You seem to be operating on the assumption that fans of the game only post positive things and anyone else isn't. Sorry, but you do not get to define everyone else just because they talk about things you do not want to read.
Can you point out some "fans" that are posting negatively? You are correct I can't say who is or isn't a fan, but when someone straight out says they don't like what is planned for the game, it's features, the company behind it, the development process, etc, I'm not sure how they could be "fans." Being a fan of the EQ franchise or another game in it, doesn't mean they are automatically fans of EQN itself.
"I hate everything about the project but I'm still a fan" maybe this is true for some, but seems odd all the same.
Since the company has closed down the official forums, there are limited avenues to discuss the game. you do not get to tell people to stop, because you don't like what they are talking about. People are talking about the obvious, because they don't want to talk about delusional speculation in order to find some way to believe they are being positive or constructive.
I'm not telling anyone to stop. Simply pointing out what a waste of time being negative is or at least in the non constructive form most take. Coming into a forum to go "The art sucks!" adds what? Going "I want combat to be like X instead of Y" adds what?
How many more "EQN is canceled" or "EQN will be a pile of poo" threads/comments are needed?
Don't need to blindly agree with the direction they are going in, but seems silly to keep complaining about what is currently the design. Especially on a forum that has no dev interaction. If "fans" really cared, they'd make it known in constructive ways.
You asked if I would talk about Overwatch on the obvious on blizzard forums and the answer is yes. Overwatch will probably be awesome, smooth, well polished, etc. Would I use the canceled Titan project to suggest overwatch will fail, no.
But what if I really really really wanted Titan to succeed? I'm so upset that they are making a lobby FPS type game instead of a mmorpg. It just isn't fair! /s
I've seen few okay with them going with EQN instead of EQ3, even if it was to turn out decent. I see many simply angry/upset that DB isn't making the game they wanted, period.
Might of been my point (I get lost in my walls of text), but do you believe and or call out Blizzard for basically failing at making another mmorpg? Like those that call out SOE/DB for having to scrap the next EQ game multiple times to get to a design they see a future with?
What I see is you excusing that failure because the end result will still be good, despite it not being what was intended or what people were hoping for. Doesn't seem very "fair" regardless of company history.
You don't seem to understand why though. Blizzard has a long history of delivering games that are well designed, polished and receive critical acclaim or even record setting success. SOE has a long history of releasing games unfinished, poorly designed and suffer heavy decline and/or close down entirely. You act like people should ignore blizzards success and SOE failures, because they are obvious?
Yet you still come here expecting something different? Makes sense...
If SOE/DB is such a terrible company with such a troubled past and to top it off is now making a mutilated version of what "EQ fans" would consider an "EQ" game, why bother?
I agree with your comparison of Blizzard and SOE. Yet still give companies the benefit of the doubt. If they screw EQN up, won't be a surprise at all. But if it actually is good (to me), I'll be pleasantly surprised.
Despite all their downs, EQ was fun while I played it. Clearly others continue to enjoy it and EQ2 despite all that has happened. PS and especially PS2 were/are enjoyable. DCUO is decent. H1Z1 has potential. SWG was what it was for a time. SOE/DB has one of the longest track records and much of that is "losing." Yet I have no logical reason to not want them to succeed. No personal satisfaction will come of it. I don't want to see them burn, close down, go bankrupt, etc.
I've pretty much given up on PVE focused games, but EQN could change my mind. If not, oh well.
I think most here have accepted how EQN is being developer, but you don't want to hear about it.
Guess I just don't understand the need to continue this "EQN sucks!" "I know, high five!" conversation. Do they really need to be kicked repeatedly while already down? Seems rather petty.
When people have the option to post something constructive about a game they like or could like (positive or negative), post nothing at all, or post something overly negative about a game they don't like or have intention of playing, the option choice sort of paints the individual a certain way.
Same is probably true for people like me that mainly stick to games that we have an interest in, that find some entertainment value/potential in, and that we want to succeed.
Neither is right or wrong and everyone is free to say what they want, but I'm glad I'm not full of so much negativity about a hobby that I go to for good times.
You are asking about fans posting negatively about EQN... well I AM a fan. I loved EQ and I love EQ2. I am also betaing Landmark. If Landmark is any indication, I don't have much hope for EQN. Am I a fan of it? No, because it hasn't been released yet and it isn't in its final form. And we know NOTHING about EQN at this point other than a few tiny things. EQN has been in development for many many years with no release date in sight. Why should anyone be a fan of it just because it has the name Everquest attached to it? After this long, its ok to post negatively about a game, especially when you've been backstabbed by lying developers as long as most of us on here who keep trying to paint their game as gods gift to gaming and yet it never is.
There is a reason people keep going back to the old games. EQ, EQ2, WoW, DAoC, and why games like Ultima and the like still have loyal and beloved followers after all this time. Because they were released as complete games. We weren't given only a them park pve, pvp, and raiding games like we are now. We weren't thrown "token housing" and told "we will expand it later" like in LOTRO. The worlds are HUGE to explore, and more keeps being added to them, not just more raids. There are literally thousands of items in these games, and a great deal of lore and there was when they were released. Heck, EQ2 has a mini game for crafting that none of any of the games released in at least the last 5 years do, and probably the best housing since SWG closed down.
Are we entitled to feel negatively? You bet we are. Most devs and publishers stopped listening to what the players want years ago, and started paying attention to the facebook games instead.
Do I hold hope for any game currently said to eventually be released? A bit. Do I trust that they will do what they say they will? Nope.
So negatively? You bet there are fans posting negatively. And they have the right to do that until we are all shown proof that it's not just going to be another wow copy with different graphics and a gimmick. They want me to believe they will give me more and that I should pay for a game? Then I say they need to prove it.
So negatively? You bet there are fans posting negatively. And they have the right to do that until we are all shown proof that it's not just going to be another wow copy with different graphics and a gimmick. They want me to believe they will give me more and that I should pay for a game? Then I say they need to prove it.
I didn't find much of this to be negative or out of context. Unlike a lot of what others have been posting.
Maybe the "god's gift" part, really don't see devs selling their games this way.
Saying you have doubts and what not is not being "negative."
Saying the game is a failure because art style, isn't "EQ", action combat, or best of all is canceled are more of long the lines of what I consider negative for the sake of it. Those aren't problems/issues, those are personal preferences and unfounded views.
Having a cautious view is logical and where anyone that has interest or considers themselves to be a "fan" should be at.
As I said above, I wouldn't be surprised if EQN was canceled or turned out to be nothing like what was promised or at least not up to the quality I'm hoping for. Doesn't mean I have any need to trash talk the overall design or how development is being handled. I want the game to be the best it can be, just like all games.
Unlike "fans" that moan and complain on here, I've actually attempted to contact DB to get some idea of what is going on. Surprise surprise, they answer. Not with exactly what I want to hear, but enough to keep a bit of hope going.
Crowfall is my current main game of interest. Why? Because they are going back to some older concepts (UO, Shadowbane, SWG, strategy/board games, etc). So I understand those longing for "old school" PVE experiences.
Unfortunately, games and the market are moving forward and unless they incorporate features that will pull in new blood (along with the old), they will have a very hard up hill battle.
Regardless, EQN is what it is and those that don't want, need, like it that state this in whatever way aren't doing anyone favors.
Until there is actually something new of substance to talk about, I understand conversations tend to be negative and what not. Only out of boredom and annoyance do I respond to such pointless comments from some on here. Hopefully they show/say something sooner or later.
Time to take another break from this forum and or this site. I get the itch, but then realize I shouldn't scratch it lol.
When people have the option to post something constructive about a game they like or could like (positive or negative), post nothing at all, or post something overly negative about a game they don't like or have intention of playing, the option choice sort of paints the individual a certain way.
Same is probably true for people like me that mainly stick to games that we have an interest in, that find some entertainment value/potential in, and that we want to succeed.
Neither is right or wrong and everyone is free to say what they want, but I'm glad I'm not full of so much negativity about a hobby that I go to for good times.
I've always held the adage that any constructive opinion is valid, but there is the emphasis on constructive. I know, the 'netz' and all but I honestly don't make that distinction and act the same way I would if having a face to face. Whether in real life or the interwebs those constantly complaining get annoying along with the sensational gossipers for attention and self-relevance. I personally don't mind what posting as a fan makes me look like because I find no thrill in bad-mouthing a title I have no vested interest in. There are a handful of games I could do that with, and have a field day, but not only is it not worth my time but why go out of my way to do things I know will aggravate fans of that title?
In the end I guess all kinds are needed, it adds color to the painting. I say this because in reality EQN could release, be a solid MMO, and people could still find something wrong with it. It's an art form. So, with that in mind, I can't wait to see what DGC releases and I have a very good feeling they'll bring what has been needed in MMOs for a while. If I get the time I may even start a thread on it.
You seem to be operating on the assumption that fans of the game only post positive things and anyone else isn't. Sorry, but you do not get to define everyone else just because they talk about things you do not want to read.
Can you point out some "fans" that are posting negatively? You are correct I can't say who is or isn't a fan, but when someone straight out says they don't like what is planned for the game, it's features, the company behind it, the development process, etc, I'm not sure how they could be "fans." YOU just reaffirmed that "fans" do not complain about things they are fans of, so Daff's comment is accurate..
"I hate everything about the project but I'm still a fan" maybe this is true for some, but seems odd all the same. (read above)
Since the company has closed down the official forums, there are limited avenues to discuss the game. you do not get to tell people to stop, because you don't like what they are talking about. People are talking about the obvious, because they don't want to talk about delusional speculation in order to find some way to believe they are being positive or constructive.
I'm not telling anyone to stop. Simply pointing out what a waste of time being negative is or at least in the non constructive form most take. Coming into a forum to go "The art sucks!" adds what? Going "I want combat to be like X instead of Y" adds what?There have been plenty of constructive threads addressing the complaints of EQ fans, which you have excused and ignored ALL of them.. Even to the point of telling those fans to "get over it and move on"..
How many more "EQN is canceled" or "EQN will be a pile of poo" threads/comments are needed? Probably as many as there are threads about how great it will be, that doesn't even physically exist.. Praising hype is NOT constructive.. FYI
Don't need to blindly agree with the direction they are going in, but seems silly to keep complaining about what is currently the design. Especially on a forum that has no dev interaction. If "fans" really cared, they'd make it known in constructive ways. OH trust me.. Daybreak is "watching" these threads.. If you think gaming companies ONLY read their own forums, you are being naive.. As for dev interaction comment, OMFG, most of the threads on their own forums were ignored by devs..
You asked if I would talk about Overwatch on the obvious on blizzard forums and the answer is yes. Overwatch will probably be awesome, smooth, well polished, etc. Would I use the canceled Titan project to suggest overwatch will fail, no.
But what if I really really really wanted Titan to succeed? I'm so upset that they are making a lobby FPS type game instead of a mmorpg. It just isn't fair! /s Not even the same thing honestly.. ONE, I don't think anyone even knew what Titan was designed to be.. I know I had no clue if it was a MMO version of Starcraft, or some Zombie game, or whatever.. I don't recall Blizzard making any announcement whatsoever introducing us to this new next-gen game of awesomeness like Georgie Porgie did at SOE Live.. I'm a big Blizzard fan, and I'm not happy about the announcement of Overwatch.. I have no plans to play it.. oh well..
You don't seem to understand why though. Blizzard has a long history of delivering games that are well designed, polished and receive critical acclaim or even record setting success. SOE has a long history of releasing games unfinished, poorly designed and suffer heavy decline and/or close down entirely. You act like people should ignore blizzards success and SOE failures, because they are obvious?
Yet you still come here expecting something different? Makes sense...
Guess I just don't understand the need to continue this "EQN sucks!" "I know, high five!" conversation. Do they really need to be kicked repeatedly while already down? Seems rather petty.
When people have the option to post something constructive about a game they like or could like (positive or negative), post nothing at all, or post something overly negative about a game they don't like or have intention of playing, the option choice sort of paints the individual a certain way.
Same is probably true for people like me that mainly stick to games that we have an interest in, that find some entertainment value/potential in, and that we want to succeed.
Neither is right or wrong and everyone is free to say what they want, but I'm glad I'm not full of so much negativity about a hobby that I go to for good times.
As I have said already in this thread.. Many times constructive post were made addressing problems EQN is facing and creating, and you and others have ignored each and every one of them.. Often responding saying we have no clue what we are talking about.. etc etc.. EQN along with the engine Daybreak is using has MANY limitations, and it has been asked many times on the official forums (before they canned them) and here how those problems will effect gameplay.. SILENCE..
In my world, when important questions are asked and they are ignored, it normally means the company or person is dodging the issue in hopes it just goes away.. Just like a politician.. Prior to the buyout there were HUGE issues that needed to be addressed, especially with Storybricks, and there was never a response from the devs or anyone with inside knowledge..
ONE last thing.. I take it you have never been a sports FAN? I have been all my life, and FANS love to complain and address likes and dislikes of what they support.. SHIT.. I'm from the Cleveland area.. Look how we treat LeBron James.. Love him, Hate him, Love him again.. lmaooo Then we have the Browns.. Seriously the Browns are one of the biggest and most vocal fans in the world.. Johnny Football is a HUGE BUST draft pick along with countless others.. As a FAN, I bitch non-stop about the Browns choices.. Being a FAN of anything is a love/hate relationship..
As I have said already in this thread.. Many times constructive post were made addressing problems EQN is facing and creating, and you and others have ignored each and every one of them.. Often responding saying we have no clue what we are talking about.. etc etc.. EQN along with the engine Daybreak is using has MANY limitations, and it has been asked many times on the official forums (before they canned them) and here how those problems will effect gameplay.. SILENCE..
In my world, when important questions are asked and they are ignored, it normally means the company or person is dodging the issue in hopes it just goes away.. Just like a politician.. Prior to the buyout there were HUGE issues that needed to be addressed, especially with Storybricks, and there was never a response from the devs or anyone with inside knowledge..
I'll agree that there were more constructive posts early on, but due to the lack of feedback for specifics, most conversations have turned into doom and gloom, trash talking, or pointless ones that I make in response to those.
What "problems" is EQN creating or facing that have been solved by armchair devs or that actually need a response from the real devs about? Do people really need that "it's okay timmy, we promise it will work" reassurance to feel better?
As I said above, many have pointed out the obvious issues that development and the company have and are facing. Yet some continue to kick them while they are down. I just don't see the joy in doing such. Seem rather vindictive in some ways. I personally don't have such passion towards a video game company.
ONE last thing.. I take it you have never been a sports FAN? I have been all my life, and FANS love to complain and address likes and dislikes of what they support.. SHIT.. I'm from the Cleveland area.. Look how we treat LeBron James.. Love him, Hate him, Love him again.. lmaooo Then we have the Browns.. Seriously the Browns are one of the biggest and most vocal fans in the world.. Johnny Football is a HUGE BUST draft pick along with countless others.. As a FAN, I bitch non-stop about the Browns choices.. Being a FAN of anything is a love/hate relationship..
Not a huge sports fan myself, but I live in San Diego, so I understand.
As I've pointed out though, to me there is a difference. I'm assuming you want your home teams to be better and to win. Despite all the odds stacked against you or whatever. If an owner, gm, coach, player decisions and actions anger you, deep down you still want good to come of everything.
This is not what I'm seeing from the majority of folks posting here with negativity. Not much "It looks like crap, but I hope it turns out good." There are some, but many are simply "looks like garbage, hope they fail." I don't get wanting a company/product to fail just to make the individual achieve some satisfaction.
Being a fan is a love/hate relationship, but when the love is gone and it is hate/animosity/anger/disgust instead, think the "fan" element has gone away a bit. When someone wants to see a product burn and or close down, that line has been erased and the hate has won the battle. Might be time to walk away.
I look at it sort of like the Star Wars prequels. Many absolutely hate them and some have given up all hope on the future of the franchise. Where others might dislike the prequels or just don't care for them, but are hoping the future movies and franchise expansion bring back some of the original magic.
I've seen people say "stop trying, the franchise is dead." Which is just so sad. I want them new movies, shows, comics, games, etc to be a great as they can and to erase the prequels from my mind.
For me this is similar for the EQ franchise. I really enjoyed EQ, but the changes that came and EQ2 are not what I want the franchise to end as for me. EQN on paper could bring some of that magic back. Not going to hold my breathe, but I'm still going to hold some hope that it happens.
They are most likely never going to make a game similar to original EQ. All I can look forward to is a new direction and design that may hold enough connection to the franchise that I enjoy.
What is a train wreck? Something that is beyond repair? A total disaster? Something that isn't going exactly as planned or wanted?
That is the facts^, given it's 7+ history. Just because another game may be in jeopardy too, or is another train wreck doesn't dismiss the fact that EQN is. You are essentially saying, if it is OK for brand X to have a lusy product, so why complain about Everquest too..?
I'm not trying to make excuses, but pointing out that rarely if ever do things go smoothly and that all the animosity towards DB & EQN seems blind to this. Heck, even in SOE's case, this isn't anything new. Why people would be surprised or upset that they are basically doing the norm is strange to me. Especially when people point it out. Yourself, pointing out that this "train wreck" has been going on for 7 years. At what point do you step away and stop pointing out the obvious? Or is it your duty to continue on for those to blinded by their deep love and admiration for a company with such a history?
You are laughable and come across delusional and fanatical.
Really? Saying I don't agree or like what they are doing makes me fanatical? Might want to relearn what those mean. If not jumping on the hate wagon makes me delusional, oh well. I'll live.
You pander like that^, because it is how you handle anything tossed at you. So, nobody here on these forums can take you seriously or as real person anymore, because nobody would be that protective of Daybreak Game Company, while filling a forum with so much pork..
Well I'm glad you speak for everyone, but still, I'll live. I'm not being protective or at least that's not what I'm trying to come across as. I have many issues with how they are handling things, I simply am willing to ride it out and see the final result. I also want the product to succeed. Unlike many who seem to want yet another game to crash and burn (train wreck?) because it isn't what they demand. "If I can't have what I want, no one can!" This is what I'm seeing from some.
Face the facts: A majority of the EQ community no longer support EQN and have moved on to other projects, because those other projects have more transparency, competency and respect for their given community. The ONLY people who support EQn/LM are newbies who like to pretend they own things.
I haven't been a part of the "EQ community" since 03 or so. EQN isn't being made FOR the "EQ community" only. Everyone is free to enjoy it or not, but the current version is aimed at a larger demographic of diverse gamers. If wanting EQN to succeed makes me a newbie, oh well.
Hopefully Pantheon works out for you and those longing to be transported back in time. That's the difference. I want Pantheon to do well, despite my doubts. But I have no need to go to the Pantheon forum and go on about how I want XYZ which have nothing to do with the design. "I want full loop PVP" or "I want grinding WoW like raiding" or whatever feature that has nothing to do with it. I accept games for what they are and follow those that interest me.
If you and the "EQ community" have moved on, why are you wasting your time here pointing out the obvious?
No MMORPG player wants anything to do with LM, (or EQn).
As a MMORPG player I prove this statement to be false. Statements such as this are pretty silly.
LOL, you are part of the train wreck.
My friend, there is no need to respond as nobody takes your tripe seriously anymore. You are essentially asking people to ignore the obvious, because somehow you know something hidden and unseen that others do not. Others who have been around a lot longer, & with more presence than you.
You are essentially entertainment here & we are laughing at your very-trying posts. When you come around to reality it will be too late for your to grab credibility. You have not based any of your arguments on facts, just fanatical & wishful thinking.
Honestly dude, what adult is going to actually PAY for playing Landmark, or PAY for a MMORPG based on Landmark's silly graphics..? None, that is why it was going to be FREE and for children. But the trinket game is drying up, as kids are burnt out on trinket spending and John Smedley is going to have to move EQn upscale... but that doesn't work when you based the game on non-EQ players, and instead focused on newbie Children.
I love how things can be "obvouous" when the only knowledagble source on the subject is the developer. Some people are so angry and invested in seeing EQN fail it's hilarious.
Is it a train wreck? From outside the box we can't know and disliking the subjective facets of the titles doesn't count.
Is it vaporware? Well, CN only cut a few positions for EQN/LM while cutting out the entire section of DGC because the positions weren't about games. What does that say? That they don't mind 20-30 positions sitting there pulling a ruse on the players. Have we become that paranoid?
If someone doesn't like the combat, art direction, voxel world of EQN that's fine. Why claim unknowable things just to vent about a company and pester it's fans? Move along.
My friend, there is no need to respond as nobody takes your tripe seriously anymore. You are essentially asking people to ignore the obvious, because somehow you know something hidden and unseen that others do not. Others who have been around a lot longer, & with more presence than you.
You are essentially entertainment here & we are laughing at your very-trying posts. When you come around to reality it will be too late for your to grab credibility. You have not based any of your arguments on facts, just fanatical & wishful thinking.
Honestly dude, what adult is going to actually PAY for playing Landmark, or PAY for a MMORPG based on Landmark's silly graphics..? None, that is why it was going to be FREE and for children. But the trinket game is drying up, as kids are burnt out on trinket spending and John Smedley is going to have to move EQn upscale... but that doesn't work when you based the game on non-EQ players, and instead focused on newbie Children.
Yawn, bring something besides personal attacks to the conversation. I'm not claiming to know anything more than anyone else or to ignore what is available. Just stating my opinion that I believe it is silly to trash talk a company/product that one has little to no interest in.
I'm sure you've been around much longer than I and your presence is much greater...sigh, next you'll be telling me you are a pro? Although with your use of newbie, I'm guessing you are actually an adult, a bit out of touch, but an adult all the same.
If adults pay for WoW, Minecraft, Lego games, Mario and Candy Crush, pretty sure they'd pay for LM/EQN as well. Didn't realize we were talking about products or a genre for adults only.
But if I'm a newbie, guess you are a disgruntled nostalgia blinded vet. Name calling is so mature.
I'll agree that there were more constructive posts early on, but due to the lack of feedback for specifics, most conversations have turned into doom and gloom, trash talking, or pointless ones that I make in response to those.
What "problems" is EQN creating or facing that have been solved by armchair devs or that actually need a response from the real devs about? Do people really need that "it's okay timmy, we promise it will work" reassurance to feel better?
As I said above, many have pointed out the obvious issues that development and the company have and are facing. Yet some continue to kick them while they are down. I just don't see the joy in doing such. Seem rather vindictive in some ways. I personally don't have such passion towards a video game company.
This really demonstrates your cheerleader mentality about this game.
What exactly do you mean by kicking the company when it is down? You act like people need to ignore all the problems and rally around the developers to help them with positive views. You have said these comments don't bother you, but obviously they do.
I'm just not sure what you think is constructive or positive about turning a blind eye towards the situation the company and game are in, just to dream up unrealistic situations in order to grasp at anything positive to talk about. It makes no sense.
Yawn, bring something besides personal attacks to the conversation. I'm not claiming to know anything more than anyone else or to ignore what is available. Just stating my opinion that I believe it is silly to trash talk a company/product that one has little to no interest in.
This. You have concluded that anyone talking about the problems is somehow not interested. You don't get to define what people are or are not interested in.
The very fact that people are on the forum discussing the game means they have some level of interest.
And you do often claim to know more than other people. There are several times where you have said you are some super fan that follows the game closer than others and they don't know what they are talking about, because they don't like the way the game is turning out.
If there are problems on the development side you don't know about them. Taking longer than planned doesn't count as it can be explained by other things. That's what Allien, and myself, are referring to. Armchair devs that think they know so much about MMOs and their development they're making claims as though they're in project management positions. To me it's pointless unless one has a vested interest in seeing EQN fail, or not constructive.
Also, Allien had posted more links to revelent information than anyone else here. Some people aren't interested in that it seems because they don't trust the source anyway. The only other option is to consult the disgruntled vet hive mind. Kidding about that but there seems to be a pattern.
My friend, there is no need to respond as nobody takes your tripe seriously anymore. You are essentially asking people to ignore the obvious, because somehow you know something hidden and unseen that others do not. Others who have been around a lot longer, & with more presence than you.
You are essentially entertainment here & we are laughing at your very-trying posts. When you come around to reality it will be too late for your to grab credibility. You have not based any of your arguments on facts, just fanatical & wishful thinking.
Honestly dude, what adult is going to actually PAY for playing Landmark, or PAY for a MMORPG based on Landmark's silly graphics..? None, that is why it was going to be FREE and for children. But the trinket game is drying up, as kids are burnt out on trinket spending and John Smedley is going to have to move EQn upscale... but that doesn't work when you based the game on non-EQ players, and instead focused on newbie Children.
Yawn, bring something besides personal attacks to the conversation. I'm not claiming to know anything more than anyone else or to ignore what is available. Just stating my opinion that I believe it is silly to trash talk a company/product that one has little to no interest in.
I'm sure you've been around much longer than I and your presence is much greater...sigh, next you'll be telling me you are a pro? Although with your use of newbie, I'm guessing you are actually an adult, a bit out of touch, but an adult all the same.
If adults pay for WoW, Minecraft, Lego games, Mario and Candy Crush, pretty sure they'd pay for LM/EQN as well. Didn't realize we were talking about products or a genre for adults only.
But if I'm a newbie, guess you are a disgruntled nostalgia blinded vet. Name calling is so mature.
Sorry, where do I personally attack anyone..? I have simply used your logic against you, to illustrate how disingenuous you are with calling people "negative".
So, when the facts are indeed negative and someone mentions them... you want people stop. Because you are on a crusade to protect the feelings of Daybreak employees..? Why can't people point out the many things that are wrong? Because you feel bad for someone.? Because you want to protect someone from hurt feelings? What is your motive to incessantly argue with people who point out how badly this project is being developed..? You get paid for every ego your protect..?
Most EQ players are in the mid to late 30s and older.
They own things like houses and cars and don't mind spending on the MMORPG. SOE/Daybreak/ is not trying to make a game for the adults who attended, SOE was instead trying to make a game for people who could not afford a MMORPG, (namely children and kids). Did you see the faces of all the people who attended SOE LIVE 2013 during the EQn reveal? There was many, many confused adults in the room.
Was John Smedley making a game for us attendees, our our kids? (EverQuest = a FREE cartoon game?) (Thank you John)
If there are problems on the development side you don't know about them. Taking longer than planned doesn't count as it can be explained by other things. That's what Allien, and myself, are referring to. Armchair devs that think they know so much about MMOs and their development they're making claims as though they're in project management positions. To me it's pointless unless one has a vested interest in seeing EQN fail, or not constructive.
When the developers themselves admit they created and scapped two versions of the game, yes there are problems.
You trying to turn design failure into "taking longer than planned" is just being disingenuous.
Notice that no one is claiming to know the exact specifics of the problems, but there are most certainly problems and you trying to paint anyone that discusses those as wanting the game to fail is just thin skinned fanboyish defenses.
I think a lot of people would love nothing more than a great EQN game, but people have looked at everything surrounding the game and company and they are not convinced that is going to happen. Allien seems to want them to be quiet, because..... the team needs hugs instead of honest feedback?
Its context, I keep saying this. You seem to think they scrapped the first two iterations because of failed development. How do you know that? Can you not even entertain the idea that they may have decided the voxel world sandbox direction was a better option? The rumor was that two iterations were designed at the same time and the current EQN won out. I will be the first to admit EQN could end up being a disaster but until I see that, or a reasonable indication of it, why fuss so much? Why assume the worst case scenario? Oh yeah, so I won't have my head in the sand? Hehe, we're all speculating here. The only difference is some of us are thinking worst case scenario and some best case scenario. Some thing "keeping it real" means really grumpy. I just can't do that over a form of entertainment.
Its context, I keep saying this. You seem to think they scrapped the first two iterations because of failed development. How do you know that? Can you not even entertain the idea that they may have decided the voxel world sandbox direction was a better option? The rumor was that two iterations were designed at the same time and the current EQN won out. I will be the first to admit EQN could end up being a disaster but until I see that, or a reasonable indication of it, why fuss so much? Why assume the worst case scenario? Oh yeah, so I won't have my head in the sand? Hehe, we're all speculating here. The only difference is some of us are thinking worst case scenario and some best case scenario. Some thing "keeping it real" means really grumpy. I just can't do that over a form of entertainment.
Because if you are negative on a forum you must be right. Also if you assume the worst it a fact. If you take a dev at their word till they prove it right or wrong, you must be a fool. If RL was as negative as a forum, no one would get along.
Its context, I keep saying this. You seem to think they scrapped the first two iterations because of failed development. How do you know that? Can you not even entertain the idea that they may have decided the voxel world sandbox direction was a better option? The rumor was that two iterations were designed at the same time and the current EQN won out. I will be the first to admit EQN could end up being a disaster but until I see that, or a reasonable indication of it, why fuss so much? Why assume the worst case scenario? Oh yeah, so I won't have my head in the sand? Hehe, we're all speculating here. The only difference is some of us are thinking worst case scenario and some best case scenario. Some thing "keeping it real" means really grumpy. I just can't do that over a form of entertainment.
You keep pointing to some mythical context like it will somehow change the results.
I'm saying that SOE paid a team of developers to design a game they could take to market and they have failed to do that for over seven years now. You can squabble over what you think caused that failure all you want, but the only important aspect is they failed with multiple attempts during massive time frame.
If you pay a team $100 million to develop an MMO and after 5 years their only result is throwing out everything they developed, TWICE, and starting over a third time, then that is the very definition of failure. You can try to use new world thinking and paint this as some sort of success that has been deferred to a future time, but that is just plain nonsense.
Why assume the worst?!?!?! Perhaps because there is literally nothing to support a best case scenario? The history of failures surrounding the company? The closure of the forums? The lack of communication from the developers? The loss of Storybricks? The firing of the lead designers? The loss in manpower? The lack of interest from fans? The sale of the company to an investment firm?
Can you tell me why anyone should assume the best case scenario? Other than "hey pigs might learn to fly, so anything is possible."
Originally posted by Aelious Also, Allien had posted more links to revelent information than anyone else here. Some people aren't interested in that it seems because they don't trust the source anyway. The only other option is to consult the disgruntled vet hive mind. Kidding about that but there seems to be a pattern.
The only sourse I can completely trust are my own senses. I definitely cannot trust dev talk which has turned out to be a complete shite in so many times. Also, you and Allein seem to resort to a pathetic and ivalid demagogic means called arguments ad hominem. Aka you are attacking and naming persons who are not happy with the developemnt of EQN to undermine their arguments. Kind of weak tbh.
Context is the ability to see the events surrounding why something happened and is important for complete understanding. It's not mythical that DGC decided to go a different direction with EQN September of 2011, thus causing the total time of development of the next EverQuest. Does that indicate failure? That depends on how EQN ends up since we'll never know what would have been with the other themepark versions.
It's not mythical that Landmark doesn't have the features in place yet to gain and maintain a decent population of average "Joe Gamers." When Landmark does have those tools AND it still has the population it does now would it seem reasonable to say it is a failure.
Thing is, people can have opinions but when they come to a specific forum it's expected that they know something about the MMO they are referring to and making claims on, unless they are trolling. That's the point I just figure they have a bone to pick with DGC or the design of EQN, which lessens the validity of their claims. I could give my top ten reasons I think EQN could be a failure but why? Seems people are already holding the fort on that end lol.
Allien and myself have tried to give known information and keep things as factual, as can be in this situation, as possible but as you said you won't beleive it anyways so what's the point? It has gotten way too heated, on both sides, and the only thing left is to just avoid the noise. In reality, we're all trying to predict what will be based on nothing we can directly control. My only reason for entering this arena, literally, is because some people think their view of the situation is fact even though they couldn't possibly know and there is information contradictory from more reliable sources. From there dogs in the fight came out and I'm not going to participate in other people's grudges anymore.
So you're right, its not worth it but there are no victims here. If anything it's inventive to come up with topics not so based around spite and negatively. I'm looking forward to EQN.
Its context, I keep saying this. You seem to think they scrapped the first two iterations because of failed development. How do you know that? Can you not even entertain the idea that they may have decided the voxel world sandbox direction was a better option? The rumor was that two iterations were designed at the same time and the current EQN won out. I will be the first to admit EQN could end up being a disaster but until I see that, or a reasonable indication of it, why fuss so much? Why assume the worst case scenario? Oh yeah, so I won't have my head in the sand? Hehe, we're all speculating here. The only difference is some of us are thinking worst case scenario and some best case scenario. Some thing "keeping it real" means really grumpy. I just can't do that over a form of entertainment.
You keep pointing to some mythical context like it will somehow change the results.
I'm saying that SOE paid a team of developers to design a game they could take to market and they have failed to do that for over seven years now. You can squabble over what you think caused that failure all you want, but the only important aspect is they failed with multiple attempts during massive time frame.
If you pay a team $100 million to develop an MMO and after 5 years their only result is throwing out everything they developed, TWICE, and starting over a third time, then that is the very definition of failure. You can try to use new world thinking and paint this as some sort of success that has been deferred to a future time, but that is just plain nonsense.
Why assume the worst?!?!?! Perhaps because there is literally nothing to support a best case scenario? The history of failures surrounding the company? The closure of the forums? The lack of communication from the developers? The loss of Storybricks? The firing of the lead designers? The loss in manpower? The lack of interest from fans? The sale of the company to an investment firm?
Can you tell me why anyone should assume the best case scenario? Other than "hey pigs might learn to fly, so anything is possible."
This^^
We can hope for the best. But then reality sets in.
Comments
When people have the option to post something constructive about a game they like or could like (positive or negative), post nothing at all, or post something overly negative about a game they don't like or have intention of playing, the option choice sort of paints the individual a certain way.
Same is probably true for people like me that mainly stick to games that we have an interest in, that find some entertainment value/potential in, and that we want to succeed.
Neither is right or wrong and everyone is free to say what they want, but I'm glad I'm not full of so much negativity about a hobby that I go to for good times.
You are asking about fans posting negatively about EQN... well I AM a fan. I loved EQ and I love EQ2. I am also betaing Landmark. If Landmark is any indication, I don't have much hope for EQN. Am I a fan of it? No, because it hasn't been released yet and it isn't in its final form. And we know NOTHING about EQN at this point other than a few tiny things. EQN has been in development for many many years with no release date in sight. Why should anyone be a fan of it just because it has the name Everquest attached to it? After this long, its ok to post negatively about a game, especially when you've been backstabbed by lying developers as long as most of us on here who keep trying to paint their game as gods gift to gaming and yet it never is.
There is a reason people keep going back to the old games. EQ, EQ2, WoW, DAoC, and why games like Ultima and the like still have loyal and beloved followers after all this time. Because they were released as complete games. We weren't given only a them park pve, pvp, and raiding games like we are now. We weren't thrown "token housing" and told "we will expand it later" like in LOTRO. The worlds are HUGE to explore, and more keeps being added to them, not just more raids. There are literally thousands of items in these games, and a great deal of lore and there was when they were released. Heck, EQ2 has a mini game for crafting that none of any of the games released in at least the last 5 years do, and probably the best housing since SWG closed down.
Are we entitled to feel negatively? You bet we are. Most devs and publishers stopped listening to what the players want years ago, and started paying attention to the facebook games instead.
Do I hold hope for any game currently said to eventually be released? A bit. Do I trust that they will do what they say they will? Nope.
So negatively? You bet there are fans posting negatively. And they have the right to do that until we are all shown proof that it's not just going to be another wow copy with different graphics and a gimmick. They want me to believe they will give me more and that I should pay for a game? Then I say they need to prove it.
I didn't find much of this to be negative or out of context. Unlike a lot of what others have been posting.
Maybe the "god's gift" part, really don't see devs selling their games this way.
Saying you have doubts and what not is not being "negative."
Saying the game is a failure because art style, isn't "EQ", action combat, or best of all is canceled are more of long the lines of what I consider negative for the sake of it. Those aren't problems/issues, those are personal preferences and unfounded views.
Having a cautious view is logical and where anyone that has interest or considers themselves to be a "fan" should be at.
As I said above, I wouldn't be surprised if EQN was canceled or turned out to be nothing like what was promised or at least not up to the quality I'm hoping for. Doesn't mean I have any need to trash talk the overall design or how development is being handled. I want the game to be the best it can be, just like all games.
Unlike "fans" that moan and complain on here, I've actually attempted to contact DB to get some idea of what is going on. Surprise surprise, they answer. Not with exactly what I want to hear, but enough to keep a bit of hope going.
Crowfall is my current main game of interest. Why? Because they are going back to some older concepts (UO, Shadowbane, SWG, strategy/board games, etc). So I understand those longing for "old school" PVE experiences.
Unfortunately, games and the market are moving forward and unless they incorporate features that will pull in new blood (along with the old), they will have a very hard up hill battle.
Regardless, EQN is what it is and those that don't want, need, like it that state this in whatever way aren't doing anyone favors.
Until there is actually something new of substance to talk about, I understand conversations tend to be negative and what not. Only out of boredom and annoyance do I respond to such pointless comments from some on here. Hopefully they show/say something sooner or later.
Time to take another break from this forum and or this site. I get the itch, but then realize I shouldn't scratch it lol.
I've always held the adage that any constructive opinion is valid, but there is the emphasis on constructive. I know, the 'netz' and all but I honestly don't make that distinction and act the same way I would if having a face to face. Whether in real life or the interwebs those constantly complaining get annoying along with the sensational gossipers for attention and self-relevance. I personally don't mind what posting as a fan makes me look like because I find no thrill in bad-mouthing a title I have no vested interest in. There are a handful of games I could do that with, and have a field day, but not only is it not worth my time but why go out of my way to do things I know will aggravate fans of that title?
In the end I guess all kinds are needed, it adds color to the painting. I say this because in reality EQN could release, be a solid MMO, and people could still find something wrong with it. It's an art form. So, with that in mind, I can't wait to see what DGC releases and I have a very good feeling they'll bring what has been needed in MMOs for a while. If I get the time I may even start a thread on it.
As I have said already in this thread.. Many times constructive post were made addressing problems EQN is facing and creating, and you and others have ignored each and every one of them.. Often responding saying we have no clue what we are talking about.. etc etc.. EQN along with the engine Daybreak is using has MANY limitations, and it has been asked many times on the official forums (before they canned them) and here how those problems will effect gameplay.. SILENCE..
In my world, when important questions are asked and they are ignored, it normally means the company or person is dodging the issue in hopes it just goes away.. Just like a politician.. Prior to the buyout there were HUGE issues that needed to be addressed, especially with Storybricks, and there was never a response from the devs or anyone with inside knowledge..
ONE last thing.. I take it you have never been a sports FAN? I have been all my life, and FANS love to complain and address likes and dislikes of what they support.. SHIT.. I'm from the Cleveland area.. Look how we treat LeBron James.. Love him, Hate him, Love him again.. lmaooo Then we have the Browns.. Seriously the Browns are one of the biggest and most vocal fans in the world.. Johnny Football is a HUGE BUST draft pick along with countless others.. As a FAN, I bitch non-stop about the Browns choices.. Being a FAN of anything is a love/hate relationship..
LOL, you are part of the train wreck.
My friend, there is no need to respond as nobody takes your tripe seriously anymore. You are essentially asking people to ignore the obvious, because somehow you know something hidden and unseen that others do not. Others who have been around a lot longer, & with more presence than you.
You are essentially entertainment here & we are laughing at your very-trying posts. When you come around to reality it will be too late for your to grab credibility. You have not based any of your arguments on facts, just fanatical & wishful thinking.
Honestly dude, what adult is going to actually PAY for playing Landmark, or PAY for a MMORPG based on Landmark's silly graphics..? None, that is why it was going to be FREE and for children. But the trinket game is drying up, as kids are burnt out on trinket spending and John Smedley is going to have to move EQn upscale... but that doesn't work when you based the game on non-EQ players, and instead focused on newbie Children.
See what I mean? Look at the colorful tapestry
I love how things can be "obvouous" when the only knowledagble source on the subject is the developer. Some people are so angry and invested in seeing EQN fail it's hilarious.
Is it a train wreck? From outside the box we can't know and disliking the subjective facets of the titles doesn't count.
Is it vaporware? Well, CN only cut a few positions for EQN/LM while cutting out the entire section of DGC because the positions weren't about games. What does that say? That they don't mind 20-30 positions sitting there pulling a ruse on the players. Have we become that paranoid?
If someone doesn't like the combat, art direction, voxel world of EQN that's fine. Why claim unknowable things just to vent about a company and pester it's fans? Move along.
Yawn, bring something besides personal attacks to the conversation. I'm not claiming to know anything more than anyone else or to ignore what is available. Just stating my opinion that I believe it is silly to trash talk a company/product that one has little to no interest in.
I'm sure you've been around much longer than I and your presence is much greater...sigh, next you'll be telling me you are a pro? Although with your use of newbie, I'm guessing you are actually an adult, a bit out of touch, but an adult all the same.
If adults pay for WoW, Minecraft, Lego games, Mario and Candy Crush, pretty sure they'd pay for LM/EQN as well. Didn't realize we were talking about products or a genre for adults only.
But if I'm a newbie, guess you are a disgruntled nostalgia blinded vet. Name calling is so mature.
This really demonstrates your cheerleader mentality about this game.
What exactly do you mean by kicking the company when it is down? You act like people need to ignore all the problems and rally around the developers to help them with positive views. You have said these comments don't bother you, but obviously they do.
I'm just not sure what you think is constructive or positive about turning a blind eye towards the situation the company and game are in, just to dream up unrealistic situations in order to grasp at anything positive to talk about. It makes no sense.
This. You have concluded that anyone talking about the problems is somehow not interested. You don't get to define what people are or are not interested in.
The very fact that people are on the forum discussing the game means they have some level of interest.
And you do often claim to know more than other people. There are several times where you have said you are some super fan that follows the game closer than others and they don't know what they are talking about, because they don't like the way the game is turning out.
If there are problems on the development side you don't know about them. Taking longer than planned doesn't count as it can be explained by other things. That's what Allien, and myself, are referring to. Armchair devs that think they know so much about MMOs and their development they're making claims as though they're in project management positions. To me it's pointless unless one has a vested interest in seeing EQN fail, or not constructive.
Sorry, where do I personally attack anyone..? I have simply used your logic against you, to illustrate how disingenuous you are with calling people "negative".
So, when the facts are indeed negative and someone mentions them... you want people stop. Because you are on a crusade to protect the feelings of Daybreak employees..? Why can't people point out the many things that are wrong? Because you feel bad for someone.? Because you want to protect someone from hurt feelings? What is your motive to incessantly argue with people who point out how badly this project is being developed..? You get paid for every ego your protect..?
Most EQ players are in the mid to late 30s and older.
They own things like houses and cars and don't mind spending on the MMORPG. SOE/Daybreak/ is not trying to make a game for the adults who attended, SOE was instead trying to make a game for people who could not afford a MMORPG, (namely children and kids). Did you see the faces of all the people who attended SOE LIVE 2013 during the EQn reveal? There was many, many confused adults in the room.
Was John Smedley making a game for us attendees, our our kids? (EverQuest = a FREE cartoon game?) (Thank you John)
When the developers themselves admit they created and scapped two versions of the game, yes there are problems.
You trying to turn design failure into "taking longer than planned" is just being disingenuous.
Notice that no one is claiming to know the exact specifics of the problems, but there are most certainly problems and you trying to paint anyone that discusses those as wanting the game to fail is just thin skinned fanboyish defenses.
I think a lot of people would love nothing more than a great EQN game, but people have looked at everything surrounding the game and company and they are not convinced that is going to happen. Allien seems to want them to be quiet, because..... the team needs hugs instead of honest feedback?
Its context, I keep saying this. You seem to think they scrapped the first two iterations because of failed development. How do you know that? Can you not even entertain the idea that they may have decided the voxel world sandbox direction was a better option? The rumor was that two iterations were designed at the same time and the current EQN won out. I will be the first to admit EQN could end up being a disaster but until I see that, or a reasonable indication of it, why fuss so much? Why assume the worst case scenario? Oh yeah, so I won't have my head in the sand? Hehe, we're all speculating here. The only difference is some of us are thinking worst case scenario and some best case scenario. Some thing "keeping it real" means really grumpy. I just can't do that over a form of entertainment.
Because if you are negative on a forum you must be right. Also if you assume the worst it a fact. If you take a dev at their word till they prove it right or wrong, you must be a fool. If RL was as negative as a forum, no one would get along.
You keep pointing to some mythical context like it will somehow change the results.
I'm saying that SOE paid a team of developers to design a game they could take to market and they have failed to do that for over seven years now. You can squabble over what you think caused that failure all you want, but the only important aspect is they failed with multiple attempts during massive time frame.
If you pay a team $100 million to develop an MMO and after 5 years their only result is throwing out everything they developed, TWICE, and starting over a third time, then that is the very definition of failure. You can try to use new world thinking and paint this as some sort of success that has been deferred to a future time, but that is just plain nonsense.
Why assume the worst?!?!?! Perhaps because there is literally nothing to support a best case scenario? The history of failures surrounding the company? The closure of the forums? The lack of communication from the developers? The loss of Storybricks? The firing of the lead designers? The loss in manpower? The lack of interest from fans? The sale of the company to an investment firm?
Can you tell me why anyone should assume the best case scenario? Other than "hey pigs might learn to fly, so anything is possible."
The only sourse I can completely trust are my own senses. I definitely cannot trust dev talk which has turned out to be a complete shite in so many times. Also, you and Allein seem to resort to a pathetic and ivalid demagogic means called arguments ad hominem. Aka you are attacking and naming persons who are not happy with the developemnt of EQN to undermine their arguments. Kind of weak tbh.
Context is the ability to see the events surrounding why something happened and is important for complete understanding. It's not mythical that DGC decided to go a different direction with EQN September of 2011, thus causing the total time of development of the next EverQuest. Does that indicate failure? That depends on how EQN ends up since we'll never know what would have been with the other themepark versions.
It's not mythical that Landmark doesn't have the features in place yet to gain and maintain a decent population of average "Joe Gamers." When Landmark does have those tools AND it still has the population it does now would it seem reasonable to say it is a failure.
Thing is, people can have opinions but when they come to a specific forum it's expected that they know something about the MMO they are referring to and making claims on, unless they are trolling. That's the point I just figure they have a bone to pick with DGC or the design of EQN, which lessens the validity of their claims. I could give my top ten reasons I think EQN could be a failure but why? Seems people are already holding the fort on that end lol.
Allien and myself have tried to give known information and keep things as factual, as can be in this situation, as possible but as you said you won't beleive it anyways so what's the point? It has gotten way too heated, on both sides, and the only thing left is to just avoid the noise. In reality, we're all trying to predict what will be based on nothing we can directly control. My only reason for entering this arena, literally, is because some people think their view of the situation is fact even though they couldn't possibly know and there is information contradictory from more reliable sources. From there dogs in the fight came out and I'm not going to participate in other people's grudges anymore.
So you're right, its not worth it but there are no victims here. If anything it's inventive to come up with topics not so based around spite and negatively. I'm looking forward to EQN.
This^^
We can hope for the best. But then reality sets in.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.