need to blame? I want to play games and if I enjoy their games, does the past matter? We are not talking about serial killers or rapists now are we?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
^This too....
You know nothing about them so stop vilifying them!
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
I couldn't care less about developer past mistakes or transgressions. Do they cheat on their taxes? Their wife? Play cock magic? Don't care.
As a fellow poster once said on these forums, I'm looking to buy their games, not their virginity.
I trust Mark Jacobs implicitly. For those that need a history lesson, MJ was totally screwed by Paul Barnett and Jeff Hickman both of whom had no business leading the development for an MMO. You can read a letter by a former EA employee that revealed the garbage that was going on at EA Mythic. Sad thing is, MJ offered to buy back DAoC from EA and they refused out of spite. There is way more to this story but MJ keeps quite about most of it out of respect for the staff he used to employ and because he has class.
Mark Jacobs has been totally candid with his current pool of backers. He's been honest and straight forward when announcing delays and progress and the work they're doing on CU is awesome.
It is companies like the evil Electronic Arts that foster the need for Kickstarter backed games. There is too much political BS going on with major developers who are only interested in the bottom line. They could care less about gamers and the employees that make games.
I have backed both Camelot Unchained and Crowfall and I would encourage you to do the same. It's our only hope to save the MMO genre for the niche MMO (read, non-WOW-like) crowd.
If they make a good game, play it.
If you're considering backing a project still in development, stop. Quit paying for stuff that doesn't exist.
So according to you we should continue to rely on the corporate monsters to produce the games that niche gamers want? You're out of your mind! People like you are going to be playing games like Crowfall three years from now and loving it, thanks to original backers.
No...you should play a good game when it's made and stop being so pretentious. Or stop worrying about who was behind it. Just play the friggin game.
Gimme a friggin break with this crap...srsly...
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Trust is a strong word.
I helped crowdfund ACEs game. I watched, for the first time EVER, an entire evening's worth of streams. I believe in their vision. I believe in the concept of the game. I enjoyed the banter, the way that JTC spoke. Gordon's presence. That said...
I don't trust anyone until a product is on my hard drive.
Exactly
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."