Originally posted by Mystralz wildstar is just a bad wow clone
themepark =/= WoW clone.
Wildstar is certainly not a WoW clone. As someone else said, Rift (at launch) and SWtOR are WoW clones. They are really the only 2 AAA games that are truly WoW clones.
swtor is not really a wow clone either
yea, they "borrowed " a lot from there, but not the best parts, sadly
if it was a REAL wow clone, they would have done A LOT better on the open market
rift is a wow clone...but without wows charm and originality
If it had been 1999-2007 this game would have done exceedingly well.
MMORPG's are a dying breed. Big part of that is the community that follows the games have become so exacting in their requirements for fun, and ready to flip and hate a game over the smallest of issues...that even a game that's extremely well made, and actually quite fun to play....turns into a flop....which is sort of why your not seeing a lot of big budget mmorpgs on the horizon...and why foreign developers have started to launch in their home market first, ignoring the NA/EU markets (especially the NA markets) for quite some time.
What went wrong was this game was a few years too late. No one wants a game that looks like wow kinda...because...the cool kids hate that game because its popular. People didn't want a hardcore raid game....because of the time and investment in knowing the game that is required...I think many people have burned out on the try-hard uber raid content that requires everyone to not screw up or get screamed at by some unemployed neckbeard whos running the guild with his unlimited play time.
Really that's my take. I don't see a need for mmorpgs in the traditional sense anymore. Single player RPG games do story better, and gameplay better...and the fans of those games wont trash a game because they don't get a decade of continuous play out of it...a game that's good that lasts 10hrs is hailed as a classic, where a mmorpg is seen as trash if you get 300 hours and a month out of it....
mmo games seem to work better these days as games with short bursts of content...which is why mobas and team fortress two type games are getting popular.
Youll still have plenty of indy mmorpgs I think, but their budget is going to be extremely low moving forward...as people just wont tolerate a game that isn't to their exact and specific requirements anymore. MMORPG are a dying breed at this point.
Im not sure with this game and NCSoft at the helm, they may have a contract to run the game as a p2p game for X amount of time, like EA had with warhammer, and then when that expires it will just shut down...it might see a f2p emergence but I don't think this game or any other higher budget mmorpg is going to really do all that well...and its obvious investors and large studios feel the same way...which is why your no longer getting one high budget AAA mmorpg a year anymore.
Originally posted by MMOExposed What went wrong with Wildstar in your opinion?
What went wrong? Beside what everyone already said, the first time I posted on the forum and I asked this question what about casual players I was devoured by the "elite crowd", THIS GAME IS NOT FOR CASUAL PLAYERS'" "THIS GAME IS FOR TOUGH PLAYERS" "GET OUT NOOB", "GO AND PLAY WITH DOLLS CAREBEAR", game uninstalled.
It was in development for 7 years - which means that by the time it released WoW clones were not popular anymore.
If WS launched 3 years prior it would have rode at least a year or 2 of the tail end of wow-era games.
Well good thing it played nothing like WoW lol. People chuck that term around to easy. To OP, main problem for me was the action combat. They took it to another level when I am getting a little sick of action combat. You really have no clue about this game and what it does till you do your first dungeon. I could do it, just found it... not fun lol. My wife just didnt have that much twitch skill. Watching her chain die to these crazy patterns of red was not fun as well. The game had two modes. Easy and killer hard. My wife is a casual and she just didnt like it at all when it went to killer hard mode.
The seizure inducing light show, "everything is an AoE" combat system was atrocious.
This times 1000. The combat system was just so beyond terrible that I couldn't make it past like level 10, and the videos you watch of anything with several people around are exactly how you described.. seizure inducing light shows. I don't see how anyone enjoys this kind of combat system for an MMO.
Originally posted by MMOExposed What went wrong with Wildstar in your opinion?
In my opinion almost everything went wrong.
For a new IP it presented the lore poorly. Focusing on boring fetch quest in a huge way which rendered the new lore boring. Poor class choices and customization. The classes themselves are nice but are really limited on everything they do (yes, including weapons). Controls are a joke, they tried to find a happy middle between action combat and tab target and failed big time on both sides. Combat is another joke, no variety (this also applies to poor weapon choices and restriction), and WoW rogue combo/finisher system for every class but made worse. Telegraph based combat is another joke, you dont care about the enemies around you and their weapons and their fighting style, you only fear the mighty colorful telegraphs. Im sure im missing something else...
Instead of focusing on offering a really fun leveling experience they wrongly prioritized boring fetch quest grind to hit max lvl quickly and overused their good sense of humor expecting it would carry you through the boring grind. That bit them in the arse.
They did nail the art style, sense of humor, race choice and animations, i really love that.
Simple as this..........Todays mmo players are casual pukes who cry when they have to do ANYTHING. So glad I dont play them any longer with those types...
Mmos have been dead for a few years now......The golden age has passed..Time to move on
Simple as this..........Todays mmo players are casual pukes who cry when they have to do ANYTHING. So glad I dont play them any longer with those types...
Mmos have been dead for a few years now......The golden age has passed..Time to move on
That's unfair, some of the people are indeed cry babies who spamm forums whenever they get a slight challenge but far from all MMO players are like that. The devs and publishers do however listen far too much to those loudmouths and nerf anything offering some challenge, just look on GW2 who actually had some challenge in the first beta week. They nerfed it quick and have nerfed it several times again since.
Sadly, I think we need a lead designer who ignores the players complaints and focus on making a fun and challenging game. Because the same people who constantly complains about difficulty rarely plays any game for more than a few weeks while the more old school MMOs finds themselves stuck in a far too easy game for a long time.
Hopefully will that crowd more over to the mobile scene.
One note though: hard and time consuming ain't the same thing. Grinding levels for months or year can be hard or easy and a fast game like the original Guildwars was at release could still be hard (yeah, it got nerfed eventually as well).
People calling Rift or SWTOR a "WoW Clone' have either;
1. Never played WoW. Not a bad thing.
2. Never played Rift or SWTOR.
Stop being ignorant. If you never played the game then don't voice your opinion about them. You only accomplish making yourself look asinine.
Comparing this game as another WoW clone is again, blatant ignorance. You seriously need to get off WoW's nut suck, pull your collective heads out of the sand and figure out wtf you are talking about.
Wildstar has/had issues, it also did some things very well. Games can borrow ideas and mechanics from each other without being clones, to go full circle on this, that is EXACTLY what WoW did to become one of the most played games in the world. One of them, not THE most. They took ideas form popular games at the time, grabbed the most popular ones and packaged it in a very colorful and vibrant coat and sold it to most of you. I will say it again, just because games take ideas from other games in no way makes them clones.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Wildstar was by no means "hard". It was a game of "Don't stand in the red stuff". What it was, was overwhelming. You get 15 quests, then run into another 15 in the area of those quests, and collections, and public quest things. You just.got bombarded with crap.
wildstar is just a bad wow clone made by a korean company that makes games that everyone likes to use to say asian games are grindy ignorantly. wow kids don't come out from living under their rock and that's the target audience. wow players leave their 1 and only glory game after every major expansion. Wow players are not long term and this whole game was never going to succeed it was obvious. But finally they'll get to releasing blade and soul after forever. And black desert will come out and maybe they will move back to where they belong. Making asian games for the truely biggest mmo market such as teccent over 20 million players just from a single territory not that wow bs pr 10millino worldwide garbage which is mostly just china.
Wait a minute! You got your countries all backwards. Wildstar isn't made in Korea at all! Carbine is from California.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I liked the humor, but the lore, meh. Also I do not like PVE raids so apparently I was not a target member. I gave the quests a chance, but it felt a bit too childish for me. Even more then that WoW thing. And indeed, the game didn't catch me.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
I've written about this a few times, but here's my edited bullet points:
It shouldn't have launched with a subscription. A new IP, from an unknown studio as their freshman effort was always going to struggle.
The split marketing did not help, and put casuals (arguably the lifeblood of a game) off in a serious way.
The lore is great at the higher levels, but it took too long to get going. This has been addressed in more recent patches, and hugely overhauled in the free to play CBT
The attunement grind for getting into raiding was overkill
Group finder/content finder tools were poor (this has also been addressed in the F2P CBT)
System performance was poor at launch, and particularly dire for AMD users.
That said, the game is in much better shape now than it was at launch.
On the subject of telegraph combat:
I prefer aimed skills to tab-target hotkey based combat, That's not exclusive to WildStar, but it's a large chunk of why I enjoy it's method.
The telegraphs are brightly coloured, but they can be tuned down in the UI and even disabled completely.
Yes, there are other ways of doing this style of combat - GW2 and TERA are both examples. (As a side note, I particularly like the GW2 fields & combos system).
Part of the reason for using telegraphs is that it allows complexity to scale with difficulty - raid/endgame dungeon bosses have more complex telegraph patterns. Then again, this just makes the bossfight dance harder to learn.
Player of games, smither of words, former of opinions, and masher of keys. WildStar Columnist Currently playing: WildStar, Guild Wars 2, EVE Online, Vain Glory.
Something I think has been missed here... Too little content, arguably too little 'viable' content. 5 dungeons (6 if you include the tutorial dungeon), 2 raids, and a boss in a box. There are a ton of fillers: contracts and shiphands namely. But very little point in doing them other than the short stories and renown.
I've not read every post, but combat being touched on: They didn't know whether they wanted to be an action or tab-target system. Namely auto-attack... Everything has auto-attack except for players. This drove me insane as it forced the trinity (Though others love it). For a telegraphed based combat system this really ruins it... If you pull aggro as a dps you can't dodge your way out, you just eat the auto-attacks.
But back to the point... A dedicated player with 19 dedicated friends can clear the entire game in a month or two from a fresh start. This includes every single piece of content available.
Some stuff holding wildstar back like attunement grind example, as I still find other players says that was the best system of them all and they want it in other games. Then a another is that action combat is a other example when the top games are tab target games, but not saying that action combat can't make it as good like the top tab target games but it's so tricky as the system can go bad and harder to change.
the Attunement itself wasn't the problem. The Issue was being a true asia grind. There was no challenge to it - the instances were almost only luck on getting the right boss composition and the game was overall meh. The humor from the trailers never made it into the game. The world was very static, crafting was bland and the content in no way "hardcore" as they wanted to call it. It was just "oh look we filled the pre-Raid content with stupid things you have to do before you can go raid" instead of having a meaningful attunement quest with actual difficulty (not difficulty in form of a fucking clock, but of mechanics).
The seizure inducing light show, "everything is an AoE" combat system was atrocious.
This times 1000. The combat system was just so beyond terrible that I couldn't make it past like level 10, and the videos you watch of anything with several people around are exactly how you described.. seizure inducing light shows. I don't see how anyone enjoys this kind of combat system for an MMO.
I would almost agree with you except for the fact that you can easily in the options turn off other peoples attack lines.
you are right, i never did play UO or EQ. Neither did i play L2, however what i meant was solely the attunement quest. I just got no joy out of it, just like as if i was playing Silkroad online.
The attunement wasn't a problem because of the grind... Well, maybe the reputation requirement. The biggest problem being the adventure instances. No one wants to do them due to they are only viable for the attunement, and everyone absolutely hates Malgrave Trail, it is long and can easily be screwed up losing the silver medal requirement and having to restart... An hour is usually an okay amount of time to spend on a task, but when the task repeats itself six times to obtain perfection it's a problem. Everyone will want to give up except the one person in the group that actually needs the attunement.
#trisox "true asia grind'? i bet you never played UO or EQ in their golden age...
I have my doubts either were anywhere close to L2 but I would like to get the opinion of someone who played L2 and oldschool EQ1 to be sure.
Never played the Lineage series... EverQuest at first wasn't about "end game." The concept hadn't really been though about until a bit later, the enjoyment came from the "grind." Experimenting, learning, exploring... I'm still puzzled of when the idea of "end game is the only good part of a game" came around. My guess is 2008ish with World of Warcraft's second expansion. Even Everquest 2 didn't focus all the attention to end game until the Kunark expansion really, there was so much more to do elsewhere... The journey is half the fun.
if they would have sunk all that money into City of Heroes which is way better then Wildstar instead of making a new fail game that is probably in worse shape now then City was City of heroes would have taken off it is a game that you can't currently replace with whats out there now and the fact the game was out before WoW it could never be a wow clone. The customization in that game is and will always be the best in any mmo. Really miss the game everyday but NCshaft had to go and shut it down to make a stupid game like Wildstar makes no sense at all
The attunement wasn't a problem because of the grind... Well, maybe the reputation requirement. The biggest problem being the adventure instances. No one wants to do them due to they are only viable for the attunement, and everyone absolutely hates Malgrave Trail, it is long and can easily be screwed up losing the silver medal requirement and having to restart... An hour is usually an okay amount of time to spend on a task, but when the task repeats itself six times to obtain perfection it's a problem. Everyone will want to give up except the one person in the group that actually needs the attunement.
Gotta hand it to you, you worded that way better than i did :pleased:
Comments
A painful and obvious overhyping exactly like GW2.
Stop worshiping games that aren't out and they might not turn out this way.
For me the problem was painfully obvious.
The seizure inducing light show, "everything is an AoE" combat system was atrocious.
swtor is not really a wow clone either
yea, they "borrowed " a lot from there, but not the best parts, sadly
if it was a REAL wow clone, they would have done A LOT better on the open market
rift is a wow clone...but without wows charm and originality
If it had been 1999-2007 this game would have done exceedingly well.
MMORPG's are a dying breed. Big part of that is the community that follows the games have become so exacting in their requirements for fun, and ready to flip and hate a game over the smallest of issues...that even a game that's extremely well made, and actually quite fun to play....turns into a flop....which is sort of why your not seeing a lot of big budget mmorpgs on the horizon...and why foreign developers have started to launch in their home market first, ignoring the NA/EU markets (especially the NA markets) for quite some time.
What went wrong was this game was a few years too late. No one wants a game that looks like wow kinda...because...the cool kids hate that game because its popular. People didn't want a hardcore raid game....because of the time and investment in knowing the game that is required...I think many people have burned out on the try-hard uber raid content that requires everyone to not screw up or get screamed at by some unemployed neckbeard whos running the guild with his unlimited play time.
Really that's my take. I don't see a need for mmorpgs in the traditional sense anymore. Single player RPG games do story better, and gameplay better...and the fans of those games wont trash a game because they don't get a decade of continuous play out of it...a game that's good that lasts 10hrs is hailed as a classic, where a mmorpg is seen as trash if you get 300 hours and a month out of it....
mmo games seem to work better these days as games with short bursts of content...which is why mobas and team fortress two type games are getting popular.
Youll still have plenty of indy mmorpgs I think, but their budget is going to be extremely low moving forward...as people just wont tolerate a game that isn't to their exact and specific requirements anymore. MMORPG are a dying breed at this point.
Im not sure with this game and NCSoft at the helm, they may have a contract to run the game as a p2p game for X amount of time, like EA had with warhammer, and then when that expires it will just shut down...it might see a f2p emergence but I don't think this game or any other higher budget mmorpg is going to really do all that well...and its obvious investors and large studios feel the same way...which is why your no longer getting one high budget AAA mmorpg a year anymore.
What went wrong? Beside what everyone already said, the first time I posted on the forum and I asked this question what about casual players I was devoured by the "elite crowd", THIS GAME IS NOT FOR CASUAL PLAYERS'" "THIS GAME IS FOR TOUGH PLAYERS" "GET OUT NOOB", "GO AND PLAY WITH DOLLS CAREBEAR", game uninstalled.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
Well good thing it played nothing like WoW lol. People chuck that term around to easy. To OP, main problem for me was the action combat. They took it to another level when I am getting a little sick of action combat. You really have no clue about this game and what it does till you do your first dungeon. I could do it, just found it... not fun lol. My wife just didnt have that much twitch skill. Watching her chain die to these crazy patterns of red was not fun as well. The game had two modes. Easy and killer hard. My wife is a casual and she just didnt like it at all when it went to killer hard mode.
This times 1000. The combat system was just so beyond terrible that I couldn't make it past like level 10, and the videos you watch of anything with several people around are exactly how you described.. seizure inducing light shows. I don't see how anyone enjoys this kind of combat system for an MMO.
In my opinion almost everything went wrong.
For a new IP it presented the lore poorly. Focusing on boring fetch quest in a huge way which rendered the new lore boring. Poor class choices and customization. The classes themselves are nice but are really limited on everything they do (yes, including weapons). Controls are a joke, they tried to find a happy middle between action combat and tab target and failed big time on both sides. Combat is another joke, no variety (this also applies to poor weapon choices and restriction), and WoW rogue combo/finisher system for every class but made worse. Telegraph based combat is another joke, you dont care about the enemies around you and their weapons and their fighting style, you only fear the mighty colorful telegraphs. Im sure im missing something else...
Instead of focusing on offering a really fun leveling experience they wrongly prioritized boring fetch quest grind to hit max lvl quickly and overused their good sense of humor expecting it would carry you through the boring grind. That bit them in the arse.
They did nail the art style, sense of humor, race choice and animations, i really love that.
Mmos have been dead for a few years now......The golden age has passed..Time to move on
Sadly, I think we need a lead designer who ignores the players complaints and focus on making a fun and challenging game. Because the same people who constantly complains about difficulty rarely plays any game for more than a few weeks while the more old school MMOs finds themselves stuck in a far too easy game for a long time.
Hopefully will that crowd more over to the mobile scene.
One note though: hard and time consuming ain't the same thing. Grinding levels for months or year can be hard or easy and a fast game like the original Guildwars was at release could still be hard (yeah, it got nerfed eventually as well).
1. Never played WoW. Not a bad thing.
2. Never played Rift or SWTOR.
Stop being ignorant. If you never played the game then don't voice your opinion about them. You only accomplish making yourself look asinine.
Comparing this game as another WoW clone is again, blatant ignorance. You seriously need to get off WoW's nut suck, pull your collective heads out of the sand and figure out wtf you are talking about.
Wildstar has/had issues, it also did some things very well. Games can borrow ideas and mechanics from each other without being clones, to go full circle on this, that is EXACTLY what WoW did to become one of the most played games in the world. One of them, not THE most. They took ideas form popular games at the time, grabbed the most popular ones and packaged it in a very colorful and vibrant coat and sold it to most of you. I will say it again, just because games take ideas from other games in no way makes them clones.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I gave the quests a chance, but it felt a bit too childish for me. Even more then that WoW thing.
And indeed, the game didn't catch me.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
- It shouldn't have launched with a subscription. A new IP, from an unknown studio as their freshman effort was always going to struggle.
- The split marketing did not help, and put casuals (arguably the lifeblood of a game) off in a serious way.
- The lore is great at the higher levels, but it took too long to get going. This has been addressed in more recent patches, and hugely overhauled in the free to play CBT
- The attunement grind for getting into raiding was overkill
- Group finder/content finder tools were poor (this has also been addressed in the F2P CBT)
- System performance was poor at launch, and particularly dire for AMD users.
That said, the game is in much better shape now than it was at launch.On the subject of telegraph combat:
Currently playing: WildStar, Guild Wars 2, EVE Online, Vain Glory.
5 dungeons (6 if you include the tutorial dungeon), 2 raids, and a boss in a box.
There are a ton of fillers: contracts and shiphands namely. But very little point in doing them other than the short stories and renown.
I've not read every post, but combat being touched on: They didn't know whether they wanted to be an action or tab-target system. Namely auto-attack... Everything has auto-attack except for players. This drove me insane as it forced the trinity (Though others love it). For a telegraphed based combat system this really ruins it... If you pull aggro as a dps you can't dodge your way out, you just eat the auto-attacks.
But back to the point... A dedicated player with 19 dedicated friends can clear the entire game in a month or two from a fresh start. This includes every single piece of content available.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
I would almost agree with you except for the fact that you can easily in the options turn off other peoples attack lines.
Never played the Lineage series... EverQuest at first wasn't about "end game." The concept hadn't really been though about until a bit later, the enjoyment came from the "grind." Experimenting, learning, exploring... I'm still puzzled of when the idea of "end game is the only good part of a game" came around. My guess is 2008ish with World of Warcraft's second expansion. Even Everquest 2 didn't focus all the attention to end game until the Kunark expansion really, there was so much more to do elsewhere... The journey is half the fun.