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Why no completly player driven economies?
Dzone
Member UncommonPosts: 371
Wouldn't it be nice if mmo's would completly remove npc shops from the game.
Only have mobs/dungeons drop loot to be used for crafting.
Gardeners gather seeds for culunarian's
Fishers gather fish for culunarian's to cook.
Miners go into mines and gather stones for goldsmithers to make jewelry, necklaces, ect.
Farmers, use farms to grow stuff to trade to culunarian's to cook.
End game raids, finishing those would give special rare maats that would be required to make the best gear.
Have all the maats/crafted gear/anumintion/potions/foods/fish/furnitings/tools in game sellable on the Auction House.
Just basically have everything player driven exept the enviroment.
Comments
Sounds like Eve to me.
Now, which one of you will adorn me today?
Sounds like Wurm to me.
Eve is the first to come to me also. Are there any fantasy games like this?
I self identify as a monkey.
It's a bit of a catch 22 deal.
If you have something completely player driven (be it economy, cities, the whole game, whatever) means that in the beggining you start mostly with a blank slate, depending on players to actually create the content. Most players (myself included) these days are content consumers, we take in content and basically stay as long as the available content keeps us having fun. Other players (arguably more valuable ones) are content creators, the ones that derive their fun from creating something that other people find fun, or as some people say, just to scratch an itch and the fact that other people enjoy it is just a bonus. They exist even in games that have no player driven elements, they're usually the ones creating pages and tools, addons, organizing events and things like that.
The goal of a player driven game is to attract enough of both, attract enough creators so that the content is added to the game, attract enough enough consumers and keep them around so that the creators don't leave over feeling the world being empty, or depending on how the world is set up, nobody to provide them with the materials they'd need to create content (for example, raw construction material for housing).
It's not easy to reach that balance, which is why while several games promise fully player driven worlds (specially now with crowdfunding), few actually manage to be developed in a timely manner and/or stay alive (and profitable) long enough for the players to reach the point where they are driving the game in a sustentable manner.
It's not easy, but it has been done before, several examples have been mentioned in this thread. While I've never played any of those, they do seem to be doing well so far.
What can men do against such reckless hate?
No, it wouldn't.
It would make things considerably more inconvenient without considerably improving player-driven economies (which in many cases are already quite player-driven.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
There are real problems with in-game economies (both player-driven and npc-based) that no one has successfully solved yet -- they manage to circumvent the basic laws of supply and demand.
In a game, it isn't uncommon to see a material component (e.g., various ores in EQ1) that people buy and sell for unreasonable prices relative to other goods (30-35 pp in /barter for 1 Indium Ore in EQ1). I might sell all the 'vendor trash' and be happy to get 1-10 pp per item, but certain crafting materials bring in vast prices because they are a popular way to skill-up a trade skill. The item's selling price doesn't cover the cost of the ingredients to make it. Frequently, the combine isn't even useful, only becoming more 'vendor trash'. There isn't a demand for the finished goods, only materials to make an all-powerful skill-up attempt where it is possible to gain a skill-up. Supply is split, implemented as both unlimited merchant items and drop rates.
In the real world, a business that spends 10x to 100000x (or more) the selling price of the finished product on the materials to make that product is soon bankrupt. In a game, it's just a money sink -- a step between the mob and the vendor that might result in a skill point in an otherwise useless skill.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
You seem to misunderstand a few elements of economies.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
This.
It's %100 player-driven, and the combat is a fun turn-based tactical system. The classes are also VERY unique and quirky. I really enjoy it, but the problem is that there is a very low population of newbies because the hard cap for levels is so damn high. In terms of game systems outside of progression; combat is great, if you like turn based grid-based games. When i say progression I mean how it flows from level 1 to w/e the max is.
Edit: also, the crafting is excellent. It's a typical menu-based crafting, but the fact that you can be sure what you craft will be the best thing you can get for your level REALLY kicks up the incentives to do so. Also, there is no limit on how many professions you can take, so level them all up if you like. Overall the only way the crafting could be better is if they had an ffxiv-like mini-game to go with it.
Yep. My only two problems with Wakfu currently are the population and the rebooted quest system when they switched to F2P. Otherwise I would still be playing it. All my friends on there transferred to Remington. >.>
Now, which one of you will adorn me today?
Check out Wurm, EVE, Wakfu, ATITD, or Puzzle Pirates.
However, all of them, like any healthy real world economy, are regulated to a degree. Those are your best bet.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
to the OP:
Simple: because then there is no need for a cash shop. And MMO companies love those.
Very true. Even the trade hub itself, Jita, was decided on by the players.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I tried the game and found that quite a clever game mechanic, although the game itself didn't appeal. Still, I approved of they way they did that.
"Nice" does not stand for sufficient justification.
It takes quite an effort to build and maintain such complex system and at the end it represents more shortcomings than advantages.
Even EVE Online diverts from complex crafting these days and follows more traditional loot based crafting - rare blueprints, loot components, etc.
There is simly no point in such endeavor.
There are no completely player driven economies . Because in first place , the economies involve with game system.
When you put something in game , you need to find ways to put them out.
If not , the balance will broke down and economies will ruined
This is why it hard to run F2P economies , though the idea is good , the out come is hard because many elements involve .
...how does monetization model play a role here?
ie. Entropia Universe is F2P and yet, it has fully player driven economy.
Kind of misleading when you mention EU as its not really F2P, it requires a huge amount of actual cash to play the game with any degree of 'access' and harvesting 'sweat' for hours on end just to make a couple of ped's is really really not fun in any way shape or form, its a game that probably defines P2W in that the deeper your pockets are, the more power you can buy yourself, its really more of a plaything of the wealthy, than a true MMO.
The only games i've played that have had a viable player driven economy, are Eve Online, and SWG, its not really something that lends itself to themepark games all that easily, i wouldn't say its impossible but its unlikely that any Themepark game would ever do away with npc vendors or equipment quest rewards, and that is something you cannot have in any form in any game that claims to be one that has a player driven economy.
Look at real world economies. The Feds have to monitor and tune the US economy very very carefully (by changing interest rates, open market actions, and so on) ... otherwise bad things can happen.
Having a player driven economy is not always desirable because if players just want to play a game, why bother to spend all that effort to design, monitor and adjust the economy so that it is viable?
The only misleading train of thought here would be to pretend EU is not F2P.
EU is F2P regardless whether you feel the game "requires a huge amount of actual cash" or what you find fun.
Personal qualifiers do not apply.