After reading this article I have to wonder what MMO's the writer did play if these points all seems so innovating to him. I also don't like the tone of the article , set by sentences like : ' This is an aspect of ESO I feel players overlook or don’t really understand how awesome this is. "
With a little research the writer of this article would have known that there is nothing new about any of those three listed points. Someone else already mentioned The Secret World.
Point 1 : TSW, GW2, GW1, EVE (probably more that I already forgot)
Point 2: TSW
Point 3 : Too many to list. Some of them way back (like Ultima Online and SWG). Or more recently Fallen Earth , EVE and a bunch of open world PVP mmo's.
This is just funny : "This is one of the aspects I think players take for granted. Either they are new players to the MMORPG genre or have just forgot how incredibly restricted game classes used to be. This type of character freedom is going to be the future for MMORPGs. At character creation you won’t be picking a class anymore. Instead you will design your character and as you play you will build the class that you want.."
They take it for granted probably because there is nothing new about it!
If anything, that freedom of choice idea has been dug up by archeologists who found remnants of MMO's like Ultima Online and SWG. Not to mention that you don't even have to look to the past, TSW does this too. No classes, even more choices in fighting styles, minimalistic UI, and megaserver technology.
Oh I am not some TSW zealot btw. It is just a handy example because its fairly recent and many here on MMORPG.com know about it.
The non vet (EU) PvP is superb at the moment, my guild all have alts playing in it. The vet ones are still awful (and unplayable due to lag for most)
The games improved a lot since release, at the same time it's also gone down hill in many areas. Far to easy now, the few really challenging bosses completely nerfed. While they have fixed many bugs, there's still far too many still there a year after release that were pointed out in beta.
Weapon swapping is still temperamental at the height of battle, thats my biggest annoyance at the moment.
There's a lot of trepidation about the console release, mainly due to lack of chat, for example how can someone at a keep let the rest of the PvP faction know it's under attack.
There's a LOT ESO does right, there's also a LOT it does wrong. Almost everyone I know that PvPs on the PC uses addoons of some kind. I have a worrying suspicion many console players will find the lack of addons unbearable and move on elsewhere.
It all depends how you play the game of course, if your rolepolaying or treating it like a solo game etc, you may well be very happy with the minimalist UI, however if your not, most will have some extras not available for the console.
I think this could have been (and still could) be the best mmo for years, but Zenimax has shown really bad customer service, not responded timely to customer complaints, and stuck their heels in for things that the majority are crying out for.
Sure some people are happy with it as Zenimax giives it, but for every 1 player that is, and plays without any addons there's probably 1000 that isn't, again it depends what your goal is and how you intend to play the game.
The reporting on TESO in the past few weeks talking up the game just as the console release is due. also has a hint of being paid to talk up the game.
Don't get me wrong, I love ESO, I play it every day, but there's a LOT wrong with it and I think there's a LOT that needs fixing before releasing on console. I know it's already been delayed another year, but imo, release it now, far too many people will try it very briefly then move on never returning (even if it does improve down the line)
At the height of PvP when I'm looking at a group of enemies, I don't notice any buffs on my appearance at all, I would be interested to know how many players (ini big PvP battles) do notice them without addons, luckily on the PC, we have addons to fix this, sadly not on the console though.
I would have thought that 'Actually spent money on writing quests' would have been in there, but yours are fine too. I think by this point I'm just one of the few left who don't click through quest text or dialog, which is a shame when it comes to ESO because they put more resources into the questing than is usual and it shows.
ESO biggest problem is this. They have forgotten that they got a PC audiance who are playing hte game. All they are doing today is the console release... where is the new zones? Where is new stuff for PC players? We have been forgotten sadly.
Love the game, but what they are doing might actually break the game. Splitting the player base to thin on 3 diffrent platforms who both got EU and American servers is not good for business.
as a old timer in mmorpg games the op is not wrong. Been playing these games since early UK and eq beta. With tens of thousands of hours under me I think I am some what qualified to have a decent opinion in the matter. And while I do not play ESO, op makes valid points. EQN will learn and adapt from what ESO did and has a solid shot in the mmoverse
Not surprised at the content of the OP's article since he has been a non-wavering super fan of ESO since the beginning. Isn't he the one that also had the Emmy worthy, "This week in ESO" show on this site or something?
This is just an another opinion piece that MMORPG.com uses to stir the pot. Of course the fans come to the rescue to defend the OP against the non-fans countering the points. Business as usual.
For my two cents, the only thing more MMOs need to do that ESO is doing is the B2P subscription model. Of course, other MMOs have already started that trend a while ago so it's good to see ESO jump on the bandwagon for that one after it's failed attempt at a subscription.
For my two cents, the only thing more MMOs need to do that ESO is doing is the B2P subscription model. Of course, other MMOs have already started that trend a while ago so it's good to see ESO jump on the bandwagon for that one after it's failed attempt at a subscription.
B2P fails too since the prices for the game already dropped to $8, yes EIGHT bucks! I think that says a lot about the value of the game. I doubt the Console release will change that.
For my two cents, the only thing more MMOs need to do that ESO is doing is the B2P subscription model. Of course, other MMOs have already started that trend a while ago so it's good to see ESO jump on the bandwagon for that one after it's failed attempt at a subscription.
B2P fails too since the prices for the game already dropped to $8, yes EIGHT bucks! I think that says a lot about the value of the game. I doubt the Console release will change that.
I would really like to know where you can find the game now for 8 bucks. I think that was maybe possible before they announced buy to play but not now.
I LOVE Elder Scrolls, I LOVE mmorpg's.....so why can't I LOVE this game?!
ESO feels like a single player game set in the elder scrolls universe, but it does not feel like an Elder Scrolls game, nor does it feel like an MMO at all. It feels more like a Guild Wars hub type mulitplayer game than it doesan MMO. I hate the megaserver crap, which destroys any chance of community, and I hate the temp wars/scoreboard in the pvp that claims to be the 2nd coming of daoc.
Originally posted by Thillian The same could be said about The Secret World, it has minimalistic UI, megaserver technology AND over 300 skills you choose from and combine in any way you like.
Exactly what came to my mind when I saw the title.
if only the secret world had some more aging friendly graphics and a more dynamic visceral combat system...
i've played every mmo that came out after world of warcraft. (anything with Real-Time Strategy in it is-not and should-not be considered an mmo). That being said Eso i installed played until i got out of the first murkey area and logged of because there was no immerison. It feels like a more basic world of warcraft. the only difference is you have control over your character using the mouse. Theres not special about ESO unless you're a Elder Scrolls fan. But even then I believe they ruined for those players. IT feels too bland.
I just started playing ESO a little over a month ago after I finally decided I could not happily play WOW anymore.I am one of the very unhappy patrons that have shown their dislike for the new WoD by unsubscribing. I enjoy the flexibility of ESO, especially when I create my unique character and how these choices continue throughout the game as I level up. I also love the way a person can assist killing a boss or the mobs and can get credit for the quest or dungeon even if I'm not in the group. Solo dungeons are a plus for a player like me, one who enjoys the solitary path. The search for treasure and crafting materials also pleases the explorer in me.
For my two cents, the only thing more MMOs need to do that ESO is doing is the B2P subscription model. Of course, other MMOs have already started that trend a while ago so it's good to see ESO jump on the bandwagon for that one after it's failed attempt at a subscription.
B2P fails too since the prices for the game already dropped to $8, yes EIGHT bucks! I think that says a lot about the value of the game. I doubt the Console release will change that.
What's price got to do with it. What's the price of a SWTOR retail box? Ummmmm, $0!!!!
Right now they're simply in a transitional phase between B2P and F2P. Right now there is enough value left to charge SOMETHING. Whatever that amount is. As long as there is still a demand, they'll sell boxes. The actual COST of the box is completely inconsequential since they're really just trying to get people playing it (because that's how they convert new subs or cash shop purchases).
I'm a little miffed that they got me with the $20 console version, though, if I can get it for $8 elsewhere.
I think the megaserver would have been a lot better had they not included phasing. I am personally not a fan of a single player story line in an MMO. One of these days maybe we will see a game world change based off of how the community interacts with the world / quests.
Originally posted by NightHaveN They use a modified Hero Engine. It can handle more than 32 kittens in Yavin IV.
No they are not going full free 2 play in the short term. Maybe 8 to 10 months at least from console launch. But you should stop asking for people to work for free for you. If you are in that free giving mood, then why don't you work for me for free. I'm sure I can find something for you to do like dishes, pick up dog droppings.
I don't care for the mega-server tech at all and it's one of the reasons I don't play the game any more. I think it hurts the player economy and community.
I like freedom of choice to a certain extent but I also think it creates problems with trying to maintain balance between the classes.
I really don't care either way about the UI. Personally, there's information I like to have on my screen when playing an MMO and when I played ESO I used add-ons to add those things.
Originally posted by NightHaveN They use a modified Hero Engine. It can handle more than 32 kittens in Yavin IV.
No they are not going full free 2 play in the short term. Maybe 8 to 10 months at least from console launch. But you should stop asking for people to work for free for you. If you are in that free giving mood, then why don't you work for me for free. I'm sure I can find something for you to do like dishes, pick up dog droppings.
No hero engine, the engine used in ESO is actually the Havoc engine, but they both begin with H so maybe thats where you get confused
this article is a joke. written by a fanboy? megaserver eliminates possibility of any choice at all. youre right, this could turn into the next great debate, but i guess this is a paragraph of just your opinion. minimalistic ui is GOOD? how about a highly customizeable UI with the option to BECOME minimalistic to your needs. less freedom and choice right there again. and finally freedom of choice. "I have yet to play a game that offers the amount of unrestricted choices that ESO has". you really need to play more games if this is the first one you've come across. i'm sorry i've been too harsh on you. i know nothing about how much of a MMO Veteran you are, yet you are still writing articles.
I would have preferred ESO to take a closer approach like all other Elder Scroll games and went with a classless approach to the game allowing us to choose how we want to play. Being able to mix and match some of the Dragonknight's Fire abilities with the Sorcerer's abilities while using a destruction staff would have been fantastic. You would still be limited to make a decision on what abilities to use for your 5+1. If anyone has played ArcheAge, I really enjoyed their method of classless progression. Being able to mix and matching trees which gave a unique title but allowed me to choose how I wanted to play. They could have gone even farther with the Books and Lore system and made some abilities difficult to find/learn but now you're bringing out the nerd in me and we need to keep is somewhat simple.
Obviously there would have been a linear upgrade tree granting access to the stronger versions of each current classes' abilities but giving us the TRUE freedom to play how we want would have been something that would have kept me around longer. Not being locked in to a single class of abilities and only getting to choose what weapon skills I want. You gave me a small taste of freedom and choice but I wanted the full experience. I like skill trees. The more you use the skills in that tree the more you can unlock. Why couldn't they have done that for the Nightblade, Sorcerer, Dragonknight, and Templar as well? No matter how you role you are still stuck to using 5 abilities and 1 ultimate so cross class specilization would have been exciting. In PvP you see a Nightblade and generally know what to expect. With my idea, you would see a "Random generated title based on amount of points spend into each tree pertaining to the ES lore" and would not know what to expect.
I wish a game would come out based in an exciting world that we know about and remove the bounds of classes and levels and purely dive in to a skill based system with limitations for specializing in certain areas. Much like UO. Basically, I want a more refined and graphically updated version of UO in an exciting universe.
Comments
After reading this article I have to wonder what MMO's the writer did play if these points all seems so innovating to him. I also don't like the tone of the article , set by sentences like : ' This is an aspect of ESO I feel players overlook or don’t really understand how awesome this is. "
With a little research the writer of this article would have known that there is nothing new about any of those three listed points. Someone else already mentioned The Secret World.
Point 1 : TSW, GW2, GW1, EVE (probably more that I already forgot)
Point 2: TSW
Point 3 : Too many to list. Some of them way back (like Ultima Online and SWG). Or more recently Fallen Earth , EVE and a bunch of open world PVP mmo's.
This is just funny : "This is one of the aspects I think players take for granted. Either they are new players to the MMORPG genre or have just forgot how incredibly restricted game classes used to be. This type of character freedom is going to be the future for MMORPGs. At character creation you won’t be picking a class anymore. Instead you will design your character and as you play you will build the class that you want.."
They take it for granted probably because there is nothing new about it!
If anything, that freedom of choice idea has been dug up by archeologists who found remnants of MMO's like Ultima Online and SWG. Not to mention that you don't even have to look to the past, TSW does this too. No classes, even more choices in fighting styles, minimalistic UI, and megaserver technology.
Oh I am not some TSW zealot btw. It is just a handy example because its fairly recent and many here on MMORPG.com know about it.
The non vet (EU) PvP is superb at the moment, my guild all have alts playing in it. The vet ones are still awful (and unplayable due to lag for most)
The games improved a lot since release, at the same time it's also gone down hill in many areas. Far to easy now, the few really challenging bosses completely nerfed. While they have fixed many bugs, there's still far too many still there a year after release that were pointed out in beta.
Weapon swapping is still temperamental at the height of battle, thats my biggest annoyance at the moment.
There's a lot of trepidation about the console release, mainly due to lack of chat, for example how can someone at a keep let the rest of the PvP faction know it's under attack.
There's a LOT ESO does right, there's also a LOT it does wrong. Almost everyone I know that PvPs on the PC uses addoons of some kind. I have a worrying suspicion many console players will find the lack of addons unbearable and move on elsewhere.
It all depends how you play the game of course, if your rolepolaying or treating it like a solo game etc, you may well be very happy with the minimalist UI, however if your not, most will have some extras not available for the console.
I think this could have been (and still could) be the best mmo for years, but Zenimax has shown really bad customer service, not responded timely to customer complaints, and stuck their heels in for things that the majority are crying out for.
Sure some people are happy with it as Zenimax giives it, but for every 1 player that is, and plays without any addons there's probably 1000 that isn't, again it depends what your goal is and how you intend to play the game.
The reporting on TESO in the past few weeks talking up the game just as the console release is due. also has a hint of being paid to talk up the game.
Don't get me wrong, I love ESO, I play it every day, but there's a LOT wrong with it and I think there's a LOT that needs fixing before releasing on console. I know it's already been delayed another year, but imo, release it now, far too many people will try it very briefly then move on never returning (even if it does improve down the line)
At the height of PvP when I'm looking at a group of enemies, I don't notice any buffs on my appearance at all, I would be interested to know how many players (ini big PvP battles) do notice them without addons, luckily on the PC, we have addons to fix this, sadly not on the console though.
ESO biggest problem is this. They have forgotten that they got a PC audiance who are playing hte game. All they are doing today is the console release... where is the new zones? Where is new stuff for PC players? We have been forgotten sadly.
Love the game, but what they are doing might actually break the game. Splitting the player base to thin on 3 diffrent platforms who both got EU and American servers is not good for business.
Minimalistic UI but the PVE end game it's like WOW so you have to install addons to get the numbers to min max stats,dps,healing ecc.
Megaservers and the quests with moral choices are good but a Elder Scrolls game without sandbox elements it's a shame.
Not surprised at the content of the OP's article since he has been a non-wavering super fan of ESO since the beginning. Isn't he the one that also had the Emmy worthy, "This week in ESO" show on this site or something?
This is just an another opinion piece that MMORPG.com uses to stir the pot. Of course the fans come to the rescue to defend the OP against the non-fans countering the points. Business as usual.
For my two cents, the only thing more MMOs need to do that ESO is doing is the B2P subscription model. Of course, other MMOs have already started that trend a while ago so it's good to see ESO jump on the bandwagon for that one after it's failed attempt at a subscription.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
B2P fails too since the prices for the game already dropped to $8, yes EIGHT bucks! I think that says a lot about the value of the game. I doubt the Console release will change that.
I would really like to know where you can find the game now for 8 bucks. I think that was maybe possible before they announced buy to play but not now.
I LOVE Elder Scrolls, I LOVE mmorpg's.....so why can't I LOVE this game?!
ESO feels like a single player game set in the elder scrolls universe, but it does not feel like an Elder Scrolls game, nor does it feel like an MMO at all. It feels more like a Guild Wars hub type mulitplayer game than it doesan MMO. I hate the megaserver crap, which destroys any chance of community, and I hate the temp wars/scoreboard in the pvp that claims to be the 2nd coming of daoc.
if only the secret world had some more aging friendly graphics and a more dynamic visceral combat system...
I just started playing ESO a little over a month ago after I finally decided I could not happily play WOW anymore.I am one of the very unhappy patrons that have shown their dislike for the new WoD by unsubscribing. I enjoy the flexibility of ESO, especially when I create my unique character and how these choices continue throughout the game as I level up. I also love the way a person can assist killing a boss or the mobs and can get credit for the quest or dungeon even if I'm not in the group. Solo dungeons are a plus for a player like me, one who enjoys the solitary path. The search for treasure and crafting materials also pleases the explorer in me.
What's price got to do with it. What's the price of a SWTOR retail box? Ummmmm, $0!!!!
Right now they're simply in a transitional phase between B2P and F2P. Right now there is enough value left to charge SOMETHING. Whatever that amount is. As long as there is still a demand, they'll sell boxes. The actual COST of the box is completely inconsequential since they're really just trying to get people playing it (because that's how they convert new subs or cash shop purchases).
I'm a little miffed that they got me with the $20 console version, though, if I can get it for $8 elsewhere.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Hero engine - it isn't; was used for prototyping.
F2P - maybe but people who are waiting for Skyrim and Oblivion to go F2P are still waiting. (As for getting it for $8 good luck with that.)
And I thought the article was 3 things that other mmos could do; not 3 things unique to TESO or invented by Zenimax.
Then they will announce an expansion.
I don't care for the mega-server tech at all and it's one of the reasons I don't play the game any more. I think it hurts the player economy and community.
I like freedom of choice to a certain extent but I also think it creates problems with trying to maintain balance between the classes.
I really don't care either way about the UI. Personally, there's information I like to have on my screen when playing an MMO and when I played ESO I used add-ons to add those things.
No hero engine, the engine used in ESO is actually the Havoc engine, but they both begin with H so maybe thats where you get confused
I would have preferred ESO to take a closer approach like all other Elder Scroll games and went with a classless approach to the game allowing us to choose how we want to play. Being able to mix and match some of the Dragonknight's Fire abilities with the Sorcerer's abilities while using a destruction staff would have been fantastic. You would still be limited to make a decision on what abilities to use for your 5+1. If anyone has played ArcheAge, I really enjoyed their method of classless progression. Being able to mix and matching trees which gave a unique title but allowed me to choose how I wanted to play. They could have gone even farther with the Books and Lore system and made some abilities difficult to find/learn but now you're bringing out the nerd in me and we need to keep is somewhat simple.
Obviously there would have been a linear upgrade tree granting access to the stronger versions of each current classes' abilities but giving us the TRUE freedom to play how we want would have been something that would have kept me around longer. Not being locked in to a single class of abilities and only getting to choose what weapon skills I want. You gave me a small taste of freedom and choice but I wanted the full experience. I like skill trees. The more you use the skills in that tree the more you can unlock. Why couldn't they have done that for the Nightblade, Sorcerer, Dragonknight, and Templar as well? No matter how you role you are still stuck to using 5 abilities and 1 ultimate so cross class specilization would have been exciting. In PvP you see a Nightblade and generally know what to expect. With my idea, you would see a "Random generated title based on amount of points spend into each tree pertaining to the ES lore" and would not know what to expect.
That and fixing the freakin lag in Cyrodiil.
I like megaserver. Nothing worse than ghost town servers, or overpopulated "wait 20 minutes for your turn in the spawn camp."
Minimalist UI is a good one for me too - especially on console as a heavy UI on the big screen would be terrible.
Freedom of choice is a given.
I wish a game would come out based in an exciting world that we know about and remove the bounds of classes and levels and purely dive in to a skill based system with limitations for specializing in certain areas. Much like UO. Basically, I want a more refined and graphically updated version of UO in an exciting universe.