Some Advice

Slapshot1188

GW previously ignored my advice and everything I predicted has become true.  Contrary to what some might think, the LAST thing I want is for this game to go under.  It has honestly given me hours of free fun.   That said, here is round two of my advice to GW.  Ignore it at your own risk:

 

SIMPLIFY YOUR COST STRUCTURE!!!

 

The game is NOT in a state most players expect for a released game.  I think that is not even a point of contention.  You FURTHER complicate this with the convoluted cost structure:

 

Get a 15 day trial key (by asking/posting on a message board...)

Buy the game for $30 (triggers $15 to the person who gave the trial key to you)

Use a $15 coupon to lower the cost to $15

Cash shop to buy things...

 

This is too convoluted.  Why not just drop the box fee and give EVERYONE a 15 day free trial.  After that you pay $15 to sub.

 

Your revenue stream would seem to be similar in both methods, but my method is SIMPLE and does not rely on this crazy "I need a key", "I need a discount code" system that currently exists.  I know you planned to let people into Early Enrollment in waves of 1000, but lets be honest.. that was never going to happen and obviously is not happening now. I still would contend that your biggest mistake is the whole "No wipe for Early Enrollment" idea, but my suggestion would certainly help.

 

The only potential downside I see is that there are probably 9000 Kickstarter backers, each of whom could probably be pissed that you dropped the box fee before the game even got to Open Enrollment.  They would be right, and they should be pissed, but honestly if you stick to this bizarre  pricing concept through pure stubbornness I have serious doubts you even make it to Open Enrollment.  Reading the official forums it seems like even some of the "Evangelists" give it a 50/50 chance...

 

Sometimes you just have to admit your mistakes and move on for the good of the company when you are the guy in charge...  

 

 

Bringslite

@ Slapshot1188

That is constructive critique that I can understand. I agree with most of what you have written in your opening post, here. Not that Ryan and Lisa should claim any mistake. Rather that they should adjust the Entry cost until they get the influx of paying customers that they want, tempered with what will not doom the project due to under funding. Even if it delays the progress a bit. Certainly not that anyone should move on.

I also have concerns that changing up the entry gate will alienate those backers. Then I remember that I would much rather see the game take off with new blood and succeed than see it fail because I couldn't get my head around a difference of $30.

Well written Slapshot1188.

Dullahan

Personally, I wouldn't pay more than a box fee with no further charges until the full launch.  Its either that or free to try with a $5 a month fee.  I just don't find it worthy of more than that at this point.  If the fee is modest, and people find it even remotely fun, most people will continue subbing @ $5 a month just to support further development; even if they aren't actively playing.

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by Dullahan
Personally, I wouldn't pay more than a box fee with no further charges until the full launch.  Its either that or free to try with a $5 a month fee.  I just don't find it worthy of more than that at this point.  If the fee is modest, and people find it even remotely fun, most people will continue subbing @ $5 a month just to support further development; even if they aren't actively playing.

Of course I think the whole idea of charging people for a game in this state is crazy...  but I was just pointing out that the WAY they are charging is even crazier.   I think they honestly thought they would have to LIMIT players because there would be so many that they would want to control growth.  Obviously that is far from the case.

 

I think this is similar to why so many things in game do not work.  They thought there would be far more people.  Unlike in game systems though, this seems to be pretty easy to course correct.  All it requires is for the guy in charge to admit he made a mistake (even if only to himself), be willing to weather the blow back from the Kickstarter people and move forward.  No, it's not a perfect solution because combining the sub with the state of the game and then NOT WIPING at "Open Enrollment" is the biggest issue but if you are going to charge people for Alpha/Beta/Early Enrollment at least make it SIMPLE...

 

 

Edit to add:

 

I checked and it wasn't 1000 players a month.. it was 4200!  (2000 Pioneers,  500 Buddy's (x2) and 200 Guild (x6)).  And they thought they would do that each month for 9 months so yes, it appears that not only are their projections for paying population off, but they are off by orders of magnitude.  When you have an order of magnitude (or two..) less players than planned I think the market is telling you that they have a different take on what constitutes an MVP.  You can stick to your guns and go down with the ship, or you can adapt, adjust and openly and honestly tell the Kickstarter Backers that you screwed up and this is the best way forward.

 

Early Enrollment is our way to seed players into the earliest play of the Pathfinder Online MMO.

Because we wish to develop our systems by slowly growing our player population, we will be regulating the number of new players that will be able to enter the game for at least the first nine months. These players will be the Early Enrollment ones. In this Kickstarter, we will be filling up these available slots on a month by month basis based on how soon a backer has made a pledge to any of the three Crowdforger levels. The Crowdforger Pioneer pledge level has 2,000 slots per month available for Early Enrollment. The first 2,000 Crowdforger Pioneer backers will get an invite into the first month of the Early Enrollment period. Then the next 2,000 will be invited in month two. The third 2,000 in month three and so on, until we have all 18,000 slots filled. The same goes for the 500 slots for the Crowdforger Buddy level and the 200 slots for the Crowdforger Guild level.

 

 

 

AndiusMeuridiar

A wipe would really be out of the question at this point. The reason people paid so much to get in from day 1 of this game isn't so that they could be "part of the feedback process". It's so that they could have ridiculously OP characters that they've been building from day one.

If they wipe or address the stat imbalance they piss off a huge portion of their existing community.

If they don't wipe and don't address the stat imbalance they turn away new players who simply aren't interested in putting up with that crap.

They are kind of in a catch 22 but in this one they have to consider that their current community has fanatical devotion to this game, while very few of the new players testing it would stick around even if the stat imbalance were addressed.

If they are going to backstab their current supporters and see this game succeed they should probably hold off on announcing that until they have a game with enough quality to actually retain a good portion of new players.

Given the lack of funds, due to the lack of players, that will probably never happen.

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Slapshot1188

You should pose that on the official forums. My guess is that all those folks who keep trying to downplay the massive advantage they have over new players would freak out at the thought of losing it.

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wmmarcellino

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Buy the game for $30 (triggers $15 to the person who gave the trial key to you)

 

You raise some valid points in your post overall, but what do you mean by this? 

AndiusMeuridiar

 

---

Originally posted by caldeathe

---

Originally posted by AndiusMeuridiar A wipe would really be out of the question at this point.

---

I guess it depends on what you call "wipe." The only thing they promised us what that we wouldn't lose any XP we paid for. They could remove all training, achievements, gear and resources without breaking that promise. And it wouldn't bother me much. Whether it would be enough to satisfy those that are unhappy people have a headstart on them is a completely different question. From an impartial view, they'd probably be better off wiping everything and just giving back any time we've used when they are about ready to open, maybe letting the players have a month or so of time to build the economy again, maybe not, but I don't know how most of the players would react to that. I'd be a little disappointed, but since I think it would be good for the game, I'd get over it.

---

 

It's a wipe on the supposedly non-existing grind but it's also a respec which actually helps vets eliminate XP regrets and further widens the XP gap in terms of XP efficiently spent. Gear is supposed to be temporary. The grind is supposed to be temporary. The stat imbalance is forever.

That may help in the short term but in the long term it only intensifies the problem.

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by caldeathe

Originally posted by Slapshot1188
You should pose that on the official forums. My guess is that all those folks who keep trying to downplay the massive advantage they have over new players would freak out at the thought of losing it.

I already did. Even to the extent of the possibility of wiping XP. It is not well received, which is hardly surprising considering some of us have put in hundreds of hours of play time. It remains to be seen exactly what the advantage will amount to in the long run. I know one of my groups most active and valuable members joined about a month ago. He doesn't appear all that disadvantaged, and is a welcome addition in any group we send out. Only time will tell.

 

I did see that.. looks like 3 or so separate threads all discussing various parts of my OP  

 

The only comment I would make about the quote above is:  If time is really no big deal and it's not a huge edge, why did almost EVERY long term backer state that they would quit the game if the XP was wiped?  Not "I would listen to the reasons that GW gave for having to change course".  Simply "I would quit instantly".  

 

My belief is that because deep down, each of them sees that massive advantage as payback for buying/subbing to an incomplete and very deficient game.   If they REALLY cared about the game they would have responded like you did in your posts there.  It wasn't something you wanted, but if it was the most likely way to attract a real population you would say OK.  Almost every response said they would quit instantly and a few attacked you for even daring to bring up the subject!  That's the echo-chamber I have mentioned repeatedly.  All those folks really need to look in the mirror and think about whether their response was for the betterment of the game, or the jealous guarding of the advantage they feel they paid for and deserve...

 

But that's really a tangent to this discussion and a separate topic... for now.. they should bite the bullet, drop the box price, allow anyone to instantly get a free 2 week trial, and just apologize and explain why they had to change course to the Kickstarter folks.   If they start to dance and say this was always the plan.. they will get slammed again.

 

Say what you mean.  Do what you say. And when shit happens, be honest and upfront about it.  Anyone can see they only have a fraction of the players they believed they would at this point in development.  Be honest, course correct, and admit that maybe their definition of "MVP" was not in line with as many people as they hoped.  And explain a REALISTIC plan to go forward.

 

 

 

Bringslite

Actually, I will bet that GW knows that a complete wipe will not improve the size of the customer base by a significant amount to make it worth while.

1, It would pretty much require a refund of all the months already spent subscribing, whether rewards for the kickstarter or paid for after those were used if the management and ownership were to stay the same.

2. There are many games with early access and kickstarter perks that do not wipe those perks.

3. Virtually every MMO in existence has a place where it starts recording play and becomes persistent. Those games (if they are good enough) have a regular influx of new players throughout their life span, even if it tapers off eventually as "The New Greatest Thing Ever" comes along. Look at any MMO more than a year out from it's start date. Most people playing right now did not start it on day one or they are dying MMOs.

4. A complete wipe and restart would not solve their Minimum Viable Product approach. Only time will fix that. Time to add the things that will raise the state of the product to a point that enough of the MMO community agrees that the MVP is acceptable and subscribes.

The idea of a complete wipe is a red herring. It won't fix things. It would be ammo used to criticize, most likely by those that are calling for it and not interested in the game in the first place. Those people do love to trash talk games and companies on the internet. It doesn't matter what you do. They twist everything to serve their fun times.

If a wipe would increase the long term subscriber base by 100 times what it is now, right now. I would sign off on my doubts about it immediately. Send in your one year subscription pledges (to be held in escrow for that 100x player base target for complete wipe and reset) to show your support.

Prove me wrong.

 

 

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

GW previously ignored my advice and everything I predicted has become true.  Contrary to what some might think, the LAST thing I want is for this game to go under.  It has honestly given me hours of free fun.   That said, here is round two of my advice to GW.  Ignore it at your own risk:

 

SIMPLIFY YOUR COST STRUCTURE!!!

 

The game is NOT in a state most players expect for a released game.  I think that is not even a point of contention.  You FURTHER complicate this with the convoluted cost structure:

 

Get a 15 day trial key (by asking/posting on a message board...)

Buy the game for $30 (triggers $15 to the person who gave the trial key to you)

Use a $15 coupon to lower the cost to $15

Cash shop to buy things...

 

This is too convoluted.  Why not just drop the box fee and give EVERYONE a 15 day free trial.  After that you pay $15 to sub.

 

Your revenue stream would seem to be similar in both methods, but my method is SIMPLE and does not rely on this crazy "I need a key", "I need a discount code" system that currently exists.  I know you planned to let people into Early Enrollment in waves of 1000, but lets be honest.. that was never going to happen and obviously is not happening now. I still would contend that your biggest mistake is the whole "No wipe for Early Enrollment" idea, but my suggestion would certainly help.

 

The only potential downside I see is that there are probably 9000 Kickstarter backers, each of whom could probably be pissed that you dropped the box fee before the game even got to Open Enrollment.  They would be right, and they should be pissed, but honestly if you stick to this bizarre  pricing concept through pure stubbornness I have serious doubts you even make it to Open Enrollment.  Reading the official forums it seems like even some of the "Evangelists" give it a 50/50 chance...

 

Sometimes you just have to admit your mistakes and move on for the good of the company when you are the guy in charge...  

 

 

Looks like I successfully CROWDFORGED!!  They have done EXACTLY what I underlined above.

 

Now if they just take the last piece and drop the "no wipe" at full launch...