They won't go after the reseller for the same reason VISA and Mastercard do not prosecute every fraudulent credit card user. Itcost too much to send people to where the criminals are, pay to sit in court, and then get nothing much in return. Same reason most people in simple bar fight do not press charges...juice is not worth the squeeze. Easier to send a message and scare people from buying the misbegotten goods.
Originally posted by Horusra They won't go after the reseller for the same reason VISA and Mastercard do not prosecute every fraudulent credit card user. Itcost too much to send people to where the criminals are, pay to sit in court, and then get nothing much in return. Same reason most people in simple bar fight do not press charges...juice is not worth the squeeze. Easier to send a message and scare people from buying the misbegotten goods.
Thats nice and all but they have to know the user base that they are banning is probably huge. So they are not only depending on but expecting them to dish out more money to play the game. Seems like Reverse incentive to me. An ultimatum based on threats. Normally a game thats just nearly died due to bad development, would be more like hey guys thanks for playing, nic e of you to buy from our store, sorry about not having a thieves guild, assassins guild or player housing like you have all been demanding, and that lore problem, but thanks guys, here have some free crap.
Instead its, Go F yourself, pay us more money, your account is Fd, you owe us, and you're welcome.
So what is exactly the "incentive" to go back since none of the features Elder Scrolls fans want are going to be implemented anyway, I mean it might be different if they had some bad ass expansion coming out, rather than not in the future or ever.
I do not think from everything we have heard that it nearly died. Seems to be doing well. I also doubt the base getting banned is hugh.
As to the incentive to go back. Either they liked the game and will accept they f'd up and buy a new copy or they hated the game anyway. Seems many can get a refund possibly and buy a legit copy.
Originally posted by Horusra They won't go after the reseller for the same reason VISA and Mastercard do not prosecute every fraudulent credit card user. Itcost too much to send people to where the criminals are, pay to sit in court, and then get nothing much in return. Same reason most people in simple bar fight do not press charges...juice is not worth the squeeze. Easier to send a message and scare people from buying the misbegotten goods.
Thats nice and all but they have to know the user base that they are banning is probably huge. So they are not only depending on but expecting them to dish out more money to play the game. Seems like Reverse incentive to me. An ultimatum based on threats. Normally a game thats just nearly died due to bad development, would be more like hey guys thanks for playing, nic e of you to buy from our store, sorry about not having a thieves guild, assassins guild or player housing like you have all been demanding, and that lore problem, but thanks guys, here have some free crap.
Instead its, Go F yourself, pay us more money, your account is Fd, you owe us, and you're welcome.
So what is exactly the "incentive" to go back since none of the features Elder Scrolls fans want are going to be implemented anyway, I mean it might be different if they had some bad ass expansion coming out, rather than not in the future or ever.
Thief A buys 100 keys from Steam with a stolen credit card. Thief A sells those stolen keys to secondary market who marks them up and sells them for slightly more to people and may or may not have known they where stolen but defiantly knew they where fishy. Credit card company does a charge back against steam who removes the revenue from Zenimax. Zenimax bans keys that where stolen from them. It's now Zenimax's fault?
How does this work again?
If you are playing with a stolen key you are not a customer of Zenimax you are at best complacent to theft.
I don't understand how people think these deep discount sites work. Do you think they are selling the keys at a loss because they love the game market so much? Or maybe game makers are selling to them deeply discounted while not to their main suppliers for some reason? I'm pretty sure Steam would take objection to something like that.
Originally posted by Horusra They won't go after the reseller for the same reason VISA and Mastercard do not prosecute every fraudulent credit card user. Itcost too much to send people to where the criminals are, pay to sit in court, and then get nothing much in return. Same reason most people in simple bar fight do not press charges...juice is not worth the squeeze. Easier to send a message and scare people from buying the misbegotten goods.
Thats nice and all but they have to know the user base that they are banning is probably huge. So they are not only depending on but expecting them to dish out more money to play the game. Seems like Reverse incentive to me. An ultimatum based on threats. Normally a game thats just nearly died due to bad development, would be more like hey guys thanks for playing, nic e of you to buy from our store, sorry about not having a thieves guild, assassins guild or player housing like you have all been demanding, and that lore problem, but thanks guys, here have some free crap.
Instead its, Go F yourself, pay us more money, your account is Fd, you owe us, and you're welcome.
So what is exactly the "incentive" to go back since none of the features Elder Scrolls fans want are going to be implemented anyway, I mean it might be different if they had some bad ass expansion coming out, rather than not in the future or ever.
Thief A buys 100 keys from Steam with a stolen credit card. Thief A sells those stolen keys to secondary market who marks them up and sells them for slightly more to people and may or may not have known they where stolen but defiantly knew they where fishy. Credit card company does a charge back against steam who removes the revenue from Zenimax. Zenimax bans keys that where stolen from them. It's now Zenimax's fault?
How does this work again?
If you are playing with a stolen key you are not a customer of Zenimax you are at best complacent to theft.
I don't understand how people think these deep discount sites work. Do you think they are selling the keys at a loss because they love the game market so much? Or maybe game makers are selling to them deeply discounted while not to their main suppliers for some reason? I'm pretty sure Steam would take objection to something like that.
I dont think Amazon was a deep discount site, I didnt pay 20 dollars for mine.
I think you are fixated on a narrative but this scenario doesnt play out the same way for everyone, pretty sure alot of those bans are Ebay sales and such.
Also its thief A and the distros who are to blame, End users will always seek out deals, instead of attacking the actual problem Zenimax has opted to attack and double dip the end user.
On top of that IF we are talking about Stolen credit cards being used to Buy game codes from Zenimax or Steam etc., that they willingly sell and don't do security checks on their end. Keep the money and then charge you again, not feeling it.
Ubisoft tried this same tactic and it ate them alive.
In the "end" it is the end users responsibilty to buy legitimate items. Always been that way in courts. Buying stolen or misbegotten goods on ebay doesnot exonerate the buyer. They problem is two fold...Zenimax not controlling codes and end users buying illegal stuff to get a deal. Both need to be dealt with for the good of the industry.
Originally posted by Horusra In the "end" it is the end users responsibilty to buy legitimate items. Always been that way in courts. Buying stolen or misbegotten goods on ebay doesnot exonerate the buyer. They problem is two fold...Zenimax not controlling codes and end users buying illegal stuff to get a deal. Both need to be dealt with for the good of the industry.
Please, how they hell do you expect end users to determine that buying on Newegg, Ebay, Steam or Amazon, which they likely use because they already have accounts and may get discounts etc.
On top of that those are considered sanctioned websites due to their own website in the forums right now, if you can access the forums General discussion looks like a S storm just hit. And half the sites they list you cant even find, they dont even know, hell if they dont know how are they supposed to judge the situation lol. This is foolishness.
As far as I know Newegg does not sell game keys. No one who bought a key off the steam store was banned as they dont sell keys from resellers.
Amazon, Ebay, G2A, ect. all have sellers. Some legit and some not.
I dont think they should have banned the keys on a b2p game with a store. Or at least ban individual accounts on a case by case basis. But its their business and this is what they chose to do.
You also have to realize that when you purchase stolen goods ( digital or material) you have no rights to that property. We had a case where I live of stolen Xbox ones and PS4s being sold on craigslist. When the police tracked em down and took them from the buyers there was nothing they could do. The excuse of " I didnt know" doesnt matter. They bought new consoles for $200 and are now out the money and the console.
And it is the responsability of the buyer to be wary of the too good to be true deals. Everyone wants a discount sure. But buying items online for a deep discount when the rest of the world is paying full price for a new release just screams as being fishy.
It sucks that people got their accounts banned and i dont necessarily agree with it. But Zenimax is not to blame IMO. The buyers bought stolen keys, the cost of which were passed back to Zenimax when the CC company got a refund. All because some average joe was looking to save a few bucks and bought keys off a shady website.
As far as I know Newegg does not sell game keys. No one who bought a key off the steam store was banned as they dont sell keys from resellers.
Amazon, Ebay, G2A, ect. all have sellers. Some legit and some not.
I dont think they should have banned the keys on a b2p game with a store. Or at least ban individual accounts on a case by case basis. But its their business and this is what they chose to do.
You also have to realize that when you purchase stolen goods ( digital or material) you have no rights to that property. We had a case where I live of stolen Xbox ones and PS4s being sold on craigslist. When the police tracked em down and took them from the buyers there was nothing they could do. The excuse of " I didnt know" doesnt matter. They bought new consoles for $200 and are now out the money and the console.
And it is the responsability of the buyer to be wary of the too good to be true deals. Everyone wants a discount sure. But buying items online for a deep discount when the rest of the world is paying full price for a new release just screams as being fishy.
It sucks that people got their accounts banned and i dont necessarily agree with it. But Zenimax is not to blame IMO. The buyers bought stolen keys, the cost of which were passed back to Zenimax when the CC company got a refund. All because some average joe was looking to save a few bucks and bought keys off a shady website.
Ah yes but if your selling stuff to stolen credit cards in the first place, you dont have very good security to begin with. They were more than happy to swell their user base after the went ftp with those so called shady dealers, shady being Amazon, Ebay etc, sites they have sanctioned as "safe" on their own website and turned around deleted those accounts anyway.
Zenimax new full well what they were doing to begin with and are bandaging the losses they attained for short term greed by punishing the end user. I am sorry but they are not innocent bystanders in this.
Originally posted by Horusra In the "end" it is the end users responsibilty to buy legitimate items. Always been that way in courts. Buying stolen or misbegotten goods on ebay doesnot exonerate the buyer. They problem is two fold...Zenimax not controlling codes and end users buying illegal stuff to get a deal. Both need to be dealt with for the good of the industry.
Please, how they hell do you expect end users to determine that buying on Newegg, Ebay, Steam or Amazon, which they likely use because they already have accounts and may get discounts etc.
On top of that those are considered sanctioned websites due to their own website in the forums right now, if you can access the forums General discussion looks like a S storm just hit. And half the sites they list you cant even find, they dont even know, hell if they dont know how are they supposed to judge the situation lol. This is foolishness.
Well... I never buy anything from eBay, Amazon's marketplace or Neweggs marketplace. That's a good start to not getting scammed. And not because anyone told me who to buy from...it's just common sense that scams are all over the place on the internet.
Safer not to trust buying from anyone except the real legit vendors where I know I can get a refund if anything goes wrong.
Scammers prey on bargain hunters. That has always been and will always be the easiest hook for cons.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by Horusra They won't go after the reseller for the same reason VISA and Mastercard do not prosecute every fraudulent credit card user. Itcost too much to send people to where the criminals are, pay to sit in court, and then get nothing much in return. Same reason most people in simple bar fight do not press charges...juice is not worth the squeeze. Easier to send a message and scare people from buying the misbegotten goods.
Thats nice and all but they have to know the user base that they are banning is probably huge. So they are not only depending on but expecting them to dish out more money to play the game. Seems like Reverse incentive to me. An ultimatum based on threats. Normally a game thats just nearly died due to bad development, would be more like hey guys thanks for playing, nic e of you to buy from our store, sorry about not having a thieves guild, assassins guild or player housing like you have all been demanding, and that lore problem, but thanks guys, here have some free crap.
Instead its, Go F yourself, pay us more money, your account is Fd, you owe us, and you're welcome.
So what is exactly the "incentive" to go back since none of the features Elder Scrolls fans want are going to be implemented anyway, I mean it might be different if they had some bad ass expansion coming out, rather than not in the future or ever.
Thief A buys 100 keys from Steam with a stolen credit card. Thief A sells those stolen keys to secondary market who marks them up and sells them for slightly more to people and may or may not have known they where stolen but defiantly knew they where fishy. Credit card company does a charge back against steam who removes the revenue from Zenimax. Zenimax bans keys that where stolen from them. It's now Zenimax's fault?
How does this work again?
If you are playing with a stolen key you are not a customer of Zenimax you are at best complacent to theft.
I don't understand how people think these deep discount sites work. Do you think they are selling the keys at a loss because they love the game market so much? Or maybe game makers are selling to them deeply discounted while not to their main suppliers for some reason? I'm pretty sure Steam would take objection to something like that.
Complacent to theft: no. In (most) countries the onus is on the seller to ensure that they have title. End.
The buyers course of action is against the seller; Amazon, EBay. G2A etc. So the motto there is ensure that you purchase from a reputable seller or one that operates under a "global" protection scheme as EBay, Amazon etc. do.
Is price a guide? Should be but how much were boxed copies going for a few months ago? And - often erroneously - some people seem to believe that electronic purchases should be cheaper than physical. True-ish but complicated by retailers reducing the price of "surplus" / "slow moving" stock etc.
As already mentioned that key is not Zenimax fault,as stated it was bought from steam with likely a stolen CC.It is not that the key is no good it was just bought illegally.
As to not changing account,seriously OP,you should be able to figure that one out.Imagine someone wants to steal your account,they simply change the email into their own.I am quite sure if you contacted support they would allow a email change.BTW SOE actually makes it as hard to change email so Zenimax is not the only one.
I would not even trust a lot of those sites posted by Zeni as being reputable.
This happens a lot with even the bigger sites that i see posted all over Twitch TV because they are sponsored with them.NONE of the sites i see posted on Twitch properly identify whom and how they get their keys.There was a big write up about the whole operation a few months ago.What's is worse is that often these keys fly through several hands via trading so it gets really tough to trace them back.
These sites don't portray themselves as operating illegally but i am quite certain they know SOME of their keys are not legit,but they don't care.I prefer to wait for sales from legit vendors like Steam itself often has sales.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
As already mentioned that key is not Zenimax fault,as stated it was bought from steam with likely a stolen CC.It is not that the key is no good it was just bought illegally.
As to not changing account,seriously OP,you should be able to figure that one out.Imagine someone wants to steal your account,they simply change the email into their own.I am quite sure if you contacted support they would allow a email change.BTW SOE actually makes it as hard to change email so Zenimax is not the only one.
I would not even trust a lot of those sites posted by Zeni as being reputable.
This happens a lot with even the bigger sites that i see posted all over Twitch TV because they are sponsored with them.NONE of the sites i see posted on Twitch properly identify whom and how they get their keys.There was a big write up about the whole operation a few months ago.What's is worse is that often these keys fly through several hands via trading so it gets really tough to trace them back.
These sites don't portray themselves as operating illegally but i am quite certain they know SOME of their keys are not legit,but they don't care.I prefer to wait for sales from legit vendors like Steam itself often has sales.
I think you're missing the bigger picture. Why would I risk now, buying another copy, even a physical copy when at any minute they not only can but obviously will say its counterfeit. They can just say the box you got at Best Buy was a black market item or whatever bs they can come up with. They obviously dont even know what websites are legit or even still running to sell their own game on. How can I trust them?
There is no guarantee that no matter where I buy another copy of ESO from that it wont in the future be deemed counterfeit.
I mean its looking like I will get my refund, thats not the problem. I can buy another copy, thats no problem. But the level of Aholeishness hey have displayed is out of bounds. I dont feel like I can drive 5 minutes up the road, buy a copy from best buy and feel safe about it anymore. Buying this game feels like a low level chest looter in SWTOR a few years back.
Of course its their fault, its their software they control who gets it, keys etc. Theres not some shady Chinese spy inside Zenimax hq stealing keys and theres not some illegal key generating device. They dont regulated it well from there side and decide to do something like this and dont even know what sites are legit to begin with.
As already mentioned that key is not Zenimax fault,as stated it was bought from steam with likely a stolen CC.It is not that the key is no good it was just bought illegally.
As to not changing account,seriously OP,you should be able to figure that one out.Imagine someone wants to steal your account,they simply change the email into their own.I am quite sure if you contacted support they would allow a email change.BTW SOE actually makes it as hard to change email so Zenimax is not the only one.
I would not even trust a lot of those sites posted by Zeni as being reputable.
This happens a lot with even the bigger sites that i see posted all over Twitch TV because they are sponsored with them.NONE of the sites i see posted on Twitch properly identify whom and how they get their keys.There was a big write up about the whole operation a few months ago.What's is worse is that often these keys fly through several hands via trading so it gets really tough to trace them back.
These sites don't portray themselves as operating illegally but i am quite certain they know SOME of their keys are not legit,but they don't care.I prefer to wait for sales from legit vendors like Steam itself often has sales.
I think you're missing the bigger picture. Why would I risk now, buying another copy, even a physical copy when at any minute they not only can but obviously will say its counterfeit. They can just say the box you got at Best Buy was a black market item or whatever bs they can come up with. They obviously dont even know what websites are legit or even still running to sell their own game on. How can I trust them?
There is no guarantee that no matter where I buy another copy of ESO from that it wont in the future be deemed counterfeit.
I mean its looking like I will get my refund, thats not the problem. I can buy another copy, thats no problem. But the level of Aholeishness hey have displayed is out of bounds. I dont feel like I can drive 5 minutes up the road, buy a copy from best buy and feel safe about it anymore. Buying this game feels like a low level chest looter in SWTOR a few years back.
Of course its their fault, its their software they control who gets it, keys etc. Theres not some shady Chinese spy inside Zenimax hq stealing keys and theres not some illegal key generating device. They dont regulated it well from there side and decide to do something like this and dont even know what sites are legit to begin with.
You can't be serious...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
As already mentioned that key is not Zenimax fault,as stated it was bought from steam with likely a stolen CC.It is not that the key is no good it was just bought illegally.
As to not changing account,seriously OP,you should be able to figure that one out.Imagine someone wants to steal your account,they simply change the email into their own.I am quite sure if you contacted support they would allow a email change.BTW SOE actually makes it as hard to change email so Zenimax is not the only one.
I would not even trust a lot of those sites posted by Zeni as being reputable.
This happens a lot with even the bigger sites that i see posted all over Twitch TV because they are sponsored with them.NONE of the sites i see posted on Twitch properly identify whom and how they get their keys.There was a big write up about the whole operation a few months ago.What's is worse is that often these keys fly through several hands via trading so it gets really tough to trace them back.
These sites don't portray themselves as operating illegally but i am quite certain they know SOME of their keys are not legit,but they don't care.I prefer to wait for sales from legit vendors like Steam itself often has sales.
I think you're missing the bigger picture. Why would I risk now, buying another copy, even a physical copy when at any minute they not only can but obviously will say its counterfeit. They can just say the box you got at Best Buy was a black market item or whatever bs they can come up with. They obviously dont even know what websites are legit or even still running to sell their own game on. How can I trust them?
There is no guarantee that no matter where I buy another copy of ESO from that it wont in the future be deemed counterfeit.
I mean its looking like I will get my refund, thats not the problem. I can buy another copy, thats no problem. But the level of Aholeishness hey have displayed is out of bounds. I dont feel like I can drive 5 minutes up the road, buy a copy from best buy and feel safe about it anymore. Buying this game feels like a low level chest looter in SWTOR a few years back.
Of course its their fault, its their software they control who gets it, keys etc. Theres not some shady Chinese spy inside Zenimax hq stealing keys and theres not some illegal key generating device. They dont regulated it well from there side and decide to do something like this and dont even know what sites are legit to begin with.
You can't be serious...
I know, fail argument tbh, well, the guy took a risk and bought a dodgy game key, and, he lucked out, thems the breaks.
Its not as if Zenimax is removing access to legitimately purchased games after all, which is the guys assertion, far from it, they are only removing access to those people who obtained game keys that had been stolen or illegally obtained.
Zenimax aren't even under any legal obligation to provide a service where they have given those caught with those dodgy keys the chance to buy a proper key, they could have just closed them down and been done with it, after all, when it comes to stolen goods, the purchaser, whether its knowingly or otherwise, has little to no legal rights to recompense, and that is a reality that people who buy those kinds of things will just have to accept, like it or not. They should be thankful they even get a second chance rather than whining about things.
As already mentioned that key is not Zenimax fault,as stated it was bought from steam with likely a stolen CC.It is not that the key is no good it was just bought illegally.
As to not changing account,seriously OP,you should be able to figure that one out.Imagine someone wants to steal your account,they simply change the email into their own.I am quite sure if you contacted support they would allow a email change.BTW SOE actually makes it as hard to change email so Zenimax is not the only one.
I would not even trust a lot of those sites posted by Zeni as being reputable.
This happens a lot with even the bigger sites that i see posted all over Twitch TV because they are sponsored with them.NONE of the sites i see posted on Twitch properly identify whom and how they get their keys.There was a big write up about the whole operation a few months ago.What's is worse is that often these keys fly through several hands via trading so it gets really tough to trace them back.
These sites don't portray themselves as operating illegally but i am quite certain they know SOME of their keys are not legit,but they don't care.I prefer to wait for sales from legit vendors like Steam itself often has sales.
I think you're missing the bigger picture. Why would I risk now, buying another copy, even a physical copy when at any minute they not only can but obviously will say its counterfeit. They can just say the box you got at Best Buy was a black market item or whatever bs they can come up with. They obviously dont even know what websites are legit or even still running to sell their own game on. How can I trust them?
There is no guarantee that no matter where I buy another copy of ESO from that it wont in the future be deemed counterfeit.
I mean its looking like I will get my refund, thats not the problem. I can buy another copy, thats no problem. But the level of Aholeishness hey have displayed is out of bounds. I dont feel like I can drive 5 minutes up the road, buy a copy from best buy and feel safe about it anymore. Buying this game feels like a low level chest looter in SWTOR a few years back.
Of course its their fault, its their software they control who gets it, keys etc. Theres not some shady Chinese spy inside Zenimax hq stealing keys and theres not some illegal key generating device. They dont regulated it well from there side and decide to do something like this and dont even know what sites are legit to begin with.
You can't be serious...
I know, fail argument tbh, well, the guy took a risk and bought a dodgy game key, and, he lucked out, thems the breaks.
Its not as if Zenimax is removing access to legitimately purchased games after all, which is the guys assertion, far from it, they are only removing access to those people who obtained game keys that had been stolen or illegally obtained.
Zenimax aren't even under any legal obligation to provide a service where they have given those caught with those dodgy keys the chance to buy a proper key, they could have just closed them down and been done with it, after all, when it comes to stolen goods, the purchaser, whether its knowingly or otherwise, has little to no legal rights to recompense, and that is a reality that people who buy those kinds of things will just have to accept, like it or not. They should be thankful they even get a second chance rather than whining about things.
Oh you two again. Distopia you dont have the track record to call out my judgements.
I might be brash but my shot calling is outpacing you by long shot at this point.
As already mentioned that key is not Zenimax fault,as stated it was bought from steam with likely a stolen CC.It is not that the key is no good it was just bought illegally.
As to not changing account,seriously OP,you should be able to figure that one out.Imagine someone wants to steal your account,they simply change the email into their own.I am quite sure if you contacted support they would allow a email change.BTW SOE actually makes it as hard to change email so Zenimax is not the only one.
I would not even trust a lot of those sites posted by Zeni as being reputable.
This happens a lot with even the bigger sites that i see posted all over Twitch TV because they are sponsored with them.NONE of the sites i see posted on Twitch properly identify whom and how they get their keys.There was a big write up about the whole operation a few months ago.What's is worse is that often these keys fly through several hands via trading so it gets really tough to trace them back.
These sites don't portray themselves as operating illegally but i am quite certain they know SOME of their keys are not legit,but they don't care.I prefer to wait for sales from legit vendors like Steam itself often has sales.
I think you're missing the bigger picture. Why would I risk now, buying another copy, even a physical copy when at any minute they not only can but obviously will say its counterfeit. They can just say the box you got at Best Buy was a black market item or whatever bs they can come up with. They obviously dont even know what websites are legit or even still running to sell their own game on. How can I trust them?
There is no guarantee that no matter where I buy another copy of ESO from that it wont in the future be deemed counterfeit.
I mean its looking like I will get my refund, thats not the problem. I can buy another copy, thats no problem. But the level of Aholeishness hey have displayed is out of bounds. I dont feel like I can drive 5 minutes up the road, buy a copy from best buy and feel safe about it anymore. Buying this game feels like a low level chest looter in SWTOR a few years back.
Of course its their fault, its their software they control who gets it, keys etc. Theres not some shady Chinese spy inside Zenimax hq stealing keys and theres not some illegal key generating device. They dont regulated it well from there side and decide to do something like this and dont even know what sites are legit to begin with.
You can't be serious...
I know, fail argument tbh, well, the guy took a risk and bought a dodgy game key, and, he lucked out, thems the breaks.
Its not as if Zenimax is removing access to legitimately purchased games after all, which is the guys assertion, far from it, they are only removing access to those people who obtained game keys that had been stolen or illegally obtained.
Zenimax aren't even under any legal obligation to provide a service where they have given those caught with those dodgy keys the chance to buy a proper key, they could have just closed them down and been done with it, after all, when it comes to stolen goods, the purchaser, whether its knowingly or otherwise, has little to no legal rights to recompense, and that is a reality that people who buy those kinds of things will just have to accept, like it or not. They should be thankful they even get a second chance rather than whining about things.
Oh you two again. Distopia you dont have the track record to call out my judgements.
I might be brash but my shot calling is outpacing you by long shot at this point.
I'm sorry have we met? The name doesn't ring a bell...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I am not the only one to have issues with their policies, they are sloppy.
It shows a clear pattern forming at Zenimax from the top down all the way to their item shop, that makes me personally a little worried to invest in them again. For all I know they will up an decide to go back to a sub model after they get enough console gamers.
On top of that most laws in most countries dont assume guilt on the side of the unknowing purchase of stolen goods. There are international fines and laws for the ones doing this however they dont go after them because they cant sue the Asian market, also retailers are responsible for the distribution and security of their product online sites like Ebay will be the first one to tell you that.
What their doing isnt going to solve their problem, at best they will lose players. There is no point in pontificating for them this is obviously a short sighted and childish action.
I bought one from G2A and also received the email from Zenimax.
Luckily I paid the extra $1 for G2A Shield. I emailed them about it and they are issuing me a refund. No harm no foul. I got the $80 Imperial Edition for like $27 so it seemed a little fishy anyway, not THAT surprised that it was "illegitimate". Not really sure how that stuff works, either.
Credit card theft/fraud. They steal some poor sucker's number, buy a ton of game keys and then sell those through the site.
The original credit card owner finds out, goes to his bank and has them undo all those payments, royally pissing off the companies that the scammer bought the keys from, and they in turn track down the keys in question and deactivate them.
Of course by the time all that happens, some poor suckers like the OP have already bought the stolen keys, and the thief has cash in his hands that no one can take from him again. (In theory at least. The G2A Shield insurance can probably take it from them again)
Wrong, they never said what they ment by "fraudalent".
Companies are jerks, and for OP, DEFNITELY use chargeback on Zenimax if they wont return the money you spent at their store afterwards, and contact place you bought key from for a refund.
Also remember TOS has no legal value and you can resell any game bought from anywhere in EU.
Comments
Thats nice and all but they have to know the user base that they are banning is probably huge. So they are not only depending on but expecting them to dish out more money to play the game. Seems like Reverse incentive to me. An ultimatum based on threats. Normally a game thats just nearly died due to bad development, would be more like hey guys thanks for playing, nic e of you to buy from our store, sorry about not having a thieves guild, assassins guild or player housing like you have all been demanding, and that lore problem, but thanks guys, here have some free crap.
Instead its, Go F yourself, pay us more money, your account is Fd, you owe us, and you're welcome.
So what is exactly the "incentive" to go back since none of the features Elder Scrolls fans want are going to be implemented anyway, I mean it might be different if they had some bad ass expansion coming out, rather than not in the future or ever.
As to the incentive to go back. Either they liked the game and will accept they f'd up and buy a new copy or they hated the game anyway. Seems many can get a refund possibly and buy a legit copy.
Thief A buys 100 keys from Steam with a stolen credit card. Thief A sells those stolen keys to secondary market who marks them up and sells them for slightly more to people and may or may not have known they where stolen but defiantly knew they where fishy. Credit card company does a charge back against steam who removes the revenue from Zenimax. Zenimax bans keys that where stolen from them. It's now Zenimax's fault?
How does this work again?
If you are playing with a stolen key you are not a customer of Zenimax you are at best complacent to theft.
I don't understand how people think these deep discount sites work. Do you think they are selling the keys at a loss because they love the game market so much? Or maybe game makers are selling to them deeply discounted while not to their main suppliers for some reason? I'm pretty sure Steam would take objection to something like that.
I dont think Amazon was a deep discount site, I didnt pay 20 dollars for mine.
I think you are fixated on a narrative but this scenario doesnt play out the same way for everyone, pretty sure alot of those bans are Ebay sales and such.
Also its thief A and the distros who are to blame, End users will always seek out deals, instead of attacking the actual problem Zenimax has opted to attack and double dip the end user.
On top of that IF we are talking about Stolen credit cards being used to Buy game codes from Zenimax or Steam etc., that they willingly sell and don't do security checks on their end. Keep the money and then charge you again, not feeling it.
Ubisoft tried this same tactic and it ate them alive.
Please, how they hell do you expect end users to determine that buying on Newegg, Ebay, Steam or Amazon, which they likely use because they already have accounts and may get discounts etc.
On top of that those are considered sanctioned websites due to their own website in the forums right now, if you can access the forums General discussion looks like a S storm just hit. And half the sites they list you cant even find, they dont even know, hell if they dont know how are they supposed to judge the situation lol. This is foolishness.
As far as I know Newegg does not sell game keys. No one who bought a key off the steam store was banned as they dont sell keys from resellers.
Amazon, Ebay, G2A, ect. all have sellers. Some legit and some not.
I dont think they should have banned the keys on a b2p game with a store. Or at least ban individual accounts on a case by case basis. But its their business and this is what they chose to do.
You also have to realize that when you purchase stolen goods ( digital or material) you have no rights to that property. We had a case where I live of stolen Xbox ones and PS4s being sold on craigslist. When the police tracked em down and took them from the buyers there was nothing they could do. The excuse of " I didnt know" doesnt matter. They bought new consoles for $200 and are now out the money and the console.
And it is the responsability of the buyer to be wary of the too good to be true deals. Everyone wants a discount sure. But buying items online for a deep discount when the rest of the world is paying full price for a new release just screams as being fishy.
It sucks that people got their accounts banned and i dont necessarily agree with it. But Zenimax is not to blame IMO. The buyers bought stolen keys, the cost of which were passed back to Zenimax when the CC company got a refund. All because some average joe was looking to save a few bucks and bought keys off a shady website.
Ah yes but if your selling stuff to stolen credit cards in the first place, you dont have very good security to begin with. They were more than happy to swell their user base after the went ftp with those so called shady dealers, shady being Amazon, Ebay etc, sites they have sanctioned as "safe" on their own website and turned around deleted those accounts anyway.
Zenimax new full well what they were doing to begin with and are bandaging the losses they attained for short term greed by punishing the end user. I am sorry but they are not innocent bystanders in this.
Well... I never buy anything from eBay, Amazon's marketplace or Neweggs marketplace. That's a good start to not getting scammed. And not because anyone told me who to buy from...it's just common sense that scams are all over the place on the internet.
Safer not to trust buying from anyone except the real legit vendors where I know I can get a refund if anything goes wrong.
Scammers prey on bargain hunters. That has always been and will always be the easiest hook for cons.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Complacent to theft: no. In (most) countries the onus is on the seller to ensure that they have title. End.
The buyers course of action is against the seller; Amazon, EBay. G2A etc. So the motto there is ensure that you purchase from a reputable seller or one that operates under a "global" protection scheme as EBay, Amazon etc. do.
Is price a guide? Should be but how much were boxed copies going for a few months ago? And - often erroneously - some people seem to believe that electronic purchases should be cheaper than physical. True-ish but complicated by retailers reducing the price of "surplus" / "slow moving" stock etc.
As already mentioned that key is not Zenimax fault,as stated it was bought from steam with likely a stolen CC.It is not that the key is no good it was just bought illegally.
As to not changing account,seriously OP,you should be able to figure that one out.Imagine someone wants to steal your account,they simply change the email into their own.I am quite sure if you contacted support they would allow a email change.BTW SOE actually makes it as hard to change email so Zenimax is not the only one.
I would not even trust a lot of those sites posted by Zeni as being reputable.
This happens a lot with even the bigger sites that i see posted all over Twitch TV because they are sponsored with them.NONE of the sites i see posted on Twitch properly identify whom and how they get their keys.There was a big write up about the whole operation a few months ago.What's is worse is that often these keys fly through several hands via trading so it gets really tough to trace them back.
These sites don't portray themselves as operating illegally but i am quite certain they know SOME of their keys are not legit,but they don't care.I prefer to wait for sales from legit vendors like Steam itself often has sales.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I think you're missing the bigger picture. Why would I risk now, buying another copy, even a physical copy when at any minute they not only can but obviously will say its counterfeit. They can just say the box you got at Best Buy was a black market item or whatever bs they can come up with. They obviously dont even know what websites are legit or even still running to sell their own game on. How can I trust them?
There is no guarantee that no matter where I buy another copy of ESO from that it wont in the future be deemed counterfeit.
I mean its looking like I will get my refund, thats not the problem. I can buy another copy, thats no problem. But the level of Aholeishness hey have displayed is out of bounds. I dont feel like I can drive 5 minutes up the road, buy a copy from best buy and feel safe about it anymore. Buying this game feels like a low level chest looter in SWTOR a few years back.
Of course its their fault, its their software they control who gets it, keys etc. Theres not some shady Chinese spy inside Zenimax hq stealing keys and theres not some illegal key generating device. They dont regulated it well from there side and decide to do something like this and dont even know what sites are legit to begin with.
You can't be serious...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I know, fail argument tbh, well, the guy took a risk and bought a dodgy game key, and, he lucked out, thems the breaks.
Its not as if Zenimax is removing access to legitimately purchased games after all, which is the guys assertion, far from it, they are only removing access to those people who obtained game keys that had been stolen or illegally obtained.
Zenimax aren't even under any legal obligation to provide a service where they have given those caught with those dodgy keys the chance to buy a proper key, they could have just closed them down and been done with it, after all, when it comes to stolen goods, the purchaser, whether its knowingly or otherwise, has little to no legal rights to recompense, and that is a reality that people who buy those kinds of things will just have to accept, like it or not. They should be thankful they even get a second chance rather than whining about things.
Oh you two again. Distopia you dont have the track record to call out my judgements.
I might be brash but my shot calling is outpacing you by long shot at this point.
I'm sorry have we met? The name doesn't ring a bell...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This is why i stick to
A: Sealed physical products
B: Steam/Origin/Glyph and similar publisher backed outlets
Do a pay a little more... Sure.. But then i know that the keys are legit.
This have been a good conversation
Well thats what I am getting at many of the bad keys are from Green list sellers.
From what I have gathered from your post's...
Your beef is with Amazon not Zenimax
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
There is a very good news article about this very issue on this site right now.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/9721/Digital-Pains-Highlight-Industry-Issues.html/page/1
I am not the only one to have issues with their policies, they are sloppy.
It shows a clear pattern forming at Zenimax from the top down all the way to their item shop, that makes me personally a little worried to invest in them again. For all I know they will up an decide to go back to a sub model after they get enough console gamers.
On top of that most laws in most countries dont assume guilt on the side of the unknowing purchase of stolen goods. There are international fines and laws for the ones doing this however they dont go after them because they cant sue the Asian market, also retailers are responsible for the distribution and security of their product online sites like Ebay will be the first one to tell you that.
What their doing isnt going to solve their problem, at best they will lose players. There is no point in pontificating for them this is obviously a short sighted and childish action.
Wrong, they never said what they ment by "fraudalent".
Companies are jerks, and for OP, DEFNITELY use chargeback on Zenimax if they wont return the money you spent at their store afterwards, and contact place you bought key from for a refund.
Also remember TOS has no legal value and you can resell any game bought from anywhere in EU.
Nevr stopped me from anything. As long as chargebacks are JUSTIFIED.