Why does that matter? Its outrageous for a company to charge a box price and sub for a game in PFO's state while claiming it is complete. It sets an unwelcome precedent because it opens the door to more of such distasteful behaviour. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
It's never outrageous to charge whatever you want for anything that people don't need. Like all other MMOs, it is a luxury item. Some coffee makers are cheap enough that anyone can buy them, some are ridiculously expensive even though they are no better at making coffee. Neither of those things are outrageous. Outrage is a powerful word, and should be reserved for things where people have no choice in the matter. Religious Warlords kidnapping and force-impregnating young girls to punish them for going to school is outrageous. Goblinworks charging for PFO doesn't even come close.
Hmm...
An online gaming forum.. people are discussing a certain game which underdelivers while demanding top prices.
People disagree with this..
Your answer to them is: "There are wars and injustice out there - that is worse!" on a gaming forum.. where people are discussing a game.
"Target-rich environment" PvP. Yup, as a primarilly PvE player that's got me real interested in the game. Just can't wait to become someone else's target dummy.
/snark
Amazement aside at how this sort of dialogue is meant to attract a broad spectrum of players, the subscription model test period is a huge red flag. Essentially the message is: We haven't gotten enough Kickstarter, early access, or venture capital to fund our development. Therefore, we want those of you who have shown an interest to pony up some more until we figure out how to be an actual, viable company.
As my Moms used to say, "That's throwing good money after bad."
Why does that matter? Its outrageous for a company to charge a box price and sub for a game in PFO's state while claiming it is complete. It sets an unwelcome precedent because it opens the door to more of such distasteful behaviour. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
It's never outrageous to charge whatever you want for anything that people don't need. Like all other MMOs, it is a luxury item. Some coffee makers are cheap enough that anyone can buy them, some are ridiculously expensive even though they are no better at making coffee. Neither of those things are outrageous. Outrage is a powerful word, and should be reserved for things where people have no choice in the matter. Religious Warlords kidnapping and force-impregnating young girls to punish them for going to school is outrageous. Goblinworks charging for PFO doesn't even come close.
Yes when you compare pfo to rape its not so bad. But if you compare pfo to a game that has an equal entry cost such as witcher 3, then pfo looks like shite. Its all in perspectives.
Why does that matter? Its outrageous for a company to charge a box price and sub for a game in PFO's state while claiming it is complete. It sets an unwelcome precedent because it opens the door to more of such distasteful behaviour. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
It's never outrageous to charge whatever you want for anything that people don't need. Like all other MMOs, it is a luxury item. Some coffee makers are cheap enough that anyone can buy them, some are ridiculously expensive even though they are no better at making coffee. Neither of those things are outrageous. Outrage is a powerful word, and should be reserved for things where people have no choice in the matter. Religious Warlords kidnapping and force-impregnating young girls to punish them for going to school is outrageous. Goblinworks charging for PFO doesn't even come close.
Hmm...
An online gaming forum.. people are discussing a certain game which underdelivers while demanding top prices.
People disagree with this..
Your answer to them is: "There are wars and injustice out there - that is worse!" on a gaming forum.. where people are discussing a game.
Good job
Power words are meant to evoke emotions that bring us to make our world a better place. Misusing powerful words on things that don't rate them cheapens the words and dulls people's responses to them, which in turn is bad for society. People can dislike things without calling them "epic," "catastrophic" or "outrageous" when they are no such thing.
Apparently you want to discuss world politics, philosophy and semantics?
There are some obviously hostile posters here. Pointing out that PfO is not going to "Destroy the MMO Industry" isn't getting any traction.
Being up front and describing the game as "a work in progress" and that those who don't enjoy such things should wait or (their choice) never play it, doesn't get any traction.
If someone ABSOLUTELY hates chocolate (for whatever reason, personal or a sense of guardianship to protect those they assume are weak willed), I suppose that they should put in some work to make sure that anyone, who has never tasted chocolate, ever tries chocolate.
For those that decide for themselves what they like or don't like, there are 15 day trials available.
No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/ Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms. Are You Ready to Smite Evil? ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
There are some obviously hostile posters here. Pointing out that PfO is not going to "Destroy the MMO Industry" isn't getting any traction.
Being up front and describing the game as "a work in progress" and that those who don't enjoy such things should wait or (their choice) never play it, doesn't get any traction.
If someone ABSOLUTELY hates chocolate (for whatever reason, personal or a sense of guardianship to protect those they assume are weak willed), I suppose that they should put in some work to make sure that anyone, who has never tasted chocolate, ever tries chocolate.
For those that decide for themselves what they like or don't like, there are 15 day trials available.
There are some obviously hostile posters here. Pointing out that PfO is not going to "Destroy the MMO Industry" isn't getting any traction.
Being up front and describing the game as "a work in progress" and that those who don't enjoy such things should wait or (their choice) never play it, doesn't get any traction.
If someone ABSOLUTELY hates chocolate (for whatever reason, personal or a sense of guardianship to protect those they assume are weak willed), I suppose that they should put in some work to make sure that anyone, who has never tasted chocolate, ever tries chocolate.
For those that decide for themselves what they like or don't like, there are 15 day trials available.
The game is bad and the current payment model is plain impudent.
Normally after some outcry of the community the game would simply be forgotten until one day we receive news that it's about to get shut down.
Now it happened that your CEO decided to tell people to hype the game as much as possible on any popular gaming forum.
So you guys keep posting and posting and posting.. of how this game is really important.
And then with every hype post you make you wonder why there are people posting that they strongly disagree.
Help me out here. Is my post (above) hyping the game?
I am not here because Ryan Dancey asked me to promote PfO, but I am sure it is still as useless to post that as it has always been. A friend that I play with told me that someone from the PfO player community was active here and misinforming the readers quite a bit. When I started reading, it became clear that there were a few people doing that. I was sucked right into the back and forth.
The game does not deserve misleading information. There are plenty of things to criticize, don't get me wrong or think that I disagree with that.
I am not attempting to deceive everyone by saying the game is ready for hordes of players or that everyone should believe it is worth the $$$.
I won't defend the pricing model that GW has set up, assuming that I am still fully aware of any changes. Personally, I get value out of my subscription and I have a lot of fun playing. There are things that I want which are not in yet, some that are not finished, and some that are annoying. Despite that: the enjoyment far out weighs the annoying, for myself and some others. Some of the annoying, the unfinished, and the features in development get fixed every 2 - 3 weeks.
There may be others that read these forums, try the game, and end up having fun. They might subscribe and that is good for the game, the community, and possibly may get me recruits. I certainly do not expect that number to be a high number. Not yet anyway.
Feeling that PfO is an important step in MMO design evolution and especially that it "will" have components that make it different AND better than previous "sandboxes" is opinion. I don't have any beef with anyone that does not agree with that. Why should anyone that disagrees, have a problem with a posted opinion?
Here is some hype and some opinion:
A large part of the game is designed around social ties and friendly connections.
*No one can do everything, unless they have multiple characters... Many.
*Trade is important. No one settlement is designed to be self sufficient.
*There really are reasons to have friends and belong to a company and/or settlement. (This from a previous MMO loner)
A player run economy, pretty much 100% player crafted..
*Great if you like to craft and no existing games scratch that itch for you. Crafters are valuable and wanted
*resources and products need to be moved manually. There is risk and possibly great reward.
Territory control through feuds and eventually wars.
*Hints about formation combat and sieges.
*Resources are finite. You need to keep others from your area or you can run out.
PVP anywhere, anytime with checks on it to slowdown random killing through a "Reputation System".
*Kill too often (outside of feuds, factions, or wars) and you won't be able to train skills until your rep recovers.
*So far, very affective. Not perfect but being worked on all the time.
No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/ Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms. Are You Ready to Smite Evil? ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
"Target-rich environment" PvP. Yup, as a primarilly PvE player that's got me real interested in the game. Just can't wait to become someone else's target dummy.
/snark
Amazement aside at how this sort of dialogue is meant to attract a broad spectrum of players, the subscription model test period is a huge red flag. Essentially the message is: We haven't gotten enough Kickstarter, early access, or venture capital to fund our development. Therefore, we want those of you who have shown an interest to pony up some more until we figure out how to be an actual, viable company.
As my Moms used to say, "That's throwing good money after bad."
Sad part is that some of the "fans" posting here, check out last few posts, are really not helping the game at all.
At this rate people that want this game to fail, or go f2p , just need to sit back and let these fans keeping posting like they are...
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
I am not here because Ryan Dancey asked me to promote PfO, but I am sure it is still as useless to post that as it has always been.
Surely you can understand the skepticism about that statement when Mr Dancey posted his request that his players come to this specific forum on April 25th and your first post is on April 26th (along with a few other 1st time posters) Only you know the truth but surely you can understand the optics from an outsider's viewpoint...
It certainly doesn't invalidate your viewpoint but at least for me it makes me skeptical.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I am not here because Ryan Dancey asked me to promote PfO, but I am sure it is still as useless to post that as it has always been.
Surely you can understand the skepticism about that statement when Mr Dancey posted his request that his players come to this specific forum on April 25th and your first post is on April 26th (along with a few other 1st time posters) Only you know the truth but surely you can understand the optics from an outsider's viewpoint...
It certainly doesn't invalidate your viewpoint but at least for me it makes me skeptical.
There is no room for skepticism or logic here!
PFO is the bestest thing to happen to gaming since the invention of the joystick!
Not very surprising at all. It seems (to me and only opinion) that you enjoy quoting material and twisting it way out of context because you (seem to) have an agenda. Possibly you do not like, actually hate, chocolate and you are hell bent on making sure that no one should like chocolate?
It makes perfect sense that you would expect anyone that challenges your viewpoint to be doing exactly the same thing.
No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/ Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms. Are You Ready to Smite Evil? ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
I won't defend the pricing model that GW has set up, assuming that I am still fully aware of any changes. Personally, I get value out of my subscription and I have a lot of fun playing. There are things that I want which are not in yet, some that are not finished, and some that are annoying. Despite that: the enjoyment far out weighs the annoying, for myself and some others. Some of the annoying, the unfinished, and the features in development get fixed every 2 - 3 weeks.
Im glad you feel like you are getting value for your money and are willing to invest in an unfinished product. You said you wont defend the pricing model but then go onto explain how you get value for your money. I dont think anyone was saying that some people might not feel they are getting a value for the money they are spending. I am equally sure gambling addicts feel they are getting value when some f2p game gets them to spend thousands of dollars on loot boxes. Games that have pricing models that are abusive should be called on it, and people should avoid those games if they care about this issue in games. Not sure it is wrong for anyone to call a company out for doing something that a person thinks is wrong, it is also not wrong to debate the issue or defend the game you like, I personally wouldnt give my money to a game that has a pricing model like this one does. I would be very surprised if this game ever honestly goes live given the state it is in now and the gap that is growing everyday between new players and the current players...
Honestly can a player who plays this game now explain what they think it would be like for a new person to start this game when it goes live? Im not gonna get a founders pack but I might play when it starts, whats chance do I have to start my own settlement or get my own thing going? How long would it take me to catch up to the current elite in this game if I wait to start till the game officially launches? What will stop the current players from getting annoyed at the huge influx of new people who need help learning? I see it all the time when a game goes on steam sale and bunches of new people crowd servers bombarding old players with questions instead of figuring it out themselves... If only a small part of a games launch community has beta tested it then the community is bonded by the experience of going through the launch together. When this game launches it will have a large community (not large enough to keep the game going) already established who feel they created the world and a huge new community taking first steps. From my experience in mmorpgs this is a recipe for disaster and likely makes many people not even wanna start playing it...
I won't defend the pricing model that GW has set up, assuming that I am still fully aware of any changes. Personally, I get value out of my subscription and I have a lot of fun playing. There are things that I want which are not in yet, some that are not finished, and some that are annoying. Despite that: the enjoyment far out weighs the annoying, for myself and some others. Some of the annoying, the unfinished, and the features in development get fixed every 2 - 3 weeks.
Im glad you feel like you are getting value for your money and are willing to invest in an unfinished product. You said you wont defend the pricing model but then go onto explain how you get value for your money. I dont think anyone was saying that some people might not feel they are getting a value for the money they are spending. I am equally sure gambling addicts feel they are getting value when some f2p game gets them to spend thousands of dollars on loot boxes. Games that have pricing models that are abusive should be called on it, and people should avoid those games if they care about this issue in games. Not sure it is wrong for anyone to call a company out for doing something that a person thinks is wrong, it is also not wrong to debate the issue or defend the game you like, I personally wouldnt give my money to a game that has a pricing model like this one does. I would be very surprised if this game ever honestly goes live given the state it is in now and the gap that is growing everyday between new players and the current players...
Honestly can a player who plays this game now explain what they think it would be like for a new person to start this game when it goes live? Im not gonna get a founders pack but I might play when it starts, whats chance do I have to start my own settlement or get my own thing going? How long would it take me to catch up to the current elite in this game if I wait to start till the game officially launches? What will stop the current players from getting annoyed at the huge influx of new people who need help learning? I see it all the time when a game goes on steam sale and bunches of new people crowd servers bombarding old players with questions instead of figuring it out themselves... If only a small part of a games launch community has beta tested it then the community is bonded by the experience of going through the launch together. When this game launches it will have a large community (not large enough to keep the game going) already established who feel they created the world and a huge new community taking first steps. From my experience in mmorpgs this is a recipe for disaster and likely makes many people not even wanna start playing it...
Lots of great questions and a few things that make little sense to me. I will try and answer them basically in the order that I am reading them. Not sure why, but I can't seem to use some of the features here. The PMs don't work beyond being able to read them. Almost none of the features when composing a post work, either.
I don't see how I am defending the pricing model if I state that I am having fun despite the pricing model. I think that it would be a great thing if GW were to do something to make it a bit more attractive to more people. "Fun" and "value" are both individually subjective. Most readers (I believe) are able to realize that my idea of "fun" and "value" might not match with theirs. Anyone that thinks it is worth a shot can get a free trial and examine it for themselves. The rest of that first part is built from your feeling that I am defending the price model. Not going to address that.
Your own Settlement: Here is what we know (so far) about settlements. Readers that know differently, please correct me.
1. There are many sites even in the beginning map that a settlement can be built on.
2. You need a Venture Company (think small guild). It has to have six+ members. It will be the "Parent Company" of the settlement. The controller.
3. You will probably have to have "Influence". Just about everything you do in the game earns you influence and it adds up (from each character) in a "pool" that the Venture Company can use for various things, like placing structures or declaring Feuds (penalty free PVP).
4. You will need to clear the hex of monsters, meaning at least any monster escalation that has spread into your target hex.
5. You will need a "Building Kit" which is crafted by a player with a decent rank in engineering. When you meet the conditions above, go to the hex and deploy the 'kit. That first kit will probably have to be a tower or something like that, and you add other types of buildings after that.
Your own thing (a Venture Company): All this requires is a single character to start a company.
Your own thing (something smaller than a Settlement);:Everything about your own settlement applies here. The cost will be lower however and can be done in most other map hexes other than those for settlements, badlands/craters, Monster (where escalations start) or Monster Home hexes (always the same mob types).
Catching up to the Elite (PVE): You have 1000xp the second that you create your character. Hunting mobs with high level players is dangerous. If you are careful and your party mates are watchful, you can contribute significantly to higher level PVE for less than a few hundred xp.
Note: The power levels revolve around 3 "tiers". Tier 1 is pretty much rank (or lvl) 1 - 6 in skills and gear. Tier 2 is rank 7 - 13. Tier 3 is 14 - 20. Tier 2 is where most action takes place. It is designed to be "the usual" everyday play and gear. At Tier 3 gear will be too expensive to use for everyday activities.
Catching up to the Elite (gathering): Miner, Dowser, Forester, Scavenger. If you focus, you can be gathering Tier 2 resources in 3.5 days in any one of those skills.
Catching up to the Elite (refining and crafting): Too many to list. If you focus, you can be refining gathered resources for Tier 2 components or crafting those components into gear in 14.5 days.
Catching up to the Elite (PVP): Somewhere around one month. In one vs one, somewhere around 2 months. I am probably over estimating the time required, but I want to err on the side of caution.
You will not need to be a part of any player settlement until you are reaching for rank (lvl) 9 skills.
Bugging the Elite with questions: Ask some people that have tried the game. The community is very supportive and willing to help new players. I have a really tough time imagining that changing. Besides all that play wanting the game to grow, new players are very, very valuable.
Anyone starting before the "official" public release, will have more contacts, more wealth, and a broader range of skills than a new player. There is no getting around that.
I am sorry that you have had bad experiences starting in other games after they have been around for awhile. And I acknowledge that being among "the First" is important to some players. Honestly, I have never started any other MMO at all near it's date of official release. Despite that, I have enjoyed most all of them.
No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/ Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms. Are You Ready to Smite Evil? ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
I am sorry that you have had bad experiences starting in other games after they have been around for awhile. And I acknowledge that being among "the First" is important to some players. Honestly, I have never started any other MMO at all near it's date of official release. Despite that, I have enjoyed most all of them.
How many Open World PvP games with looting, based around territory control have you started a year or more after the game opened? How long did you play? There is a reason that these games have a very short lifespan. They start, spike, and then end. The only game that defies that is EVE and let me assure you, this game is not EVE. EVE was a once in a lifetime confluence of luck where they had the right product, at the right time and there was no competition. It was also launched over 12 years ago. Expectations have changed. There is a reason that this model has been, and continues to be rejected by the public as implemented in PFO.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I am sorry that you have had bad experiences starting in other games after they have been around for awhile. And I acknowledge that being among "the First" is important to some players. Honestly, I have never started any other MMO at all near it's date of official release. Despite that, I have enjoyed most all of them.
How many Open World PvP games with looting, based around territory control have you started a year or more after the game opened? How long did you play? There is a reason that these games have a very short lifespan. They start, spike, and then end. The only game that defies that is EVE and let me assure you, this game is not EVE. EVE was a once in a lifetime confluence of luck where they had the right product, at the right time and there was no competition. It was also launched over 12 years ago. Expectations have changed. There is a reason that this model has been, and continues to be rejected by the public as implemented in PFO.
Straight up.... Just darkfall unholy wars. I played for a little more than 6 months. Not the same because you can grind xp if you are into that.
I am not sure that there are any other games that meet the criteria, besides EVE.
Still not convinced that a complete wipe would solve the issues. The flak from such a move would be....loud and might not change things at all.
What do you do for the people that have literally years invested in the game and their settlements? If you wipe their settlements, you might lose them. The 2nd land rush was a grueling affair. Do you give them credit for every month played or do you start over and credit them with a huge pile of xp?
As posted somewhere else, I could probably roll with it if it increased the population of players by 10 or 100 times the current. There just isn't a sure way to guarantee that would happen.
No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/ Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms. Are You Ready to Smite Evil? ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/ Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms. Are You Ready to Smite Evil? ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
What do you do for the people that have literally years invested in the game and their settlements? If you wipe their settlements, you might lose them. The 2nd land rush was a grueling affair. Do you give them credit for every month played or do you start over and credit them with a huge pile of xp?
THIS is why you wipe a game at "Open Launch". Customers should not have to decide between paying for a year or more of a game that most would consider in a Alpha/Beta stage or being a year or more behind.
I cannot project how many people they would attract if they wiped at launch. Honestly the game has many more issues. Most importantly the combat system and UI are horrendous. I think even if it were fully F2P at this point it would struggle. What I CAN project though, is that without a wipe there is zero chance it will succeed.
Looks like GW listened to at least SOME of my advice and are ditching the silly "buddy key" concept. Maybe they will listen to the rest.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
What do you do for the people that have literally years invested in the game and their settlements? If you wipe their settlements, you might lose them. The 2nd land rush was a grueling affair. Do you give them credit for every month played or do you start over and credit them with a huge pile of xp?
THIS is why you wipe a game at "Open Launch". Customers should not have to decide between paying for a year or more of a game that most would consider in a Alpha/Beta stage or being a year or more behind.
I cannot project how many people they would attract if they wiped at launch. Honestly the game has many more issues. Most importantly the combat system and UI are horrendous. I think even if it were fully F2P at this point it would struggle. What I CAN project though, is that without a wipe there is zero chance it will succeed.
Looks like GW listened to at least SOME of my advice and are ditching the silly "buddy key" concept. Maybe they will listen to the rest.
If it is you that they listened to, good job. I hope that what they are doing helps.
Are there any other games/have there been with the same MO profile as PfO?
Did they start with a fresh wipe at "official" launch? Where are they now?
Edit: Oh, I did also play UO for years. That doesn't quite meet the PfO MO either. It does match a few things.
No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/ Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms. Are You Ready to Smite Evil? ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
They dropped the box price and are now straight subscription. Someone earlier in the thread asked if they were listening to their players and used this as a specific point. I guess the answer is 'yes'.
They dropped the box price and are now straight subscription. Someone earlier in the thread asked if they were listening to their players and used this as a specific point. I guess the answer is 'yes'.
I am CROWDFORGING the game!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Comments
Hmm...
An online gaming forum.. people are discussing a certain game which underdelivers while demanding top prices.
People disagree with this..
Your answer to them is: "There are wars and injustice out there - that is worse!" on a gaming forum.. where people are discussing a game.
Good job
"Target-rich environment" PvP. Yup, as a primarilly PvE player that's got me real interested in the game. Just can't wait to become someone else's target dummy.
/snark
Amazement aside at how this sort of dialogue is meant to attract a broad spectrum of players, the subscription model test period is a huge red flag. Essentially the message is: We haven't gotten enough Kickstarter, early access, or venture capital to fund our development. Therefore, we want those of you who have shown an interest to pony up some more until we figure out how to be an actual, viable company.
As my Moms used to say, "That's throwing good money after bad."
It's never outrageous to charge whatever you want for anything that people don't need. Like all other MMOs, it is a luxury item. Some coffee makers are cheap enough that anyone can buy them, some are ridiculously expensive even though they are no better at making coffee. Neither of those things are outrageous. Outrage is a powerful word, and should be reserved for things where people have no choice in the matter. Religious Warlords kidnapping and force-impregnating young girls to punish them for going to school is outrageous. Goblinworks charging for PFO doesn't even come close.
Yes when you compare pfo to rape its not so bad. But if you compare pfo to a game that has an equal entry cost such as witcher 3, then pfo looks like shite. Its all in perspectives.Apparently you want to discuss world politics, philosophy and semantics?
I suggest using the Off Topic section then.
There are some obviously hostile posters here. Pointing out that PfO is not going to "Destroy the MMO Industry" isn't getting any traction.
Being up front and describing the game as "a work in progress" and that those who don't enjoy such things should wait or (their choice) never play it, doesn't get any traction.
If someone ABSOLUTELY hates chocolate (for whatever reason, personal or a sense of guardianship to protect those they assume are weak willed), I suppose that they should put in some work to make sure that anyone, who has never tasted chocolate, ever tries chocolate.
For those that decide for themselves what they like or don't like, there are 15 day trials available.
bringslite83@gmail.com
No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/
Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms.
Are You Ready to Smite Evil?
ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
The game is bad and the current payment model is plain impudent.
Normally after some outcry of the community the game would simply be forgotten until one day we receive news that it's about to get shut down.
Now it happened that your CEO decided to tell people to hype the game as much as possible on any popular gaming forum.
So you guys keep posting and posting and posting.. of how this game is really important.
And then with every hype post you wonder why there are people posting that they strongly disagree.
*edit for grammar fail in the summer heat*
Help me out here. Is my post (above) hyping the game?
I am not here because Ryan Dancey asked me to promote PfO, but I am sure it is still as useless to post that as it has always been. A friend that I play with told me that someone from the PfO player community was active here and misinforming the readers quite a bit. When I started reading, it became clear that there were a few people doing that. I was sucked right into the back and forth.
The game does not deserve misleading information. There are plenty of things to criticize, don't get me wrong or think that I disagree with that.
I am not attempting to deceive everyone by saying the game is ready for hordes of players or that everyone should believe it is worth the $$$.
I won't defend the pricing model that GW has set up, assuming that I am still fully aware of any changes. Personally, I get value out of my subscription and I have a lot of fun playing. There are things that I want which are not in yet, some that are not finished, and some that are annoying. Despite that: the enjoyment far out weighs the annoying, for myself and some others. Some of the annoying, the unfinished, and the features in development get fixed every 2 - 3 weeks.
There may be others that read these forums, try the game, and end up having fun. They might subscribe and that is good for the game, the community, and possibly may get me recruits. I certainly do not expect that number to be a high number. Not yet anyway.
Feeling that PfO is an important step in MMO design evolution and especially that it "will" have components that make it different AND better than previous "sandboxes" is opinion. I don't have any beef with anyone that does not agree with that. Why should anyone that disagrees, have a problem with a posted opinion?
Here is some hype and some opinion:
A large part of the game is designed around social ties and friendly connections.
*No one can do everything, unless they have multiple characters... Many.
*Trade is important. No one settlement is designed to be self sufficient.
*There really are reasons to have friends and belong to a company and/or settlement. (This from a previous MMO loner)
A player run economy, pretty much 100% player crafted..
*Great if you like to craft and no existing games scratch that itch for you. Crafters are valuable and wanted
*resources and products need to be moved manually. There is risk and possibly great reward.
Territory control through feuds and eventually wars.
*Hints about formation combat and sieges.
*Resources are finite. You need to keep others from your area or you can run out.
PVP anywhere, anytime with checks on it to slowdown random killing through a "Reputation System".
*Kill too often (outside of feuds, factions, or wars) and you won't be able to train skills until your rep recovers.
*So far, very affective. Not perfect but being worked on all the time.
No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/
Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms.
Are You Ready to Smite Evil?
ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
Sad part is that some of the "fans" posting here, check out last few posts, are really not helping the game at all.
At this rate people that want this game to fail, or go f2p , just need to sit back and let these fans keeping posting like they are...
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Surely you can understand the skepticism about that statement when Mr Dancey posted his request that his players come to this specific forum on April 25th and your first post is on April 26th (along with a few other 1st time posters) Only you know the truth but surely you can understand the optics from an outsider's viewpoint...
It certainly doesn't invalidate your viewpoint but at least for me it makes me skeptical.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
There is no room for skepticism or logic here!
PFO is the bestest thing to happen to gaming since the invention of the joystick!
Burn the heretic! :P
Yes. I can understand that.
Not very surprising at all. It seems (to me and only opinion) that you enjoy quoting material and twisting it way out of context because you (seem to) have an agenda. Possibly you do not like, actually hate, chocolate and you are hell bent on making sure that no one should like chocolate?
It makes perfect sense that you would expect anyone that challenges your viewpoint to be doing exactly the same thing.
No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/
Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms.
Are You Ready to Smite Evil?
ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
Im glad you feel like you are getting value for your money and are willing to invest in an unfinished product. You said you wont defend the pricing model but then go onto explain how you get value for your money. I dont think anyone was saying that some people might not feel they are getting a value for the money they are spending. I am equally sure gambling addicts feel they are getting value when some f2p game gets them to spend thousands of dollars on loot boxes. Games that have pricing models that are abusive should be called on it, and people should avoid those games if they care about this issue in games. Not sure it is wrong for anyone to call a company out for doing something that a person thinks is wrong, it is also not wrong to debate the issue or defend the game you like, I personally wouldnt give my money to a game that has a pricing model like this one does. I would be very surprised if this game ever honestly goes live given the state it is in now and the gap that is growing everyday between new players and the current players...
Honestly can a player who plays this game now explain what they think it would be like for a new person to start this game when it goes live? Im not gonna get a founders pack but I might play when it starts, whats chance do I have to start my own settlement or get my own thing going? How long would it take me to catch up to the current elite in this game if I wait to start till the game officially launches? What will stop the current players from getting annoyed at the huge influx of new people who need help learning? I see it all the time when a game goes on steam sale and bunches of new people crowd servers bombarding old players with questions instead of figuring it out themselves... If only a small part of a games launch community has beta tested it then the community is bonded by the experience of going through the launch together. When this game launches it will have a large community (not large enough to keep the game going) already established who feel they created the world and a huge new community taking first steps. From my experience in mmorpgs this is a recipe for disaster and likely makes many people not even wanna start playing it...
Lots of great questions and a few things that make little sense to me. I will try and answer them basically in the order that I am reading them. Not sure why, but I can't seem to use some of the features here. The PMs don't work beyond being able to read them. Almost none of the features when composing a post work, either.
I don't see how I am defending the pricing model if I state that I am having fun despite the pricing model. I think that it would be a great thing if GW were to do something to make it a bit more attractive to more people. "Fun" and "value" are both individually subjective. Most readers (I believe) are able to realize that my idea of "fun" and "value" might not match with theirs. Anyone that thinks it is worth a shot can get a free trial and examine it for themselves. The rest of that first part is built from your feeling that I am defending the price model. Not going to address that.
Your own Settlement: Here is what we know (so far) about settlements. Readers that know differently, please correct me.
1. There are many sites even in the beginning map that a settlement can be built on.
2. You need a Venture Company (think small guild). It has to have six+ members. It will be the "Parent Company" of the settlement. The controller.
3. You will probably have to have "Influence". Just about everything you do in the game earns you influence and it adds up (from each character) in a "pool" that the Venture Company can use for various things, like placing structures or declaring Feuds (penalty free PVP).
4. You will need to clear the hex of monsters, meaning at least any monster escalation that has spread into your target hex.
5. You will need a "Building Kit" which is crafted by a player with a decent rank in engineering. When you meet the conditions above, go to the hex and deploy the 'kit. That first kit will probably have to be a tower or something like that, and you add other types of buildings after that.
Your own thing (a Venture Company): All this requires is a single character to start a company.
Your own thing (something smaller than a Settlement);:Everything about your own settlement applies here. The cost will be lower however and can be done in most other map hexes other than those for settlements, badlands/craters, Monster (where escalations start) or Monster Home hexes (always the same mob types).
Catching up to the Elite (PVE): You have 1000xp the second that you create your character. Hunting mobs with high level players is dangerous. If you are careful and your party mates are watchful, you can contribute significantly to higher level PVE for less than a few hundred xp.
Note: The power levels revolve around 3 "tiers". Tier 1 is pretty much rank (or lvl) 1 - 6 in skills and gear. Tier 2 is rank 7 - 13. Tier 3 is 14 - 20. Tier 2 is where most action takes place. It is designed to be "the usual" everyday play and gear. At Tier 3 gear will be too expensive to use for everyday activities.
Catching up to the Elite (gathering): Miner, Dowser, Forester, Scavenger. If you focus, you can be gathering Tier 2 resources in 3.5 days in any one of those skills.
Catching up to the Elite (refining and crafting): Too many to list. If you focus, you can be refining gathered resources for Tier 2 components or crafting those components into gear in 14.5 days.
Catching up to the Elite (PVP): Somewhere around one month. In one vs one, somewhere around 2 months. I am probably over estimating the time required, but I want to err on the side of caution.
You will not need to be a part of any player settlement until you are reaching for rank (lvl) 9 skills.
Bugging the Elite with questions: Ask some people that have tried the game. The community is very supportive and willing to help new players. I have a really tough time imagining that changing. Besides all that play wanting the game to grow, new players are very, very valuable.
Anyone starting before the "official" public release, will have more contacts, more wealth, and a broader range of skills than a new player. There is no getting around that.
I am sorry that you have had bad experiences starting in other games after they have been around for awhile. And I acknowledge that being among "the First" is important to some players. Honestly, I have never started any other MMO at all near it's date of official release. Despite that, I have enjoyed most all of them.
No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/
Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms.
Are You Ready to Smite Evil?
ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
How many Open World PvP games with looting, based around territory control have you started a year or more after the game opened? How long did you play? There is a reason that these games have a very short lifespan. They start, spike, and then end. The only game that defies that is EVE and let me assure you, this game is not EVE. EVE was a once in a lifetime confluence of luck where they had the right product, at the right time and there was no competition. It was also launched over 12 years ago. Expectations have changed. There is a reason that this model has been, and continues to be rejected by the public as implemented in PFO.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Straight up.... Just darkfall unholy wars. I played for a little more than 6 months. Not the same because you can grind xp if you are into that.
I am not sure that there are any other games that meet the criteria, besides EVE.
Still not convinced that a complete wipe would solve the issues. The flak from such a move would be....loud and might not change things at all.
What do you do for the people that have literally years invested in the game and their settlements? If you wipe their settlements, you might lose them. The 2nd land rush was a grueling affair. Do you give them credit for every month played or do you start over and credit them with a huge pile of xp?
As posted somewhere else, I could probably roll with it if it increased the population of players by 10 or 100 times the current. There just isn't a sure way to guarantee that would happen.
No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/
Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms.
Are You Ready to Smite Evil?
ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
Some new details here:
Nope. Still can't even paste into threads here.
goblinworks.com/blog/update-to-pricing-free-trial
No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/
Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms.
Are You Ready to Smite Evil?
ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
THIS is why you wipe a game at "Open Launch". Customers should not have to decide between paying for a year or more of a game that most would consider in a Alpha/Beta stage or being a year or more behind.
I cannot project how many people they would attract if they wiped at launch. Honestly the game has many more issues. Most importantly the combat system and UI are horrendous. I think even if it were fully F2P at this point it would struggle. What I CAN project though, is that without a wipe there is zero chance it will succeed.
Looks like GW listened to at least SOME of my advice and are ditching the silly "buddy key" concept. Maybe they will listen to the rest.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If it is you that they listened to, good job. I hope that what they are doing helps.
Are there any other games/have there been with the same MO profile as PfO?
Did they start with a fresh wipe at "official" launch? Where are they now?
Edit: Oh, I did also play UO for years. That doesn't quite meet the PfO MO either. It does match a few things.
No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/
Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms.
Are You Ready to Smite Evil?
ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com
They dropped the box price and are now straight subscription. Someone earlier in the thread asked if they were listening to their players and used this as a specific point. I guess the answer is 'yes'.
I am CROWDFORGING the game!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018