General: The Daily Quest - Do You Back Kickstarters?

BillMurphy

Today's quest is a contentious one. On one hand Kickstarter has given us some amazing games in its short existence: Wasteland 2, Pillars of Eternity, Hand of Fate, and so on. But when it comes to MMOs, we've yet to see the fruits of all our money. And with the success of Crowfall on the platform, we're likely to see more games go for crowdfunding. Our question is... do you back games on Kickstarter?

I've stepped to the plate for several games, myself: Shroud of the Avatar, Pillars of Eternity, Shards Online, Crowfall, Torment: Tides of Numenara, Camelot Unchained, Pathfinder and a few others I can't recall right now. I'm a believer in the process, even though there's no guarantee that the products which come from a campaign will be what we're all hoping to get. 

When I think about why I back games, it's usually because I trust in the developers behind them or believe in the vision they present. I've been around this world long enough to know that a lot of what they're trying to do would never be funded by a AAA studio, and I know that I want the kind of games they're trying to build. It only makes sense to me then to help them reach their goal.  

And yet, at the same time, I know that the end product may never be what was pitched at the beginning. And that worries me, but as a middle-class american with decent enough disposable income, I know I feel good about supporting studios trying to make games I believe in. It's a double-edged sword of sorts.

But what about you?  Do you back games on Kickstarter, IndieGoGo, or other services?  Why or why not?  That's today's Daily Quest.

Foomerang

I may start backing some once I start seeing current ones actually finished.

Ikeda

No.  You show me a game that's succeeded on KS and I'll show you 4 that failed.  Same with Steamworks.

Heck, until recently I stayed away from KS.  The concept is great.  You help fund someone's dream.  That's good.  The bad, often the people who dream (especially as anonymous internet people go) are often the kind of people you wouldn't trust your pet with, let alone your money.

Scott_Jeslis

Yep, not only in game development but music as well! I've helped back two Metal releases in the past. :-)

elocke

I'm still on the fence about giving money to someone without the guarantee of a product at all.  As we've seen with Greed Monger there just is no real guarantee a game will even come out(granted, it might still happen but the odds are not in it's favor).  I am very close to giving in to a few games though, but more based on the vids I've watched of actual gameplay and how close they are to giving me something to play NOW. 

For example, I watched the Albion vids on the last beta test and was impressed.  I think I will opt into the next test when it's closer to being playable, I just don't like paying for something I can't play today, if that makes any sense.

On the other hand, I almost backed Pathfinder until I got to play a quick trial of the game from a friend's trial code.  So glad I didn't, alpha/beta stage or not, if the game makes me feel like I'm fighting the controls it will never grab me.  Just jumping in that game alone, the camera doesn't even follow the character up then down in the jumping animation and it feels all kinds of wrong, on top of no real direction on how to do anything. So, yeah, I refuse to back that game and my excitement for it quickly crashed and burned.

Yes, I realize it's a work in progress and stuff like the above might be fixed on the polish pass closer to launch, but to me, after beta testing and alpha testing a ton of games over the years, if the basics aren't there first and the game doesn't "feel" good then it never really addresses it.  TSW and SWTOR are 2 good examples, as those still don't "feel" right even years after launch.

Double-edged sword indeed.  I'm also very picky, but hey, it's my wallet, right?

olepi

No, I have not backed any kickstarter games. I do buy early release games, like "Life is Feudal" and "Elite: Dangerous" to help them out. If the game has been released and I can play it, even in a primitive form, then I might back it.

Part of the job of creating a real game is the organizational skills needed to bring it all together. A KS game with 2 people has not demonstrated that like an early released game has.

Grunty

No, I don't. I refuse to donate money to a for profit enterprise.

CrazKanuk

Originally posted by olepi

No, I have not backed any kickstarter games. I do buy early release games, like "Life is Feudal" and "Elite: Dangerous" to help them out. If the game has been released and I can play it, even in a primitive form, then I might back it.

Part of the job of creating a real game is the organizational skills needed to bring it all together. A KS game with 2 people has not demonstrated that like an early released game has.

Ummmmmmmmmm, I hate to break it to you, but Elite: Dangerous was a Kickstarter game. So, while you may be correct in your assertion that a game developed by 2 people in their basement might be more risky than some campaigns, you also show that there is less and less differentiation between KS games and "real" game because you contradicted yourself. 

JonBonJawa

I´m backing all sorts of cool stuff and so far I always got great things out of it and helped independents out of the greedy system of investment banks, boycotting demon worshipping suits sucking the life out of creatives.

down with the system, be the solution not the problem

 

Kabaal

I don't, just like i don't pre-order games months before they're due anymore. I've been burnt too many times. As far as i'm concerned my money stays in the bank where it belongs until a product is proven. I don't throw my money at maybe's.

RemyVorender

No. Never.

meonthissite

So far I've not seen any that are making a game that I'd like to play. They'd have to be pretty darned innovative to get my money but that's just me. The reason I say that isn't because I'm stingy but because this industry this genre has yet to have a completely new take on the mmo experience. We've had several developers out there falsely claim that they are doing something different or that they delivered on a different experience then what we've seen before however what they've delivered on is more of the same. Until I see a kickstarter with real promise in which they A: actually are delivering on something new B: absolutely will hold their ground and not destroy what they are doing differently when it launches, I prefer to hold onto my money. 

BulletTooth

I backed a few video games in the past when kickstarter was still in its infancy. However after being burned a couple of times and witnessing the direction the industry is going. I have decided to no longer back/pre-order video games. 

I should note I do still back table top games. Because almost every table top I have backed has been released. Not to mention the majority of them are exactly what was promised and even the ones that weren't quite what I was expecting were still fun to play.

 

Jaedor

Yes. Have backed several games and a number of other projects. Out of crowdfunding so far for games, I've received 3 alpha keys, 2 beta keys and a launched product.

Overall, I am a pretty happy camper with crowdfunding. But I always consider it a gamble.

Wizardry

First off no i do not support kickstarters,i have not even donated or subbed to a single Twitch streamer either.

I also do not agree that kickstarters have given us any good games,USUALLY i see some interest in some new games,but none of these or VERY few have given me even a notion of interest.

I would say 7 days to die is about the most  complete but even that kickstarter game is still slow   to move along and get to where i would play it.

EVERY single kickstarter is on a freeware or very cheap game engine,uses low end graphics and in cases like Hands of Fate,just a low budget design all around.Blizzard has joined this fray of low budget game designs with it's HS  "Unity Engine"and HOTS as well as resurrecting Sierra for the purpose of making Indie games.

What it really looks like to me is that rather than RISK 100 million dollar investments over 4-5 years ,the developers have decided to flood the market with tons of cheap games and hope one catches on and makes money.There is very little risk that way but to me,it is just showing me they are NOT aiming for TRIPLE A gaming but instead aiming for a gimmick that works and hoping to get lucky.

Ikeda

Originally posted by Wizardry

the developers have decided to flood the market with tons of cheap games and hope one catches on and makes money.There is very little risk that way but to me,it is just showing me they are NOT aiming for TRIPLE A gaming but instead aiming for a gimmick that works and hoping to get lucky.

This is exactly why the Apple App Store is filled with almost nothing but Chinese knock-off bloatware.  The Android store is even worse.  Not the direction we want to be heading.

Xxerox

I like how almost none of you will pay for kickstarter but in reallity people pay from 20 dollars to 25 000 for unfinished projects there, just to earn the extras.

 

I mean, Only thing there is, is a video of the possible game, nothingelse. Why not first made the game , make a demo, and THEN make a Kickstarter to get even more money, but with people already knowing what they are paying for.

Sovrath

I do back kickstarters but not many.

I need to see something that I believe has a chance of being made.

If a group asks for some amount of money but their project is much more ambitious than that money could cover, I don't back them.

I backed "Beyond the Sleep" as I knew, given the scope of the project, that it had a good chance of being finished. Which it did.

I would have backed Pillars of Eternity but found out about it a day after the fact.

I have backed Camelot Unchained so we'll see. So far so good.

I've backed a movie which was released, special effects for another movie which was released (and I'm backing some special effects for its sequel) and a CD for a friend and I know that will be released.

I've seen game projects that I would love to have funded but just showing me a tech demo or pictures with explanations isn't going to do it for me.

 

 

CrazKanuk

Originally posted by xxerox

I like how almost none of you will pay for kickstarter but in reallity people pay from 20 dollars to 25 000 for unfinished projects there, just to earn the extras.

 

I mean, Only thing there is, is a video of the possible game, nothingelse. Why not first made the game , make a demo, and THEN make a Kickstarter to get even more money, but with people already knowing what they are paying for.

I think you're living in 2011. I'm really sorry, but a simple video pitch doesn't get the same response as it used to. Ideas are quickly being replaced by roadmaps and, even, nearly complete games. Camelot Unchained came to the table with NOTHING but a concept and almost failed, and they were actually trending towards failure for a while. Shaker (an RPG from John Romero and Brenda Brathwaite) was another that actually DID fail and I believe it was primarily due to a lack of any real content. Fast forward to "the now" and you've got projects like Shards Online, which is showing a nearly-complete game, Crowfall, which has a BUNCH of really great reels that that can demo. People aren't blindly sinking money into projects anymore, and certainly not thousands of dollars. It just does not happen. 

Phry

I did back one, think it was last year, people told me i would regret it, they were totally right, but, lesson learned. Since then though, i did buy into Elite Dangerous, and i totally do not regret that decision one iota. So my experience is a bit hit and miss, i think as long as you realise that you might not get anything for your money, then thats okay, kickstarter is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is a gamble 

angerbeaver

I have not but just because I don't hear or find out about the games in time.

Pillars of Eternity and Sword Coast Legends I would definitely have backed. I would only back enough for digital copy though, I don't care about the physical items.

Xxerox

Originally posted by CrazKanuk

Originally posted by xxerox

I like how almost none of you will pay for kickstarter but in reallity people pay from 20 dollars to 25 000 for unfinished projects there, just to earn the extras.

 

I mean, Only thing there is, is a video of the possible game, nothingelse. Why not first made the game , make a demo, and THEN make a Kickstarter to get even more money, but with people already knowing what they are paying for.

I think you're living in 2011. I'm really sorry, but a simple video pitch doesn't get the same response as it used to. Ideas are quickly being replaced by roadmaps and, even, nearly complete games. Camelot Unchained came to the table with NOTHING but a concept and almost failed, and they were actually trending towards failure for a while. Shaker (an RPG from John Romero and Brenda Brathwaite) was another that actually DID fail and I believe it was primarily due to a lack of any real content. Fast forward to "the now" and you've got projects like Shards Online, which is showing a nearly-complete game, Crowfall, which has a BUNCH of really great reels that that can demo. People aren't blindly sinking money into projects anymore, and certainly not thousands of dollars. It just does not happen. 

You are funny. Most of Kickstarter projects are scam, Most projects there are incomplete. And people do pay thousands of dollars not just for MMO.  People still blindly look at videos and think : Oh cool video, then the game is gonna be cool!

CrazKanuk

Originally posted by xxerox

Originally posted by CrazKanuk

Originally posted by xxerox

I like how almost none of you will pay for kickstarter but in reallity people pay from 20 dollars to 25 000 for unfinished projects there, just to earn the extras.

 

I mean, Only thing there is, is a video of the possible game, nothingelse. Why not first made the game , make a demo, and THEN make a Kickstarter to get even more money, but with people already knowing what they are paying for.

I think you're living in 2011. I'm really sorry, but a simple video pitch doesn't get the same response as it used to. Ideas are quickly being replaced by roadmaps and, even, nearly complete games. Camelot Unchained came to the table with NOTHING but a concept and almost failed, and they were actually trending towards failure for a while. Shaker (an RPG from John Romero and Brenda Brathwaite) was another that actually DID fail and I believe it was primarily due to a lack of any real content. Fast forward to "the now" and you've got projects like Shards Online, which is showing a nearly-complete game, Crowfall, which has a BUNCH of really great reels that that can demo. People aren't blindly sinking money into projects anymore, and certainly not thousands of dollars. It just does not happen. 

You are funny. Most of Kickstarter projects are scam, Most projects there are incomplete. And people do pay thousands of dollars not just for MMO.  People still blindly look at videos and think : Oh cool video, then the game is gonna be cool!

I think you probably need to refine your definition of "Most of". If a KS is a scam, the likelihood of it actually becoming sucessfully funded are slim. In fact, someone had pulled numbers on 300 video game projects from a while ago in order to make the argument that KS isn't effective. However, of the 300 successfully-funded games in their list, 218 of the 300 were successfully funded as of mid-December 2014. So there are another few months of releases that I'm sure are unaccounted for at this point. Specifically, Pillars of Eternity, to name one. That's over 2/3 released. Pillars of Eternity was funded back in 2012, so it's not unrealistic to believe that a game could still deliver. 

 

I do love this argument, though, and it does happen enough that I'm almost tempted to update the spreadsheet again. If I felt like it'd actually change someone's opinion, I might do it. However, I'm sure that they'd just come up with some other anti-crowdfunding argument that's constructed on flawed logic and paranoia. 

Lheiah

I've backed SC, SotA, Repop, and Crowfall. Plan to back CU as beta 1 approaches. My only regret is SotA, wish I had read more about their combat system before I gave them money, but that's on me more than them. I do believe they could have been more transparent with the system than they were. My impression was more of TSW deck system at time of backing.

 

I wish more of a mutual fund type thing would arise for funding games that way we could actually see returns on investments in real dollars, than just getting a bunch of pixels to show for our dollars, and a game to play. I want shares, not just a cape, pony, house, or a space ship!

 

If developers go the normal route, they are expected to provide dividends to their investors. Why can't a structure be set up where they don't feel like they have investor overlords, but us backers get the same treatment as high level investors with returns for our dollars for successful projects???

 

Xxerox

Originally posted by CrazKanuk

Originally posted by xxerox

Originally posted by CrazKanuk

Originally posted by xxerox

I like how almost none of you will pay for kickstarter but in reallity people pay from 20 dollars to 25 000 for unfinished projects there, just to earn the extras.

 

I mean, Only thing there is, is a video of the possible game, nothingelse. Why not first made the game , make a demo, and THEN make a Kickstarter to get even more money, but with people already knowing what they are paying for.

I think you're living in 2011. I'm really sorry, but a simple video pitch doesn't get the same response as it used to. Ideas are quickly being replaced by roadmaps and, even, nearly complete games. Camelot Unchained came to the table with NOTHING but a concept and almost failed, and they were actually trending towards failure for a while. Shaker (an RPG from John Romero and Brenda Brathwaite) was another that actually DID fail and I believe it was primarily due to a lack of any real content. Fast forward to "the now" and you've got projects like Shards Online, which is showing a nearly-complete game, Crowfall, which has a BUNCH of really great reels that that can demo. People aren't blindly sinking money into projects anymore, and certainly not thousands of dollars. It just does not happen. 

You are funny. Most of Kickstarter projects are scam, Most projects there are incomplete. And people do pay thousands of dollars not just for MMO.  People still blindly look at videos and think : Oh cool video, then the game is gonna be cool!

I think you probably need to refine your definition of "Most of". If a KS is a scam, the likelihood of it actually becoming sucessfully funded are slim. In fact, someone had pulled numbers on 300 video game projects from a while ago in order to make the argument that KS isn't effective. However, of the 300 successfully-funded games in their list, 218 of the 300 were successfully funded as of mid-December 2014. So there are another few months of releases that I'm sure are unaccounted for at this point. Specifically, Pillars of Eternity, to name one. That's over 2/3 released. Pillars of Eternity was funded back in 2012, so it's not unrealistic to believe that a game could still deliver. 

 

I do love this argument, though, and it does happen enough that I'm almost tempted to update the spreadsheet again. If I felt like it'd actually change someone's opinion, I might do it. However, I'm sure that they'd just come up with some other anti-crowdfunding argument that's constructed on flawed logic and paranoia. 

... KS is not scam...  But there are people using Kickstarter for stupid projects and at the end just put the money In Their Pocket.  I  know someone who made a project there that was Already Finished, just so he can get money. (which was sucess by the way)

 

The flaw of KS is that after the limit is reached , people can pay even MORE.  It is like : We got the money we needed, but now that you pay more we may add some more content and bigger prices so you to pay even more.

 

P.S. I'm not anti croundfunding. I have nothing against it.  I would even pay for projects that im 100% sure they would work. Hell, i even almost paid for FaceRIG just cos it looked so cool.

Mendel

I have absolutely no interest in backing a game developer's plans.  I'm unable to back my own plans.  To me, these companies using kickstarter are attempting to act as charities, not investment options.  And these do not offer any of the benefits that a normal charity would.  I'll purchase finished products only.