Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Why does mmo AI have to be so stupid?
Mechanism
Member UncommonPosts: 143
I've noticed that in every mmo I've ever played the AI has been noticeably dumber then in most single player games. With the exception of bosses the standard mob will behave in the same simplistic fashion in almost all mmos. They should be attacking in formations, avoiding especially powerful attacks, finding cover against ranged players or just generally doing anything other then running in a straight line and randomly executing whatever skills are off cooldown. I know this may be the compromise developers have to make to keep mechanics like tanking working or reduce server lag but smart AI is one of the most satisfying ways to make a game challenging and maybe it's about time developers stopped making that compromise.
Comments
"smart" AI doesn't make a game more challenging, it just increases the time to find out how to exploit the AI and grind them in an efficient manner. (sometimes it makes it take less time because the complexity leaves AI prone to some amazing bugs)
The only way to make PVE difficult, it to make it artificially difficult (surprise stuff, RNG, mobs being OP, "cheating", etc) a computer will never be able to beat a competant player if they are playing on the same level
Waiting for:
The Repopulation
Albion Online
You could also ask the same thing about PI (Player Intelligence).
And therein lies your answer.
Once upon a time....
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I have always enjoyed Guild Wars' AI.
They understand how to use almost(I saw almost because of the GW2 update) every conditional skill.
They understand not to stand in AoE.
They understand when to interrupt, rather than spamming their interrupt when it comes off cooldown.
They understand to revive one another if they're capable of doing so.
Granted it is old and it's not nearly as complex as it may seem, it just simply runs more checks than your average AI.
I have seen hit n miss.there is no distinction between mmo and single player.The only possible difference is that single players games have LESS of everything,so of course easier to spend more time on several aspects of a game.
There is no such thing as a TOUGH AI,it doesn't think,it merely works the way it was coded.It can react to damage,to healing,in some games with accuracy as well as other variables such as resistances.
A common script especially for Bosses is to give them reactionary code ,example does one thing at 75%,50%,25% etc etc.The code doesn't care what you are thinking,it never thinks, it simply reacts.
I have seen some really bad unrealistic ideas tossed into our games,especially using those red carpets.It is not a plausible idea that a creature would put a neatly packed red carpet on the grounds with variable designs.
Seeing that devs in latter years have been reluctant to put any effort into systems,you can bet they are not going to put much script into AI.You also need to realize that AI eats PC bandwidth,a single player game with not many AI npc's willl eat far less than a full open world full of assets.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I saw video from the Stargate MMO (canceled), with some very impressive AI.
The reporter guy was attacking a base guarded by mobs. A bunch of the mobs identified the guy as a threat, worked together and pinned him down behind cover. Then the mobs started flanking so he was trapped, unable to avoid enemy fire.
I don't recall the outcome (didn't show it?), but the mobs clearly had him outnumbered, out maneuvered, and out gunned.
As I watched, it amazed me how different combat was from the typical 'Tank n Spank'.
Point being, I think strong AI is possible. My question would be is if most players find it desirable.
Blizz already tried that back at tier 9 content .. there was an encounter called Faction Champions with great AI (mobs will attack caster first, use cc .. i.e. do whatever players will do).
It is really not hard to do. But what happened? Players qq and it was nerfed (to the standard fight) and never tried again. People don't want great AI .. they want patterns they can learn & beat in PVE.
If you want great AI, just play pvp.
one game developer also did a study in this kind of situation and found that although players "claim" they want smart AI, the majority of players couldnt actually handle being up against smart AI as they AI was too smart for them... when put up against a real AI team, the AI team basically outplayed them everytime until the players figured out a way to cheese the situation.
It's not that much processing power actually.
It's not a tech limit. It's a design decision. Darkfall has extremely sophisticated mob AI, and so did UO in the 90s, and SWG in 2002.
That's why you want to add randomness to the AI. They shouldn't do the smart thing every time, even most of the time but rather somewhere between the smart thing and one of them doing something really dumb.
Randomness also adds to players "thinking on their feet".
Once upon a time....
pretty sure they downtune it to a level that they find acceptable for all target audiences, just because you "wipe your ass" with something doesnt mean other people are going to find it as easy or less challenging and they arent designing games for just the hardcore or great gamer, they are designing games to be accessible to lots of people... you're not happy where it's at, find a new hobby or something, but it's a small problem in a large pond.
relax dude, i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the AI issue, i was merely stating a fact that it's been tested multiple times apparently and that developers must tune to a level acceptable to all audiences.
or maybe the playerbase doesnt want to have to spend 5min + killing a mob, that's blocking, countering, interrupting, pushing and backing off etc... just as intelligently if not moreso with almost positively better reaction times than you as a human. it's not like game companies havent tried to find the happy medium.
Heh, wut? I was just adding my idea in there.
Once upon a time....
nah .. it is actually quite easy. Blizz has done it before .. just decided not to do it again because that is not what players want.
It is really not hard to do. But what happened? Players qq and it was nerfed (to the standard fight) and never tried again. People don't want great AI .. they want patterns they can learn & beat in PVE.
If you want great AI, just play pvp.
That was a super interesting fight but it didn't really belong in WoW since players didn't have the tools necessary to defend themselves against enemies that behaved like that. You'd have to design an mmo from the ground up with smart enemies in mind.
Do you want AI to be as smart as say computer chess programs? I don't think you do. Content is there to be defeated.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
You make it sound like content shouldn't be a challenge.
Anyway I'd at least like AI to be smart enough to be distinct from game to game. Right now combat in a lot of mmos feels similar partially because the enemies are largely behaving in the same predictable ways.