[Column] General: The God Complex

SBFord

MMOs aren’t what they used to be in both good ways and bad. This week in Player Versus Player, we look at MMO storytelling and how every player is the hero. We call it, “The God Complex” and ask, are we losing the core of MMORPGs because of it?

Read more of Chris Coke's and Ryan Getchell's Player vs Player - The God Complex.

RemyVorender

I like MMOs that allow me to be a part of a reality alternate to that of my own day to day existence. I don't play MMOs to be the hero. If my actions in game make me "heroic" then so be it, but I don't want my destiny  to be pre-determined for me. I think the struggle to survive and even excel in a foreign/hostile environment is reward enough. 

 

Lately, I've been more into smaller-scale online multiplayer games that allow this kind of gameplay over "MMORPGs". See "7 Days to Die" for more of what I look for (which this and games like it should be covered here). It is more MMO than any MMO I've played in a long time. 

 

 

giftedHorn

I hate the "god complex" in MMOs and what's happened to World of Warcraft the last few expansions is an example of it.

 

When I want to be "the" hero, I play a single player game. I only play an MMO when I want to play with -- and assist -- other players. When I want to be a cog in the machine. Sometimes you do want to be a grunt, one of many. Part of a team, part of something bigger. That's what MMOs are -- were -- for.

 

But recent MMOs don't let me do that. Not even WoW any more. I can't just be an anonymous goblin that joined the Horde for reasons of his own, I have to be a rival of Gazlowe himself. Can't I just play a night elf warrior? No, I have to be the One That Saved Teldrassil. Well, forget you, WoW.

Arglebargle

All games have abstractions.  I just don't see how 'being the hero' is somehow worse than spending hours spawn camping orcs (or whatever) who teleport in to the same spot endlessly.

 

Neither of these is particularly immersive to me.

JDis25

I like being the hero, it doesn't bother me if other people are the hero. I just look at it in a roleplaying perspective, that the other player has been through their own unique adventure (even though it's the same one) I just pretend it isn't.

 

We need to remember these are games, and pretending/imagination can make all the difference sometimes.

 

Also, Rift did a good take on "the ascended". Meaning it made you the hero, but all players were equal in power and glory and were all created the same way and for the same purpose. Another player isn't just a parallel version of the "Main character" but rather another person just like you who ascended and returned to the mortal realm.

 

 

hallucigenocide

i'd be fine with being the hero if i got to decide how i go about it.. but most mmo's dont let you do that.

Bitrip

I don't have a god complex, I have a fish complex. I want to be in the water. I LOVE games that incorporate meaningful/fun underwater exploration and/or combat. That was initially why I fell in love with Guild Wars 2.

flizzer

Originally posted by Bitrip
I don't have a god complex, I have a fish complex. I want to be in the water. I LOVE games that incorporate meaningful/fun underwater exploration and/or combat. That was initially why I fell in love with Guild Wars 2.

And I bet your favorite movie is the Incredible Mr. LImpet!

Bladestrom

This thread in many symbolises the lack of imagination and dependancy some of the modern culture has. Ofc a game can have a million Heros, the game provides the functionally and back story and you as the pkayer provides the imagination and ability to immerse. Now when modern MMO translate being a hero to being top of a ehore meter or league table, and players learn this and lose the ability to enjoy their avatar as just that then there lies the problem.

Can't immerse, can't imagine, can't engage with the story, allways look over that fence at others with their titanic shoulder plates of much muchness - your no hero, your controlling a graphic in a game.

grimgryphon

Originally posted by remyburke

I like MMOs that allow me to be a part of a reality alternate to that of my own day to day existence. I don't play MMOs to be the hero. If my actions in game make me "heroic" then so be it, but I don't want my destiny  to be pre-determined for me. I think the struggle to survive and even excel in a foreign/hostile environment is reward enough. 

 

Lately, I've been more into online multiplayer games that allow this kind of gameplay over "MMORPGs". See 7 Days to Die for more of what I look for. It is more MMO than any MMO I've played in a long time. 

Agreed.

 

I think 7 Days to Die is more MMO-like than any MMO running today.

danwest58

"MMORPGs are suppose to be social games, yet the God Complex is removing that aspect. You can’t be the hero if your friend or a group of people are also heroes. Do you agree that the God Complex is something that should stay in single player games and should have never been introduced into MMOs?"

 

This is the very point I have made about MMOs for years now.  They are designed around you being a GOD like I would be if I am playing Neverwinter Nights 1/2, or Diablo or any other Single Player RPG.  So when people bitch that MMOs are not Single player base, I say that there are games designed for Single Player, they are Single Player games NOT MMOs.  Even during the time of Sandbox MMOs, A Crafter could not make it in the world alone they needed to interact with players on some level.  Maybe a friend would protect them as they mined, or they would have a network of crafters that they can buy or trade mats with.  

 

Then add to that; that Today's MMOs have instances and these instances are designed to be done with a group.  The first reason there are instances is because in the old days of MMOs players like me which might have a friend or 2 with me owned very highly important spawns.  50 people fighting over 1 monster that would spawn is stupid.  Put them in an instance where 10 groups of 5 can do it together and everyone has a chance at loot not just the 1 person who was lucky enough to get the first or last hit in.  

 

Add to that; MMOs need more people like me than solo players and no this is not a complex issue or me saying I am better.  It comes down to things like this.  I play FFXIV with my wife, 3 other friends.  So I account for 5 subscriptions in FFXIV, I started playing FFXIV again my wife followed me and so did 3 other friends I talked into playing.  We all run stuff together we are GROUP minded players but that does not mean we dont do solo content, we just put playing together over and solo content.  NOW add to that last night another one of my friends re-subbed last night.  So now I account for 6 Subs.  That is $77.94 per month coming from me and my friends I brought into FFXIV TO PLAY WITH.  NOT TO RUN SOLO.

 

Now most solo focused players who want nothing to do with end game grouping they want Solo instances they want nothing to do with other people.  Most of these players are like me 2 cousins who played Elder Scrolls.  They tried ESO they want nothing to do with play with other player OR a Subscription OR a cash shop.  They want to BUY and PLAY the game THEMSELVES.  So How much are you going to get out of my cousins who B2P games?  The price of the Box and thats it.  How can you make money as an MMO with B2P type players?  Yea people can say the cash shop and what not however what is the average people spend in there?  Most post I seen and data I seen is around $5 a month and thats because these games have high spenders and people who spend nothing like my cousins.  

 

So which is really the more sustainable model?  Having an MMO where GROUPING is the normal however it is not over baring like FFXI grouping was.  Why?  Because you get people like me who end up friending people and running with them again.  Then when we move on to another MMO (WOW to FFXIV) I bring my friends along.  I am not just 1 player I am a player who brings a group of friends.  

shalissar

I like how some mmo's do it where you're not THE hero but you're a part of a population of heros. I think that's the best you're going to get for most themepark mmos. I don't play video games to act out being some sort of helpless human dickin' around out in the wild, I can go outside and do that myself. But at the same time, there's a bit of a disconnect. We can't all be involved in a virtual world's major changes. It's silly that, even in an instanced game, you go through something, say an apocalyptic event that changes the terrain, but that terrain is changed for no one else but you and whomever else finished that quest.

I can definitely see the appeal of the sandbox game in this respect. It's where people can make their own content and make a name for themselves and be who they want to be within a community. I think I just want to see more darkfalls with less griefing and more polish. *clap clap* Get to it, industry.

Wizardry

I don't mind it as far as telling the story part of a mmo because there is no other way of doing it because to advance to each new part fop the story you pretty much have to beat the last part,simple design really.

However the story should be a relatively small part of the game's content,there should be a lot of content that you can call your own.There should also be epic  battles that involve a whole zone of players,example npc's attacking that zone and the players need to protect it and the local npc's.Or perhaps invasions out in the open before they get to the city/zones.That would support the heroic feeling as players protect their home town and npc's and still be a fun part of the game.

However the worst thing i can think of is in that picture.....DO NOT give me anything with yellow markers over the head...no thanks Blizzard !!.There is nothing Heroic about a yellow marker over Garrosh's head.

Foomerang

---

Originally posted by danwest58
"MMORPGs are suppose to be social games, yet the God Complex is removing that aspect. You can’t be the hero if your friend or a group of people are also heroes. Do you agree that the God Complex is something that should stay in single player games and should have never been introduced into MMOs?"

 

This is the very point I have made about MMOs for years now.  They are designed around you being a GOD like I would be if I am playing Neverwinter Nights 1/2, or Diablo or any other Single Player RPG.  So when people bitch that MMOs are not Single player base, I say that there are games designed for Single Player, they are Single Player games NOT MMOs.  Even during the time of Sandbox MMOs, A Crafter could not make it in the world alone they needed to interact with players on some level.  Maybe a friend would protect them as they mined, or they would have a network of crafters that they can buy or trade mats with.  

 

Then add to that; that Today's MMOs have instances and these instances are designed to be done with a group.  The first reason there are instances is because in the old days of MMOs players like me which might have a friend or 2 with me owned very highly important spawns.  50 people fighting over 1 monster that would spawn is stupid.  Put them in an instance where 10 groups of 5 can do it together and everyone has a chance at loot not just the 1 person who was lucky enough to get the first or last hit in.  

 

Add to that; MMOs need more people like me than solo players and no this is not a complex issue or me saying I am better.  It comes down to things like this.  I play FFXIV with my wife, 3 other friends.  So I account for 5 subscriptions in FFXIV, I started playing FFXIV again my wife followed me and so did 3 other friends I talked into playing.  We all run stuff together we are GROUP minded players but that does not mean we dont do solo content, we just put playing together over and solo content.  NOW add to that last night another one of my friends re-subbed last night.  So now I account for 6 Subs.  That is $77.94 per month coming from me and my friends I brought into FFXIV TO PLAY WITH.  NOT TO RUN SOLO.

 

Now most solo focused players who want nothing to do with end game grouping they want Solo instances they want nothing to do with other people.  Most of these players are like me 2 cousins who played Elder Scrolls.  They tried ESO they want nothing to do with play with other player OR a Subscription OR a cash shop.  They want to BUY and PLAY the game THEMSELVES.  So How much are you going to get out of my cousins who B2P games?  The price of the Box and thats it.  How can you make money as an MMO with B2P type players?  Yea people can say the cash shop and what not however what is the average people spend in there?  Most post I seen and data I seen is around $5 a month and thats because these games have high spenders and people who spend nothing like my cousins.  

 

So which is really the more sustainable model?  Having an MMO where GROUPING is the normal however it is not over baring like FFXI grouping was.  Why?  Because you get people like me who end up friending people and running with them again.  Then when we move on to another MMO (WOW to FFXIV) I bring my friends along.  I am not just 1 player I am a player who brings a group of friends.  

---

I play FFXIV. I don't want to be a god, or the hero. I want my character to be a part of Eorzea. A disciple of the land. But SE has forced me to be the hero in order to keep playing in the expansion. And people like you have basically told me to stop complaining or find another game to play.
Now it seems you're anti god complex. Which is it?

Distopia

I've never really had a problem with this TBH, then again I don't play every MMORPG that comes along, I really only get into games with lore and worlds that interest me. I usually find that out in beta... so by the time I'm really getting into the story, I'm already engaged into the world itself. Most of it in the end depends on the suspension of disbelief, if you have problems doing that, than you're going to have problems of this sort.

I also think a big part of it is over-analyzing these games as well as the stories within them.

KenFisher

In an MMORPG, I don't want to play a game, I want to play in the gameworld.

 

If an MMORPG forces me to be the hero, then it's forcing me to play a game.

 

That's not why I'm there.

 

My only exception is in the rare event that the game it's forcing me to play is outstanding.  The last time that happened was Tortage in Age of Conan.  It wasn't much of an MMORPG, but it was an excellent game.

 

NOTE:  I'm okay with MMORPGs being games instead of gameworlds.  People like it.  It's just not what I'm looking for.

 

Cecropia

Originally posted by ZombieKen

In an MMORPG, I don't want to play a game, I want to play in the gameworld.

 

If an MMORPG forces me to be the hero, then it's forcing me to play a game.

 

That's not why I'm there.

 

My only exception is in the rare event that the game it's forcing me to play is outstanding.  The last time that happened was Tortage in Age of Conan.  It wasn't much of an MMORPG, but it was an excellent game.

 

NOTE:  I'm okay with MMORPGs being games instead of gameworlds.  People like it.  It's just not what I'm looking for.

 

This is what excited me so much about getting started in WoW prior to it's launch (missed out on the classics, sadly). Every time I'd see an add in a magazine I would fire up Warcraft 3 and just let my imagination go wild. When I finally got to set foot in Azeroth it was everything I had hoped it would be.

I've had the pleasure of experiencing many different MMO "worlds" since then, and I've loved every minute.

For me, this combined with real "massively" is what separates this genre from the rest.

I have countless games to play, but when I hop into an MMO, I'm looking for more than just a game; I want to experience a "world".

eye_m

I don't like it. It's bad enough that all the other players follow me around like I'm some sort of superstar, I don't need the game to do it too.

robert154e

For some reason, Ultima Online Pre-EA comes to mind... Before the Age of Shadows expansion, etc... Want to be just a crafter, go ahead... Want to be an archer, go ahead. Want to be everything, sorry, you cannot master everything... Ahh the good ole days.

Yoofaloof

They should do away with quest text for one to be honest as in my experience players just click, click clickety click, then they're off to the next one. You are not telling me they know what the hell's going on by the time they reach endgame? I can remember I was in a group once in WoW and I like to soak it all in and read the text etc, and by the time I'd finished the rest of my group had disappeared and were reading a walkthrough as to where loot was etc - great, why play?

unfilteredJW

I'm not playing these games to be Uncle freakin' Owen.

rounner

I disagree with the guest. I believe that hero games are mutually exclusive with non hero games. I believe that a be the hero game is targeting a younger demographic.

A game where you focus on team work and perhaps play a well defined role or simply play your field position in a fight is more suited to those out of the self centred teens. Achievement is in successful team work, not idolisation or validation of oneself that is needed by someone that is not comfortable yet with their adult identity.

So my argument then is that the majority of games target a young audience and it would be good to see some more games less focussed on solo mechanics.

strawhat0981

Originally posted by rounner

I disagree with the guest. I believe that hero games are mutually exclusive with non hero games. I believe that a be the hero game is targeting a younger demographic.

A game where you focus on team work and perhaps play a well defined role or simply play your field position in a fight is more suited to those out of the self centred teens. Achievement is in successful team work, not idolisation or validation of oneself that is needed by someone that is not comfortable yet with their adult identity.

So my argument then is that the majority of games target a young audience and it would be good to see some more games less focussed on solo mechanics.

I just cannot agree with anything you wrote. More so, for what I highlighted in red.

mightyfelix45

Originally posted by remyburke

Lately, I've been more into smaller-scale online multiplayer games that allow this kind of gameplay over "MMORPGs". See "7 Days to Die" for more of what I look for (which this and games like it should be covered here). It is more MMO than any MMO I've played in a long time. 

 Thx a lot for mention this game here (7 days to die)..I would never would have found it. I play a lot mmorpg but getting tired of them cause all of them are similar...I was about to start playing DayZ to playsomething new but I saw in the review that it came out strong but now is going down..then I was going to check  H1Z1 once again I read  the review and saw that have a huge amount of hacker, so I was like  which one should I check, till I saw ur comment about 7 Days to Die. once again Thank You!!!!

 

 

mightyfelix45

Thx a lot for mention this game here (7 days to die)..I would never would have found it. I play a lot mmorpg but getting tired of them cause all of them are similar...I was about to start playing DayZ to playsomething new but I saw in the review that it came out strong but now is going down..then I was going to check  H1Z1 once again I read  the review and saw that have a huge amount of hacker, so I was like  which one should I check, till I saw ur comment about 7 Days to Die. once again Thank You!!!!

 

 

jshrmstrng

I've heard someone else mention this issue they had recently, in a WoW vlog specifically, but seriously I don't get it.  Are you really playing an MMO worrying about if you're the hero or not?  I don't know about you, but I couldn't give a shit NPC's are calling me a hero or the story says you're some chosen one or whatever..  I've started playing FFXIV in the last couple of weeks and the story treats you like you're this 'Hero of the Light', but it's literally the least important thing to me in the game.  I'm more worried about levelling up the different classes and jobs.  The story is like an extra bit on the side.  I seriously don't get why people are whinging about it like it ruins games for them... I guess I'm just trying to say that if you really enjoy the game you're playing because it has great combat, looks awesome, whatever, then this should not even be on your radar as an issue....