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Now I understand why groups arent forced.
makasouleater69
Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
Well i use to be a person who thought games like eq where the best, with the forced grouping extra. I no longer believe that, it was good back in the day, but no longer. I was doing a grouped mission.... The problem here is I dont think people understand how to work together for one, and 2 are just plain stupid. Stupid being that they will join a group mission that takes any where from 30min- a hour and half, and be like every one hurry, I got to leave soon. Seriously, why the hell would you even join a thing like that? Secondly the concept of group based play seems to be at a lost, I am gonna blame it slightly on single player being really easy. You have people that cant understand that single player, and group in this game are totally different, example, when you play by your self, you pretty much can just do anything, and live. I mean just hit like 1 button, and basically the things die. When you get into a group, you cant do this. So you get people who are dps or heals, just like jumping everything, and dying in like 3 seconds, and go what the hell is going on.
I suppose I may be a bit harsh lol, cause I dont save stupid people, such as a dps pulling everything, I just let them die. Or healers who pull ect, in the hope they will figure out whats going on, prolly not though. I am seriously glad though grouping is not forced in any ways, i could not take it for long, before i would quit. Some times you get good groups all day, and others like today, 2 bad groups in a row.
Great thing about SWTOR is, that all you do is go do your own thing, or join pvp. I know understand why a game that focuses totally on forced grouping, would totally fail as a game today.
Comments
I like you, OP! The reason is, because it was always this way!
Back in the day, although there were harsh penalties/consequences for being wreckless like this, and getting your entire party wiped, among other things that could go wrong, like being uninvited from a party for going AFK, people STILL did those things. "WOW! Really?," you might ask. Yes, really. And people forgave each other. It's as simple as that. The thing is, game developers came to realise, that the design of the gamew as unforgiving, not the players themselves. So they adapted the game to be forgiving. The question is, have the players become unforgiving, in such a forgiving game world design that we have now? Do we need to return, or is there still hope?
I have come to find that it's a bit of both, and that there is NO REASON to punish everyone all together. However, I also do not see a reason that an old school MMORPG cannot exist today. Is that strange to you? That may sound a bit contradictive to some.
Trust me, some people used other people like they use a tool back in those days. Minstrels used to just play the power song and go afk for 10+ hours! I would defend this bad behaviour, and blame it on that the game takes too long. But I never really fully meant it, still, that's where games headed towards; shortening the time needed to play, less forced grouping, to the point where now those topics are demonized, when in fact those are where WE CAME FROM. I am astonished by that , but not, at the same time, because I understand. Is it Love, or Hate?
We learn from our mistakes.
And I'm pretty sure that's the philosophy most game developers have adopted regarding forced grouping.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
But I didn't call it a mistake. Or are you saying that that is what you see it as? It wasn't a wrong system. In fact, I really enjoyed it more than the new systems. So much so, that I look for it all the time to go back to!
It didn't appeal to a broad audience, so from a business point of view, it probably was considered a mistake by the developers.
There's a reason that the large companies have steered clear of it for the last decade, and that the Indies are jumping to fill the niche.
That's not to say it can't be fun in the right game, built for the right audience. (Which games such as the Repopulation, Shroud of the Avatar, Pantheon Rise of the Fallen, and several others are going for.)
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
Many of the earlier MMOs lost a lot of people due to the forced grouping (and other issues). I share the same tastes as you. I enjoy grouping when I want to.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Add that overtime the majority of players ended up concentrated at the end-game level and anything mid to low level is a bottleneck to new players retention in a themepark MMO...
In regard to SWTOR, I stopped grouping for FP because most people just want to skip all the cutscenes when I just want to watch them. I'm also wary of terrible players, I mean I can understand that you don't have the greatest response time and have issues reading the flow of the fight, but not regenerating you health before engaging a boss that just killed you? That's a bit much for me (I've seen it in SWTOR).
The OP has a point - things are different now in that those idiotic things some people have always done in group content are much more common than they used to be... people Q'ing as tanks or healers who aren't (if the game lets them) just to shorten their own Q time... habitual CC breakers in dual-boss fights, passengers who do nothing, the ADHD hurry-uppers... last time I booted SWTOR I experienced all of that very, very frequently.
A lot of people who would like to group more (raises hand) avoid grouping because it really is a royal PITA these days - there were always grouping problems in every MMO, but just a fraction of how often it happens now.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
You get them on every game tbh. I've seen my share on WoW a couple of years ago too.
Heck, even on City of Heroes you got them every now and then.
Back when DDO was still a sub-only game those ADHD douches ruined it for me. It was impossible to solo, and every quest group I did I got at least one or two that rushed ahead of the group in stealth and quickly clicked through all the quest dialogues. (Which you could only see if you were close enough.)
Which led to a swift cancellation of my account. If I can't even follow the stories I play through, you're not getting my money, Turbine.
Fortunately they improved that aspect a lot by the time they relaunched as F2P.
I pretend I can't hear them. xD
Or go ahead and skip if I've done the FP already and don't particularly feel like watching it again right away.
The latter you can't do much about sadly, except kick them or shame them by calling them out on their nonsense. (Which may not even help.)
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
One of the reasons I opt to play on RP server where available. I don't necessarily RP in SWTOR, but I found that the community there is much more relaxed when it comes to letting others enjoy the cutscenes they might not yet seen... Among other things
To be ENTIRELY fair on your "Why would you even join" point, I kinda sorta started up a Counter-Strike: GO competitive match the other day right before an interview I had at my school in 30 minutes for a work study job (I forgot what time it was at) I panicked, hit the back out button but it was too late. For those of you who don't know those matches take about an hour usually. I ended up finishing about a minute late because the team actually rushed the match. I know it's not saying much but sometimes these things do just happen either by mistake or out of the blue. I for one don't get TOO upset but if they say things like oh get rid of me for group content I would either have to restart or be at a disadvantage for, thats when I get upset.
I guess I stand on the other side of the fence on this one. I think MMOs died when they became soloable from 1 to cap. My first game was LOTRO where you had a huge number of fellowship (6 man) quests - hell, even the tutorial (!) area had one full-group quest. I remember wiping against that bull few hours into the game with a group of people who, like me, had no idea what "tank" or "healer" is.
The downside was that sometimes you had to wait until you have assembled a group before you could continue. But the upside was that by the time you hit the endgame, everyone knew how to play their class in a group environment, not even mentioning the awesome moments you can only really enjoy in a group.
Nobody likes or wants forced grouping.
What we liked was encouraged grouping, and being rewarded for it. It was harder, so it needed incentives and deserved to be rewarded. The best games always give you multiple ways to play.
I levelled to 60 in SWTOR by doing FPs about 90 percent of the time. Soloing is so dull I may as well not play. In fact I dont play now because it takes too long to get a group.
I play as a jedi sage healer and as long as I have a decent tank with me I dont care who the dpsers are.
If I have to sit through another NPC on yet another planet telling me 1000th version of his lifestory, with pretty animations, I think I would fall off my chair while falling asleep. I dont want to be told stories - I have a TV and books for that, I want interaction, challenge and communication. That is why I play online games, not to watch NPCs drone at me and then steamroll through content with one eye while I watch TV with the other.
Except for forced grouping in every raid and every dungeon of almost any MMORPG plus every 5v5 MOBA and any group based game that forces you on a team where literally millions of people like it.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/There's multiple aspects to that.
1) As with anything that is enjoyed, you get people who view it from a point of nostalgia and are resistant to change (whether or not it's good).
2) Group Dynamics will always have a higher potential for fun, because there is more going on, and successfully coordinating with others to achieve a goal is always satisfying (providing you aren't doing most/all of the work yourself).
3) Because of the prevalence of single-player games, and specifically the 'you're the hero' mindset, that rewards absolutely everything for doing absolutely nothing; stupidity has been getting rewarded over the years. People aren't getting as punished for their mistakes, because it's not fun, and most people aren't willing to accept the fact that they screwed up in a video game. They want good, easy fun. Not challenge.
Put them together and you got an uphill battle for forced grouping. I won't say it's outdated, because there are definitely aspects of it that are more enjoyable than soloing, but soloing is definitely easier, especially when dealing w/ the average person on the internet.
Yes, that was a part of the bad system that existed in EQ, that carried in WoW and modern MMOs.
Properly designed pre WoW MMOs (of which there were dozens) didn't have those same design flaws as EQ. Raiding in DAoC obviously required a lot of people for some monsters. And fewer for others. That's what makes a raid, you can't have a solo raid.
But you could very easily solo in dungeons.
True.
For those ADHD types that tell everyone to space bar....I have fun with them and always do not press the spacebar but insist I did.
side note: ii hate having to come here via phone browser. How about an app guys?
I dont know what CS competitive match is, but in SWTOR, there is no accidentally doing that. You have to click the group finder, and then it loads up with with a ready screen you have to click, then it has another travel now message.
Yep I agree. Thankfully SWTOR does this well.
MOBAs arent even comparable to SWTOR, or any MMO. As for raids and dungeons, I dont know what MMOPRG you are talking about, but in SWTOR, none of that is forced upon you, you can get just as good equipment from doing other things.
Requiring grouping in a game designed around convenience will work about as well as selling 5 star meals in a fast food restaurant.
Its not that there is anything inherently wrong with games that encourage or even require teamwork to progress one's character, its that you can't expect it to work very well with a playerbase accustomed to soloing and convenience.
I thank my lucky stars every day that the /ignore function will keep me from being queued up with a blocked player.
My main is a healer, and recently I have seen a lot of people queue-ing up as tanks and being in DPS stances/forces. I'll politely point it out, I usually don't notice until I'm like "WHY THE $%(% AM I HEALING MYSELF THIS WHOLE FIGHT?" in my head. Most folks say something like "Oh crap, I was soloing *xyz* before I came in here, my bad bro!"
Some just ignore, or say they don't care. That's when that old ignore function comes in handy!
My experiences with the community and pugs in SWTOR has overall been more positive than anything I could compare it to in recent years. The last game I had such consistent positive community interactions with was CoX. But when it goes bad in SWTOR, on those rare occasions, it is usually as bad as anything I could compare it to save dungeon leveling in WoW.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Yup. And it is not native to SWTOR, although I won't play SWTOR any more because of the community, and the same for WoW. Community (IMO) can make or break a game. It's crucial (to me) to find a group of like-minded people and play with them exclusively. Pick up groups are just bad news. With the push to bring console and PC gaming together, I only see the issue becoming worse. Unfortunate.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
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