DFUW decline question

Parepin

I want to wrap my head around this.  DFUW had a good playerbase.  Then roles were removed to an extent and each patch has moved it to be closer to a hybrid DF1.0 game.  Is that the main reason the population is so low?  These two reasons:

1. People who liked DFUW left because of the changes aligning it more with DF1.0.

2. People who liked DF1.0 didnt like the changes because its to hybrid.

I am considering making a petition to "reverse the DF1.0 changes to DFUW" to see how many people vote in it.  It's quite possible it could generate more votes than the current "bring back DF1.0" petition out.

kaiser3282

The game had lots of other issues aside from what you mention and though they started trying to improve things it was too little too late. Taking months and months to make simple changes and bug fixes while not communicating with the playerbase at all is not going to keep people around in either version of the game.

Boneserino

Here is an idea.

 

Why don't you start a Darkfall Underworld or whatever Kickstarter?   Get enough people to give you the money to buy the rights to the game.

 

Then change it to whatever you think it should be.

 

Then enjoy all the money that will roll in when people fall all over themselves to play the amazing game you have created!  

goboygo

I eventually tossed in the towel because they removed the roles with everyone quickly just becoming a clone of the next guy.   Cherry picking the best things from all the old roles then exploiting it.  Just a shame.

Cruizerke

Adventurine was and is what's wrong with Darkfall for both versions. As long as it stays in their hands it will never be as good as it could be.

eHug

I don't think the "class free" concept chased a lot of people away, it there was anything really bad about it, it was the way they actually did it. Many months of super cheesy builds, most people running around with the latest FOTM build, everybody wearing the same OP gear, shitloads of prowess wasted because AV wasn't able to get the balance right and constantly made important skills useless forcing players to use something else.  And of course that they wasted so many months on it. Instead they could have created shitloads of content different then their current  "let's multiply the grind for the absolute basics so a casual won't be able to gear up for sieges anymore, sorry i mean so the economy is fixed! Oh and let's make them run at least for an hour for a path that needed 10 minutes earlier".

The main points that chased me away were:

- AVs pathetic tries to fix the economy which resulted in a terrible new player experience making all of our clans newbies but a single guy quit. Not much fun for a newbie to grind for hours to loose their efforts in a minute because they weren't just less experienced but also couldn't afford the gear sets that the veterans that played a different game (focus on PVP instead of PVE) stack in their banks, having enough for years. A wipe would have fixed that, but they are too scared to do what it takes. They talked about a softwipe for a long time but it will come with even more pve grind boredom - if it ever will come.

- AVs instant transportation nerf. In an mostly empty world that doesn't even have NPC life just static 3d models forcing giant travel times is plain dumb. No way to get to your friends without a boring half an hour walk through an deslotated world? HORRIBLE IDEA! Ever since this change was done most people in our clan stopped logging in if they just got an hour of play time. It's not worth it anymore. The time requirements went through the roof and for what? Total boredom. (yes I know, in some months they plan changes, but couldn't they have waited for their patch to finish instead of making the game so much more boring for months and no actual reason?)

- AVs new vision of a pve sandbox, which they don't really have enough developers for. So along with some crafting fluff all they really introduce is grind for basic pvp gear. They also think about local banking which just means even more time spent on boring chores in an mostly empty world.

And no, I don't want to see the game die, the combat engine is amazing, but the developers lack the team size to change the game so fundamentally that it will really have the options and possibilities to attract the hardcore sandbox pve crowd that they now dream of. And while they chase that dream in small overrushed steps they are also chasing away the PVP and siege fans along with new players and casuals as far away as they can. To make it worse, the current population simply won't do for their new idea of localisation, if they don't attract hundreds of no lifing pve grind fans those changes won't work out.

goboygo

Originally posted by eHug

I don't think the "class free" concept chased a lot of people away, it there was anything really bad about it, it was the way they actually did it. Many months of super cheesy builds, most people running around with the latest FOTM build, everybody wearing the same OP gear, shitloads of prowess wasted because AV wasn't able to get the balance right and constantly made important skills useless forcing players to use something else.  And of course that they wasted so many months on it. Instead they could have created shitloads of content different then their current  "let's multiply the grind for the absolute basics so a casual won't be able to gear up for sieges anymore, sorry i mean so the economy is fixed! Oh and let's make them run at least for an hour for a path that needed 10 minutes earlier".

The main points that chased me away were:

- AVs pathetic tries to fix the economy which resulted in a terrible new player experience making all of our clans newbies but a single guy quit. Not much fun for a newbie to grind for hours to loose their efforts in a minute because they weren't just less experienced but also couldn't afford the gear sets that the veterans that played a different game (focus on PVP instead of PVE) stack in their banks, having enough for years. A wipe would have fixed that, but they are too scared to do what it takes. They talked about a softwipe for a long time but it will come with even more pve grind boredom - if it ever will come.

- AVs instant transportation nerf. In an mostly empty world that doesn't even have NPC life just static 3d models forcing giant travel times is plain dumb. No way to get to your friends without a boring half an hour walk through an deslotated world? HORRIBLE IDEA! Ever since this change was done most people in our clan stopped logging in if they just got an hour of play time. It's not worth it anymore. The time requirements went through the roof and for what? Total boredom. (yes I know, in some months they plan changes, but couldn't they have waited for their patch to finish instead of making the game so much more boring for months and no actual reason?)

- AVs new vision of a pve sandbox, which they don't really have enough developers for. So along with some crafting fluff all they really introduce is grind for basic pvp gear. They also think about local banking which just means even more time spent on boring chores in an mostly empty world.

And no, I don't want to see the game die, the combat engine is amazing, but the developers lack the team size to change the game so fundamentally that it will really have the options and possibilities to attract the hardcore sandbox pve crowd that they now dream of. And while they chase that dream in small overrushed steps they are also chasing away the PVP and siege fans along with new players and casuals as far away as they can. To make it worse, the current population simply won't do for their new idea of localisation, if they don't attract hundreds of no lifing pve grind fans those changes won't work out.

There is no such thing as a full loot free for all PVE sandbox, its simply at that point just a full loot PvP game no mater what elemets AV adds.  The PVEers will never come just the PvPers.   Which has been the reason this game will never ever grow.

Mardukk

Originally posted by eHug

I don't think the "class free" concept chased a lot of people away, it there was anything really bad about it, it was the way they actually did it. Many months of super cheesy builds, most people running around with the latest FOTM build, everybody wearing the same OP gear, shitloads of prowess wasted because AV wasn't able to get the balance right and constantly made important skills useless forcing players to use something else.  And of course that they wasted so many months on it. Instead they could have created shitloads of content different then their current  "let's multiply the grind for the absolute basics so a casual won't be able to gear up for sieges anymore, sorry i mean so the economy is fixed! Oh and let's make them run at least for an hour for a path that needed 10 minutes earlier".The main points that chased me away were:- AVs pathetic tries to fix the economy which resulted in a terrible new player experience making all of our clans newbies but a single guy quit. Not much fun for a newbie to grind for hours to loose their efforts in a minute because they weren't just less experienced but also couldn't afford the gear sets that the veterans that played a different game (focus on PVP instead of PVE) stack in their banks, having enough for years. A wipe would have fixed that, but they are too scared to do what it takes. They talked about a softwipe for a long time but it will come with even more pve grind boredom - if it ever will come.- AVs instant transportation nerf. In an mostly empty world that doesn't even have NPC life just static 3d models forcing giant travel times is plain dumb. No way to get to your friends without a boring half an hour walk through an deslotated world? HORRIBLE IDEA! Ever since this change was done most people in our clan stopped logging in if they just got an hour of play time. It's not worth it anymore. The time requirements went through the roof and for what? Total boredom. (yes I know, in some months they plan changes, but couldn't they have waited for their patch to finish instead of making the game so much more boring for months and no actual reason?)- AVs new vision of a pve sandbox, which they don't really have enough developers for. So along with some crafting fluff all they really introduce is grind for basic pvp gear. They also think about local banking which just means even more time spent on boring chores in an mostly empty world.And no, I don't want to see the game die, the combat engine is amazing, but the developers lack the team size to change the game so fundamentally that it will really have the options and possibilities to attract the hardcore sandbox pve crowd that they now dream of. And while they chase that dream in small overrushed steps they are also chasing away the PVP and siege fans along with new players and casuals as far away as they can. To make it worse, the current population simply won't do for their new idea of localisation, if they don't attract hundreds of no lifing pve grind fans those changes won't work out.

 

I agree with this for the most part. Although I would say they arent trying to turn it into pve anything. They destroyed pve and are now promising to fix it with the upcoming economy patch.

The game really hinges on these next two or three patches economy regionalization of loot, the ui revamp and enchanting. After those are in we can come back here and talk about if it failed or whatever. Just an fyi, They are now talking about reverting much of the teleportation nerf.

Holophonist

Originally posted by Mardukk

 I agree with this for the most part. Although I would say they arent trying to turn it into pve anything. They destroyed pve and are now promising to fix it with the upcoming economy patch. The game really hinges on these next two or three patches economy regionalization of loot, the ui revamp and enchanting. After those are in we can come back here and talk about if it failed or whatever. Just an fyi, They are now talking about reverting much of the teleportation nerf.

Spot on. The next couple of months are going to be a make or break moment for DFUw, I think. I'm not sure how quickly they could do it, but they need to pump out an alignment system ASAP. Ideally it would be great if they could finish the UI revamp, econ/enchanting changes, alignment and then a free trial with a lot of promotion and possibly a wipe. That would be DFUW's best hope, in my opinion.

Jakdstripper

DF1 was hardly a great game, that's why it was only played by a handful of hard core fan boys.

 

the stat/skill grind which required months and months of afk macroing was awful. the fact that people could use magic to run and leap faster than horses, and rendering pretty much any wall useless was stupid. the huge gap in strength between vets and new players. the horrible UI. the ridiculous mana/stam/hp transfer mini game you had to constantly spam....many thing were pretty bad with the original DF.

no point bringing back the old DF. just scrap DFUW, and start a brand new full loot mmo like DF, but on a different engine which allows free structure placement and some degree of terraforming.

Parepin

Originally posted by Boneserino

Here is an idea.

 

Why don't you start a Darkfall Underworld or whatever Kickstarter?   Get enough people to give you the money to buy the rights to the game.

 

Then change it to whatever you think it should be.

 

Then enjoy all the money that will roll in when people fall all over themselves to play the amazing game you have created!  

This may be the only way to save Darkfall.  Get it out of AV's hands.

I saw a post on the DF forums about the differences between the game.  All he wrote was hate on DFUW.  However he did like one point: the prowess system was the best improvement and one thing that made DFUW better.  I would be all for DF1.0 if it had a prowess system (well, and no bunny hopping, it isn't quake).

All I can see right now is dollar signs in AV's eyes now.  They will rip everyone off again and make you pay for DF1.0, again.  The DF1.0 trolls are winning and going to line their pockets even more.

boris20

Originally posted by Parepin

I want to wrap my head around this.  DFUW had a good playerbase.  Then roles were removed to an extent and each patch has moved it to be closer to a hybrid DF1.0 game.  Is that the main reason the population is so low?  These two reasons:

1. People who liked DFUW left because of the changes aligning it more with DF1.0.

2. People who liked DF1.0 didnt like the changes because its to hybrid.

I am considering making a petition to "reverse the DF1.0 changes to DFUW" to see how many people vote in it.  It's quite possible it could generate more votes than the current "bring back DF1.0" petition out.

 

Best vote would be to just trash UW and move on.  

Its obvious the game is going no where but dead. Player base is bleeding weekly. In a few months there will be 20 people left playing.

Copperfield

Originally posted by Cruizerke
Adventurine was and is what's wrong with Darkfall for both versions. As long as it stays in their hands it will never be as good as it could be.

this guy is spot on... nothing else to add up

eHug

Originally posted by boris20

Originally posted by Parepin

I want to wrap my head around this.  DFUW had a good playerbase.  Then roles were removed to an extent and each patch has moved it to be closer to a hybrid DF1.0 game.  Is that the main reason the population is so low?  These two reasons:

1. People who liked DFUW left because of the changes aligning it more with DF1.0.

2. People who liked DF1.0 didnt like the changes because its to hybrid.

I am considering making a petition to "reverse the DF1.0 changes to DFUW" to see how many people vote in it.  It's quite possible it could generate more votes than the current "bring back DF1.0" petition out.

 Best vote would be to just trash UW and move on.  

Its obvious the game is going no where but dead. Player base is bleeding weekly. In a few months there will be 20 people left playing.

Give me 6 months and 3 developers and i'll make a game out of DFUW that will attract many 1000s of players. The engine is amazing, the combat is fun, it's just AV not being able to make something solid content wise out of their otherwise amazing product. Just a few tweaks and some new content elements would be enough to entertain large numbers of players for years.