You keep resetting the development clock to 2012 as if that makes everything prior to that go away, well sorry it doesn't. That is the legacy of the development team, they failed on 5 years of work. How many times can they keep throwing out years of work before the idea needs to be addressed that this team may be incapable of making a game?
I'm pointing out that historically games that went through the development process and ended up as vaporware were projects that were in active development filled with developers promising they were working hard on their respective games. There came a point when those projects were never going to complete and it was long before they were officially cancelled.
The point being argued is if EQN has hit that point or not. It doesn't matter what the developers say, because historically their claims have not prevented any project from being vaporware. All they are claiming is intent.
I'm with you in the camp that thinks something called EQN will release, but if someone said to me that EQN is vaporware there is no plausible argument I could offer to say they are wrong.
At this point I can't even honestly say that the design you point to from 2012 is even the goal anymore. That is how shaky the team is talking about what they are doing and it all suggests they are either redesigning the game for how knows how many times now or cutting things they can't make work.
Hehe, being silent does not mean being shaky. It means they don't eabt to reveal information. The "why" of that is up to interpretation since we aren't part of the DGC team but it's absolutely plausible that they are waiting to release info because it builds tension. Even now they are getting attention and people are talking about it without devulging anything.
EQN as we know it started 2012, there's no getting around that no matter who worked on what when pr for how long. Could you even know if it was the exact same team down to the member?
You keep resetting the development clock to 2012 as if that makes everything prior to that go away, well sorry it doesn't. That is the legacy of the development team, they failed on 5 years of work. How many times can they keep throwing out years of work before the idea needs to be addressed that this team may be incapable of making a game?
You keep insisting the team from the start to now is the same. As far as I can tell, Rosie is the only dev at least lead or in the public eye that has been around since the first version.
If you toss out the majority of the work done and the team that did it, does that not reset the clock?
I understand holding the company as a whole to some expectation of yours, but the current team hasn't been around before 2012 so not sure why they are individually or as a team held responsible for past mistakes or wasted time.
I'm pointing out that historically games that went through the development process and ended up as vaporware were projects that were in active development filled with developers promising they were working hard on their respective games. There came a point when those projects were never going to complete and it was long before they were officially cancelled.
Name a few AAA titles from AAA companies that did so. As in companies that have been around for a while, not one off shops that failed their first project, or games that we only heard whispers of (Titan).
I don't know of many myself.
To me there is a big difference between a company going "We are making a game, we promise" ....silence for 6 months...."We are still making a game, we promise".....silence.....compared to "We are making a game, here is a fully playable pre-alpha of sorts" .... monthly/weekly updates..."Here is what we are still doing and things are moving along."
Maybe I'm feeling my age or something, but "Vaporware" used to mean something that never actually released, not something that people predicted wouldn't release. But then again, maybe that is just my interpretation.
That whole "point when those projects were never going to complete" is where the silence for X time comes in. When devs are posting as of today (5/18/15) I don't really consider that the point of "never going to complete."
The point being argued is if EQN has hit that point or not. It doesn't matter what the developers say, because historically their claims have not prevented any project from being vaporware. All they are claiming is intent.
Who are you or anyone to set this magical line? How do you subjectively decide if something is vapor or not? The idea that you somehow have enough insight into what is going on behind closed doors is a bit silly.
History =/= The Present.
I'm with you in the camp that thinks something called EQN will release, but if someone said to me that EQN is vaporware there is no plausible argument I could offer to say they are wrong.
Guess that's where the semantics or whatever comes in and each of us tosses in our subjective view of what vapor is or isn't. I'll give the devs the benefit of the doubt. If I felt they were lying or the game wouldn't release, I wouldn't waste 1 second on tossing words on a screen about it. I see zero evidence that it is vapor. Especially when factoring in all the variables (how long the game has been in development, setbacks to the company/team, the development style/cycle they are using, how involved they are with fans, etc).
At this point I can't even honestly say that the design you point to from 2012 is even the goal anymore. That is how shaky the team is talking about what they are doing and it all suggests they are either redesigning the game for how knows how many times now or cutting things they can't make work.
Can you point to something that shows the design has changed since the reveal Aug 2013?
Beyond your gut or some feeling you have, have they said or shown anything to suggest otherwise?
No word of them cutting anything or redesigning anything beyond the normal development process from what I've seen.
Seems lack of confidence in a company/project some how translates into what they are actually doing without any proof to back it up. I get it I guess, but doesn't make it any more correct.
Originally posted by Aelious I'd argue action combat is MORE RPG than tab. You have a more active role controlling your character.
I would argue that neither is "more RPG," because combat in these games is really the least RP part of the experience. When combat starts it becomes a different animal, and bears really no resemblance to RP situations as I would define them. If you mean RPG as in Final Fantasy or something like that then the other guy is right, and action is not RPG.
I think action combat has it's own merits, but I have never seen it be something that bolsters the immersion except maybe in Age of Conan.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Originally posted by Aelious I'd argue action combat is MORE RPG than tab. You have a more active role controlling your character.
I would argue that neither is "more RPG," because combat in these games is really the least RP part of the experience. When combat starts it becomes a different animal, and bears really no resemblance to RP situations as I would define them. If you mean RPG as in Final Fantasy or something like that then the other guy is right, and action is not RPG.
I think action combat has it's own merits, but I have never seen it be something that bolsters the immersion except maybe in Age of Conan.
If by "RPG" we're talking about playing the role of another character I would think that any mechanic that gives you more control over said character you're supposed to be playing would be better. I don't just see RP as a means of talking or emoting, it's the whole enchilada (though talk/emote is a big part). This is my view of course. My eventual want is to have VR helms and motions controllers so I have 100% control over my online avatar. I have a ways to wait though so in the meantime reticle combat is the closest thing.
Aside from that aspect I just can't play UI Simulator anymore, it's just boring. I can get the same type of gameplay from mobile game these days and it actually takes away another dimension of difficulty. Once spells/abilities are auto-locked the speed and movement of a mob becomes a nonfactor. I'd rather have reticle targeting for that added difficulty (mobs can still scale HP/Armor regardless) and a real need for CC.
Originally posted by Aelious I'd argue action combat is MORE RPG than tab. You have a more active role controlling your character.
I would argue that neither is "more RPG," because combat in these games is really the least RP part of the experience. When combat starts it becomes a different animal, and bears really no resemblance to RP situations as I would define them. If you mean RPG as in Final Fantasy or something like that then the other guy is right, and action is not RPG.
I think action combat has it's own merits, but I have never seen it be something that bolsters the immersion except maybe in Age of Conan.
If by "RPG" we're talking about playing the role of another character I would think that any mechanic that gives you more control over said character you're supposed to be playing would be better. I don't just see RP as a means of talking or emoting, it's the whole enchilada (though talk/emote is a big part). This is my view of course. My eventual want is to have VR helms and motions controllers so I have 100% control over my online avatar. I have a ways to wait though so in the meantime reticle combat is the closest thing.
Aside from that aspect I just can't play UI Simulator anymore, it's just boring. I can get the same type of gameplay from mobile game these days and it actually takes away another dimension of difficulty. Once spells/abilities are auto-locked the speed and movement of a mob becomes a nonfactor. I'd rather have reticle targeting for that added difficulty (mobs can still scale HP/Armor regardless) and a real need for CC.
I beg to differ. My usual characters are 'archers' of one sort or another. The 'back story' on the character would have included a long period of specialised training as well as keen eyesight and fast reflexes. They would be in their prime.
I however am none of these things, my reflexes are slowing I now wear glasses and I never more than dabbled in archery.
I expect the mechanics of the game to simulate the abilities of my character while I guide the narrative and engage with the story of the world.
Now it is fine for the players to want to play a game that involves reflexes and rapid decision making: but it is also fine for players to want something entirely different. Now we used to call that something different 'role playing'. For me the same thing applies to VR, if I want to run around being an archer or a swordsman ... well there is LARP for that. What I want is much more contained; sitting at my desk using a mouse and keyboard and looking at a screen.
Originally posted by Aelious I'd argue action combat is MORE RPG than tab. You have a more active role controlling your character.
I would argue that neither is "more RPG," because combat in these games is really the least RP part of the experience. When combat starts it becomes a different animal, and bears really no resemblance to RP situations as I would define them. If you mean RPG as in Final Fantasy or something like that then the other guy is right, and action is not RPG.
I think action combat has it's own merits, but I have never seen it be something that bolsters the immersion except maybe in Age of Conan.
If by "RPG" we're talking about playing the role of another character I would think that any mechanic that gives you more control over said character you're supposed to be playing would be better. I don't just see RP as a means of talking or emoting, it's the whole enchilada (though talk/emote is a big part). This is my view of course. My eventual want is to have VR helms and motions controllers so I have 100% control over my online avatar. I have a ways to wait though so in the meantime reticle combat is the closest thing.
Aside from that aspect I just can't play UI Simulator anymore, it's just boring. I can get the same type of gameplay from mobile game these days and it actually takes away another dimension of difficulty. Once spells/abilities are auto-locked the speed and movement of a mob becomes a nonfactor. I'd rather have reticle targeting for that added difficulty (mobs can still scale HP/Armor regardless) and a real need for CC.
I beg to differ. My usual characters are 'archers' of one sort or another. The 'back story' on the character would have included a long period of specialised training as well as keen eyesight and fast reflexes. They would be in their prime.
I however am none of these things, my reflexes are slowing I now wear glasses and I never more than dabbled in archery.
I expect the mechanics of the game to simulate the abilities of my character while I guide the narrative and engage with the story of the world.
Now it is fine for the players to want to play a game that involves reflexes and rapid decision making: but it is also fine for players to want something entirely different. Now we used to call that something different 'role playing'. For me the same thing applies to VR, if I want to run around being an archer or a swordsman ... well there is LARP for that. What I want is much more contained; sitting at my desk using a mouse and keyboard and looking at a screen.
I say neither is rpg because your archer has no choice but to fire arrow with LMB, powerup arrow with RMB, or choose from a bunch of specials that have really nothing to do with archery (shot breaks armor and de-buffs power of enemy). If you were doing TTRPG or LARP the character has some ability to react in the situation and the test of their ability has a lot of factors. Games really suck at mimicking that. You will do the same shot every time, and though the character does it for you, it's really just too simple and same to be interesting in that way. Compound that with the fact that you will be loosing a tremendous amount of arrows over time in your deathless life as a graphic, and there is no real drama to it. Action archery is little different, as it will just vary the need to hit the button at different cues, and possibly allow you to miss (which is admittedly a step in the right direction).
Combat is RP if it is about tension from meaningful death, and if it has some element of conflict.
I have played too many MMORPGs to believe that either of those qualities exist much in the video games that replaced TTRPGs. I think it's totally possible to have fun in the way you describe, but to me it's not RP is all.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
I see the point both of you are making and I agree on all three views actually so I will rescind what is "more" RP. They all are. The amount of "RP" that any fantasy experience provides seems to depend on the person seeking the experience and how they want to role play. For me, I want my character to be "me" as much as possible though within the world that I'm playing and the tropes/background that come along with it. Reticle combat, and to take that further the VR experience would be more like LARPing I guess though in a world meant for it. I want that control to feel like I am more that character but it does come with my own human limitations (I'm getting up there myself ).
Originally posted by Boodar I lost interest the minute they chose to go the cheap route with a 20k team instead of a 100k team. Have fun with everquest meets farmville.
Hehe, that forum post is now hilarious in context because it wasn't even close, though it was a shot in the dark anyways. At least this way we will actually get a new EverQuest. If they had chosen the 100k themepark special I doubt it would have survived the split from Sony. It wouldn't have provided enough distinction in the market to warrant continuation IMO.
You keep insisting the team from the start to now is the same. As far as I can tell, Rosie is the only dev at least lead or in the public eye that has been around since the first version.
If you toss out the majority of the work done and the team that did it, does that not reset the clock?
I understand holding the company as a whole to some expectation of yours, but the current team hasn't been around before 2012 so not sure why they are individually or as a team held responsible for past mistakes or wasted time.
-=2=-
Name a few AAA titles from AAA companies that did so. As in companies that have been around for a while, not one off shops that failed their first project, or games that we only heard whispers of (Titan).
I don't know of many myself.
To me there is a big difference between a company going "We are making a game, we promise" ....silence for 6 months...."We are still making a game, we promise".....silence.....compared to "We are making a game, here is a fully playable pre-alpha of sorts" .... monthly/weekly updates..."Here is what we are still doing and things are moving along."
Maybe I'm feeling my age or something, but "Vaporware" used to mean something that never actually released, not something that people predicted wouldn't release. But then again, maybe that is just my interpretation.
That whole "point when those projects were never going to complete" is where the silence for X time comes in. When devs are posting as of today (5/18/15) I don't really consider that the point of "never going to complete."
-=3=-
Who are you or anyone to set this magical line? How do you subjectively decide if something is vapor or not? The idea that you somehow have enough insight into what is going on behind closed doors is a bit silly.
History =/= The Present.
-=4=-
Guess that's where the semantics or whatever comes in and each of us tosses in our subjective view of what vapor is or isn't. I'll give the devs the benefit of the doubt. If I felt they were lying or the game wouldn't release, I wouldn't waste 1 second on tossing words on a screen about it. I see zero evidence that it is vapor. Especially when factoring in all the variables (how long the game has been in development, setbacks to the company/team, the development style/cycle they are using, how involved they are with fans, etc).
-=5=-
Can you point to something that shows the design has changed since the reveal Aug 2013?
Beyond your gut or some feeling you have, have they said or shown anything to suggest otherwise?
No word of them cutting anything or redesigning anything beyond the normal development process from what I've seen.
Seems lack of confidence in a company/project some how translates into what they are actually doing without any proof to back it up. I get it I guess, but doesn't make it any more correct.
-=1=-
The company as a whole is the same company it was prior to 2012. It goes unspoken that there will be employee turnover in any company, but overall SOE (and their teams) are the same as it was for years and years now. The culture is the same, the leadership is the same and the results are the same. Pointing out a few new faces here and there doesn't change that.
Tossing out years of work may technically reset the clock, but it doesn't reset everything else that lead up to the point where all that work resulted in failure. What has really changed that would lead anyone to believe the same results will not happen with the new design?
For example: You keep offering that the MMO market evolved while EQN was being developed as a reason why that work was thrown out. The MMO market isn't going to stop evolving, so what is going to give the same team some new ability to correctly predict their new design will end up being something they want?
See the point?
-=2=-
This one is easy. SOE - The Agency.
Smed and company insisted the game was being worked on. Even after the top leadership from the project left the company. It too was a game that had long periods of silence about its development, but SOE promised it was going well... until they announced it was cancelled.
Good enough example for you?
-=3=-
Notice I said I don't think it is vaporware, so I'm not sure why you are yelling at me for what others think.
To answer your question: I have no idea where the magical line is that makes something vaporware, but one thing is for sure: it will happen long before you or I know about it. Which is why I think pointing to developers promising they are still working (but not showing) the game is not proof that a game isn't vaporware.
-=4=-
The point is that vaporware happens, despite developers best intentions. I don' think it really matters if the developers are being truthful or lying about their efforts.
Also where you find reasons to believe the game exists and will release, others do not. That doesn't make you right, but hopeful. Unfortunately most of the information available is suggests it may not turn out well.
-=5=-
The lead designer was fired? The company was sold? Storybricks partnership was cancelled? The teams efforts have been thrown out multiple times?
Just listen to how the team was talking during the damage control podcast after the buyout. The language used really suggests they have been sent back to the drawing board. I'm not talking a total revamp, but they are "seeing what makes sense" moving forward. I think they no longer have infinite time and resources and have to make choices about what they can make work and what they have to get rid of.
So yes I do think they have done thing and said things that suggest they are again going backwards or changing.
Judging a companies potential based on their very long and established efforts is a sensible thing to do. Having doubts after seeing the trainwreck this games development is going through is a rational reaction.
That may ruffle your feathers, but that doesn't mean everyone needs to put on blinders and pretend everything is fine just to hope that maybe the game turns out great. It can still defy all odds without putting your head in the sand.
The company as a whole is the same company it was prior to 2012. It goes unspoken that there will be employee turnover in any company, but overall SOE (and their teams) are the same as it was for years and years now. The culture is the same, the leadership is the same and the results are the same. Pointing out a few new faces here and there doesn't change that.
From what I can tell, all of the leads aka the leadership changed when they started the current design. Joe the art guy or Billy the engineer aren't the ones designing the game, they are making what they are told. If you look at the leads and their previous work, pretty easy to see the influences on EQN.
Tossing out years of work may technically reset the clock, but it doesn't reset everything else that lead up to the point where all that work resulted in failure. What has really changed that would lead anyone to believe the same results will not happen with the new design?
They actually revealed the design and have continued to openly support it.
They have a working model with Landmark that they are testing features in.
They've yet to say anything that would support the notion that they are going to scrap it all or make drastic changes.
For example: You keep offering that the MMO market evolved while EQN was being developed as a reason why that work was thrown out. The MMO market isn't going to stop evolving, so what is going to give the same team some new ability to correctly predict their new design will end up being something they want?
You might mean someone else, but I do agree for the most part. The market has and will continue to change.
Look at the upcoming games and you should see terms like Open, Sandbox, Emergent, Player Made, etc.
I'm assuming (and they've said) that they are planning for the next 10+ years. Voxels, Storybricks, horizontal Sandbox designs are what could help them get there.
They've even said they are looking at VR to cover that area.
There is also a lack of PVE or story driven mmorpgs at the moment as well. They don't have a lot of competition for what they are going for. They don't need to readjust as there isn't anything else to battle against beyond the cookie cutter WoW model games already out and dated.
-=2=-
This one is easy. SOE - The Agency.
Smed and company insisted the game was being worked on. Even after the top leadership from the project left the company. It too was a game that had long periods of silence about its development, but SOE promised it was going well... until they announced it was cancelled.
I unfortunately had zero interest in that game so didn't really follow it. I understand that they closed studios and the games they were working on. PS2 coming out might have had some impact as well, no idea.
Great example, although I personally wouldn't put it in the same league as an Everquest game. For all that I know of it, was just another FPS mmorpg that historically haven't done too hot. SOE has released, canceled, closed down many games that are pretty meh and I have no idea why they even wasted resource on such projects.
Can you name a few more? You seem to use some list as support to what will or could happen with EQN.
And just to point out, EQN hasn't had long periods of silence about its development. Twitch steam less than a week ago about EQN's development...
-=3=-
Notice I said I don't think it is vaporware, so I'm not sure why you are yelling at me for what others think.
To answer your question: I have no idea where the magical line is that makes something vaporware, but one thing is for sure: it will happen long before you or I know about it. Which is why I think pointing to developers promising they are still working (but not showing) the game is not proof that a game isn't vaporware.
Ya don't mean to make it all about You, but you are the one I'm responding to, that's why I tossed that anyone in there
If it is canceled or drastic changes happen, oh well. I'll believe it when I see it. I have no reason to disbelieve what is being presented about a video game at this point. If I had spend hundreds of dollars to support it or something, ya I'd be a bit concerned, but at this point the only thing Daybreak or EQN has from me is wasted time typing about it. If I had a game that was more entertaining, I'd be playing it (Come on Crowfall).
-=4=-
The point is that vaporware happens, despite developers best intentions. I don' think it really matters if the developers are being truthful or lying about their efforts.
Also where you find reasons to believe the game exists and will release, others do not. That doesn't make you right, but hopeful. Unfortunately most of the information available is suggests it may not turn out well.
I agree, it is subjective. All just fall back on my on going question of why people waste their time on things they have no faith in. I'm here for the long haul and for hopefully a decent end result. Those hoping or that know it will fail are here for?
-=5=-
The lead designer was fired? Actually he is still there (Darrin McPherson)
Maybe you meant Butler (Creative Director)? Honestly have no clue what he even did.
The company was sold?
While significant, doesn't instantly change development. While it is Smed, he's said that the new owners are handsoff in this area.
Storybricks partnership was cancelled?
They lost a few people from an outside team, the tech and all the work they did together is still there and planned to be the secret sauce of EQN.
The teams efforts have been thrown out multiple times?
This teams or previous teams? I've yet to see anything from this teams (last ~3 years) be thrown out.
Just listen to how the team was talking during the damage control podcast after the buyout. The language used really suggests they have been sent back to the drawing board. I'm not talking a total revamp, but they are "seeing what makes sense" moving forward. I think they no longer have infinite time and resources and have to make choices about what they can make work and what they have to get rid of.
So yes I do think they have done thing and said things that suggest they are again going backwards or changing.
The last group message did back pedal a bit, but for the most part they said it was business as usual. As in development of any game. Things happen, good/bad, whatever. No one can predict the future and to try is pointless. Although the only real detail that I heard them say was that it might not be F2P anymore, which was "set in stone" previously. Beyond that, the design and features were still as planned.
I'm not going to disagree that the timeline and funding might have changed, but we have no clue either way.
Judging a companies potential based on their very long and established efforts is a sensible thing to do. Having doubts after seeing the trainwreck this games development is going through is a rational reaction.
That may ruffle your feathers, but that doesn't mean everyone needs to put on blinders and pretend everything is fine just to hope that maybe the game turns out great. It can still defy all odds without putting your head in the sand.
I'll fully accept the blinders, but I'm not going to be negative just for negative's sake about a video game. I'm here for a good time. If I was honestly hurt, upset, disgruntled, angry, in disbelief or any word of the sort when it comes to a bunch of pixels, I wouldn't bother.
Honestly don't get why some are so concerned about EQN's future. If it sucks or cancels, oh well. If it doesn't, yay another game for people to play. Why anyone would attempt to cast doubt, put down, or bad mouth a product that hasn't even been released is silly to me.
Then again, we are on the internet, so makes sense I guess. We aren't going to convince each other that we are right and around we go.
(snip)I look at this way.. Since the release of EQ2 about 10 years ago, SOE/Daybreak has launched close to 10 games for the PC, and damn near "ALL" of them closed up.. Oh sure early on in the beginning SOE got lucky with the original EQ, and with that success it carried some others, but lets not fool ourselves that SOE's record in the past 10 years suck..
-=2=-
This one is easy. SOE - The Agency.
Smed and company insisted the game was being worked on. Even after the top leadership from the project left the company. It too was a game that had long periods of silence about its development, but SOE promised it was going well... until they announced it was cancelled.
Can you name a few more? You seem to use some list as support to what will or could happen with EQN. And just to point out, EQN hasn't had long periods of silence about its development. Twitch steam less than a week ago about EQN's development...
The list of failures in the past 10 years is many.. Go google SOE's games games developed in the recent past and see how many closed up shop.. As I said above, SOE's last 10 years is not impressive at all.. That alone would give me reason to FIRE Smed on the spot..
-=3=-
Notice I said I don't think it is vaporware, so I'm not sure why you are yelling at me for what others think.
To answer your question: I have no idea where the magical line is that makes something vaporware, but one thing is for sure: it will happen long before you or I know about it. Which is why I think pointing to developers promising they are still working (but not showing) the game is not proof that a game isn't vaporware.
Ya don't mean to make it all about You, but you are the one I'm responding to, that's why I tossed that anyone in there
If it is canceled or drastic changes happen, oh well. I'll believe it when I see it. I have no reason to disbelieve what is being presented about a video game at this point. If I had spend hundreds of dollars to support it or something, ya I'd be a bit concerned, but at this point the only thing Daybreak or EQN has from me is wasted time typing about it. If I had a game that was more entertaining, I'd be playing it (Come on Crowfall).
I have noticed the tone since the buyout coming from you and many others defenders of EQN.. What was once a very aggressive stance of defense, has now turned into a "oh well" if they cancel or change.. In my opinion, everything is vaporware until you have a working model in which to demo and expand.. I guess technically Landmark (engine) is their working model and that truly sucks.. Which in my opinion is about 33% of the game.. Where is the other 66%?
-=4=-
The point is that vaporware happens, despite developers best intentions. I don' think it really matters if the developers are being truthful or lying about their efforts.
I agree, it is subjective. All just fall back on my on going question of why people waste their time on things they have no faith in. I'm here for the long haul and for hopefully a decent end result. Those hoping or that know it will fail are here for?
Maybe, those anticipating it will fail are hoping for executive change.. I know I am.. Watching a perfectly good IP go to shit because of poor leadership is painful.. Just like Star Wars Galaxies, it was painful to watch a great IP get destroyed because too many useless devs had NO CLUE how to make a game fun without dozens of game breaking bugs.. I loved the first Beverly Hills Cops movie, and the second was OK too.... BUT OMFGGGGGGG.. Who in the hell gave the green light for the 3rd one? That joker needs to be fired and black balled from the industry forever.. LOL I put Smed in the same boat..
-=5=-
The lead designer was fired? Actually he is still there (Darrin McPherson) Maybe you meant Butler (Creative Director)? Honestly have no clue what he even did. Georgie, Butler and Moorguard = GONE.. I think that is significant..
The company was sold? While significant, doesn't instantly change development. While it is Smed, he's said that the new owners are handsoff in this area.SOE has been in the "red" for years and Sony trimmed off some useless expensive fat.. Heck I still don't know what the final price was.. Do you?
Storybricks partnership was cancelled? They lost a few people from an outside team, the tech and all the work they did together is still there and planned to be the secret sauce of EQN. Ha Ha.. lost a few people?.. Storybricks is no more, as they closed shop as well.. and NO ONE knows anything about what was actually salvaged.. For all we know, the only thing that left from Storybricks could be 3 lines of code, so technically I guess they weren't lying (just not exactly honest either).. lol
The teams efforts have been thrown out multiple times? This teams or previous teams? I've yet to see anything from this teams (last ~3 years) be thrown out.I have yet to see ANYTHING from this team that is actually a working model of EQN besides Landmark minecrafting.. LOL
Just listen to how the team was talking during the damage control podcast after the buyout. The language used really suggests they have been sent back to the drawing board. I'm not talking a total revamp, but they are "seeing what makes sense" moving forward. I think they no longer have infinite time and resources and have to make choices about what they can make work and what they have to get rid of.
So yes I do think they have done thing and said things that suggest they are again going backwards or changing.
The last group message did back pedal a bit, but for the most part they said it was business as usual. OH they definitely back peddled a lot.. It was just as bad as watching a politician hold a press conference defending their wrong doings..
When was the last time we honestly heard of saw anything meaningful about EQN? Seriouslly.. and DON"T say "building Qeynos" in Landmark.. That is vaporbs.. LOL Do we know anything more about classes? Do we know anything more about spells and skills? Do we know anything more about the infamous awesome "NEW" AI yet? etc etc.. Silence is deafening.. lol
Originally posted by bingbongbros I was until they talked about combat and using the same stupid fucking system as GW2. I like having a lot of abilities to choose from and set up crazy combos. Not just 5 or 6 at a time. I hate GW2, so I'll probably hate EQN.
I agree the system is just a corner cutting system,something i see SOE full in on is corner cutting and speedy releases.
I guess i can't full on blame just SOLE,even my square Enix cut a lot of corners building FFXIV to the point i have lost all interest in anything further by Square.NONE of the big three are making anything triple A ,it is all corner cutting,instances and very simple linear game play.The ONLY thiong gamer's do in games is race to end game for end game loot,it really tells us that devs are not making FULL GAMES anymore,just end games,so about 2% of a game.
The only reason this unfinished game is not already out as a nearly access game is because their small staff that diddles in the game in between other cash grabs,has not got anything worthwhile done yet.Generated world, a licensed Voxel Farm a few tools,not enough else to say they have a large full time team on this game.I watched the one dev corner and all they could show us from their TEAM was a door and a few real cheap textures,i almost fell out of my chair in disbelief,it was like the effort of one man in a few days,not a team.
To me SOE is now an Indie developer pretending to be a big boy and with below average customer support to boot,they are simply looking for gimmicks on quick cash grabs.I am expecting a 4-5/10 release on Next ,nothing more.Will that be good enough to a lot of gamer's?Hard to tell,i saw a lot of support for H1Z1 release that was like a 2/10 release,i see tons supporting Minecraft a blocky 8 bit game,so i guess people now a days will support anything and i have seen some REAL bad games being supported.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
From what I can tell, all of the leads aka the leadership changed when they started the current design. Joe the art guy or Billy the engineer aren't the ones designing the game, they are making what they are told. If you look at the leads and their previous work, pretty easy to see the influences on EQN.
They actually revealed the design and have continued to openly support it.
They have a working model with Landmark that they are testing features in.
They've yet to say anything that would support the notion that they are going to scrap it all or make drastic changes.
You might mean someone else, but I do agree for the most part. The market has and will continue to change.
Look at the upcoming games and you should see terms like Open, Sandbox, Emergent, Player Made, etc.
I'm assuming (and they've said) that they are planning for the next 10+ years. Voxels, Storybricks, horizontal Sandbox designs are what could help them get there.
They've even said they are looking at VR to cover that area.
There is also a lack of PVE or story driven mmorpgs at the moment as well. They don't have a lot of competition for what they are going for. They don't need to readjust as there isn't anything else to battle against beyond the cookie cutter WoW model games already out and dated.
-=2=-
I unfortunately had zero interest in that game so didn't really follow it. I understand that they closed studios and the games they were working on. PS2 coming out might have had some impact as well, no idea.
Great example, although I personally wouldn't put it in the same league as an Everquest game. For all that I know of it, was just another FPS mmorpg that historically haven't done too hot. SOE has released, canceled, closed down many games that are pretty meh and I have no idea why they even wasted resource on such projects.
Can you name a few more? You seem to use some list as support to what will or could happen with EQN.
And just to point out, EQN hasn't had long periods of silence about its development. Twitch steam less than a week ago about EQN's development...
-=3=-
Ya don't mean to make it all about You, but you are the one I'm responding to, that's why I tossed that anyone in there
If it is canceled or drastic changes happen, oh well. I'll believe it when I see it. I have no reason to disbelieve what is being presented about a video game at this point. If I had spend hundreds of dollars to support it or something, ya I'd be a bit concerned, but at this point the only thing Daybreak or EQN has from me is wasted time typing about it. If I had a game that was more entertaining, I'd be playing it (Come on Crowfall).
-=4=-
I agree, it is subjective. All just fall back on my on going question of why people waste their time on things they have no faith in. I'm here for the long haul and for hopefully a decent end result. Those hoping or that know it will fail are here for?
-=5=-
Actually he is still there (Darrin McPherson)
Maybe you meant Butler (Creative Director)? Honestly have no clue what he even did.
While significant, doesn't instantly change development. While it is Smed, he's said that the new owners are handsoff in this area.
They lost a few people from an outside team, the tech and all the work they did together is still there and planned to be the secret sauce of EQN.
This teams or previous teams? I've yet to see anything from this teams (last ~3 years) be thrown out.
The last group message did back pedal a bit, but for the most part they said it was business as usual. As in development of any game. Things happen, good/bad, whatever. No one can predict the future and to try is pointless. Although the only real detail that I heard them say was that it might not be F2P anymore, which was "set in stone" previously. Beyond that, the design and features were still as planned.
I'm not going to disagree that the timeline and funding might have changed, but we have no clue either way.
----
I'll fully accept the blinders, but I'm not going to be negative just for negative's sake about a video game. I'm here for a good time. If I was honestly hurt, upset, disgruntled, angry, in disbelief or any word of the sort when it comes to a bunch of pixels, I wouldn't bother.
Honestly don't get why some are so concerned about EQN's future. If it sucks or cancels, oh well. If it doesn't, yay another game for people to play. Why anyone would attempt to cast doubt, put down, or bad mouth a product that hasn't even been released is silly to me.
Then again, we are on the internet, so makes sense I guess. We aren't going to convince each other that we are right and around we go.
-=1=-
You are nitpicking. This is still the same company run by the same people using the same culture and processes as it has been for over a decade By their own words nothing has changed, the plans are still the same and the new owners are hands off.
Why then would anyone expect their results to be any different than the last 10 years? That is the reality of the situation.
It is meaningless that a few new faces are there, especially when the ones leading the downward spiral are still in charge and half of the team is gone (again).
The point is no major changes have been made in order to rebuild the company or fix what has obviously been dysfunctional.
To expect a company to have a turn around there should be major change to leadership and way of doing business.
That last happened when they hired Dave Georgeson and under his reign things not only didn't turn around, they got progressively worse.
The question remains, what would possibly suggest this company is going to do better other than dumb luck?
-=2=-
You asked for an example and I not only gave you one, but gave you one that directly applies to the company we are discussing.
Then you say you know nothing about that game and in the same breath dismiss it as not being important enough to be relevant. This is typical of what you and others continue to do in order to ignore the situation just to find some way to remain positive.
There is no point giving you more examples as you will just downplay anything that doesn't boost the outlook of the game. NO offense intended, but that is pretty typical of the 2-3 ardent defenders of the game.
-=3=-
"You will believe it when you see it"
Isn't that exactly what you are arguing against people don't think the development process is doing well?
There is a terrible double standard that pops up way to often from a few here, sorry to point that out.
-=4=-
I'm pretty sure people hope it will turn out poorly like you continually suggest. You are just criticizing anyone that doesn't have your blind optimism as if they are somehow bad just for bad sake. Just because you do not understand why they are watching the game doesn't mean you get to diminish them for following or talking about the realities of the situation. Again this is a discussion forum and not a fan site.
When things start looking positive for the games development I expect the tone to change, but until that happens you have at accept the way things are.
-=5=-
Again, you asked for reasons why I think they might be revamping, scrapping or redesigning the game and I listed several very good ones.
You can try the typical downplay and ignore routine all you want, but there is some good information to suggest it is a very realistic possibility.
Edit: seeing that Columbus Nova cut 50% of the employees and cancelled the Storybricks support, I think we can say that yes the funding was most certainly cut. The only question is to what degree.
Lastly,
No one is being negative for negatives sake. Just because you don't like the negative issues surrounding the games development doesn't mean you can wish them away or tell others to not talk about it. Deal with it.
No one is being negative for negatives sake. Just because you don't like the negative issues surrounding the games development doesn't mean you can wish them away or tell others to not talk about it. Deal with it.
Are you sure about that last part? As a bystander (I don't give two hoots about EQN or EQ in general). Yet to say folks aren't being negative for negativity's sake is a bit silly to me. Look at most of your own posts on the subject. Almost everything you say on the SOE topic in general is an example of bringing the negative to simply bring the negative. At this point it looks like nothing more than an agenda.
I think most taking part in these discussions are aware of SOE's past, so an agenda of just "letting people know" is a bit disingenuous, so what other motivation is there to post as you do but to simply hate on SOE,SMed, Etc..? I just wish folks would be honest... if you dislike SOE/DB and want to aid in turning folks sour toward them, just F'n say so.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
No one is being negative for negatives sake. Just because you don't like the negative issues surrounding the games development doesn't mean you can wish them away or tell others to not talk about it. Deal with it.
Are you sure about that last part? As a bystander (I don't give two hoots about EQN or EQ in general). Yet to say folks aren't being negative for negativity's sake is a bit silly to me. Look at most of your own posts on the subject. Almost everything you say on the SOE topic in general is an example of bringing the negative to simply bring the negative. At this point it looks like nothing more than an agenda.
I think most taking part in these discussions are aware of SOE's past, so an agenda of just "letting people know" is a bit disingenuous, so what other motivation is there to post as you do but to simply hate on SOE,SMed, Etc..? I just wish folks would be honest... if you dislike SOE/DB and want to aid in turning folks sour toward them, just F'n say so.
Funny, but I see things in reverse as you.
A few fans tend to attack people who point out negative issues. Not debate the issues, but attack the people who post an opinion. Things like calling them ignorant, unreasonable, tell them to go away or just being negative as if there is no possible reason to have a poor outlook on how this games development is going.
That bothers me sometimes and I enjoy debating those issues with those people. No hidden agendas, no attempt to ruin a company or whatever you may think. I really don't think any one person can really aid is something like that by having discussions on a game discussion forum. At least me.
And just to point out, EQN hasn't had long periods of silence about its development. Twitch steam less than a week ago about EQN's development...
I am curious if you are referencing Workshop show #37
However episode 37 talked about 1 race for EQN and that is the big communication with the players?
That episode has been viewed a total of 62 times.... including 1 by me.
Honestly that show is little more than the developers talking about player made structures in a different game.
If the developers were really communicating like you suggest, then it would be a simple manner of pointing to the twitch show to give them what they desire. Even this sites biggest advocate of the show opens his posts by saying it isn't a show about EQN development.
Are you talking about some other twitch somewhere that has lots of EQN development news?
No one is being negative for negatives sake. Just because you don't like the negative issues surrounding the games development doesn't mean you can wish them away or tell others to not talk about it. Deal with it.
Are you sure about that last part? As a bystander (I don't give two hoots about EQN or EQ in general). Yet to say folks aren't being negative for negativity's sake is a bit silly to me. Look at most of your own posts on the subject. Almost everything you say on the SOE topic in general is an example of bringing the negative to simply bring the negative. At this point it looks like nothing more than an agenda.
I think most taking part in these discussions are aware of SOE's past, so an agenda of just "letting people know" is a bit disingenuous, so what other motivation is there to post as you do but to simply hate on SOE,SMed, Etc..? I just wish folks would be honest... if you dislike SOE/DB and want to aid in turning folks sour toward them, just F'n say so.
Funny, but I see things in reverse as you.
A few fans tend to attack people who point out negative issues. Not debate the issues, but attack the people who post an opinion. Things like calling them ignorant, unreasonable, tell them to go away or just being negative as if there is no possible reason to have a poor outlook on how this games development is going.
That bothers me sometimes and I enjoy debating those issues with those people. No hidden agendas, no attempt to ruin a company or whatever you may think. I really don't think any one person can really aid is something like that by having discussions on a game discussion forum. At least me.
Distopia got you spot on but you shift the blame to the fans of DGC and EQN. Ya we respond because you and a small few others turn every thread into the same hate topic. Recycling the same 3-5 comments over and over. You dont debate and if that what you think your doing, your lying to yourself. If you want to debate, pick a topic that matters like global warming. Fans of games just want to talk about their games and fun stuff. Other EQN fan forums talk about the toxic air of these forums because of people like you. Many saying they dont post here any more because of people just like you. You dont have a high road.
Fans of games just want to talk about their games and fun stuff. Other EQN fan forums talk about the toxic air of these forums because of people like you. Many saying they dont post here any more because of people just like you. You dont have a high road.
This is not an EQN fansite. There is your problem.
and you don't speak on behalf of the masses as you seem to think you do.
Fans of games just want to talk about their games and fun stuff. Other EQN fan forums talk about the toxic air of these forums because of people like you. Many saying they dont post here any more because of people just like you. You dont have a high road.
This is not an EQN fansite. There is your problem.
and you don't speak on behalf of the masses as you seem to think you do.
Keep on hating if it makes you feel better.
LOL, <<You have become better at dodging 1>> Even when you get hit your skill can still go up. Something I learned in EQ1.
Fans of games just want to talk about their games and fun stuff. Other EQN fan forums talk about the toxic air of these forums because of people like you. Many saying they dont post here any more because of people just like you. You dont have a high road.
This is not an EQN fansite. There is your problem.
and you don't speak on behalf of the masses as you seem to think you do.
Keep on hating if it makes you feel better.
LOL, <<>>
He speaks the truth, a fan forum of EQN on an mmorpg site which anyone is allowed to post in whether they support the game or not.
Can't handle it then move on to the main EQN site forum where it's all positive and rosy.
Comments
You keep resetting the development clock to 2012 as if that makes everything prior to that go away, well sorry it doesn't. That is the legacy of the development team, they failed on 5 years of work. How many times can they keep throwing out years of work before the idea needs to be addressed that this team may be incapable of making a game?
I'm pointing out that historically games that went through the development process and ended up as vaporware were projects that were in active development filled with developers promising they were working hard on their respective games. There came a point when those projects were never going to complete and it was long before they were officially cancelled.
The point being argued is if EQN has hit that point or not. It doesn't matter what the developers say, because historically their claims have not prevented any project from being vaporware. All they are claiming is intent.
I'm with you in the camp that thinks something called EQN will release, but if someone said to me that EQN is vaporware there is no plausible argument I could offer to say they are wrong.
At this point I can't even honestly say that the design you point to from 2012 is even the goal anymore. That is how shaky the team is talking about what they are doing and it all suggests they are either redesigning the game for how knows how many times now or cutting things they can't make work.
EQN as we know it started 2012, there's no getting around that no matter who worked on what when pr for how long. Could you even know if it was the exact same team down to the member?
If I get into beta, sure.
Never played EQ
Sway all day, butterfly flaps all the way!
I would argue that neither is "more RPG," because combat in these games is really the least RP part of the experience. When combat starts it becomes a different animal, and bears really no resemblance to RP situations as I would define them. If you mean RPG as in Final Fantasy or something like that then the other guy is right, and action is not RPG.
I think action combat has it's own merits, but I have never seen it be something that bolsters the immersion except maybe in Age of Conan.
If by "RPG" we're talking about playing the role of another character I would think that any mechanic that gives you more control over said character you're supposed to be playing would be better. I don't just see RP as a means of talking or emoting, it's the whole enchilada (though talk/emote is a big part). This is my view of course. My eventual want is to have VR helms and motions controllers so I have 100% control over my online avatar. I have a ways to wait though so in the meantime reticle combat is the closest thing.
Aside from that aspect I just can't play UI Simulator anymore, it's just boring. I can get the same type of gameplay from mobile game these days and it actually takes away another dimension of difficulty. Once spells/abilities are auto-locked the speed and movement of a mob becomes a nonfactor. I'd rather have reticle targeting for that added difficulty (mobs can still scale HP/Armor regardless) and a real need for CC.
I beg to differ. My usual characters are 'archers' of one sort or another. The 'back story' on the character would have included a long period of specialised training as well as keen eyesight and fast reflexes. They would be in their prime.
I however am none of these things, my reflexes are slowing I now wear glasses and I never more than dabbled in archery.
I expect the mechanics of the game to simulate the abilities of my character while I guide the narrative and engage with the story of the world.
Now it is fine for the players to want to play a game that involves reflexes and rapid decision making: but it is also fine for players to want something entirely different. Now we used to call that something different 'role playing'. For me the same thing applies to VR, if I want to run around being an archer or a swordsman ... well there is LARP for that. What I want is much more contained; sitting at my desk using a mouse and keyboard and looking at a screen.
I say neither is rpg because your archer has no choice but to fire arrow with LMB, powerup arrow with RMB, or choose from a bunch of specials that have really nothing to do with archery (shot breaks armor and de-buffs power of enemy). If you were doing TTRPG or LARP the character has some ability to react in the situation and the test of their ability has a lot of factors. Games really suck at mimicking that. You will do the same shot every time, and though the character does it for you, it's really just too simple and same to be interesting in that way. Compound that with the fact that you will be loosing a tremendous amount of arrows over time in your deathless life as a graphic, and there is no real drama to it. Action archery is little different, as it will just vary the need to hit the button at different cues, and possibly allow you to miss (which is admittedly a step in the right direction).
Combat is RP if it is about tension from meaningful death, and if it has some element of conflict.
I have played too many MMORPGs to believe that either of those qualities exist much in the video games that replaced TTRPGs. I think it's totally possible to have fun in the way you describe, but to me it's not RP is all.
Hehe, that forum post is now hilarious in context because it wasn't even close, though it was a shot in the dark anyways. At least this way we will actually get a new EverQuest. If they had chosen the 100k themepark special I doubt it would have survived the split from Sony. It wouldn't have provided enough distinction in the market to warrant continuation IMO.
Normally I dont say no to a video game till I have seen reviews or played it. To each their own =-)
-=1=-
The company as a whole is the same company it was prior to 2012. It goes unspoken that there will be employee turnover in any company, but overall SOE (and their teams) are the same as it was for years and years now. The culture is the same, the leadership is the same and the results are the same. Pointing out a few new faces here and there doesn't change that.
Tossing out years of work may technically reset the clock, but it doesn't reset everything else that lead up to the point where all that work resulted in failure. What has really changed that would lead anyone to believe the same results will not happen with the new design?
For example: You keep offering that the MMO market evolved while EQN was being developed as a reason why that work was thrown out. The MMO market isn't going to stop evolving, so what is going to give the same team some new ability to correctly predict their new design will end up being something they want?
See the point?
-=2=-
This one is easy. SOE - The Agency.
Smed and company insisted the game was being worked on. Even after the top leadership from the project left the company. It too was a game that had long periods of silence about its development, but SOE promised it was going well... until they announced it was cancelled.
Good enough example for you?
-=3=-
Notice I said I don't think it is vaporware, so I'm not sure why you are yelling at me for what others think.
To answer your question: I have no idea where the magical line is that makes something vaporware, but one thing is for sure: it will happen long before you or I know about it. Which is why I think pointing to developers promising they are still working (but not showing) the game is not proof that a game isn't vaporware.
-=4=-
The point is that vaporware happens, despite developers best intentions. I don' think it really matters if the developers are being truthful or lying about their efforts.
Also where you find reasons to believe the game exists and will release, others do not. That doesn't make you right, but hopeful. Unfortunately most of the information available is suggests it may not turn out well.
-=5=-
The lead designer was fired? The company was sold? Storybricks partnership was cancelled? The teams efforts have been thrown out multiple times?
Just listen to how the team was talking during the damage control podcast after the buyout. The language used really suggests they have been sent back to the drawing board. I'm not talking a total revamp, but they are "seeing what makes sense" moving forward. I think they no longer have infinite time and resources and have to make choices about what they can make work and what they have to get rid of.
So yes I do think they have done thing and said things that suggest they are again going backwards or changing.
Judging a companies potential based on their very long and established efforts is a sensible thing to do. Having doubts after seeing the trainwreck this games development is going through is a rational reaction.
That may ruffle your feathers, but that doesn't mean everyone needs to put on blinders and pretend everything is fine just to hope that maybe the game turns out great. It can still defy all odds without putting your head in the sand.
When was the last time we honestly heard of saw anything meaningful about EQN? Seriouslly.. and DON"T say "building Qeynos" in Landmark.. That is vaporbs.. LOL Do we know anything more about classes? Do we know anything more about spells and skills? Do we know anything more about the infamous awesome "NEW" AI yet? etc etc.. Silence is deafening.. lol
I agree the system is just a corner cutting system,something i see SOE full in on is corner cutting and speedy releases.
I guess i can't full on blame just SOLE,even my square Enix cut a lot of corners building FFXIV to the point i have lost all interest in anything further by Square.NONE of the big three are making anything triple A ,it is all corner cutting,instances and very simple linear game play.The ONLY thiong gamer's do in games is race to end game for end game loot,it really tells us that devs are not making FULL GAMES anymore,just end games,so about 2% of a game.
The only reason this unfinished game is not already out as a nearly access game is because their small staff that diddles in the game in between other cash grabs,has not got anything worthwhile done yet.Generated world, a licensed Voxel Farm a few tools,not enough else to say they have a large full time team on this game.I watched the one dev corner and all they could show us from their TEAM was a door and a few real cheap textures,i almost fell out of my chair in disbelief,it was like the effort of one man in a few days,not a team.
To me SOE is now an Indie developer pretending to be a big boy and with below average customer support to boot,they are simply looking for gimmicks on quick cash grabs.I am expecting a 4-5/10 release on Next ,nothing more.Will that be good enough to a lot of gamer's?Hard to tell,i saw a lot of support for H1Z1 release that was like a 2/10 release,i see tons supporting Minecraft a blocky 8 bit game,so i guess people now a days will support anything and i have seen some REAL bad games being supported.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
-=1=-
You are nitpicking. This is still the same company run by the same people using the same culture and processes as it has been for over a decade By their own words nothing has changed, the plans are still the same and the new owners are hands off.
Why then would anyone expect their results to be any different than the last 10 years? That is the reality of the situation.
It is meaningless that a few new faces are there, especially when the ones leading the downward spiral are still in charge and half of the team is gone (again).
The point is no major changes have been made in order to rebuild the company or fix what has obviously been dysfunctional.
To expect a company to have a turn around there should be major change to leadership and way of doing business.
That last happened when they hired Dave Georgeson and under his reign things not only didn't turn around, they got progressively worse.
The question remains, what would possibly suggest this company is going to do better other than dumb luck?
-=2=-
You asked for an example and I not only gave you one, but gave you one that directly applies to the company we are discussing.
Then you say you know nothing about that game and in the same breath dismiss it as not being important enough to be relevant. This is typical of what you and others continue to do in order to ignore the situation just to find some way to remain positive.
There is no point giving you more examples as you will just downplay anything that doesn't boost the outlook of the game. NO offense intended, but that is pretty typical of the 2-3 ardent defenders of the game.
-=3=-
"You will believe it when you see it"
Isn't that exactly what you are arguing against people don't think the development process is doing well?
There is a terrible double standard that pops up way to often from a few here, sorry to point that out.
-=4=-
I'm pretty sure people hope it will turn out poorly like you continually suggest. You are just criticizing anyone that doesn't have your blind optimism as if they are somehow bad just for bad sake. Just because you do not understand why they are watching the game doesn't mean you get to diminish them for following or talking about the realities of the situation. Again this is a discussion forum and not a fan site.
When things start looking positive for the games development I expect the tone to change, but until that happens you have at accept the way things are.
-=5=-
Again, you asked for reasons why I think they might be revamping, scrapping or redesigning the game and I listed several very good ones.
You can try the typical downplay and ignore routine all you want, but there is some good information to suggest it is a very realistic possibility.
Edit: seeing that Columbus Nova cut 50% of the employees and cancelled the Storybricks support, I think we can say that yes the funding was most certainly cut. The only question is to what degree.
Lastly,
No one is being negative for negatives sake. Just because you don't like the negative issues surrounding the games development doesn't mean you can wish them away or tell others to not talk about it. Deal with it.
Are you sure about that last part? As a bystander (I don't give two hoots about EQN or EQ in general). Yet to say folks aren't being negative for negativity's sake is a bit silly to me. Look at most of your own posts on the subject. Almost everything you say on the SOE topic in general is an example of bringing the negative to simply bring the negative. At this point it looks like nothing more than an agenda.
I think most taking part in these discussions are aware of SOE's past, so an agenda of just "letting people know" is a bit disingenuous, so what other motivation is there to post as you do but to simply hate on SOE,SMed, Etc..? I just wish folks would be honest... if you dislike SOE/DB and want to aid in turning folks sour toward them, just F'n say so.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Funny, but I see things in reverse as you.
A few fans tend to attack people who point out negative issues. Not debate the issues, but attack the people who post an opinion. Things like calling them ignorant, unreasonable, tell them to go away or just being negative as if there is no possible reason to have a poor outlook on how this games development is going.
That bothers me sometimes and I enjoy debating those issues with those people. No hidden agendas, no attempt to ruin a company or whatever you may think. I really don't think any one person can really aid is something like that by having discussions on a game discussion forum. At least me.
I am curious if you are referencing Workshop show #37
However episode 37 talked about 1 race for EQN and that is the big communication with the players?
That episode has been viewed a total of 62 times.... including 1 by me.
Honestly that show is little more than the developers talking about player made structures in a different game.
If the developers were really communicating like you suggest, then it would be a simple manner of pointing to the twitch show to give them what they desire. Even this sites biggest advocate of the show opens his posts by saying it isn't a show about EQN development.
Are you talking about some other twitch somewhere that has lots of EQN development news?
Distopia got you spot on but you shift the blame to the fans of DGC and EQN. Ya we respond because you and a small few others turn every thread into the same hate topic. Recycling the same 3-5 comments over and over. You dont debate and if that what you think your doing, your lying to yourself. If you want to debate, pick a topic that matters like global warming. Fans of games just want to talk about their games and fun stuff. Other EQN fan forums talk about the toxic air of these forums because of people like you. Many saying they dont post here any more because of people just like you. You dont have a high road.
This is not an EQN fansite. There is your problem.
and you don't speak on behalf of the masses as you seem to think you do.
Keep on hating if it makes you feel better.
LOL, <<You have become better at dodging 1>> Even when you get hit your skill can still go up. Something I learned in EQ1.
He speaks the truth, a fan forum of EQN on an mmorpg site which anyone is allowed to post in whether they support the game or not.
Can't handle it then move on to the main EQN site forum where it's all positive and rosy.