Skyrim mods now cost money

GeezerGamer

I don't know, maybe it's me, but I think I am about done with this hobby of mine.

Now Skyrim Mods are going Micro-Transaction.

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent

 

Kiyoris

Valve is trying to recoup the massive losses they incurred from their Steam OS failure that went nowhere.

I don't understand why people still use Steam.

GeezerGamer

Originally posted by Kiyoris

Valve is trying to recoup the massive losses they incurred from their Steam OS failure that went nowhere.

I don't understand why people still use Steam.

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=72850&browsesort=trend§ion=readytouseitems&requiredflags%5B%5D=paiditems

 

Turns my stomach.

Modding was always about......well, who knows now? 

I guess I had the wrong idea.

 

I only hope this crashes harder than Steam OS

nariusseldon

Really? You have something against people trying to charge for their work? Personally i think most player created content is crapped and won't waste my time on SKYRIM mod .. but still .. if they want to charge money for it, it is their prerogative. I don't see a problem.

 

Axehilt

So most games charge money for services rendered through the history of gaming, then a handful of community mods didn't, and now that those community mods will sometimes charge money for services rendered, that's the last straw that makes you want to find another hobby?  Why weren't you outraged at the thousands of earlier games which charged a fee to play them ? (Before you'd even got a chance to learn whether you would enjoy them, no less!)

 

alkarionlog

I don't know about you but the mods comunity normally save teh devs asses by doing something they couldn't, sometimes making the damn game playable, now if you want to also make modder to sell what they did since we can't be sure on what they did without trying first, because we also know even though modder saved games there is a lot more with is crap, so its not a wise way to spend money, plus serious steam will keep 75% of the money and modder only 25% of wht they sell, so tell me why I would even do that? better just keep the thing on nexus for free and let steam burn for all I care

GeezerGamer

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Really? You have something against people trying to charge for their work? Personally i think most player created content is crapped and won't waste my time on SKYRIM mod .. but still .. if they want to charge money for it, it is their prerogative. I don't see a problem.

 

They have a right to, but it's not what modding was about. Well, not before anyway.

Since you don't really follow modding, you probably don't know. But,

There are good mods for Skyrim that you can't really get anymore. Or you can, but on 3rd party independent sites that aren't affiliated with the modding community. Why? Becasue in the example of some mods that add hairstyles to Skyrim, there were modders for the SIMS who claimed their work was taken. Controversy followed and the community lost.

 

This is going to happen on huge scales now. Especailly when a paid-for-mod owner looks at someone else who felt that certain mod didn't deserve to be paid for and makes his own free version and the owner claims rights to it and the mods are taken down.

Fights between modders is inevitable now and everyone is going to lose. Nothing good will come of this.

 

 

Trobon

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Really? You have something against people trying to charge for their work? Personally i think most player created content is crapped and won't waste my time on SKYRIM mod .. but still .. if they want to charge money for it, it is their prerogative. I don't see a problem.

 

Allow me to enumerate the problems for you.

1. Valve can say this is "for the modders" all they want, but they take a 75% cut of every sale and unless you make $100 (after cut so $400 in sales) you won't get  a payout at all and Valve pockets the money.
2. In addition, you as a modder now have to hand over a lot of control to Steam. One person tried to pull his mod from Steam's paid workshop already and was told he couldn't. 
3. There is absolutely no way for someone to tell whether you are the original maker of this mod or stole a free mod off of Nexus and posted it for sale. While, this kind of theft may eventually get found out it ends up making the mod makers upset and there are already people pulling out their mods.
4. There is no guarantee of support. Let's say I make a mod for skyrim and sell it to you for $5. 3 months later Skyrim updates and breaks my mod. However, at this point I am no longer developing mods. Or worse, maybe I create a new mod that fixes these issues and charge $5 for that one instead of fixing the old one. Well too bad for you. With official DLC and content there is a semblance of guaranteed compatibility and support.
5. There are mods out there that have had tons of other mods based off of and are now planning on charging. That means to use a lot of mods out there you would need to purchase this base mod or you are SOL because mods were designed with the intention of all base mods remaining free.

All of this is already causing a fracturing of the modding community that used to be a shining example of PC gaming and made Bethesda games what they are today. It is not about modders not deserving anything for their work, but at the end of the day this is bad for the modders, bad for the gamers, and bad for the game itself.

GeezerGamer

Originally posted by Axehilt

So most games charge money for services rendered through the history of gaming, then a handful of community mods didn't, and now that those community mods will sometimes charge money for services rendered, that's the last straw that makes you want to find another hobby?  Why weren't you outraged at the thousands of earlier games which charged a fee to play them ? (Before you'd even got a chance to learn whether you would enjoy them, no less!)

 

Who says I wasn't?

Buit this is a little different than an MMO cash shop. See my previous post.

Kiyoris

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Really? You have something against people trying to charge for their work? Personally i think most player created content is crapped and won't waste my time on SKYRIM mod .. but still .. if they want to charge money for it, it is their prerogative. I don't see a problem.

 

Except that Valve takes 75% of the money.

JohnP0100

The 75% was set by Bethesda not Valve.

GeezerGamer

Originally posted by Trobon

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Really? You have something against people trying to charge for their work? Personally i think most player created content is crapped and won't waste my time on SKYRIM mod .. but still .. if they want to charge money for it, it is their prerogative. I don't see a problem.

 

Allow me to enumerate the problems for you.

1. Valve can say this is "for the modders" all they want, but they take a 75% cut of every sale and unless you make $100 (after cut so $400 in sales) you won't get  a payout at all and Valve pockets the money.
2. In addition, you as a modder now have to hand over a lot of control to Steam. One person tried to pull his mod from Steam's paid workshop already and was told he couldn't. 
3. There is absolutely no way for someone to tell whether you are the original maker of this mod or stole a free mod off of Nexus and posted it for sale. While, this kind of theft may eventually get found out it ends up making the mod makers upset and there are already people pulling out their mods.
4. There is no guarantee of support. Let's say I make a mod for skyrim and sell it to you for $5. 3 months later Skyrim updates and breaks my mod. However, at this point I am no longer developing mods. Or worse, maybe I create a new mod that fixes these issues and charge $5 for that one instead of fixing the old one. Well too bad for you. With official DLC and content there is a semblance of guaranteed compatibility and support.
5. There are mods out there that have had tons of other mods based off of and are now planning on charging. That means to use a lot of mods out there you would need to purchase this base mod or you are SOL because mods were designed with the intention of all base mods remaining free.

All of this is already causing a fracturing of the modding community that used to be a shining example of PC gaming and made Bethesda games what they are today. It is not about modders not deserving anything for their work, but at the end of the day this is bad for the modders, bad for the gamers, and bad for the game itself.

You refer to the fishing mod?

Perfect example of a problem. 

1st modder made a mod that used another modder's animations. The 2nd modder had a problem with  the 1st modder using the 2nd's mod to make money for the 1st modder.

At least the 1st guy tried to do the right thing by taking his mod down but Steam won't refund those who bought it already and those people have access to it on Steam. Steam won't remove the mod unless they are "Legally compelled" to remove it.

Yeah, not good.

observer

Charging for mods goes against the very spirit of the modding community.

Modders create mods to enhance the experience of the existing game.  Modding was never intended to make a profit.

nariusseldon

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Really? You have something against people trying to charge for their work? Personally i think most player created content is crapped and won't waste my time on SKYRIM mod .. but still .. if they want to charge money for it, it is their prerogative. I don't see a problem.

 

They have a right to, but it's not what modding was about. Well, not before anyway.

Since you don't really follow modding, you probably don't know. But,

There are good mods for Skyrim that you can't really get anymore. Or you can, but on 3rd party independent sites that aren't affiliated with the modding community. Why? Becasue in the example of some mods that add hairstyles to Skyrim, there were modders for the SIMS who claimed their work was taken. Controversy followed and the community lost.

 

This is going to happen on huge scales now. Especailly when a paid-for-mod owner looks at someone else who felt that certain mod didn't deserve to be paid for and makes his own free version and the owner claims rights to it and the mods are taken down.

Fights between modders is inevitable now and everyone is going to lose. Nothing good will come of this.

 

 

Sounds horrible. But you are right .. i don't follow modding. I barely have enough time to play professionally produced content, and i certainly am not going to waste my time on mods.

 

GeezerGamer

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Really? You have something against people trying to charge for their work? Personally i think most player created content is crapped and won't waste my time on SKYRIM mod .. but still .. if they want to charge money for it, it is their prerogative. I don't see a problem.

 

They have a right to, but it's not what modding was about. Well, not before anyway.

Since you don't really follow modding, you probably don't know. But,

There are good mods for Skyrim that you can't really get anymore. Or you can, but on 3rd party independent sites that aren't affiliated with the modding community. Why? Becasue in the example of some mods that add hairstyles to Skyrim, there were modders for the SIMS who claimed their work was taken. Controversy followed and the community lost.

 

This is going to happen on huge scales now. Especailly when a paid-for-mod owner looks at someone else who felt that certain mod didn't deserve to be paid for and makes his own free version and the owner claims rights to it and the mods are taken down.

Fights between modders is inevitable now and everyone is going to lose. Nothing good will come of this.

 

 

Sounds horrible. But you are right .. i don't follow modding. I barely have enough time to play professionally produced content, and i certainly am not going to waste my time on mods.

 

Mods are awsome. Especially when in the right combination. My last playthough had 178 mods.

Individually, They probably aren't worth anything. Collectively, they change the entire game. But there is no way, I am going to even pay 25 cents ea. for 200 mods.

I agree, they aren't worth it. At least not individually.

Well, except for what you said about professionally produced content. Maybe you aren't really familiar with what Bethesda "professionally produces" but Skyrim is almost unplayable without the unofficial (bug fix) mods. Those mods where the community takes what Bethesda didn't "professionally produce" in a working state and make it work.......the way Bethesda was supposed to.

So, now, will we need to pay for those too?

Hrimnir

Originally posted by Axehilt

So most games charge money for services rendered through the history of gaming, then a handful of community mods didn't, and now that those community mods will sometimes charge money for services rendered, that's the last straw that makes you want to find another hobby?  Why weren't you outraged at the thousands of earlier games which charged a fee to play them ? (Before you'd even got a chance to learn whether you would enjoy them, no less!)

 

I love that i agree with both you and narius on this issue 100%.  You know something is desperately wrong with their POV when all 3 of us agree on something.

Axehilt

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Who says I wasn't?

Buit this is a little different than an MMO cash shop. See my previous post.

Clashes are inevitable.

Blatant copying should be policed. When scripts are copy-pasted or meshes/textures are stolen, or even the precise balance numbers are re-used, then that is copyright infringement and the offender deserves to be removed.

But being heavily influenced by another mod won't be policed.  A designer friend I worked wrote a great article about commodity game designs which applies just as well to mods. Basically if you charge money for something which is easily mimicked, then you're just begging someone else to come along and replicate the same feel (as long as it's not blatant copying) at a more competitive price (even free, if the amount of work involved isn't significant.)

Competition is good for consumers. The ability to sell a mod should increase the number of mod-makers in the space, and the capability of someone to release a similar-but-cheaper product should keep them honest.

Literally the only thing worth getting angry about is that Steam isn't charging the typical 30% cut that Apple or Google take from their app stores, but is instead taking a 75% cut.  That's fairly excessive.

mrBurns210

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Who says I wasn't?

Buit this is a little different than an MMO cash shop. See my previous post.

Clashes are inevitable.

Blatant copying should be policed. When scripts are copy-pasted or meshes/textures are stolen, or even the precise balance numbers are re-used, then that is copyright infringement and the offender deserves to be removed.

But being heavily influenced by another mod won't be policed.  A designer friend I worked wrote a great article about commodity game designs which applies just as well to mods. Basically if you charge money for something which is easily mimicked, then you're just begging someone else to come along and replicate the same feel (as long as it's not blatant copying) at a more competitive price (even free, if the amount of work involved isn't significant.)

Competition is good for consumers. The ability to sell a mod should increase the number of mod-makers in the space, and the capability of someone to release a similar-but-cheaper product should keep them honest.

Literally the only thing worth getting angry about is that Steam isn't charging the typical 30% cut that Apple or Google take from their app stores, but is instead taking a 75% cut.  That's fairly excessive.

True words spoken. This is only a good thing.

Just to note:

The 25% thing is decided by Bethesda for the Skyrim mods.

http://i.imgur.com/VdHg4dG.png

Brenics

Wonder how long before they do this with other games. Personally I think we should start boycotting ESO and Steam. I never wanted to install Skyrim on steam but after I bought the game from EB it was automatic to put on steam.

ducesettutam

Appears Valve has now consented that the idea was poorly thought out and they have now dropped it.

 

http://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218

SpottyGekko

Clickbait much with the post title, eh OP ?

 

Skyrim mods on Steam don't suddenly all cost money. All that's happened is that Steam/Bethesda have put in place a mechanism whereby those modders that CHOOSE to charge for their work can do so.

 

It is voluntary, no modder is compelled to charge for anything if they don't want to.

 

The much vaunted "spirit of modding" (if such a thing ever existed) is still intact. I personally believe the only reason mods have always been "free" is because it's quite likely that game developers would have taken legal action against any modders that tried to sell their mods without paying royalties to the game developer. That, and the fact that most mods just aren't worth paying for individually.

 

EDIT: It seems that user feedback does still make a difference at Steam, seeing as they've cancelled the whole concept of allowing modders to charge for their mods.

Soki123

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Clickbait much with the post title, eh OP ?

 

Skyrim mods on Steam don't suddenly all cost money. All that's happened is that Steam/Bethesda have put in place a mechanism whereby those modders that CHOOSE to charge for their work can do so.

 

It is voluntary, no modder is compelled to charge for anything if they don't want to.

 

The much vaunted "spirit of modding" (if such a thing ever existed) is still intact. I personally believe the only reason mods have always been "free" is because it's quite likely that game developers would have taken legal action against any modders that tried to sell their mods without paying royalties to the game developer. That, and the fact that most mods just aren't worth paying for individually.

Bingo. I love how people get all up in arms over, IMO, nothing. Don t buy it, if you think it s too much. I think it s about time some get some money for their efforts.

mrBurns210

Seems Valve has cancelled the program. I think it is a shame.

-This could have enticed MORE Game Publishers to encourage a modding community  ( seeing as it could potentially bring in more revenue ).

-Brought in more people into modding as potential money is a great motivator. 

-Purely voluntary on behalf of the mod creator and consumer of mods. How can you knock that?

-There still would have been FREE mods.

Manestream

Simple, Stop using those Mods that charge, then push teh game programmers to make changes themselves.

Aethaeryn

People do not have to charge for them.  Nothing will change unless modders want it to.  They can even try to sell it on Steam and give it away free somewhere else like Nexus.

The publisher decides on the percentage etc.  How it is divided is still unknown.

I personally don't care except that the 25% for modders in this case is very low and you could buy a mod that is later unsupported after an update etc.  I think it is a bad idea but no one has to do it.

I fully expect they will remove it at some point after there are more and more problems.

Xundiin

You people make me laugh. the really crappy Steam Workshop is not the only place to get mods. And is by far not the biggest place that mods exist.

 

Nexus is staying free for mods and will be for the foreseeable future. Loverslab also has a ton of mods, even some that are not on Nexus. And there is another site that I can't remember the name of that also caries mods. Steam advertises with 24k mods... yet Nexus counts over 48k. So yeah.... Stop using the workshop and learn to use Nexus Mod manager or MO.