I can attest to this, as I went right from UO to WoW. Didn't really pay attention to EQ because all I heard was how hard it was because it was difficult
Fixed and the main reason why Wow was popular.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
With as saturated as the MMO sphere is now, I think WoW is smart in not developing another MMORPG at this time. Maybe when WoW runs unprofitable for a couple of years that they may want to start thinking about making a new game.
Good Old Blizzard North, we had SC1, Warcraft 3, D2 than they proved that they can make MMO-s like vanilla WoW.
More than 10 years passed and they let us down! by now we should have gotten some Diablo mmo or SC mmo but all we got is some card games, some pandas and murlocks, huge fail d3 and some cheap ass over simplified anoying moba called hots ( murlock hero included which usually is troll pick to loose...)
Where is our SC mmo
Don't wanna really hurt your Blizzard hate bubble but, Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm are actually very good games
Good Old Blizzard North, we had SC1, Warcraft 3, D2 than they proved that they can make MMO-s like vanilla WoW.
More than 10 years passed and they let us down! by now we should have gotten some Diablo mmo or SC mmo but all we got is some card games, some pandas and murlocks, huge fail d3 and some cheap ass over simplified anoying moba called hots ( murlock hero included which usually is troll pick to loose...)
Where is our SC mmo
Don't wanna really hurt your Blizzard hate bubble but, Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm are actually very good games
And Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls is the best incarnation of the Diablo franchise yet....but don't let reality get in the way of the OPs misguided (Blizz Noth creating SC WC3, WoW?????????) hate train
I can attest to this, as I went right from UO to WoW. Didn't really pay attention to EQ because all I heard was how hard it was because it was difficult
Fixed and the main reason why Wow was popular.
Well I should hope so! That is what is most fun with mmorpgs, challenge and difficulty. The bad thing is trying to gather people together to get the challenge and difficulty accomplished.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Good Old Blizzard North, we had SC1, Warcraft 3, D2 than they proved that they can make MMO-s like vanilla WoW.
More than 10 years passed and they let us down! by now we should have gotten some Diablo mmo or SC mmo but all we got is some card games, some pandas and murlocks, huge fail d3 and some cheap ass over simplified anoying moba called hots ( murlock hero included which usually is troll pick to loose...)
Where is our SC mmo
Don't wanna really hurt your Blizzard hate bubble but, Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm are actually very good games
And Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls is the best incarnation of the Diablo franchise yet....but don't let reality get in the way of the OPs misguided (Blizz Noth creating SC WC3, WoW?????????) hate train
I didn't say Blizzard North made wow, i was saying that Blizzard noth was awesome and vanilla wow as well so i hope everybody stop recorecting this! it's just small word fail because of laziness. I don't have any hate bubble. anyway just wish Blizz had made another epic MMo after 10 freaking years seriously 10 years. I know Hs is not bad but it's not epic like the god old Blizz games and that's the point here
The past 10 years of development in WoW shows that they have no idea how to make an MMO. They just designed a simple version of EQ, which was already popular, and advertised the shit out of it.
That's all Blizzard has ever done well, really. Rehash old ideas for a new market, and dumb it down for mass audiences.
I wouldn't say that. The warcraft line showed vast improvements and even innovations to its RTS gameplay. By the time they were done with Warcraft 3, they clearly didn't see much more potential in creating further Warcraft RTS games and went for an MMORPG to end the series. It was a good move, in retrospect, since it allowed the developers a chance to diversify out of the games they already created. We'd also not have Vikings for the Super NES if Blizzard hadn't stepped into that arena. There literally wasn't any other game on the Super NES quite like it.
The Blizzard of today is not the Blizzard of yesteryear. Most of the original developers of Blizzard North left shortly after Burning Crusade launched (first expansion for World of Warcraft). The dream team is gone, but their legacy remains.
More importantly, Hearthstone is a major success, and their target of creating a MOBA with ease of entry is a very good idea considering how difficult it is to break into League of Legends and similar MOBA titles. They've learned, and hopefully we won't see any more D3's, Cataclysms, and chopped up SC2s.
It seemed Blizzard went down hill in terms of coming up with their own ideas after Warcraft 2 and Diablo 2. I'm not sure that Warcraft was even an original idea. I've read they took if from Warhammer and put their own spin on it. None the less I loved Warcraft 2, Diablo 1, and DIablo 3. Blizzard is now a company that targets a certain demographic that likes smartphone games and things of that nature. Eventually they will move on to something else when the market changes. It's unfortunate but true. I'm sure back then they were also targeting the biggest demographic that they thought they could. It just so happened it was a demographic that some of us liked at the time and also was made at a time where video games were still in their creative phase.
I would also add that I disagree with the assessment that people flocked to WoW because of Blizzard. There were a number of Blizzard fans back then, but no more then any other company had as a following. I know because I was there. I'm fairly certain most people jumped ship at the time from their current MMOs looking for something easier and less time consuming. Many people were burnt (tired) from the commitment required for other MMORPG games.
Good Old Blizzard North, we had SC1, Warcraft 3, D2 than they proved that they can make MMO-s like vanilla WoW.
More than 10 years passed and they let us down! by now we should have gotten some Diablo mmo or SC mmo but all we got is some card games, some pandas and murlocks, huge fail d3 and some cheap ass over simplified anoying moba called hots ( murlock hero included which usually is troll pick to loose...)
Where is our SC mmo
You do realize that the Blizzard of today is NOT that same Blizzard from back then. It's been Blizzard-Activision for a while now, a merger, and most of that original talent that made those classic games have since moved on to other studios and projects.
They've done a good job milking off those past successes, but they just aren't the same company.
A Starcraft mmo has always appealed to me & still does. Maybe another company will create something similar eventually. It is a shame Blizzard never decided to create it. I was subscribed to World of Warcraft for a few years, enjoyed it, always anticipating a possible World of StarCraft then gave-up on Blizzard doing so. It wasn't the primary reason by far for me cancelling my WoW subscription, but with no WoS it contributed since I was a bigger fan of that game.
Read this, you should educate yourself before making posts like this.
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
The past 10 years of development in WoW shows that they have no idea how to make an MMO. They just designed a simple version of EQ, which was already popular, and advertised the shit out of it.
That's all Blizzard has ever done well, really. Rehash old ideas for a new market, and dumb it down for mass audiences.
Don't make me laugh. WoW became popular because it was an amazing game. Trust me all those millions people didn't flock to WoW because EQ was popular. There were tons of BLizzard fans who loved their games. Blizzard's fanbase at the time of WoW's launch was massive and EQ was insignificant in comparison. WoW achieved a number of players that was bigger than the entire MMO industry back in 2004.
WoW was fun and it was epic. And it was set in a universe which was a hundredfold more popular than the niche EQ. MOst gamers haven't even heard of EQ.
I know it's hard for EQ fanboys to swallow this, but WOW put this genre on the map.
You are kidding right? Bigger than the entire MMO industry? Lineage 1 had almost 4 millions subs years before WoW even came out. EQ was not insignif cant. Lots and lots of people tried it but couldn't get into its "harcore" poltiic BS. Couple that with the advent of broadband in homes and and emerging real graphics card and it was on. I've played both extrensively. Even the original WoW developers (who played EQ endlessly) point to EQ as the start to it all. You can't conpare the two. Its like comparing a Model T and a Corvette. One with the begining and one was the innovation.
The past 10 years of development in WoW shows that they have no idea how to make an MMO. They just designed a simple version of EQ, which was already popular, and advertised the shit out of it.
That's all Blizzard has ever done well, really. Rehash old ideas for a new market, and dumb it down for mass audiences.
Read this, you should educate yourself before making posts like this.
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
The past 10 years of development in WoW shows that they have no idea how to make an MMO. They just designed a simple version of EQ, which was already popular, and advertised the shit out of it.
That's all Blizzard has ever done well, really. Rehash old ideas for a new market, and dumb it down for mass audiences.
Don't make me laugh. WoW became popular because it was an amazing game. Trust me all those millions people didn't flock to WoW because EQ was popular. There were tons of BLizzard fans who loved their games. Blizzard's fanbase at the time of WoW's launch was massive and EQ was insignificant in comparison. WoW achieved a number of players that was bigger than the entire MMO industry back in 2004.
WoW was fun and it was epic. And it was set in a universe which was a hundredfold more popular than the niche EQ. MOst gamers haven't even heard of EQ.
I know it's hard for EQ fanboys to swallow this, but WOW put this genre on the map.
No, I'm afraid the quoted poster hit the nail on the head. The only place here where you haven't conflated subjective opinion for objective quality is the implied quality of WoW, which was rather high, specifically rather higher than EQ.
everything else, WoW popularity, funness, epic ness, fan base size, the effect of WoW on the genre, etc, is totally irrelevant. Blizzard really did just blatantly copy EQ and advertise more. Like, objectively.
Read this, you should educate yourself before making posts like this.
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
The past 10 years of development in WoW shows that they have no idea how to make an MMO. They just designed a simple version of EQ, which was already popular, and advertised the shit out of it.
That's all Blizzard has ever done well, really. Rehash old ideas for a new market, and dumb it down for mass audiences.
Don't make me laugh. WoW became popular because it was an amazing game. Trust me all those millions people didn't flock to WoW because EQ was popular. There were tons of BLizzard fans who loved their games. Blizzard's fanbase at the time of WoW's launch was massive and EQ was insignificant in comparison. WoW achieved a number of players that was bigger than the entire MMO industry back in 2004.
WoW was fun and it was epic. And it was set in a universe which was a hundredfold more popular than the niche EQ. MOst gamers haven't even heard of EQ.
I know it's hard for EQ fanboys to swallow this, but WOW put this genre on the map.
No, I'm afraid the quoted poster hit the nail on the head. The only place here where you haven't conflated subjective opinion for objective quality is the implied quality of WoW, which was rather high, specifically rather higher than EQ.
everything else, WoW popularity, funness, epic ness, fan base size, the effect of WoW on the genre, etc, is totally irrelevant. Blizzard really did just blatantly copy EQ and advertise more. Like, objectively.
Not even remotely correct, but whatever you want to tell yourself.
Don't make me laugh. WoW became popular because it was an amazing game. Trust me all those millions people didn't flock to WoW because EQ was popular. There were tons of BLizzard fans who loved their games. Blizzard's fanbase at the time of WoW's launch was massive and EQ was insignificant in comparison. WoW achieved a number of players that was bigger than the entire MMO industry back in 2004.
WoW was fun and it was epic. And it was set in a universe which was a hundredfold more popular than the niche EQ. MOst gamers haven't even heard of EQ.
I know it's hard for EQ fanboys to swallow this, but WOW put this genre on the map.
Even so Blizzard frack it up for after 10 year the should have learn something but basically the are just do samething over and over again blizzard big misstake is that listen to wrong people on therecommunity and if WoW is good why is that lost so many player those past year?
And dont tell men it is just for people have grow up and got other things to do. No fact is that when high max lvl you grind youself out of mind to get best gear in game and when next expansion hit the 1st green reward gear is alot better then everything start all over again. Blizzard should have stop after Lich king expansion and start do a new mmo WoW 2 or SC mmo instead of do Cata crap expansion.
Don't make me laugh. WoW became popular because it was an amazing game. Trust me all those millions people didn't flock to WoW because EQ was popular. There were tons of BLizzard fans who loved their games. Blizzard's fanbase at the time of WoW's launch was massive and EQ was insignificant in comparison. WoW achieved a number of players that was bigger than the entire MMO industry back in 2004.
WoW was fun and it was epic. And it was set in a universe which was a hundredfold more popular than the niche EQ. MOst gamers haven't even heard of EQ.
I know it's hard for EQ fanboys to swallow this, but WOW put this genre on the map.
Even so Blizzard frack it up for after 10 year the should have learn something but basically the are just do samething over and over again blizzard big misstake is that listen to wrong people on therecommunity and if WoW is good why is that lost so many player those past year?
And dont tell men it is just for people have grow up and got other things to do. No fact is that when high max lvl you grind youself out of mind to get best gear in game and when next expansion hit the 1st green reward gear is alot better then everything start all over again. Blizzard should have stop after Lich king expansion and start do a new mmo WoW 2 or SC mmo instead of do Cata crap expansion.
Why BLizzard lost people? Well, the game is 10 years old. Nothing lasts forever. I don't know about you but the vast majority of people crave variety and new things. There is so much one game can do to keep your interest for 10 years. I was a huge WoW fan and played that game a lot when it came out. But I honestly can't think how blizzard could've kept me as a subscriber. I can't play the same thing forever. And a lot of people are the same.
What you should be asking yourself how the hell is that game so popular after 10 years?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Lots and lots of people tried it but couldn't get into its "harcore" poltiic BS.
I imagine most people, like me, stopped playing Lineage 1 long before we got to any politics-related tier of progression. The core game was a dead-boring grind, just like Lineage 2, but worse graphics. That's what stopped most.
Oh I guess that sentence was in regards to EQ not L1? Still, the dead-boring grind part really applies to all pre-WOW MMORPGs so I guess what I said still applies.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Originally posted by Letsinod Lots and lots of people tried it but couldn't get into its "harcore" poltiic BS.
I imagine most people, like me, stopped playing Lineage 1 long before we got to any politics-related tier of progression. The core game was a dead-boring grind, just like Lineage 2, but worse graphics. That's what stopped most.
Oh I guess that sentence was in regards to EQ not L1? Still, the dead-boring grind part really applies to all pre-WOW MMORPGs so I guess what I said still applies.
Nope not all pre-wow mmo were boring grinds. It wasn't WoW that bought us the kind questing you see in all MMOs today, WoW was not first true theme park mmo.
everything else, WoW popularity, funness, epic ness, fan base size, the effect of WoW on the genre, etc, is totally irrelevant. Blizzard really did just blatantly copy EQ and advertise more. Like, objectively.
WOW did advertise more, but as a result of their having a superior game where advertising revenue paid for itself far better than other games (which is why it was worth it to continually re-invest into advertising.) This isn't the case in other games due to their gameplay.
Here's (simplified) how game advertising works:
You have a product which sells for $10.
It has a high interest, so that fully half the people who see it buy it. This means your average revenue per impression is $5.
You start buying ads at $0.50 per impression, making tons of profit (because each ad gives you $5 back.)
Advertising stock is limited -- any given company can only show so many ads to so many people (and additionally it can be hard to control for repeat viewers, so if you saturate the market and everyone has your product, you end up inadvertently advertising to people who already own your product.
So as you purchase more ads, the cost increases. $1, $2, $3, $4, $5 -- oops now it costs as much to buy ads as we get in sales, so we have to stop advertising.
Meanwhile
Joe has a product which is also $10.
It has lower interest, so only 25% of people who see it buy it. Which puts his average revenue per impression at $2.50.
When his ads get to $2.50, he has to stop buying them. Which is a lot fewer ads.
Because of how this works WOW did eventually advertise way more than typical games, but the heart of WOW's engine has always been its gameplay. To this day I haven't found a single MMORPG with combat deeper than WOW's. Often MMORPGs get one thing right while failing at the other (TOR had great rotations, but zero mob variety to make things dynamic; FFXIV kinda seems to have the opposite problem with flat rotations but pretty good mob variety.)
(An 'impression' is a single ad view. I mostly used this type of ad-buy because it's the easiest to understand. Admittedly that type of ad selling is rarer nowadays, especially in certain parts of the game industry where they're almost not used. Still seems relevant to any game with a B2P component though.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Blizzard is the Justin Beiber, One Direction, Taylor Swift of MMO's. They cater to the "pop culture". In order to understand the "pop culture" you must first learn how to shut your brain off. Then you must watch non-stop cliche citcoms on t.v. over and over again until you get nosebleeds.
Originally posted by SavageHorizon Nope not all pre-wow mmo were boring grinds. It wasn't WoW that bought us the kind questing you see in all MMOs today, WoW was not first true theme park mmo.
Dropping the subjective boring, which pre-WOW MMORPGs were as grindy as WOW? (As vanilla WOW, to keep things fair and reasonable; vanilla WOW admittedly still had a bit of a grind to it.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Comments
Fixed and the main reason why Wow was popular.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Don't wanna really hurt your Blizzard hate bubble but, Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm are actually very good games
And Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls is the best incarnation of the Diablo franchise yet....but don't let reality get in the way of the OPs misguided (Blizz Noth creating SC WC3, WoW?????????) hate train
Hangin' out at the Bar with Starcraft Ghost, talking about "what could've been".
Well I should hope so! That is what is most fun with mmorpgs, challenge and difficulty. The bad thing is trying to gather people together to get the challenge and difficulty accomplished.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I didn't say Blizzard North made wow, i was saying that Blizzard noth was awesome and vanilla wow as well so i hope everybody stop recorecting this! it's just small word fail because of laziness. I don't have any hate bubble.
anyway just wish Blizz had made another epic MMo after 10 freaking years seriously 10 years. I know Hs is not bad but it's not epic like the god old Blizz games and that's the point here
I wouldn't say that. The warcraft line showed vast improvements and even innovations to its RTS gameplay. By the time they were done with Warcraft 3, they clearly didn't see much more potential in creating further Warcraft RTS games and went for an MMORPG to end the series. It was a good move, in retrospect, since it allowed the developers a chance to diversify out of the games they already created. We'd also not have Vikings for the Super NES if Blizzard hadn't stepped into that arena. There literally wasn't any other game on the Super NES quite like it.
The Blizzard of today is not the Blizzard of yesteryear. Most of the original developers of Blizzard North left shortly after Burning Crusade launched (first expansion for World of Warcraft). The dream team is gone, but their legacy remains.
More importantly, Hearthstone is a major success, and their target of creating a MOBA with ease of entry is a very good idea considering how difficult it is to break into League of Legends and similar MOBA titles. They've learned, and hopefully we won't see any more D3's, Cataclysms, and chopped up SC2s.
It seemed Blizzard went down hill in terms of coming up with their own ideas after Warcraft 2 and Diablo 2. I'm not sure that Warcraft was even an original idea. I've read they took if from Warhammer and put their own spin on it. None the less I loved Warcraft 2, Diablo 1, and DIablo 3. Blizzard is now a company that targets a certain demographic that likes smartphone games and things of that nature. Eventually they will move on to something else when the market changes. It's unfortunate but true. I'm sure back then they were also targeting the biggest demographic that they thought they could. It just so happened it was a demographic that some of us liked at the time and also was made at a time where video games were still in their creative phase.
I would also add that I disagree with the assessment that people flocked to WoW because of Blizzard. There were a number of Blizzard fans back then, but no more then any other company had as a following. I know because I was there. I'm fairly certain most people jumped ship at the time from their current MMOs looking for something easier and less time consuming. Many people were burnt (tired) from the commitment required for other MMORPG games.
You do realize that the Blizzard of today is NOT that same Blizzard from back then. It's been Blizzard-Activision for a while now, a merger, and most of that original talent that made those classic games have since moved on to other studios and projects.
They've done a good job milking off those past successes, but they just aren't the same company.
After watching 10 years of nearly every other MMO developer push our garbage, I can think of many other developers that let "us" down.
I can't blame Blizzard for not cleaning up what they have done to the genre.
A Starcraft mmo has always appealed to me & still does. Maybe another company will create something similar eventually. It is a shame Blizzard never decided to create it. I was subscribed to World of Warcraft for a few years, enjoyed it, always anticipating a possible World of StarCraft then gave-up on Blizzard doing so. It wasn't the primary reason by far for me cancelling my WoW subscription, but with no WoS it contributed since I was a bigger fan of that game.
You are kidding right? Bigger than the entire MMO industry? Lineage 1 had almost 4 millions subs years before WoW even came out. EQ was not insignif cant. Lots and lots of people tried it but couldn't get into its "harcore" poltiic BS. Couple that with the advent of broadband in homes and and emerging real graphics card and it was on. I've played both extrensively. Even the original WoW developers (who played EQ endlessly) point to EQ as the start to it all. You can't conpare the two. Its like comparing a Model T and a Corvette. One with the begining and one was the innovation.
Khm, Fools day is tomorrow only. :-)
No, I'm afraid the quoted poster hit the nail on the head. The only place here where you haven't conflated subjective opinion for objective quality is the implied quality of WoW, which was rather high, specifically rather higher than EQ.
everything else, WoW popularity, funness, epic ness, fan base size, the effect of WoW on the genre, etc, is totally irrelevant. Blizzard really did just blatantly copy EQ and advertise more. Like, objectively.
Not even remotely correct, but whatever you want to tell yourself.
Even so Blizzard frack it up for after 10 year the should have learn something but basically the are just do samething over and over again blizzard big misstake is that listen to wrong people on there community and if WoW is good why is that lost so many player those past year?
And dont tell men it is just for people have grow up and got other things to do. No fact is that when high max lvl you grind youself out of mind to get best gear in game and when next expansion hit the 1st green reward gear is alot better then everything start all over again. Blizzard should have stop after Lich king expansion and start do a new mmo WoW 2 or SC mmo instead of do Cata crap expansion.
Why BLizzard lost people? Well, the game is 10 years old. Nothing lasts forever. I don't know about you but the vast majority of people crave variety and new things. There is so much one game can do to keep your interest for 10 years. I was a huge WoW fan and played that game a lot when it came out. But I honestly can't think how blizzard could've kept me as a subscriber. I can't play the same thing forever. And a lot of people are the same.
What you should be asking yourself how the hell is that game so popular after 10 years?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
@OP
Blizzard is in the market for widest most mainstream population and their bucks and so it's creating such entertainent.
It is not company that is creating games for you OP. Starcraft 1/Warcraft 3/WoW Vanilla were 11-15 years ago. Time to understand this and move on.
I imagine most people, like me, stopped playing Lineage 1 long before we got to any politics-related tier of progression. The core game was a dead-boring grind, just like Lineage 2, but worse graphics. That's what stopped most.
Oh I guess that sentence was in regards to EQ not L1? Still, the dead-boring grind part really applies to all pre-WOW MMORPGs so I guess what I said still applies.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I imagine most people, like me, stopped playing Lineage 1 long before we got to any politics-related tier of progression. The core game was a dead-boring grind, just like Lineage 2, but worse graphics. That's what stopped most.
Oh I guess that sentence was in regards to EQ not L1? Still, the dead-boring grind part really applies to all pre-WOW MMORPGs so I guess what I said still applies.
Nope not all pre-wow mmo were boring grinds. It wasn't WoW that bought us the kind questing you see in all MMOs today, WoW was not first true theme park mmo.WOW did advertise more, but as a result of their having a superior game where advertising revenue paid for itself far better than other games (which is why it was worth it to continually re-invest into advertising.) This isn't the case in other games due to their gameplay.
Here's (simplified) how game advertising works:
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Blizzard is the Justin Beiber, One Direction, Taylor Swift of MMO's. They cater to the "pop culture". In order to understand the "pop culture" you must first learn how to shut your brain off. Then you must watch non-stop cliche citcoms on t.v. over and over again until you get nosebleeds.
Now you are ready for Blizzard...
Dropping the subjective boring, which pre-WOW MMORPGs were as grindy as WOW? (As vanilla WOW, to keep things fair and reasonable; vanilla WOW admittedly still had a bit of a grind to it.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver