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Is EQNext Vaporware?
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No... by that stand the guy building a new car in a garage would be confused as the garage and the car would be the same entity and they are not. EQN and Landmark are very different games. EQN is still being built but Landmark is just a tool thats really fun to play with if you like to build (the garage), EQN is that car.
Not everyone can handle difference of opinion. Blocking is easy way out.
Anyone can fabricate an analogy to suit their views, but that does not mean they accurately represent the topic being discussed. It is pointless to talk about auto repair shops instead of the actual topic, unless you are trying to dismiss or obfuscate the specific issues that are distinct to the issue at hand.
EQN/Landmark are one development process. The "landmark" phase is over and now the team is working to take what they have and make that into EQN. The EQN that the team talks about are still just concepts right now.
Though I think you are right and there is a lot of confusion going on behind the scenes.
People dont like illustrations when it proves them wrong because it makes it so easy to see why they are wrong. There is no confusion but for a handful like yourself. My guess is you have not played Landmark and if you did it was no longer then a free week beta key. You know so little real info on the game and do nothing but spout common misconceptions, that anyone who has played the game, really played the game knows how far off the mark people like you are.
I guess that is one way to look at the situation.
Another would be that when someone resorts to hypothetical examples about topics that are completely unrelated to MMOs and then throwing around personal insults, that person really doesn't have much of a point about the actual topic.
However, you bring up the issue of actually playing the game and it makes me wonder. How much EQN have you played to make such claims about all those other things that you think make it such a different game that anyone can see the difference?
I've seen what the developers say they want to do. Where they say these things are still just concepts and they are now starting to work on them. Where they say they are still in the research phase. They say they want to make EQN a different game than Landmark, so I'm curious where you are getting these facts from about the game existing currently.
In all fairness, both of you are talking out your asses. You know as much about the current state of the product as he does, I'm sure. Regardless of what the final "product" is, the one thing that is certain is that there is enough of a game that a VC firm invested, possibly, hundreds of millions of dollars to acquire it. As a general rule of thumb, VC firms don't buy losers, they perform extensive (actually brutally painful) due diligence, and CN is absolutely no noob when it comes to technology, so I highly doubt that the wool was pulled over their eyes. They have a whole division dedicated to tech firms and they could have (probably did) brought in a laundry list of tech geeks who could rip apart the code and tell CN the exact state of the game and a ballpark number on what it'll cost to finish it. I'm not saying bad investments don't happen, but not generally on massive investments like SOE would have been.
Crazkanuk
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The EQ:N / Landmark division is one example of what I've been saying all along. The developers specifically said that these were two distinct projects, but it is clear that these projects are (and have been) intermingled. What they have stated and the reality are two different things, a clear sign that something significant has changed. At best, the separation of these two projects only amounts to an online public server for Landmark (complete with cash shop) and an offline private server for EQ:N.
The point I've tried to make over numerous posts is that we simply do not know what else has changed. We've seen glimpses of drastic upheaval that points to significant change (SB evicted) but the dev-speak denies that change (In-house AI). This appears to be a case where some members are following their ears over their eyes. They are drawn towards the sound of a dinner bell in the distance, willingly blind to the dangers around them.
Again, it is a matter of belief.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Telling someone they are talking out the side of their mouth or out of both sides of their mouth is not an insult unless your skin is so thin your transparent. Just means your contradicting yourself or of two minds on a subject. lol
We are all speculating and sharing theories. Some have information to support them, others don't.
Though I do disagree with your assessment of the VC firms. They do their homework, but by their very nature they invest in risks. VC investments don't always pay out.
I'm not sure what would possibly make anyone think SOE had a value of 100 million dollars, let alone double or triple that. Just looking at the assets speaks to the contrary. That SOE was dumped to eliminate a financial drain to Sony and avoid another public downsizing.
The assumption being made is that Columbus Nova bought SOE and that EQN is somehow a great investment with huge potential. Not huge enough for Sony to keep it, but somehow worth huge sums of money to Columbus Nova... even though the game is still just concepts and research at this point?
The problem is everything speaks to the contrary of that theory. That CN bought the division, fired staff, cut contracts and stripped it down to a point where it maybe makes enough to support itself and even generate a little money. Possibly they push out some existing titles to other platforms like Xbox, PS4, mobile and maybe they make a real effort at EQN. Then again, maybe they don't. There is nothing that says EQN was the gem that CN purchased. why do you think no other gaming company bought SOE?
Just for perspective, the guys at Storybricks were able to secure funding to purchase SOE. Do you think banks were willing to give those guys hundreds of millions to buy SOE? Keep in mind their service was cut from EQN and the company went belly up.
What I do know is that EQN doesn't exist beyond what has been developed for Landmark.
EQN fanboys reminds me something strange I saw on TV maybe 2 years ago. A man and a woman desperately looking for ... Excalibur, yeah the sword. Of course they haven't found it ! But the woman said to journalist (i try to remember the words) " We haven't found it yet (lol) but doesn't mean excalibur is only a myth" EQN fanboys are desperately waiting for their Excalibur.
I pretty much agree with Daffid's point here. The common speculation is that SOE was worth X amount, and CN paid at least that and that EQ:N was the major purchase decision. The SOEmote technology is probably a bigger selling point than an unfinished game. The Everquest IP also has value and SOE's existing operational portfolio has some degree of revenue. But it could be that CN simply needed a source of losses for tax write-offs. SOE may have simply fit their (unknown) business needs.
And sorry, Kanuk, I'd have to disagree with your assertion that CN had its technical people look at EQ:N beforehand. In my career, I was involved with 2 takeovers, once by a venture capitalist firm and once by a competitor. In neither case were people from the other company allowed to access code for existing products. It was all done at a financial level and comparing target markets, assets and liabilities. Maybe CN did actually assess the code for several products prior to making their decisions, but it seems irregular in my experience.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Well, SOE is bought by a investment company.
What such companies do is buy a company in trouble, that might be losing money, so acquire it, strip it of everything that is draining money and sell the shell again, thus making a profit. It is all they do.
SOE was bought out, what you could expect is staff being let go, projects scrapped and inventory being sold.
Could take a year, or maybe two, and SOE or whatever it's new name is, Daybreak or something, is -very- probably for sale again.
This is not good for EQN though.
With this knowledge and ofc Smedley the MMO Destroyer still on board I would expect a shell release of EQN, but not the game the original devs intended it to be.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
As has been said we don't know what CN "bought" or what they "paid upfront"
Does your 8 ball predict that a quality release of an EQ reboot wouldn't garner money making numbers? FFXIV would say you are likely wrong about that. It's a fairly old school style game in a new skin and doing quite well and they invested money into it at twice the cost.
I suggest that SE didn't "invest" money in FF XIV though. I know it sounds mad and - for sure - since they "spent" money on the game..
I suggest that what they invested in was the Final Fantasy brand - and to some extent their own reputation as a games company. Both had been tarnished as a result of the FF XIV release.
They may never recover the extra money they spent from FF XIV - but I suspect they will get it back from FFXV, the next FF film, comic etc.
And whilst you could compare a rebooted EQ with FFXIV the EQ brand is a pale shadow of what the FF brand is.
I try to stay optimistic but I agree with you completely especially your comment about Smedley.
Del Cabon
A US Army ('Just Cause') Vet and MMORPG Native formerly of Trinsic, Norath and Dereth. Currently playing LOTRO.
I have no emotional or fanboy devotion to EQN, but I would like to see it become what was presented, why anyone wouldn't is beyond me. I'm a gamer and hope games do well, especially when they potentially could provide an experience not found anywhere else and even more so could move the genre in a different direction by using relatively untapped tech and features.
I also like to ramble my views on matters when people try to use their opinion as fact and spread misinformation to others that might not know better. Rather pointless all around, but it's the internet.
EQN haters remind me of folks that like to stand around holding signs and shouting nasty things to make people feel bad for no real reason beyond being nasty.
Don't really see the point of going into a forum about a product you don't like and trying to trash talk or make others feel poorly for liking it. Regardless if they are blind fanboys or not.
Unfortunately this site is full of people with way too much opinion that like to tell everyone else what is or isn't okay to play, like, believe, etc.
Please tell me what your point is in as few words as possible. The topic being EQN being Vaporware that is.
Then if you would be so kind, what your point is spreading your negative views on this forum about the company, it's history, past development problems and never speaking about the actual "game" itself.
All I seem to see is SOE/Daybreak suck, they've failed in the past so likely to do the same with EQN. The end.
Is that the basic idea you are trying to get across? Do you have some other point, agenda, view that I'm missing?
If we all accept what is already common knowledge, will you move on to another topic?
Basically all of this is coming down to "my lack of proof is better than your lack of proof." It is very silly.
Not everyone that believes this game will fail wants it to fail. They really are two different views that some keep trying to lump together.
Likewise, the possibility that a game might move the genre forward is awesome. Even the grumpiest of grumps would love that even if they don't admit it.
Though that doesn't mean everything should be viewed through rose colored glasses as the opposite is not only true, but there is many great examples of projects so poorly managed and rushed to market it has set the genre back and chased away developers from trying anything new.
Star wars galaxies?
Warhammer?
Star Wars The Old Republic?
Sims online
That is just a few of the many.
I've said it several times. I don't think EQN is vaporware. I do think it is closer to being cancelled than it is to being released in a decent condition. As for speaking about the game, where are those threads at? Yeah, back to the whole "Daybreak please communicate with us". Hard for players to talk about something when the developer wont even talk about it and keeps jerking players around.
Sorry you don't like the negative information being shared here, but you can't expect everyone else to ignore everything just so you don't have to see it. It sounds like you want a fansite where people only discuss happy ideas. Is there a fansite?
As for proof. There is plenty of credible information and supporting history in this thread about the issues going on and why almost everyone has a negative outlook on the game. The counter points seem to be that if against all odds the game is somehow good it will be good and look at the new concept art the developers released.
True, the critics and negative folks do get lumped together, but then so do blind fanboys and optimists.
Also agree that we should avoid wearing glasses that limit our views.
Guess I just miss the point of repeatedly pointing out the obvious. Such as EQN could not turn out well. I really don't see anyone disagreeing with this belief. I'm not seeing anyone go "EQN will be a WoW killer, the best game ever, life changing no matter what!" I see a few that want it to do well that still have common sense that anything could happen and currently there isn't much proof of them actually creating what they hyped.
I'm just trying to figure out what you are trying to get out of this or where you are trying to take the conversation moving forward. I find posters more interesting than the game currently as there clearly isn't one to talk about.
Company bad, history poor, EQN not doing great. And then?
There was over a year of discussions about the game's concept, design, vision, hyped features etc and you seem to have came in relatively recently to simply point out the very obvious history of the company and that thinks aren't sunshine and rainbows. Anyone still reading this forum should know these things and if not, you and a some others have made it very clear.
Just doesn't seem to have an end goal or point. Is the goal to drive everyone away so there are no new posts? If the few positive folks leave will the negative folks just pat each other on the back?
You don't suggest things they could do to improve, discuss anything you've seen that you actually like or dislike about the concept itself, or have anything to say beyond the simplification I stated above.
I'm not looking for a fansite or blind fanboys, just move the conversation forward or in a different direction would be great.
Where do we go from here after knowing what we do?
Should I just accept that this is a SOE/Daybreak complaint and trash talk forum and move on? EQN itself isn't worth talking about?
I'm sure someone with an opinion on everything can let me know what I should do.
Not really that applicable to the MMO space considering FF14 is struggling to keep more players than EQ had 15 years ago... you know, when there was a fraction of the people on the internet that there are today.
I am sorry but I think the two sections highlighted in red are tantamount to saying it is varporware, and yet you persist in saying you do not think it is vaporware. The only way you can maintain both is if you are certain there will be an official announcement either of release or cancellation some time soon-ish.
Personally I think we are more likely to learn of some new DBG project involving Terry Michaels and others like Emily Taylor (Domino) and/or their leaving DBG. While we get small snippets of information about EQN less and less frequently as it quietly fades away.