That WoW will die this year or next year or maybe the year after next, I doubt it, with time it will die, go F2P and eventually decline into oblivion, but as long as there is not another game out there that can attract players as WoW has done all these years, WoW will survive.
The problem of why WoW still exist is because there is NO ONE SINGLE MMO GAME out there worth keeping players hooked for more than 3-5 months. And you all who have been around the block for more than 5 years know this.
If new games could somehow import the achievment history from wow then games like wildstar would have sucked the life out of wow a long time ago. Ofc this will never happen and wow fans are pot committed to their character history, so I give wow another 10 - 15 years horrific though it sounds. To spend a quarter of your life playing 1 game, what a waste lol.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
They need to be better about balancing reward with effort. If there is too much reward for too little effort it makes the game less compelling, less interesting, and results in player boredom and dissatisfaction with their in game accomplishments.
Originally posted by MisterZebub Simple, Blizzard will put out another half-assed expansion, hordes of players will buy it in indifferent droves as always and give Blizz a bump in sub numbers for a short while as always.
If you think that only Blizzard makes half assed games then you really do not know what you are talking about. There are MMO Developers and Regular Video Game Developers that release video games that make what Blizzard releases look like gold. For MMO's a prime example is the SOE game Vanguard Saga of Heroes. Vanguard SOH was rushed through Beta testing so fast that it has been listed as one of the worst MMO's to be released. Even through the live phase they still refused to fix majority of the bugs that should have been caught in Beta Testing. For Offline games you have games like Duke Nukem Forever which was in development hell for 14 years only to be released as a piece of crap. One should never state that only 1 Video Game Developer makes half assed games because you will always be proven wrong.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Originally posted by husscool How many MMO's out there would murder their grandmothers for 7 million subscribers? This happens every year and every year you guys squabble over the death of WoW. The game isn't going anywhere. Deal with it!
You didn't answer the question of the post, and you apparently didn't bother reading anything as well. This hasn't happened every year, maybe you should look at the numbers, and it hasn't happened in this short of time, ever. The game is not well off right now, the best players in the entire game are quitting, without people hyping the game with streams, upcoming PvP tournaments, seeing who's getting world first, having tutorials, theorycrafters, the game won't do very well.
I'm not saying they're missing all of that, but like I said, when it's rare to even find a 2200 arena stream daily for WoW, and the #1 US guild for PvE for years all have quit. That's not a good sign.
The best players are quitting? How the fuck do you determine who the "best" players are. Is there even such a thing?
This was pretty much their sub numbers before the expansion. The usual spikes during an expansion launch often goes away afterwards, especially if your game is so old. There is nothing to analyse here.
Simple. Probably close to 50% of the top 100 US guilds main groups stopped playing. Blood Legion who was the best guild in the US for years stopped stepped away from raiding, their raid leader from years ago quit. The only good thing about this is that some of their members are getting jobs now with Blizzard on their class balancing team (I know some).
So that's the PvE side. Now to PvP.
Take a look at who streams PvP now, Jahmilli, the best player in the world doesn't play. Djpikaboo doesn't play, Fuzion doesn't play, Wizk doesn't play, I mean, sure good players are still around, but the best of the best on US, and EU really don't play anymore. Go check who's streaming right now, probably some 2400 players, and that's about it lol. PvP right now is extremely slow, not balanced, not that fun, and the amount of viable comps you can play are extremely slim.
When all is said and done, more is always said than done.
Originally posted by husscool How many MMO's out there would murder their grandmothers for 7 million subscribers? This happens every year and every year you guys squabble over the death of WoW. The game isn't going anywhere. Deal with it!
You didn't answer the question of the post, and you apparently didn't bother reading anything as well. This hasn't happened every year, maybe you should look at the numbers, and it hasn't happened in this short of time, ever. The game is not well off right now, the best players in the entire game are quitting, without people hyping the game with streams, upcoming PvP tournaments, seeing who's getting world first, having tutorials, theorycrafters, the game won't do very well.
I'm not saying they're missing all of that, but like I said, when it's rare to even find a 2200 arena stream daily for WoW, and the #1 US guild for PvE for years all have quit. That's not a good sign.
The best players are quitting? How the fuck do you determine who the "best" players are. Is there even such a thing?
This was pretty much their sub numbers before the expansion. The usual spikes during an expansion launch often goes away afterwards, especially if your game is so old. There is nothing to analyse here.
Simple. Probably close to 50% of the top 100 US guilds main groups stopped playing. Blood Legion who was the best guild in the US for years stopped stepped away from raiding, their raid leader from years ago quit. The only good thing about this is that some of their members are getting jobs now with Blizzard on their class balancing team (I know some).
So that's the PvE side. Now to PvP.
Take a look at who streams PvP now, Jahmilli, the best player in the world doesn't play. Djpikaboo doesn't play, Fuzion doesn't play, Wizk doesn't play, I mean, sure good players are still around, but the best of the best on US, and EU really don't play anymore. Go check who's streaming right now, probably some 2400 players, and that's about it lol. PvP right now is extremely slow, not balanced, not that fun, and the amount of viable comps you can play are extremely slim.
Oh my 3 million people quit a game that had over 10 million people playing. If 7 million active subscriptions is a dying game then please explain to me what a thriving game is.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
The amount of players WoW lost would be envied by every MMO out there and that was a drop in the hat when compared to their regular player base over the years. Blizzard now has Hearthstone (which has blown away many online games) and Heroes of the Storm. They will continue to update and possibly add another expansion to the game, but in reality Blizzard is moving on from WoW.
Lol, a lot of your responses are silly because you completely ignore the question. I am a hardcore WoW player, but I'm not blinded to the fact that losing 3 million players isn't a big deal. It's a huge deal. That's close to 25% of their entire playerbase. In less than 6 months. If you don't want to answer the question then don't give any input because it's clear you didn't read the original post and you're just posting because of the title.
Btw, this was my playtime for one of my characters at level 90 during MoP. And I had 6 more 90s, my Priest had about 50 days.
And I will repeat myself again, before people post "this always happens!" Yeah, it does, but never in this short amount of time, and never going so far up the playerbase ladder to the absolute best players in the entire game.
When all is said and done, more is always said than done.
Originally posted by NobleNerd The amount of players WoW lost would be envied by every MMO out there and that was a drop in the hat when compared to their regular player base over the years. Blizzard now has Hearthstone (which has blown away many online games) and Heroes of the Storm. They will continue to update and possibly add another expansion to the game, but in reality Blizzard is moving on from WoW.
This is correct. The only games that Blizzard has that can classified as truly dying games would be Diablo 2, and Diablo 3. StarCraft and StarCraft 2 are still played as well as streamed on services like Twitch.tv along with Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm. I wont put the final nail in the coffin reguarding WoW untill the subscriptions drop below 1 million active subscriptions.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Lol, a lot of your responses are silly because you completely ignore the question. I am a hardcore WoW player, but I'm not blinded to the fact that losing 3 million players isn't a big deal. It's a huge deal. That's close to 25% of their entire playerbase. In less than 6 months. If you don't want to answer the question then don't give any input because it's clear you didn't read the original post and you're just posting because of the title.
Btw, this was my playtime for one of my characters at level 90 during MoP. And I had 6 more 90s, my Priest had about 50 days.
And I will repeat myself again, before people post "this always happens!" Yeah, it does, but never in this short amount of time, and never going so far up the playerbase ladder to the absolute best players in the entire game.
and you still refuse to see that most MMO's would sacrifice a vital limb to have even 1 mill subscriptions. WoW Still has 7 million subscriptions. Like I asked in a previous post "If 7 million active subscriptions is a dying game then how many subscriptions is a thriving game?"
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Lol, a lot of your responses are silly because you completely ignore the question. I am a hardcore WoW player, but I'm not blinded to the fact that losing 3 million players isn't a big deal. It's a huge deal. That's close to 25% of their entire playerbase. In less than 6 months. If you don't want to answer the question then don't give any input because it's clear you didn't read the original post and you're just posting because of the title.
Btw, this was my playtime for one of my characters at level 90 during MoP. And I had 6 more 90s, my Priest had about 50 days.
And I will repeat myself again, before people post "this always happens!" Yeah, it does, but never in this short amount of time, and never going so far up the playerbase ladder to the absolute best players in the entire game.
and you still refuse to see that most MMO's would sacrifice a vital limb to have even 1 mill subscriptions. WoW Still has 7 million subscriptions. Like I asked in a previous post "If 7 million active subscriptions is a dying game then how many subscriptions is a thriving game?"
Losing 25% of players, income, anything is a dying game. Whether other games have the same number of subs is completely irrelevant.
That's like saying a few years ago when RIM was losing massive amounts of money, "Well, how much do you have in your bank account?". Now they're basically not even a thing.
When you're on pace to lose massive amounts of numbers and income, whether you have 50 billion dollars or 10 million, if you keep on that pace, both people end up with $0 in the end.
When all is said and done, more is always said than done.
WoW hard to say, them losing 3 mil decline this fast, can be more that how there dealing with there end game, I seen it even other mmo, the more that lack of progression even slowing it down people just get bored of grinding for the progression.
Like, I have not touch wow for over 3 years well playing it fully when i use too, not sure if there progression just all dungeon or raids, notting outside of that, pvp ranked was one the worst then making it easyer on new player just punisher them for not having there gear to even do much.
Is what we was dealing with rift atm, after 3.0 getting gear was big as grind, now the gear is a so so easyer to get but feel like there some type of progression for the limited time people have end up starting seeing more people around coming back. Even with the pvp change in pvp we lost the progression but made it easyer on new people coming in the game not getting out mark cuz gear to far ahead.
But holding back flying mounts didn't help there numbers even.
Add more : even I said lack of progression, meaning that more ways to do stuff other then raiding or dungeons, feeling like your gear and your time is worth something, not to give you the gear, like hand it over to you, a point of getting the gear.
Lol, a lot of your responses are silly because you completely ignore the question. I am a hardcore WoW player, but I'm not blinded to the fact that losing 3 million players isn't a big deal. It's a huge deal. That's close to 25% of their entire playerbase. In less than 6 months. If you don't want to answer the question then don't give any input because it's clear you didn't read the original post and you're just posting because of the title.
Btw, this was my playtime for one of my characters at level 90 during MoP. And I had 6 more 90s, my Priest had about 50 days.
And I will repeat myself again, before people post "this always happens!" Yeah, it does, but never in this short amount of time, and never going so far up the playerbase ladder to the absolute best players in the entire game.
and you still refuse to see that most MMO's would sacrifice a vital limb to have even 1 mill subscriptions. WoW Still has 7 million subscriptions. Like I asked in a previous post "If 7 million active subscriptions is a dying game then how many subscriptions is a thriving game?"
Losing 25% of players, income, anything is a dying game. Whether other games have the same number of subs is completely irrelevant.
That's like saying a few years ago when RIM was losing massive amounts of money, "Well, how much do you have in your bank account?". Now they're basically not even a thing.
When you're on pace to lose massive amounts of numbers and income, whether you have 50 billion dollars or 10 million, if you keep on that pace, both people end up with $0 in the end.
Like you claim that no one has answered your question the same can be said for you in the fact that you didnt answer mine. But it doesnt matter the reason why you wont answer anyone else question because it appears that you cant. For the record loosing 3 mill subs from a game that had 10 mill is not a 25% loss its a 33.333% loss. Also compared to the loss thhat Star Wars Galaxies had with the release of the NGE 3 million people leaving is a drop in the bucket. Pre-NGE for SWG the accounts were at 400K. One week after the release of the NGE subs were at 50K. Blizzard would have to lose 6.5 Million subscriptions by next sunday to ever emulate what the NGE did for Star Wars Galaxies. And personally I doubt that Blizzard is foolish enough to do something that foolish.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Like you claim that no one has answered your question the same can be said for you in the fact that you didnt answer mine. But it doesnt matter the reason why you wont answer anyone else question because it appears that you cant. For the record loosing 3 mill subs from a game that had 10 mill is not a 25% loss its a 33.333% loss. Also compared to the loss thhat Star Wars Galaxies had with the release of the NGE 3 million people leaving is a drop in the bucket. Pre-NGE for SWG the accounts were at 400K. One week after the release of the NGE subs were at 50K. Blizzard would have to lose 6.5 Million subscriptions by next sunday to ever emulate what the NGE did for Star Wars Galaxies. And personally I doubt that Blizzard is foolish enough to do something that foolish.
Oops, math fail. 3/10 = 30%, not 33.333%. For the record, you know. Anyway it was 2.9 million lost, which is closer to a quarter than a third.
A lot of Blizzard fanboyism in this thread: "it's only a flesh wound". I suspect the same fanboyism is keeping the stock price up; ATVI is holding steady despite the bad news, and its valuation does not make a lot of sense.
WoW is in a way the same as the Law of Gravity discovered by Newton, there is no other Law of Gravity and never will exist any other Law of Gravity.
WoW is a monster a failed experiment turned into a success story, 3 millions of subscribers is a lot of players but the same 3 millions will return as soon as WoW releases another expansion, those 3 millions are like locust, they come, check, devour, leave the area desolated and move on into new pastures.
They are the floating mass of players who migrate from game to game to devour the new pac, expansion, update out there and once the material is completely obliterated they just move on until new material ready to be consumed is produced by the developers.
Like you claim that no one has answered your question the same can be said for you in the fact that you didnt answer mine. But it doesnt matter the reason why you wont answer anyone else question because it appears that you cant. For the record loosing 3 mill subs from a game that had 10 mill is not a 25% loss its a 33.333% loss. Also compared to the loss thhat Star Wars Galaxies had with the release of the NGE 3 million people leaving is a drop in the bucket. Pre-NGE for SWG the accounts were at 400K. One week after the release of the NGE subs were at 50K. Blizzard would have to lose 6.5 Million subscriptions by next sunday to ever emulate what the NGE did for Star Wars Galaxies. And personally I doubt that Blizzard is foolish enough to do something that foolish.
Oops, math fail. 3/10 = 30%, not 33.333%. For the record, you know. Anyway it was 2.9 million lost, which is closer to a quarter than a third.
A lot of Blizzard fanboyism in this thread: "it's only a flesh wound". I suspect the same fanboyism is keeping the stock price up; ATVI is holding steady despite the bad news, and its valuation does not make a lot of sense.
I'm not sure I get the article that you're quoting. Are you saying that Blizz is going down, or that it's a huge issue? As bad as they fanboyism is, the doom and gloomers are just as bad. For instance, you quoted an article but fail to acknowledge what the article is even talking about. The analyst actually even goes as far as to estimate WoW's revenues for the past 3 years:
2013: 790 Million
2014: 1.03 Billion
2015: 950 Million
But 2013 was the MoP Valley, 2014, was the WoD Peak, 2015 will be the WoD Valley, and we can expect another expansion in 2016 which will create another peak. Where will that peak be? Tough to say. Prior to MoP though, first-day sales of expacks increased release-over-release BC - 2.4 million, Wrath - 2.7 Million, Cata - 3.3 Million, MoP 2.7 Million (first week), WoD 3.3 Million (first day). So we COULD make a stretch and say that the expectation would be an expansion to sell 3.6 million+ on the first day (as long as there are no Pandas in it). This simply means that the peak will be higher than the last. I really don't think that WoW's performance is out of the ordinary, though. Doom and gloomers might say "ZOMG!!! WoW's dying because it lost 3 million subs!", but based on historical financials, I don't really see it losing revenues, I see a typical peak and valley situation.
THAT!! Is the thing that WoW really needs to solve. How the hell can they get people to actually keep playing their game?
It becomes harder and harder to bounce back each time, because the game gets older and the people who keep coming back and then quitting again get to the point where they're just fed up with it all, and stop coming back.
I don't honestly think I'll ever go back to WoW. The game is too "fast food" for me. It's a low time investment game that has gotten to the point where they're not even trying to give you an incentive to stay logged into the game.
If you don't raid, the game is worthless.
And I think a lot of people are seeing that and moving on because of it.
WoW isn't like EverQuest, where there were long-term tasks to accomplish even outside of raiding, and a method of XPing (Alternate Advancement Points) and Gearing Up that didn't happen in the blink of an eye - or for free (Garrisons giving out Raid and Heroic Raid gear for virtually no effort)?
Like... What point is there to playing WoW, if you aren't going to raid... on a schedule. I used to be able to do that when I was younger, but when you get older and have a life and like your life to have a bit of spontaneity built into it... That kind of play schedule becomes an issue. Outside of raids, there is nothing to do.
Except Arena... and I don't really care to PvP in a PvE game. It's never balanced when it's that way.
Like you claim that no one has answered your question the same can be said for you in the fact that you didnt answer mine. But it doesnt matter the reason why you wont answer anyone else question because it appears that you cant. For the record loosing 3 mill subs from a game that had 10 mill is not a 25% loss its a 33.333% loss. Also compared to the loss thhat Star Wars Galaxies had with the release of the NGE 3 million people leaving is a drop in the bucket. Pre-NGE for SWG the accounts were at 400K. One week after the release of the NGE subs were at 50K. Blizzard would have to lose 6.5 Million subscriptions by next sunday to ever emulate what the NGE did for Star Wars Galaxies. And personally I doubt that Blizzard is foolish enough to do something that foolish.
Oops, math fail. 3/10 = 30%, not 33.333%. For the record, you know. Anyway it was 2.9 million lost, which is closer to a quarter than a third.
A lot of Blizzard fanboyism in this thread: "it's only a flesh wound". I suspect the same fanboyism is keeping the stock price up; ATVI is holding steady despite the bad news, and its valuation does not make a lot of sense.
I'm not sure I get the article that you're quoting. Are you saying that Blizz is going down, or that it's a huge issue? As bad as they fanboyism is, the doom and gloomers are just as bad. For instance, you quoted an article but fail to acknowledge what the article is even talking about. The analyst actually even goes as far as to estimate WoW's revenues for the past 3 years:
2013: 790 Million
2014: 1.03 Billion
2015: 950 Million
But 2013 was the MoP Valley, 2014, was the WoD Peak, 2015 will be the WoD Valley, and we can expect another expansion in 2016 which will create another peak. Where will that peak be? Tough to say. Prior to MoP though, first-day sales of expacks increased release-over-release BC - 2.4 million, Wrath - 2.7 Million, Cata - 3.3 Million, MoP 2.7 Million (first week), WoD 3.3 Million (first day). So we COULD make a stretch and say that the expectation would be an expansion to sell 3.6 million+ on the first day (as long as there are no Pandas in it). This simply means that the peak will be higher than the last. I really don't think that WoW's performance is out of the ordinary, though. Doom and gloomers might say "ZOMG!!! WoW's dying because it lost 3 million subs!", but based on historical financials, I don't really see it losing revenues, I see a typical peak and valley situation.
THAT!! Is the thing that WoW really needs to solve. How the hell can they get people to actually keep playing their game?
You're looking at the wrong numbers.
It doesn't matter how many people buy the expansion. Much of that goes towards funding the development of the expansion. The profits come largely from the subscriptions.
SO what would be more interesting to see is how many of those people who bought those boxes actually stayed long term, and how did the numbers drop off after the launch of the expansion.
Games like TESO, Guild Wars 2, etc. go Buy to Play so that the Box Sales pay for Development and then hopefully they make enough money from the Cash Shop to Profit off the game.
You seriously think a bunch of people walking into Game Stop or going to Battle.net and buying the expansion is going to pay for their servers, ongoing maintenance, and ongoing development costs if they quit playing in 3-5 months because they got bored and didn't want to waste $15/mo on a subscription for a game they aren't enjoying playing?
I don't think so.
Box sales are worthless. Every game will get a huge uptick in downloads and/or box sales on launch day. In the grand scheme of things, a $39.99 purchase up front is not that big of an investment. The issue arises when people start to question whether the game is good enough to deserve a perpetual $14.99/month investment from them, when they could otherwise funnel that to services that can potentially give them more entertainment.
Lastly, comparing revenue across years without a deeper examination of the market is foolhardy.
Put it in perspective.
If 3.3M people quit paying a WoW subscription, and only 2.8M people come back over the course of the year. Just those 0.5M people who left... That is a loss of ~90M over the year just form those 500k subscribers lost.
And that's ignoring the fact that they didn't get all of those 2.8M subscribers to replace them instantly, so the number is likely 3-4x that much when you factor in game/expansion sales.
If 2.3M (lower than the stated numbers) people just up and quit and they aren't replaced, that's a gross ~414M per year lost in subscription fees.
Keep in mind you don't necessarily have to lose subscribers to gain subscribers, so in either case... The potential revenue lost is a massive amount. I think a lot of MMORPG developers would love to have that many users giving them 14.99/mo. to play their game...
WoW's revenue (and yes, I'm factoring in a huge chunk of that goes towards maintaining the game, developing new content, paying staff, etc.), when compared to the amount of subscribers they tend to boast having, leads me to believe that a lot of their users tend to "turn off" their accounts through the year to avoid paying a subscription when they aren't playing the game. And I think that's a bigger issue than "how are they going to regain that 3M subscribers." That kind of volatility is what tends to kill a lot of MMORPGs, but of course Blizzard can "deal with it" a lot better due to the sheer size of their player base.
It seems even the WoW player base is growing increasingly fickle these days.
they can bounce back easily. there are lots of addicts around that don't know the meaning of "letting go". they literally grew up with this game so most of them bounce back as soon as something shiny appears. the game itself however lost it's crown as best mmorpg quality-wise a long time ago because Activision Blizzard doesn't care.
my top MMOs: UO,DAOC,WoW,GW2
most of my posts are just my opinions they are not facts,it is the same for you too.
The fact is WoW loses more subs than any other game even has. Most people have tried whatever is out there and end up going back. I am 37 now and didnt start playing WoW till the lich king exp. I was not hard core, but played pretty soild for a few years. I lost count how many times I quit and went back. I dont know if its the polish or lack of better alternatives that draw people back.
I tried Lotro, wildstar, gw2, ESO,, SWTOR, FFXIV and whatever else is out there. Wildstar ran terrible on my PC, but i have a new graphics card and will give it another go when it goes F2P. GW2 is not my cup of tea. ESO is not bad, but the game kinda feels slow to me. I also dont like how so many people are in the same area as you doing the same quests or killing the named mob you need. I enjoyed FFXIV, but the GCD is painful for me. If they cut it from 2.5 to even 2 I would try it again. I played SWTOR from beta on and enjoyed the stories., but I am not really a fan of the graphics or gameplay or the narrow corridor questing. I do like Lotro and it rivals WoW as my go back to game. I like the music and the story driven quests. I also think the regular dungeons are more challenging than WoW.
After WoW and LOTRO there are not many options left. WoW just plain does it better than eveyone else to this point. A new MMORPG would have to be amazing to pull serious people away from WoW. I dont see a game ever getting as many subs as WoW anymore. There are just too many F2P games out there sucking away players. If WoW would go F2P i bet its numbers would absolutely skyrocket.
Its anecdotal but I haven't played wow since vanilla until I saw a 3 mil subs gone and no flying lol, I hit 100 today. Im still in spires of arak or whatever for my quests, Ive got a few more zones to crush and my garrison, then my gear grind and a pvp grind. I haven't done so many zones and they are all different from what I remember if I want to grind out and alt 100 from 1. I am having fun. My friends are slowly playing again, most of them quit in wotk. People left, some people joined, they still have lots of players and people quit after they beat an expansion every expansion. People should chill out with the oh noes doom for wow crap. Its like EQ, it will never die lol it might end up smaller over time, duh, but it is not going away. You think Blizzard couldnt keep a dead wow going long enough to get another expansion out and pull more money in, and wow is not dead lol. I could not be less of a wow fanboy, I could not think less of the people at Blizzard for the most part, that being said I am having more fun in wow at the moment then I was in FF or ESO, WoW is a good game and it is not going anyplace anytime soon... We might have started calling games the next big thing, instead of the next wow killer, but wow is still the king...
Lastly if you have not played WoW in a bit, give it a go and think of it as a single player game, take your time, enjoy all the content. Screw the rush to endgame and WoW is a decent game. Read the quests enjoy the world. Rush to endgame if thats your thing, but Blizzard has actually created a world for a change and you can find all kinda cool things in the game...
The game will be around for another 10 years at least, the graphs are fairly clear - the game will continue to decline over the years but will still have millions of players in some form.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Comments
That WoW will die this year or next year or maybe the year after next, I doubt it, with time it will die, go F2P and eventually decline into oblivion, but as long as there is not another game out there that can attract players as WoW has done all these years, WoW will survive.
The problem of why WoW still exist is because there is NO ONE SINGLE MMO GAME out there worth keeping players hooked for more than 3-5 months. And you all who have been around the block for more than 5 years know this.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
If you think that only Blizzard makes half assed games then you really do not know what you are talking about. There are MMO Developers and Regular Video Game Developers that release video games that make what Blizzard releases look like gold. For MMO's a prime example is the SOE game Vanguard Saga of Heroes. Vanguard SOH was rushed through Beta testing so fast that it has been listed as one of the worst MMO's to be released. Even through the live phase they still refused to fix majority of the bugs that should have been caught in Beta Testing. For Offline games you have games like Duke Nukem Forever which was in development hell for 14 years only to be released as a piece of crap. One should never state that only 1 Video Game Developer makes half assed games because you will always be proven wrong.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
How can he be proven wrong when you clearly got no idea what you are talking about !?
Simple. Probably close to 50% of the top 100 US guilds main groups stopped playing. Blood Legion who was the best guild in the US for years stopped stepped away from raiding, their raid leader from years ago quit. The only good thing about this is that some of their members are getting jobs now with Blizzard on their class balancing team (I know some).
So that's the PvE side. Now to PvP.
Take a look at who streams PvP now, Jahmilli, the best player in the world doesn't play. Djpikaboo doesn't play, Fuzion doesn't play, Wizk doesn't play, I mean, sure good players are still around, but the best of the best on US, and EU really don't play anymore. Go check who's streaming right now, probably some 2400 players, and that's about it lol. PvP right now is extremely slow, not balanced, not that fun, and the amount of viable comps you can play are extremely slim.
Oh my 3 million people quit a game that had over 10 million people playing. If 7 million active subscriptions is a dying game then please explain to me what a thriving game is.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Lol, a lot of your responses are silly because you completely ignore the question. I am a hardcore WoW player, but I'm not blinded to the fact that losing 3 million players isn't a big deal. It's a huge deal. That's close to 25% of their entire playerbase. In less than 6 months. If you don't want to answer the question then don't give any input because it's clear you didn't read the original post and you're just posting because of the title.
Btw, this was my playtime for one of my characters at level 90 during MoP. And I had 6 more 90s, my Priest had about 50 days.
And I will repeat myself again, before people post "this always happens!" Yeah, it does, but never in this short amount of time, and never going so far up the playerbase ladder to the absolute best players in the entire game.
This is correct. The only games that Blizzard has that can classified as truly dying games would be Diablo 2, and Diablo 3. StarCraft and StarCraft 2 are still played as well as streamed on services like Twitch.tv along with Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm. I wont put the final nail in the coffin reguarding WoW untill the subscriptions drop below 1 million active subscriptions.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
and you still refuse to see that most MMO's would sacrifice a vital limb to have even 1 mill subscriptions. WoW Still has 7 million subscriptions. Like I asked in a previous post "If 7 million active subscriptions is a dying game then how many subscriptions is a thriving game?"
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Losing 25% of players, income, anything is a dying game. Whether other games have the same number of subs is completely irrelevant.
That's like saying a few years ago when RIM was losing massive amounts of money, "Well, how much do you have in your bank account?". Now they're basically not even a thing.
When you're on pace to lose massive amounts of numbers and income, whether you have 50 billion dollars or 10 million, if you keep on that pace, both people end up with $0 in the end.
WoW hard to say, them losing 3 mil decline this fast, can be more that how there dealing with there end game, I seen it even other mmo, the more that lack of progression even slowing it down people just get bored of grinding for the progression.
Like, I have not touch wow for over 3 years well playing it fully when i use too, not sure if there progression just all dungeon or raids, notting outside of that, pvp ranked was one the worst then making it easyer on new player just punisher them for not having there gear to even do much.
Is what we was dealing with rift atm, after 3.0 getting gear was big as grind, now the gear is a so so easyer to get but feel like there some type of progression for the limited time people have end up starting seeing more people around coming back. Even with the pvp change in pvp we lost the progression but made it easyer on new people coming in the game not getting out mark cuz gear to far ahead.
But holding back flying mounts didn't help there numbers even.
Add more : even I said lack of progression, meaning that more ways to do stuff other then raiding or dungeons, feeling like your gear and your time is worth something, not to give you the gear, like hand it over to you, a point of getting the gear.
Like you claim that no one has answered your question the same can be said for you in the fact that you didnt answer mine. But it doesnt matter the reason why you wont answer anyone else question because it appears that you cant. For the record loosing 3 mill subs from a game that had 10 mill is not a 25% loss its a 33.333% loss. Also compared to the loss thhat Star Wars Galaxies had with the release of the NGE 3 million people leaving is a drop in the bucket. Pre-NGE for SWG the accounts were at 400K. One week after the release of the NGE subs were at 50K. Blizzard would have to lose 6.5 Million subscriptions by next sunday to ever emulate what the NGE did for Star Wars Galaxies. And personally I doubt that Blizzard is foolish enough to do something that foolish.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Oops, math fail. 3/10 = 30%, not 33.333%. For the record, you know. Anyway it was 2.9 million lost, which is closer to a quarter than a third.
A lot of Blizzard fanboyism in this thread: "it's only a flesh wound". I suspect the same fanboyism is keeping the stock price up; ATVI is holding steady despite the bad news, and its valuation does not make a lot of sense.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/3210996-activision-blizzard-q1-was-not-that-strong
WoW is in a way the same as the Law of Gravity discovered by Newton, there is no other Law of Gravity and never will exist any other Law of Gravity.
WoW is a monster a failed experiment turned into a success story, 3 millions of subscribers is a lot of players but the same 3 millions will return as soon as WoW releases another expansion, those 3 millions are like locust, they come, check, devour, leave the area desolated and move on into new pastures.
They are the floating mass of players who migrate from game to game to devour the new pac, expansion, update out there and once the material is completely obliterated they just move on until new material ready to be consumed is produced by the developers.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
I'm not sure I get the article that you're quoting. Are you saying that Blizz is going down, or that it's a huge issue? As bad as they fanboyism is, the doom and gloomers are just as bad. For instance, you quoted an article but fail to acknowledge what the article is even talking about. The analyst actually even goes as far as to estimate WoW's revenues for the past 3 years:
2013: 790 Million
2014: 1.03 Billion
2015: 950 Million
But 2013 was the MoP Valley, 2014, was the WoD Peak, 2015 will be the WoD Valley, and we can expect another expansion in 2016 which will create another peak. Where will that peak be? Tough to say. Prior to MoP though, first-day sales of expacks increased release-over-release BC - 2.4 million, Wrath - 2.7 Million, Cata - 3.3 Million, MoP 2.7 Million (first week), WoD 3.3 Million (first day). So we COULD make a stretch and say that the expectation would be an expansion to sell 3.6 million+ on the first day (as long as there are no Pandas in it). This simply means that the peak will be higher than the last. I really don't think that WoW's performance is out of the ordinary, though. Doom and gloomers might say "ZOMG!!! WoW's dying because it lost 3 million subs!", but based on historical financials, I don't really see it losing revenues, I see a typical peak and valley situation.
THAT!! Is the thing that WoW really needs to solve. How the hell can they get people to actually keep playing their game?
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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It becomes harder and harder to bounce back each time, because the game gets older and the people who keep coming back and then quitting again get to the point where they're just fed up with it all, and stop coming back.
I don't honestly think I'll ever go back to WoW. The game is too "fast food" for me. It's a low time investment game that has gotten to the point where they're not even trying to give you an incentive to stay logged into the game.
If you don't raid, the game is worthless.
And I think a lot of people are seeing that and moving on because of it.
WoW isn't like EverQuest, where there were long-term tasks to accomplish even outside of raiding, and a method of XPing (Alternate Advancement Points) and Gearing Up that didn't happen in the blink of an eye - or for free (Garrisons giving out Raid and Heroic Raid gear for virtually no effort)?
Like... What point is there to playing WoW, if you aren't going to raid... on a schedule. I used to be able to do that when I was younger, but when you get older and have a life and like your life to have a bit of spontaneity built into it... That kind of play schedule becomes an issue. Outside of raids, there is nothing to do.
Except Arena... and I don't really care to PvP in a PvE game. It's never balanced when it's that way.
You're looking at the wrong numbers.
It doesn't matter how many people buy the expansion. Much of that goes towards funding the development of the expansion. The profits come largely from the subscriptions.
SO what would be more interesting to see is how many of those people who bought those boxes actually stayed long term, and how did the numbers drop off after the launch of the expansion.
Games like TESO, Guild Wars 2, etc. go Buy to Play so that the Box Sales pay for Development and then hopefully they make enough money from the Cash Shop to Profit off the game.
You seriously think a bunch of people walking into Game Stop or going to Battle.net and buying the expansion is going to pay for their servers, ongoing maintenance, and ongoing development costs if they quit playing in 3-5 months because they got bored and didn't want to waste $15/mo on a subscription for a game they aren't enjoying playing?
I don't think so.
Box sales are worthless. Every game will get a huge uptick in downloads and/or box sales on launch day. In the grand scheme of things, a $39.99 purchase up front is not that big of an investment. The issue arises when people start to question whether the game is good enough to deserve a perpetual $14.99/month investment from them, when they could otherwise funnel that to services that can potentially give them more entertainment.
Lastly, comparing revenue across years without a deeper examination of the market is foolhardy.
Put it in perspective.
If 3.3M people quit paying a WoW subscription, and only 2.8M people come back over the course of the year. Just those 0.5M people who left... That is a loss of ~90M over the year just form those 500k subscribers lost.
And that's ignoring the fact that they didn't get all of those 2.8M subscribers to replace them instantly, so the number is likely 3-4x that much when you factor in game/expansion sales.
If 2.3M (lower than the stated numbers) people just up and quit and they aren't replaced, that's a gross ~414M per year lost in subscription fees.
Keep in mind you don't necessarily have to lose subscribers to gain subscribers, so in either case... The potential revenue lost is a massive amount. I think a lot of MMORPG developers would love to have that many users giving them 14.99/mo. to play their game...
WoW's revenue (and yes, I'm factoring in a huge chunk of that goes towards maintaining the game, developing new content, paying staff, etc.), when compared to the amount of subscribers they tend to boast having, leads me to believe that a lot of their users tend to "turn off" their accounts through the year to avoid paying a subscription when they aren't playing the game. And I think that's a bigger issue than "how are they going to regain that 3M subscribers." That kind of volatility is what tends to kill a lot of MMORPGs, but of course Blizzard can "deal with it" a lot better due to the sheer size of their player base.
It seems even the WoW player base is growing increasingly fickle these days.
my top MMOs: UO,DAOC,WoW,GW2
most of my posts are just my opinions they are not facts,it is the same for you too.
The fact is WoW loses more subs than any other game even has. Most people have tried whatever is out there and end up going back. I am 37 now and didnt start playing WoW till the lich king exp. I was not hard core, but played pretty soild for a few years. I lost count how many times I quit and went back. I dont know if its the polish or lack of better alternatives that draw people back.
I tried Lotro, wildstar, gw2, ESO,, SWTOR, FFXIV and whatever else is out there. Wildstar ran terrible on my PC, but i have a new graphics card and will give it another go when it goes F2P. GW2 is not my cup of tea. ESO is not bad, but the game kinda feels slow to me. I also dont like how so many people are in the same area as you doing the same quests or killing the named mob you need. I enjoyed FFXIV, but the GCD is painful for me. If they cut it from 2.5 to even 2 I would try it again. I played SWTOR from beta on and enjoyed the stories., but I am not really a fan of the graphics or gameplay or the narrow corridor questing. I do like Lotro and it rivals WoW as my go back to game. I like the music and the story driven quests. I also think the regular dungeons are more challenging than WoW.
After WoW and LOTRO there are not many options left. WoW just plain does it better than eveyone else to this point. A new MMORPG would have to be amazing to pull serious people away from WoW. I dont see a game ever getting as many subs as WoW anymore. There are just too many F2P games out there sucking away players. If WoW would go F2P i bet its numbers would absolutely skyrocket.
Its anecdotal but I haven't played wow since vanilla until I saw a 3 mil subs gone and no flying lol, I hit 100 today. Im still in spires of arak or whatever for my quests, Ive got a few more zones to crush and my garrison, then my gear grind and a pvp grind. I haven't done so many zones and they are all different from what I remember if I want to grind out and alt 100 from 1. I am having fun. My friends are slowly playing again, most of them quit in wotk. People left, some people joined, they still have lots of players and people quit after they beat an expansion every expansion. People should chill out with the oh noes doom for wow crap. Its like EQ, it will never die lol it might end up smaller over time, duh, but it is not going away. You think Blizzard couldnt keep a dead wow going long enough to get another expansion out and pull more money in, and wow is not dead lol. I could not be less of a wow fanboy, I could not think less of the people at Blizzard for the most part, that being said I am having more fun in wow at the moment then I was in FF or ESO, WoW is a good game and it is not going anyplace anytime soon... We might have started calling games the next big thing, instead of the next wow killer, but wow is still the king...
Lastly if you have not played WoW in a bit, give it a go and think of it as a single player game, take your time, enjoy all the content. Screw the rush to endgame and WoW is a decent game. Read the quests enjoy the world. Rush to endgame if thats your thing, but Blizzard has actually created a world for a change and you can find all kinda cool things in the game...
I don't get the "bounce back" part...srsly
"How do they survive?" would have been a better title...but even then the answer would still be....."It aint goin anywhere but straight forward."
People are gonna play it for years more. Why ask why?
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
The game will be around for another 10 years at least, the graphs are fairly clear - the game will continue to decline over the years but will still have millions of players in some form.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D