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Locusts, Zerging, Objective hugging, & Game Rushers/Power levelers
This game seems uniquely intricate and has new stuff to offer. But in the end, all these unique designs, like every game we have seen released in the past, will be overcome by the hulk smash (zerging, content locusts, power levelers, game rushers, objective hugging). As cool and unique as everything is, I am eager to see if this game still doesn't offer up the one fastest way to EXP, Gold, RPS, PVP points etc that all other games do and that many gamers discover within 2 days of the game being live and then having the majority of gamers having everything or close to max level gear within a month (obviously they will hit level cap in a week or so, but I mean being completely geared up, or just like a handful of pieces short)
Yeah in Guild Wars 2 you could do trade runs for points, but why not just zerg a keep and get way more. It seems like all the cool stuff that innovative games have offered in the past (ESO, GW2, FFXIV, etc) will all be lost once the masses figure out the fastest and most effective way to get gold, exp, and pvp points (and yes I know you will argue that there are many paths etc etc, but in almost all mmo's there has been one insano fastest way to getting gold or exp or pvp points or all together in an extremely cheap way that makes the game lame
We have seen it in FFXIV where people sit in town, wait for a mission/objective to spawn, run 30 seconds, hit it twice, then move on to the next, getting 3-5 levels an hour until however many short hours later you are leveled up. Or ESO where people just objective humped their way to 3 levels an hour. Or the way people gamed the ESO WvW system and just objectives nonstop. Same for guild wars 2.
So my point is, I am really interested to see how all cool intricacies don't get smashed to pieces by the content locusts and I-win easy path people. We always hear all this stuff about how a game is going to have this cool aspect to it where XZY innovative thing is in the game. But that innovative whatever it is always ends up being thrown to the wayside once the game rushers blow by or through it
EDIT: People always say let other people play the want to play etc, but that's the equivalent to an ostrich sticking his head in the sand. So I would rather find out if the game can put in some controls so that people can't fastmode it to the top within a week or month and then also make taking pvp objectives worth something like making them take hours instead of the 5-60 seconds they take now (and yes current MMO keeps fall in the current 60-120 seconds now, with smaller things taking 5-20 seconds)
Comments
Oh boy, you are really asking for it now.
Have you not learned anything from the "fatigue system" in the initial FFXIV? Or the "labor regen" in Archeage? Or any of a myriad of other such systems that developers have tried to implement to accomplish exactly what you are proposing?
Long story short, any such systems are met with holy hell by the masses of entitled gamers now days. Like you said, if they can't rush to cap in a couple of days, or get the BiS gear in a couple of weeks, all hell breaks lose.
Its just the sad state of gaming now days. To them, the game doesn't start until end game. Everything else that gets in the way of that is just a "grind" and a "chore."
/awful
yeah I was thinking more of a good ole fashioned EQ or DAOC style climb to the top. Or if you die you lose levels etc like in EQ, or it just takes you an insano amount of time to get to the level cap ala olden days of DAOC.
The fatigue system in Archeage was fine, I didn't mind it. But I don't like Dungeon Locks, so I guess I can see how people don't like fatigue systems. So just making it plain old long and tough like EQ/DAOC is fine, but then I guess there is the argument that they have to placate casuals now. (don't want to get flamed by casuals here, as I don't consider myself hardcore, but I will be hardcore if the game is worth it, but if its not I will casually play). Anyways, I wont get into casual vs hardcore play, cuz casual placation is what got us to "you can level just as fast solo as we don't want you to spend time LFG".
I'd like the leveling to be so slow you have to be immersed in the scenery and detailed intricacies and you can't just barrel through them. Anyway, the game on paper seems very fun, but I'm going to wait and see how this turns out, maybe I will check in on it every 6 months to a year before it comes out, and find out how long it takes to ding 50. If its within a week I might pass on this.
Too bad they made it a big campaign system. But its too early to start getting into any of this.
I'm with you and I consider myself very casual. I really don't see the correlation with casual having to be easy. I am sure there were many of us playing those older games that were casual. The difference between now and then is that now there is this expectation of unfairness if casuals don't get to progress as quickly as those who play more often. Back then no one cared about that. If you couldn't find time to play then it was tough luck.
Then again, I've never been the type that needs to be first or the best. I like to take my time and enjoy the journey. I know that eventually I will get to the top and be able to compete with the best but I am in no rush to get there. So many players now days say they want hard core, and complain things have been dumbed down, but when anyone suggests a game to have features such as loss of exp or loss of levels on death, or journeys in leveling, or any of these other hard core features they whine incessantly.
It's just a different time, different games, different gamers.
That's the impression I was getting, too. More of a focus on the skirmishes and multiple smaller, faster battles inside of larger, longer objectives.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
As long as levelling/collecting points/gearing up is the main/major focus of a game all those things you describe are going to occur. People will find the most efficient, organized way to get what they want. I would say longer levelling curves, harsher penalties, and the like only make the gap between the locusts/power gamers and other players wider.
For anyone who wants a long and slow levelling curve, check out Camelot Unchained.
/blends into the background
I feel you, OP. A lot of this, I think, is due to the fact that every single new MMO coming out is lauded as "groundbreaking!" and "innovative!" way, way before its time. (Remember how many times those adjectives were used to describe Gw 2? Yeah....)
Sad fact is that we have yet to see anything fitting those descriptors, honestly. Advertising in general has a tendency to be dishonest to a certain degree, but with every second or third MMO preview we see, we are told that it's going to be a "WoW killer" or the "next big thing" or blah, blah, blah. Then six months later, the game is merging servers and going F2P. (WildStar, anyone?)
Of course people are looking to blast through the content. Almost none of these games offer any real content anyway, at least not at max level. Most folks are used to spending the majority of their time at the level cap because they feel they have earned a break from leveling doldrums, and I agree. Trouble is, when games offer nothing to do at max level, or what they do offer is ridiculously difficult, frustrating, or gated by bull****, is it any wonder why people zerg the content and then leave for the "next big thing?"
"Why would I want to loose a religion upon my people? Religions wreck from within - Empires and individuals alike! It's all the same." - God Emperor of Dune
Unless there are specifics that can be foreseen currently, I don't see many of the OP's issues becoming reality.
Crowfall isn't being designed to be a grindy treadmill that people will need to exploit or what have you to get to the end of an imaginary finish line.
I'm sure people will try to exploit to win, but hopefully ACE is on top of it and abuse/exploits of the system are handled.
Not sure how someone can "rush" to level cap or anything with how they've presented Crowfall currently. Active playing will give a quick "level" to adequate to play within a short amount of time and from there, passive training allows players to expand on their preferences to enhance certain aspects of their character. Unless they can speed up time, can't game that system.
Gear will need to be crafted which will need resources which will need to be transported which will need to be gathered which will need to be found. All of which will happen in an open world with others trying to do the same. Won't be as easy as GW2 or whatever game where some glitch in pricing on a vendor allows players to buy massive amounts of "rare" goods which are then "fixed" screwing over anyone that wasn't quick enough to exploit things.
With everything being time sensitive and the potential for great amounts of loss, really don't see common issues happening. Crowfall won't be perfect and players will do what they do, but doesn't sound like the typical design with the typical issues.
As far as Zerging. Friendly fire, collision, warmth/hunger, limited resources, no strict healers, etc running around in a ball of fury might be slightly harder than before, but it will always exist in any MMO that allows lots of players to play together as intended.
Release Monday, guild plans to raid in x weeks, be geared up or be benched as yo will get 1 shotted.
Release Monday, you enter pvp 2 weeks later but since is a race you get 1 shotted over and over - better rush through levelling nex time!
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Actually unless i am mixing up with some other game,this game is doing exactly what poster number 2 was talking about.Does this game not have automated xp over time,just like Eve?I know it does have other skills that can be increased along the way but i think the base is set in stone over time.
Y es i know of the FFXIV fatigue system,never liked it and yes it still exists even in FFXI where you start out with a maximum of 15 harvests,pretty lame.AA's idea was to simply support cash shop but you don't need to get me started on Cash shops,i think accepting that into our games was the dumbest thing gamer's could do.
As to Eve like xp over time,i cannot stand the idea at all.The idea is bad enough that it alone would keep me from playing a game,yes even if the rest of the game was a 10/10 that is how much i hate that stupid idea.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The root of the problem in this genre are levels and classes.
People don't give a shit about their characters anymore like they did in the early years of MMO gaming. You ask someone about their character and the response you'll get is "I'm a level 80 Bear Shaman". That's not a character, and odds are it will have the same gear, weapons and skills that every other level 80 Bear Shaman has, or it will be working towards those pieces of gear.
The first step to removing the urge to race to end game is to make the "end game" less defined. It's not really there. Get rid of Levels and Classes and replace them with Attributes and Skills. Think Shadowrun/World of Darkness/GURPS instead of D&D. You're constantly gaining power, but it's not a measurable asset. Sure, you may be really good with a Scimitar, but it may not help much against a guy wearing full plate armor.
The second step is to put something in place that makes players not want to endlessly measure their pencil sticks against each other. Make knowledge of another character's attributes, skills and equipment a form of power over them. For example, If I know that you have high Strength and low Charisma, then I know that a certain spell targeting Charisma will work better against you. If I know that you only have the skill to use Heavy Armor effectively, then maybe I bring a crossbow to the fight. Now instead of racing to the top and then measuring epeens, people guard their characters information against other players.
So now you have characters, and instead of endlessly epeening, you're out using them. Instead of someone asking for a tank in chat, they'll say "Hey, we need someone who is handy with Heavy Armor, Shields and a Spear to help us kill a monster." Better yet, they won't be advertising globally at all, they'll be working within their own social structure, call it a guild or whatever, to take on the environment and other players.
The only problem with labor in Archeage is that Trion ruined it to monetize labor potions. They literally f#c%ed up a good thing. While people were complaining about labor during Alpha, the people who were actually PLAYING the game didn't have that much of a problem with it. It was 20 offline/20 online for patrons and a lot of the activities in the game costed less labor. Nobody wants to feel like they're being jobbed around. Trion does a horrendous job at veiling their "f#c% players get money" business model w/ Archeage.
Certain rules HAVE to be in place to protect normal players from the lowest common denominator. Human nature in gaming (not individuals but as a community) is to find the limits of rulesets and BEND them. People will naturally undercut or gouge at auction houses, power level, mutli-box, use alts to create disadvantages for opposition, hug objectives, or race through "content". Things need to be in place to protect the integrity of a games ecosystem.
The issue is you have these "freedom & rights" extremists who don't GAF about the larger picture. They only care about their personal bubble. They have big mouths, and they typically force the hand of developers early failing to realize players by nature will ruin a game until it no longer is viable for anyone.
What makes it worse is you have developers who aren't brave or daring enough to address the above elegantly, half assing, bending every which way trying to please all to monetize, failing, and justifying what the game anarchists preach.
These days, no developer wants to make a daring game and live with the decisions win or fail. They all try to sit on the fence and fail there.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
^^ This.
Why companies cater to the people that have no intention to be there after the first free 30-days, is beyond me.
I like your post, but just want to point out that in Archage the 20/20 regen was only during alpha. From launch patrons got 10/5 and f2p 5/0 from memory. And yes, I am sure that very low regen even for patrons helped fuel the cash shop. Jeez, just thinking about it again makes me angry, such a scam.
yeah im following this game, as a long time DAOC player. I can't wait for it to come out. Let's hope its not a game you can smash your way through as well.