You said A and use it as a basis to ignore what I said, you denied saying A, I quote you where you say A, you have later said B and try to make out as if that is what you said in the first place. It had nothing to do with trains and EQ when it was said. And as for your agenda, I've already given you what you want mate if you'd just read what was actually said. I've said that the games and playstyle you advocate for have less interaction then many of the alternative. But if that's not enough, kill stealing, ninja loot and so on are a thing of the past (for the most part) even though if you deny I can harass someone verbally through chat I find it odd that you would consider kill stealing harassment.
blah blah blah ...
I guess you don't really have an argument that verbal harassment is possible. Note that I am not the only one that says it is not.
So verbal harassment is out ... other interactions that can be used to harass are not possible.
So tell me, what is your point? There is simply little, or no harassment in modern games, or are you still trying to claim otherwise.
Originally posted by cheyane Harassing through chat is quite impossible these days unless you make alts then it's still about another one sentence from ignore again. I used to love WoW or was it City of X where it said 'so and so is ignoring you'. I felt that gave a nice middle finger to whomever was trying to continue their harassment. Nothing like knowing you're being ignored to let you know you are that insignificant to the person you're trying to piss off.
It depends, in that short time before you block someone, someone can insult your race, creed or gender. I've seen it on more then one occasion in global chats where one person says something insulting and a bunch of others join in. So I can be exposed to the first persons comment and even though I block them I get a bunch of other crap slung before I can block everyone. Is it still considered harassment if the repeated slurs come from different people?
You said A and use it as a basis to ignore what I said, you denied saying A, I quote you where you say A, you have later said B and try to make out as if that is what you said in the first place. It had nothing to do with trains and EQ when it was said. And as for your agenda, I've already given you what you want mate if you'd just read what was actually said. I've said that the games and playstyle you advocate for have less interaction then many of the alternative. But if that's not enough, kill stealing, ninja loot and so on are a thing of the past (for the most part) even though if you deny I can harass someone verbally through chat I find it odd that you would consider kill stealing harassment.
blah blah blah ...
I guess you don't really have an argument that verbal harassment is possible. Note that I am not the only one that says it is not.
So verbal harassment is out ... other interactions that can be used to harass are not possible.
So tell me, what is your point? There is simply little, or no harassment in modern games, or are you still trying to claim otherwise.
I said what I've had to say already and as for us we are done. It's hard to have a discussion with someone when they can't be honest and their reply starts out with "blah blah blah"
You said A and use it as a basis to ignore what I said, you denied saying A, I quote you where you say A, you have later said B and try to make out as if that is what you said in the first place. It had nothing to do with trains and EQ when it was said. And as for your agenda, I've already given you what you want mate if you'd just read what was actually said. I've said that the games and playstyle you advocate for have less interaction then many of the alternative. But if that's not enough, kill stealing, ninja loot and so on are a thing of the past (for the most part) even though if you deny I can harass someone verbally through chat I find it odd that you would consider kill stealing harassment.
blah blah blah ...
I guess you don't really have an argument that verbal harassment is possible. Note that I am not the only one that says it is not.
So verbal harassment is out ... other interactions that can be used to harass are not possible.
So tell me, what is your point? There is simply little, or no harassment in modern games, or are you still trying to claim otherwise.
I said what I've had to say already and as for us we are done. It's hard to have a discussion with someone when they can't be honest and their reply starts out with "blah blah blah"
I can count on one hand the amount of times I agree with Nariusseldon on anything, but now is one of those times.
Frankly, today's MMOs are so unidimensional, there is nothing worth harassing anymore. I mean, I just logged off of Destiny after doing a strike. And, like all the strikes I've ever been on, I never spoke a word to anyone. Never even bothered to note the sex of the avatars. Or the race. Or the color...let alone the traits of the person playing. Why even bother to get to know these people either, when there's no way for people to express their personhood anymore through play?
While many of us don't consider Destiny an MMO, its lack of texture is just the same as many MMOs. Everything is just rote combat. Avatars are limited in their ability to visually express life. Heck...you can't even chat anymore in spatial. And any interactions done between characters (if they exist at all) are limited to rote, smackless PvP.
Nariusseldon is right...there is no distinction between players characters and NPCs anymore, because they are both equally lifeless when it comes to the range of things they can do. Just as it makes no sense to harass an NPC (because its dead), it makes no sense to harass a player character, because it is equally lifeless.
Now Teamspeak banter, voice chat and all of that is a different story. I never considered that as part of the game, but a way for people to force real life to intrude on the game. And for those who experience harassment there, all I can say is that it isn't the game that creates the harassment, but what voice chatters impose on the game that creates the harassment.
Is it any wonder, then, why more and more people are leaving voice chat behind? The games don't really need it anymore (as if they ever did), players are discovering it's more trouble than its worth, and the whole concept of guilds or clans is dying.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
You said A and use it as a basis to ignore what I said, you denied saying A, I quote you where you say A, you have later said B and try to make out as if that is what you said in the first place. It had nothing to do with trains and EQ when it was said. And as for your agenda, I've already given you what you want mate if you'd just read what was actually said. I've said that the games and playstyle you advocate for have less interaction then many of the alternative. But if that's not enough, kill stealing, ninja loot and so on are a thing of the past (for the most part) even though if you deny I can harass someone verbally through chat I find it odd that you would consider kill stealing harassment.
blah blah blah ...
I guess you don't really have an argument that verbal harassment is possible. Note that I am not the only one that says it is not.
So verbal harassment is out ... other interactions that can be used to harass are not possible.
So tell me, what is your point? There is simply little, or no harassment in modern games, or are you still trying to claim otherwise.
I said what I've had to say already and as for us we are done. It's hard to have a discussion with someone when they can't be honest and their reply starts out with "blah blah blah"
I can count on one hand the amount of times I agree with Nariusseldon on anything, but now is one of those times.
Frankly, today's MMOs are so unidimensional, there is nothing worth harassing anymore. I mean, I just logged off of Destiny after doing a strike. And, like all the strikes I've ever been on, I never spoke a word to anyone. Never even bothered to note the sex of the avatars. Or the race. Or the color...let alone the traits of the person playing. Why even bother to get to know these people either, when there's no way for people to express their personhood anymore through play?
While many of us don't consider Destiny an MMO, its lack of texture is just the same as many MMOs. Everything is just rote combat. Avatars are limited in their ability to visually express life. Heck...you can't even chat anymore in spatial. And any interactions done between characters (if they exist at all) are limited to rote, smackless PvP.
Nariusseldon is right...there is no distinction between players characters and NPCs anymore, because they are both equally lifeless when it comes to the range of things they can do. Just as it makes no sense to harass an NPC (because its dead), it makes no sense to harass a player character, because it is equally lifeless.
Now Teamspeak banter, voice chat and all of that is a different story. I never considered that as part of the game, but a way for people to force real life to intrude on the game. And for those who experience harassment there, all I can say is that it isn't the game that creates the harassment, but what voice chatters impose on the game that creates the harassment.
Is it any wonder, then, why more and more people are leaving voice chat behind? The games don't really need it anymore (as if they ever did), players are discovering it's more trouble than its worth, and the whole concept of guilds or clans is dying.
The funny thing is I don't really disagree with anything you've said other then other than the lack of distinction between PCs and NPCs. I already gave him the fact the games he usually advocates for are more limited in social interactions than alternatives, I explained that my motives for quoting him in the context he used was only because he articulated a wider problem I believe is prevalent in the internet. I don't blame the games, hell give me more social interactions within these games, I think the rewards outweigh the risks.
The line I drew was that in almost any games that have grouping their is social interactions including chat and therefore there is the potential for harassment. I think I said I can't think of any games with grouping that is also without chat, now if he was refering to a game without any form of chat than why not just end the conversation by telling me that? I think he even mentioned WoW at one stage. But lets say he said some game with no form of chat or social interaction regarding chat. At that stage the worst I would have done is say what I believe and that is simply that I still don't think it's healthy to view humans as NPCs when you know they are not but that is a far lesser problem then harassment.
If players harass others, the atmosphere becomes toxic and unfun.
Compared to when I played EQ, harassment is much much more pronounced.
Players no longer need each other, all the content has become solo friendly and cash shop oriented, so your reputation is meaningless.
Being a jerk in an MMO no longer has a consequence.
This allows people who would have otherwise been tapped on their shoulder by a Guild officer, the community itself, or a GM, to thrive.
In fact, players care so little about others, that instead of the harassers being forced to leave the game because their repuation was so bad, the people GETTING harassed are actually the ones leaving the game.
Just terrible.
I think it largely depends on the game. I've been playing GW2 and everyone is just so extremely nice. Got back into Aion recently and everyone is so laid back and chill. In pvp its the usual "lol u bad u mad? get rekt". In league of legends it's probably the worst I've seen. I've literally been called a "N*gger F*ggot" before I mean...c'mon. I have of course been called far far FAR worse and had horrible things said to me. You know what I do, though? At the start of every game....I mute everyone. EVERYONE including my own team.
Anyone who sits around and lets themselves get harassed obviously doesn't realize that a block function exists. However I do enjoy that the OP didn't make this a gendered issue and realizes that everyone gets harassed and trolled online.
Originally posted by OhhPaigey Yeah, I've had to deal with some creepy stuff lmao.
The word "creepy" is vastly over used and has lost almost all meaning. What exactly classifies these interactions as creepy? Do you know the people irl? Are they saying condescending things to you? Making unwanted sexual advances? Or are they just being pervy young guys and you don't like it. I mean the range of what's creepy has been stretched so far it's possible to label anyone as creepy for any reason.
If players harass others, the atmosphere becomes toxic and unfun.
Compared to when I played EQ, harassment is much much more pronounced.
Players no longer need each other, all the content has become solo friendly and cash shop oriented, so your reputation is meaningless.
Being a jerk in an MMO no longer has a consequence.
This allows people who would have otherwise been tapped on their shoulder by a Guild officer, the community itself, or a GM, to thrive.
In fact, players care so little about others, that instead of the harassers being forced to leave the game because their repuation was so bad, the people GETTING harassed are actually the ones leaving the game.
Just terrible.
I think it largely depends on the game. I've been playing GW2 and everyone is just so extremely nice. Got back into Aion recently and everyone is so laid back and chill. In pvp its the usual "lol u bad u mad? get rekt". In league of legends it's probably the worst I've seen. I've literally been called a "N*gger F*ggot" before I mean...c'mon. I have of course been called far far FAR worse and had horrible things said to me. You know what I do, though? At the start of every game....I mute everyone. EVERYONE including my own team.
Anyone who sits around and lets themselves get harassed obviously doesn't realize that a block function exists. However I do enjoy that the OP didn't make this a gendered issue and realizes that everyone gets harassed and trolled online.
So in a team based game you mute everyone? I simply don't play it personally. What's the point of playing a competitive team based game if the community is so toxic you feel you must mute them before you even know them?
Originally posted by OhhPaigey Yeah, I've had to deal with some creepy stuff lmao.
By creepy, do you mean guys playing female characters sending you whispers of sweet nothings to your male characters?
Like people finding out my address, stalking me, getting my phone number, finding my characters on like every game, my Facebook, people sending me mail IRL, following me around different games, trying to send me money, trying to get me to quit my job to live with them, ect. And that's mainly just from WoW.
You wouldn't believe half the stories some of my guildys know/have been a part of rofl.
Heck, even some of the messages I've gotten on this forum would probably make you say 'wtf". XD
Alright. That makes a bit more sense, and is definitely creepy. I think when people commit actual crimes of real world stalking then there should be some action. If they were simply finding you on every game and looking at your facebook. Sure it's creepy, but not exactly illegal. The best you can do at that point is block/ignore them.
however for people who find your personal info...that's something to report to the police or FBI. Idk why more people don't do this. If someone finds you online and can present a real and credible threat to your safety REPORT IT! If you already have, then good on you - you're smarter than most.
Originally posted by Octagon7711 People feel they don't have to be accountable for what they do over the internet, that is until the Feds come knocking at their door or they get hit with and ancient curse and can't understand why a lot of bad things have been happening to them lately...
People feel like they don't have to be accountable because technically they don't. Unless their online actions translate into real world consequences. Like finding someones address and murdering them...yeah you get a free ticket to jail for that. Going through someone's facebook and liking every photo in the hopes that they will notice you? - creepy, yes, but not illegal. Block them and move along.
People trolling you in a forum or in a game? Block them and move along. Someone got ahold of your phone number and is now sending you extremely threatening texts - report their number to the police/FBI, call your service provider and have the number blocked (or get an app), and let the authorities investigate.
I think for the majority of "online harassment" that is purely online there is a fairly simple way of either avoiding it or solving your problem. For harassment that escapes the internet there are also solutions, though a bit more tiresome.
If players harass others, the atmosphere becomes toxic and unfun.
Compared to when I played EQ, harassment is much much more pronounced.
Players no longer need each other, all the content has become solo friendly and cash shop oriented, so your reputation is meaningless.
Being a jerk in an MMO no longer has a consequence.
This allows people who would have otherwise been tapped on their shoulder by a Guild officer, the community itself, or a GM, to thrive.
In fact, players care so little about others, that instead of the harassers being forced to leave the game because their repuation was so bad, the people GETTING harassed are actually the ones leaving the game.
Just terrible.
I think it largely depends on the game. I've been playing GW2 and everyone is just so extremely nice. Got back into Aion recently and everyone is so laid back and chill. In pvp its the usual "lol u bad u mad? get rekt". In league of legends it's probably the worst I've seen. I've literally been called a "N*gger F*ggot" before I mean...c'mon. I have of course been called far far FAR worse and had horrible things said to me. You know what I do, though? At the start of every game....I mute everyone. EVERYONE including my own team.
Anyone who sits around and lets themselves get harassed obviously doesn't realize that a block function exists. However I do enjoy that the OP didn't make this a gendered issue and realizes that everyone gets harassed and trolled online.
So in a team based game you mute everyone? I simply don't play it personally. What's the point of playing a competitive team based game if the community is so toxic you feel you must mute them before you even know them?
The game has a system called "smart pings" you can ping the map for a few things "im on my way" "be careful" "attack this person" "get out of there" that sort of thing
and most people prefer to use the pings. They only chat if they want to call you a noob. or tell you gj
If players harass others, the atmosphere becomes toxic and unfun.
Compared to when I played EQ, harassment is much much more pronounced.
Players no longer need each other, all the content has become solo friendly and cash shop oriented, so your reputation is meaningless.
Being a jerk in an MMO no longer has a consequence.
This allows people who would have otherwise been tapped on their shoulder by a Guild officer, the community itself, or a GM, to thrive.
In fact, players care so little about others, that instead of the harassers being forced to leave the game because their repuation was so bad, the people GETTING harassed are actually the ones leaving the game.
Just terrible.
I think it largely depends on the game. I've been playing GW2 and everyone is just so extremely nice. Got back into Aion recently and everyone is so laid back and chill. In pvp its the usual "lol u bad u mad? get rekt". In league of legends it's probably the worst I've seen. I've literally been called a "N*gger F*ggot" before I mean...c'mon. I have of course been called far far FAR worse and had horrible things said to me. You know what I do, though? At the start of every game....I mute everyone. EVERYONE including my own team.
Anyone who sits around and lets themselves get harassed obviously doesn't realize that a block function exists. However I do enjoy that the OP didn't make this a gendered issue and realizes that everyone gets harassed and trolled online.
So in a team based game you mute everyone? I simply don't play it personally. What's the point of playing a competitive team based game if the community is so toxic you feel you must mute them before you even know them?
The game has a system called "smart pings" you can ping the map for a few things "im on my way" "be careful" "attack this person" "get out of there" that sort of thing
and most people prefer to use the pings. They only chat if they want to call you a noob. or tell you gj
If players harass others, the atmosphere becomes toxic and unfun.
Compared to when I played EQ, harassment is much much more pronounced.
Players no longer need each other, all the content has become solo friendly and cash shop oriented, so your reputation is meaningless.
Being a jerk in an MMO no longer has a consequence.
This allows people who would have otherwise been tapped on their shoulder by a Guild officer, the community itself, or a GM, to thrive.
In fact, players care so little about others, that instead of the harassers being forced to leave the game because their repuation was so bad, the people GETTING harassed are actually the ones leaving the game.
Just terrible.
though you have a point, I came from FFXI, a if a player got a bad reputation, they might as well quit. Those days are gone because devs dont have the balls to make a game like those good old games. Even though I know they could be successful.
However I am not quitting a game because of other idiots. I expect more from an experienced MMO player from the good old days. Only this new generation runs around crying "booo hoo hoo i got my feelings hurt" so suck it up and let all these self entitlists run around do all the crying because they got their poor little feelings hurt.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
If players harass others, the atmosphere becomes toxic and unfun.
Compared to when I played EQ, harassment is much much more pronounced.
Players no longer need each other, all the content has become solo friendly and cash shop oriented, so your reputation is meaningless.
Being a jerk in an MMO no longer has a consequence.
This allows people who would have otherwise been tapped on their shoulder by a Guild officer, the community itself, or a GM, to thrive.
In fact, players care so little about others, that instead of the harassers being forced to leave the game because their repuation was so bad, the people GETTING harassed are actually the ones leaving the game.
Just terrible.
though you have a point, I came from FFXI, a if a player got a bad reputation, they might as well quit. Those days are gone because devs dont have the balls to make a game like those good old games. Even though I know they could be successful.
However I am not quitting a game because of other idiots. I expect more from an experienced MMO player from the good old days. Only this new generation runs around crying "booo hoo hoo i got my feelings hurt" so suck it up and let all these self entitlists run around do all the crying because they got their poor little feelings hurt.
Well that's not fair. How is someone self entitled because they refuse to play a game with a toxic community?
If players harass others, the atmosphere becomes toxic and unfun.
Compared to when I played EQ, harassment is much much more pronounced.
Players no longer need each other, all the content has become solo friendly and cash shop oriented, so your reputation is meaningless.
Being a jerk in an MMO no longer has a consequence.
This allows people who would have otherwise been tapped on their shoulder by a Guild officer, the community itself, or a GM, to thrive.
In fact, players care so little about others, that instead of the harassers being forced to leave the game because their repuation was so bad, the people GETTING harassed are actually the ones leaving the game.
Just terrible.
though you have a point, I came from FFXI, a if a player got a bad reputation, they might as well quit. Those days are gone because devs dont have the balls to make a game like those good old games. Even though I know they could be successful.
However I am not quitting a game because of other idiots. I expect more from an experienced MMO player from the good old days. Only this new generation runs around crying "booo hoo hoo i got my feelings hurt" so suck it up and let all these self entitlists run around do all the crying because they got their poor little feelings hurt.
Well that's not fair. How is someone self entitled because they refuse to play a game with a toxic community?
I think it has more to do with the entitlement of the players in todays games. Not saying everyone is like this but you see it a hell of a lot more and yes I realize its because there are more people playing MMORPG's now.
In EQ I could send a tell to someone and offer them advice on how to pull a little better or how to split that group of 6 casters (I played a monk obviously) and they would gladly welcome the feedback. If I do the same in a modern game I am usually told to go f*** myself.
Also the community in EQ was better. The server I played on we respected each other and the blacklists were well known by everyone not just a few guilds. Sure you could ninja loot that super awesome piece of equipment but it would be the last great upgrade you would ever see.
If players harass others, the atmosphere becomes toxic and unfun.
Compared to when I played EQ, harassment is much much more pronounced.
Players no longer need each other, all the content has become solo friendly and cash shop oriented, so your reputation is meaningless.
Being a jerk in an MMO no longer has a consequence.
This allows people who would have otherwise been tapped on their shoulder by a Guild officer, the community itself, or a GM, to thrive.
In fact, players care so little about others, that instead of the harassers being forced to leave the game because their repuation was so bad, the people GETTING harassed are actually the ones leaving the game.
Just terrible.
though you have a point, I came from FFXI, a if a player got a bad reputation, they might as well quit. Those days are gone because devs dont have the balls to make a game like those good old games. Even though I know they could be successful.
However I am not quitting a game because of other idiots. I expect more from an experienced MMO player from the good old days. Only this new generation runs around crying "booo hoo hoo i got my feelings hurt" so suck it up and let all these self entitlists run around do all the crying because they got their poor little feelings hurt.
Well that's not fair. How is someone self entitled because they refuse to play a game with a toxic community?
I think it has more to do with the entitlement of the players in todays games. Not saying everyone is like this but you see it a hell of a lot more and yes I realize its because there are more people playing MMORPG's now.
In EQ I could send a tell to someone and offer them advice on how to pull a little better or how to split that group of 6 casters (I played a monk obviously) and they would gladly welcome the feedback. If I do the same in a modern game I am usually told to go f*** myself.
Also the community in EQ was better. The server I played on we respected each other and the blacklists were well known by everyone not just a few guilds. Sure you could ninja loot that super awesome piece of equipment but it would be the last great upgrade you would ever see.
Man, I miss the days when you could PvP with someone and then send them friendly tells and tips like honorable rivals. That was one of my favorite things about the old days, and one of the reasons I grew fond of PvP. Friendly competition and mutual respect are so rare these days.
People in this world have just all gone bat**** nuts in the last couple decades. Considering people today would run you over in a parking lot just for walking past their car at the wrong time, I don't think people on the internet are bound to be too warm and cuddly
I guess moral decay is a bit of a philosophical side-step though from online gaming... but people are who they are. They are just more prone to showing themselves as their dark and crazy selves on the internet.
Maybe I should stop listening to all this 80s music I have playing on my desktop...
If players harass others, the atmosphere becomes toxic and unfun.
Compared to when I played EQ, harassment is much much more pronounced.
Players no longer need each other, all the content has become solo friendly and cash shop oriented, so your reputation is meaningless.
Being a jerk in an MMO no longer has a consequence.
This allows people who would have otherwise been tapped on their shoulder by a Guild officer, the community itself, or a GM, to thrive.
In fact, players care so little about others, that instead of the harassers being forced to leave the game because their repuation was so bad, the people GETTING harassed are actually the ones leaving the game.
Just terrible.
overgeneralized and fails to take the following into account:
- Not all MMOs are the same
- There are MMOs where player reputation means a lot
- harassment was alive and well in EQ1 since launch
- MMOs grew from less than 1 million total playerbase to 50+ million over the last 15 years, so there's more of everything
its nowhere as bad as described - its easy to avoid in almost every game, you are only a victim if you allow it
Originally posted by Kiyoris Originally posted by RhoklawOriginally posted by OhhPaigeyYeah, I've had to deal with some creepy stuff lmao.
By creepy, do you mean guys playing female characters sending you whispers of sweet nothings to your male characters?she means creepy as in guys sending harassment tells out of the blue, I'm pretty sure
just got another one when making this topic
apparently this creepo is attracted to my legs
that is on top of the random harassment that isn't sexually tinted
it goes both ways, there's girls who harass too
FFXIV is still somewhat ok regarding harassment, every other game is like a cesspool.
Whoa...you have played EVERY game out there? That is amazing, I am semi-retired and have alomost 10 hours a day to game if I want to (I don't) and I have not even come close to playing every game out there.
Your post is ridiculous and based on wild speculation and lets face it, some amount of bullshit.
Are there toxic gamers out there? Yes of course there are, is this issue nearly as bad as you make it out to be? No not at all.
I started gaming in 2003, my wife in 2006 she has one (1, uno) issue that required her to take action beyond just ignoring the idiot. It was pretty extreme, it was not sexually oriented in any way. So with going on 9 years of not quite hard core game play one issue stands out as being something more than using the ignore feature.
I tend to think that when this issue comes up, speaking to what the OP posted, that it tends to be more of a drama queen sort of thing. You put yourself out there, expect shit to come back at you. I have been in guilds/outfits/player associations with people like you, everything is everyone else fault and they all need to apologize to you.
In short, look to yourself for the solution to this problem, chances are you are the one causing it.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
EQ was and still is the best dam MMO to ever be created. Every other MMO since has been a pile of trash. MMO today are just like the people that play them simple minded dummies that have no idea how to play with other people. Game devs today are just as stupid. How and the hell do you think your MMOs today are any fun???? Why even make a MMO the dam game is 99% solo with no reason to even group up. Why is it that EQ made back in 1999(not the new EQ) is still better than any pos MMO that has come out since.
I've been playing MMOs since the early days of Asheron's Call and have gotten harrassed a few times and pretty harmless. A player following me around for a few minutes asking if I was a girl. My other female gaming buddy had someone stalking her for a few months....someone who she didn't know. She had to contact a GM at one point. She was heavily involved in the RP community at one point so she wasn't sure if it was someone she may have known. I agree with some of the earlier comment on this thread though. Some famale gamers attract this harassment through their actions I'm sad to stay. Without fail there always seems to be that attention seeking female in every guild I've joined who thrives on the attention but is the first to cry foul. Or the vocal girl in chat making innuendos and flirting and then getting angry if some guy takes the bait. For most of us gal players, we go about our business and happily game away.
As to overall harassment or griefing, I think it depends on the game and community. I didn't enjoy ArcheAge for example because players would find creative ways to ruin the fun for others. If there is a way to harass , some players will take every advantage. I'm playing wow WoW again for the 3 rd time and find it no different than 3 years ago. Many gamers, especially in group finder, are impatient little twits and will bully if something goes wrong. I think it os the nature of modern games and that is a shame.
Originally posted by kalimar42 EQ was and still is the best dam MMO to ever be created. Every other MMO since has been a pile of trash. MMO today are just like the people that play them simple minded dummies that have no idea how to play with other people. Game devs today are just as stupid. How and the hell do you think your MMOs today are any fun???? Why even make a MMO the dam game is 99% solo with no reason to even group up. Why is it that EQ made back in 1999(not the new EQ) is still better than any pos MMO that has come out since.
EQ introduced skinner box, gear treadmill, raid or die, combat centric gameplay. IMO, it set the genre on a shitty path we are just now finally getting out of. They took a genre that had limitless possibilities and shoved forced linear progression down our throats.
Originally posted by kalimar42 EQ was and still is the best dam MMO to ever be created. Every other MMO since has been a pile of trash. MMO today are just like the people that play them simple minded dummies that have no idea how to play with other people. Game devs today are just as stupid. How and the hell do you think your MMOs today are any fun???? Why even make a MMO the dam game is 99% solo with no reason to even group up. Why is it that EQ made back in 1999(not the new EQ) is still better than any pos MMO that has come out since.
EQ introduced skinner box, gear treadmill, raid or die, combat centric gameplay. IMO, it set the genre on a shitty path we are just now finally getting out of. They took a genre that had limitless possibilities and shoved forced linear progression down our throats.
plenty of non themepark games have been made since EQ that nobody gives a shit about, what's the problem?
Originally posted by OhhPaigey Yeah, I've had to deal with some creepy stuff lmao.
By creepy, do you mean guys playing female characters sending you whispers of sweet nothings to your male characters?
Like people finding out my address, stalking me, getting my phone number, finding my characters on like every game, my Facebook, people sending me mail IRL, following me around different games, trying to send me money, trying to get me to quit my job to live with them, ect. And that's mainly just from WoW.
You wouldn't believe half the stories some of my guildys know/have been a part of rofl.
Heck, even some of the messages I've gotten on this forum would probably make you say 'wtf". XD
Do you want to know why you have been dealing with creepy stuff? Because you are the only one in this thread using an actual photo as your avatar.
Let's check: Female sounding username, picture of female teenager as avatar, post about perceived online harassment. That's attention whoring 101.
It's people like you who give female gamers a bad reputation.
So what, we all have to go around pretending to be men or we're attention whores?
Sexual harassment aside, this other type of bullying is BEYOND obnoxious. I've seen my dude friends get harassed because they've used emoticons on their female characters. Apparently even the idea of being a female or talking about female issues really triggers some insecure people.
You don't know what's going on in her head, and while it's a good idea to not go looking for harassment, she is simply representing herself as a woman and talking about her experience as a woman with harassment. That is NOT attention whoring.
The line I drew was that in almost any games that have grouping their is social interactions including chat and therefore there is the potential for harassment. I think I said I can't think of any games with grouping that is also without chat, now if he was refering to a game without any form of chat than why not just end the conversation by telling me that? I think he even mentioned WoW at one stage. But lets say he said some game with no form of chat or social interaction regarding chat. At that stage the worst I would have done is say what I believe and that is simply that I still don't think it's healthy to view humans as NPCs when you know they are not but that is a far lesser problem then harassment.
Because you don't seem to be able to grasp the point that an "ignore" button is just as good.
Comments
blah blah blah ...
I guess you don't really have an argument that verbal harassment is possible. Note that I am not the only one that says it is not.
So verbal harassment is out ... other interactions that can be used to harass are not possible.
So tell me, what is your point? There is simply little, or no harassment in modern games, or are you still trying to claim otherwise.
It depends, in that short time before you block someone, someone can insult your race, creed or gender. I've seen it on more then one occasion in global chats where one person says something insulting and a bunch of others join in. So I can be exposed to the first persons comment and even though I block them I get a bunch of other crap slung before I can block everyone. Is it still considered harassment if the repeated slurs come from different people?
I said what I've had to say already and as for us we are done. It's hard to have a discussion with someone when they can't be honest and their reply starts out with "blah blah blah"
I can count on one hand the amount of times I agree with Nariusseldon on anything, but now is one of those times.
Frankly, today's MMOs are so unidimensional, there is nothing worth harassing anymore. I mean, I just logged off of Destiny after doing a strike. And, like all the strikes I've ever been on, I never spoke a word to anyone. Never even bothered to note the sex of the avatars. Or the race. Or the color...let alone the traits of the person playing. Why even bother to get to know these people either, when there's no way for people to express their personhood anymore through play?
While many of us don't consider Destiny an MMO, its lack of texture is just the same as many MMOs. Everything is just rote combat. Avatars are limited in their ability to visually express life. Heck...you can't even chat anymore in spatial. And any interactions done between characters (if they exist at all) are limited to rote, smackless PvP.
Nariusseldon is right...there is no distinction between players characters and NPCs anymore, because they are both equally lifeless when it comes to the range of things they can do. Just as it makes no sense to harass an NPC (because its dead), it makes no sense to harass a player character, because it is equally lifeless.
Now Teamspeak banter, voice chat and all of that is a different story. I never considered that as part of the game, but a way for people to force real life to intrude on the game. And for those who experience harassment there, all I can say is that it isn't the game that creates the harassment, but what voice chatters impose on the game that creates the harassment.
Is it any wonder, then, why more and more people are leaving voice chat behind? The games don't really need it anymore (as if they ever did), players are discovering it's more trouble than its worth, and the whole concept of guilds or clans is dying.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
The funny thing is I don't really disagree with anything you've said other then other than the lack of distinction between PCs and NPCs. I already gave him the fact the games he usually advocates for are more limited in social interactions than alternatives, I explained that my motives for quoting him in the context he used was only because he articulated a wider problem I believe is prevalent in the internet. I don't blame the games, hell give me more social interactions within these games, I think the rewards outweigh the risks.
The line I drew was that in almost any games that have grouping their is social interactions including chat and therefore there is the potential for harassment. I think I said I can't think of any games with grouping that is also without chat, now if he was refering to a game without any form of chat than why not just end the conversation by telling me that? I think he even mentioned WoW at one stage. But lets say he said some game with no form of chat or social interaction regarding chat. At that stage the worst I would have done is say what I believe and that is simply that I still don't think it's healthy to view humans as NPCs when you know they are not but that is a far lesser problem then harassment.
I think it largely depends on the game. I've been playing GW2 and everyone is just so extremely nice. Got back into Aion recently and everyone is so laid back and chill. In pvp its the usual "lol u bad u mad? get rekt". In league of legends it's probably the worst I've seen. I've literally been called a "N*gger F*ggot" before I mean...c'mon. I have of course been called far far FAR worse and had horrible things said to me. You know what I do, though? At the start of every game....I mute everyone. EVERYONE including my own team.
Anyone who sits around and lets themselves get harassed obviously doesn't realize that a block function exists. However I do enjoy that the OP didn't make this a gendered issue and realizes that everyone gets harassed and trolled online.
The word "creepy" is vastly over used and has lost almost all meaning. What exactly classifies these interactions as creepy? Do you know the people irl? Are they saying condescending things to you? Making unwanted sexual advances? Or are they just being pervy young guys and you don't like it. I mean the range of what's creepy has been stretched so far it's possible to label anyone as creepy for any reason.
So in a team based game you mute everyone? I simply don't play it personally. What's the point of playing a competitive team based game if the community is so toxic you feel you must mute them before you even know them?
Alright. That makes a bit more sense, and is definitely creepy. I think when people commit actual crimes of real world stalking then there should be some action. If they were simply finding you on every game and looking at your facebook. Sure it's creepy, but not exactly illegal. The best you can do at that point is block/ignore them.
however for people who find your personal info...that's something to report to the police or FBI. Idk why more people don't do this. If someone finds you online and can present a real and credible threat to your safety REPORT IT! If you already have, then good on you
- you're smarter than most.
People feel like they don't have to be accountable because technically they don't. Unless their online actions translate into real world consequences. Like finding someones address and murdering them...yeah you get a free ticket to jail for that. Going through someone's facebook and liking every photo in the hopes that they will notice you? - creepy, yes, but not illegal. Block them and move along.
People trolling you in a forum or in a game? Block them and move along. Someone got ahold of your phone number and is now sending you extremely threatening texts - report their number to the police/FBI, call your service provider and have the number blocked (or get an app), and let the authorities investigate.
I think for the majority of "online harassment" that is purely online there is a fairly simple way of either avoiding it or solving your problem. For harassment that escapes the internet there are also solutions, though a bit more tiresome.
The game has a system called "smart pings" you can ping the map for a few things "im on my way" "be careful" "attack this person" "get out of there" that sort of thing
and most people prefer to use the pings. They only chat if they want to call you a noob. or tell you gj
Fair enough.
though you have a point, I came from FFXI, a if a player got a bad reputation, they might as well quit. Those days are gone because devs dont have the balls to make a game like those good old games. Even though I know they could be successful.
However I am not quitting a game because of other idiots. I expect more from an experienced MMO player from the good old days. Only this new generation runs around crying "booo hoo hoo i got my feelings hurt" so suck it up and let all these self entitlists run around do all the crying because they got their poor little feelings hurt.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Well that's not fair. How is someone self entitled because they refuse to play a game with a toxic community?
I think it has more to do with the entitlement of the players in todays games. Not saying everyone is like this but you see it a hell of a lot more and yes I realize its because there are more people playing MMORPG's now.
In EQ I could send a tell to someone and offer them advice on how to pull a little better or how to split that group of 6 casters (I played a monk obviously) and they would gladly welcome the feedback. If I do the same in a modern game I am usually told to go f*** myself.
Also the community in EQ was better. The server I played on we respected each other and the blacklists were well known by everyone not just a few guilds. Sure you could ninja loot that super awesome piece of equipment but it would be the last great upgrade you would ever see.
Man, I miss the days when you could PvP with someone and then send them friendly tells and tips like honorable rivals. That was one of my favorite things about the old days, and one of the reasons I grew fond of PvP. Friendly competition and mutual respect are so rare these days.
People in this world have just all gone bat**** nuts in the last couple decades. Considering people today would run you over in a parking lot just for walking past their car at the wrong time, I don't think people on the internet are bound to be too warm and cuddly
I guess moral decay is a bit of a philosophical side-step though from online gaming... but people are who they are. They are just more prone to showing themselves as their dark and crazy selves on the internet.
Maybe I should stop listening to all this 80s music I have playing on my desktop...
This is why I play PvP games.
Let them shit talk
Let them whine
Let them cry
They all die
Sway all day, butterfly flaps all the way!
the thread ends at this post :P
she means creepy as in guys sending harassment tells out of the blue, I'm pretty sure
just got another one when making this topic
apparently this creepo is attracted to my legs
that is on top of the random harassment that isn't sexually tinted
it goes both ways, there's girls who harass too
FFXIV is still somewhat ok regarding harassment, every other game is like a cesspool.
Whoa...you have played EVERY game out there? That is amazing, I am semi-retired and have alomost 10 hours a day to game if I want to (I don't) and I have not even come close to playing every game out there.
Your post is ridiculous and based on wild speculation and lets face it, some amount of bullshit.
Are there toxic gamers out there? Yes of course there are, is this issue nearly as bad as you make it out to be? No not at all.
I started gaming in 2003, my wife in 2006 she has one (1, uno) issue that required her to take action beyond just ignoring the idiot. It was pretty extreme, it was not sexually oriented in any way. So with going on 9 years of not quite hard core game play one issue stands out as being something more than using the ignore feature.
I tend to think that when this issue comes up, speaking to what the OP posted, that it tends to be more of a drama queen sort of thing. You put yourself out there, expect shit to come back at you. I have been in guilds/outfits/player associations with people like you, everything is everyone else fault and they all need to apologize to you.
In short, look to yourself for the solution to this problem, chances are you are the one causing it.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
EQ was and still is the best dam MMO to ever be created. Every other MMO since has been a pile of trash. MMO today are just like the people that play them simple minded dummies that have no idea how to play with other people. Game devs today are just as stupid. How and the hell do you think your MMOs today are any fun???? Why even make a MMO the dam game is 99% solo with no reason to even group up. Why is it that EQ made back in 1999(not the new EQ) is still better than any pos MMO that has come out since.
I've been playing MMOs since the early days of Asheron's Call and have gotten harrassed a few times and pretty harmless. A player following me around for a few minutes asking if I was a girl. My other female gaming buddy had someone stalking her for a few months....someone who she didn't know. She had to contact a GM at one point. She was heavily involved in the RP community at one point so she wasn't sure if it was someone she may have known. I agree with some of the earlier comment on this thread though. Some famale gamers attract this harassment through their actions I'm sad to stay. Without fail there always seems to be that attention seeking female in every guild I've joined who thrives on the attention but is the first to cry foul. Or the vocal girl in chat making innuendos and flirting and then getting angry if some guy takes the bait. For most of us gal players, we go about our business and happily game away.
As to overall harassment or griefing, I think it depends on the game and community. I didn't enjoy ArcheAge for example because players would find creative ways to ruin the fun for others. If there is a way to harass , some players will take every advantage. I'm playing wow WoW again for the 3 rd time and find it no different than 3 years ago. Many gamers, especially in group finder, are impatient little twits and will bully if something goes wrong. I think it os the nature of modern games and that is a shame.
EQ introduced skinner box, gear treadmill, raid or die, combat centric gameplay. IMO, it set the genre on a shitty path we are just now finally getting out of. They took a genre that had limitless possibilities and shoved forced linear progression down our throats.
plenty of non themepark games have been made since EQ that nobody gives a shit about, what's the problem?
So what, we all have to go around pretending to be men or we're attention whores?
Sexual harassment aside, this other type of bullying is BEYOND obnoxious. I've seen my dude friends get harassed because they've used emoticons on their female characters. Apparently even the idea of being a female or talking about female issues really triggers some insecure people.
You don't know what's going on in her head, and while it's a good idea to not go looking for harassment, she is simply representing herself as a woman and talking about her experience as a woman with harassment. That is NOT attention whoring.
Get a grip.
Because you don't seem to be able to grasp the point that an "ignore" button is just as good.