I think the game is great, but I just can´t stick to it long enough. Maybe because I treated it like a single player game. Didn´t join a guild or anything, and could not sell FFXIV to any of my friends.
Maybe Ill give it another spin soon.
There are a couple of responses like this in this thread but I will reply to yours because it seems you understand the core mechanics of the game but just haven't really adopted them yet. Group Play.
If you want to try and play this game the way you play every other modern MMO you'll probably be disappointed. This is a GROUP oriented game. if you play it like Mr. Solo lolz, your going to be let down.
If you refuse to play this game with grouping in mind then don't bother playing it, go play pretty much any other solo friendly MMO out there, which is pretty much all of them.
This game is about running the same dungeons over and over again with groups of people and communicating with them, that's the game. Its not about solo leveling to max level and doing your dailies.
Fixed that for you.
That's part of why I sub and un sub so many times lol.
So you don't like raiding, got it.
Nothing to do with raiding, i love raiding and dungeons.
The fact that what they call "raiding" is exactly the same every time, no variation in where mobs are or how mobs behave and the boss fights are stupidly orchestrated down to the second and if you don't do something exactly like the developer wanted it you instant wipe. That is just not what i call raiding. It's called memorizing and it is ZERO challenge. It's boring and easy mode. A 10 year old can memorize these fights and win them.
The same is true for the combat. Memorize your DPS rotation since pretty much everyone is a generic DPS even Black Mage that kills the fire god Ifrit with Fire spells. It's hilarious how bad this game is.
Now couple all that with the fact that you will be running the same dungeons over and over again every update just to get "New token of the month" for 1 whole new set of armor with no sidegrades just STATS+3 is hilarious. How anyone can take this game serious is beyond my understanding.
You claim to like raiding, then hate on every single mechanic which has been a part of raiding since it started in Everquest. Okay, then.
Memorization is important, yes. But improvisation and the ability to adapt to changing circumstances is also incredibly important. What do you do if a healer starts having trouble? Do you just give up, wipe, and start over? Or do you think on your feet and have a DPS with healing abilities pick up some of the slack? Offtank dies, oh noes! WIPE! Or perhaps a rogue can pop some cool-downs and evasion tank for a minute while the offtank is resurrected and healed up.
Those are just very general examples, but there are plenty of times where memorization simply won't help you. A bad raider relies solely on memorization; a good raider knows the fight, knows what his class is capable of, and knows what his fellow raiders' classes are capable of. I've seen good groups pull a victory from the jaws of defeat simply because they knew how to adapt to less than optimal conditions.
If you don't understand that, then I sure as hell don't want you in my raid group.
It's absolutely hilarious how poorly thought out your opinion is. I'm guessing the extent of your raiding experience is a few LFR runs in WoW.
You're an idiot and obviously never played Everquest or any MMO pre 2003. What you are describing is Raiding in MMOs post WoW. Most high end encounters in MMOs pre 2003 had many more random elements and fighting the same enemy 20 times you might only see him use a specific move set 4 of those times. Guilds used to have their own unique ways of taking down HNMs and Raid bosses that even though they might be very different from the guild standing next to them fight for the claim, still got the job done in an efficient manner. There is no "oh the off tank died but the rogue blew a cooldown and saved the day" type of scenario in FFXIV (I like the game and have been subbed even before the relaunch of ARR because I wanted to see and believed in the vision Yoshi P had for the game). There are insta wipe mechanics based on team jump rope type requirements that give no room for independent thought or problem solving or even reacting to adversity. Adversity in FFXIV is; BOOM ADVERSITY; BOOM WIPE. That shit is lame.
It's funny that you say his only MMO experience must be WoW because from the way you describe the history of raiding in MMOs it's clear that you never played anything that came before that game.
I've heard some whoppers in my life, this one by far takes the cake. You talk about his MMO experience but it sounds like you have none at all. If you even believe a grain of what you typed.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
I think the game is great, but I just can´t stick to it long enough. Maybe because I treated it like a single player game. Didn´t join a guild or anything, and could not sell FFXIV to any of my friends.
Maybe Ill give it another spin soon.
There are a couple of responses like this in this thread but I will reply to yours because it seems you understand the core mechanics of the game but just haven't really adopted them yet. Group Play.
If you want to try and play this game the way you play every other modern MMO you'll probably be disappointed. This is a GROUP oriented game. if you play it like Mr. Solo lolz, your going to be let down.
If you refuse to play this game with grouping in mind then don't bother playing it, go play pretty much any other solo friendly MMO out there, which is pretty much all of them.
This game is about running the same dungeons over and over again with groups of people and communicating with them, that's the game. Its not about solo leveling to max level and doing your dailies.
Fixed that for you.
That's part of why I sub and un sub so many times lol.
So you don't like raiding, got it.
Nothing to do with raiding, i love raiding and dungeons.
The fact that what they call "raiding" is exactly the same every time, no variation in where mobs are or how mobs behave and the boss fights are stupidly orchestrated down to the second and if you don't do something exactly like the developer wanted it you instant wipe. That is just not what i call raiding. It's called memorizing and it is ZERO challenge. It's boring and easy mode. A 10 year old can memorize these fights and win them.
The same is true for the combat. Memorize your DPS rotation since pretty much everyone is a generic DPS even Black Mage that kills the fire god Ifrit with Fire spells. It's hilarious how bad this game is.
Now couple all that with the fact that you will be running the same dungeons over and over again every update just to get "New token of the month" for 1 whole new set of armor with no sidegrades just STATS+3 is hilarious. How anyone can take this game serious is beyond my understanding.
You claim to like raiding, then hate on every single mechanic which has been a part of raiding since it started in Everquest. Okay, then.
Memorization is important, yes. But improvisation and the ability to adapt to changing circumstances is also incredibly important. What do you do if a healer starts having trouble? Do you just give up, wipe, and start over? Or do you think on your feet and have a DPS with healing abilities pick up some of the slack? Offtank dies, oh noes! WIPE! Or perhaps a rogue can pop some cool-downs and evasion tank for a minute while the offtank is resurrected and healed up.
Those are just very general examples, but there are plenty of times where memorization simply won't help you. A bad raider relies solely on memorization; a good raider knows the fight, knows what his class is capable of, and knows what his fellow raiders' classes are capable of. I've seen good groups pull a victory from the jaws of defeat simply because they knew how to adapt to less than optimal conditions.
If you don't understand that, then I sure as hell don't want you in my raid group.
It's absolutely hilarious how poorly thought out your opinion is. I'm guessing the extent of your raiding experience is a few LFR runs in WoW.
You're an idiot and obviously never played Everquest or any MMO pre 2003. What you are describing is Raiding in MMOs post WoW. Most high end encounters in MMOs pre 2003 had many more random elements and fighting the same enemy 20 times you might only see him use a specific move set 4 of those times. Guilds used to have their own unique ways of taking down HNMs and Raid bosses that even though they might be very different from the guild standing next to them fight for the claim, still got the job done in an efficient manner. There is no "oh the off tank died but the rogue blew a cooldown and saved the day" type of scenario in FFXIV (I like the game and have been subbed even before the relaunch of ARR because I wanted to see and believed in the vision Yoshi P had for the game). There are insta wipe mechanics based on team jump rope type requirements that give no room for independent thought or problem solving or even reacting to adversity. Adversity in FFXIV is; BOOM ADVERSITY; BOOM WIPE. That shit is lame.
It's funny that you say his only MMO experience must be WoW because from the way you describe the history of raiding in MMOs it's clear that you never played anything that came before that game.
I think the main reason some people do not like FFXIV's form raiding really comes down to the classes and not so much mob patterns. The classes are really linear and have no real form of variation to them. Yes, you get to do every class in game but typically, the classes are built really for one thing which can get old fast. BLM/SMN/BRD ranged dps. BRD may be really upsetting especially if they played other games with BRD in them like FFXI/Rift/Aion, since brd usually has some form of healing component to them, which is not the case in XIV. SMN/BLM were way way way more versatile in XI than they are in XIV since they could do proper off-healing and add rez (smn still can) when needed. So in that respect, XIV doesn't offer really a lot to someone really invested in various MMOs for a long period of time or who has just came from XI. But it still does quite a few things right and many people do not realize that the game is still very young mmo wise. There's no telling how mechanics will really play out class wise in Heavensward at 60. They could triple hp/dmg/etc, never know. The only real problem I have with this game is the "haste" system which was done very poorly. Never have I played a game where haste did more harm than good or just did nothing at all really. Stat wise, WoW beats this game by a country mile sadly. Skill speed in particular was not well thought out and ends up being more of a negative state than a beneficial one to a physical dps. Yet you have something like mnk and nin where skill speed is supposedly one of there major stats. Like really any other game with haste and a resource system (energy/stamina/focus/etc) "haste" should contribute to resource recovery speed. Not doing it this way only makes SE look lazy imo.
Originally posted by drivendawn I'm done with this site no one can have a decent conversation about this game.
And thats the sites fault? O_o
No, just the straw that broke the camel's back for me here.
You are more than welcome to join all the Yoshi P leg humping followers on the official forums if these don't suit you. There you can converse with the many that are incapable of any conversation of their own, rather borrowed phrases and poster statements all the while blindly revering Yoshi P as the second coming of christ. As long as you post here you need to understand there are many of those here that look past shiny graphics and can spot shallow and hollow MMOS from a mile away because FFXIV didn't pop their MMO cherry. Rather they got to enjoy MMOs from a time where there was diversity and variation when it came to goals/progression/community/e.t.c. rather than the minimalist approach of today's MMOS.
Originally posted by drivendawn I'm done with this site no one can have a decent conversation about this game.
And thats the sites fault? O_o
No, just the straw that broke the camel's back for me here.
You are more than welcome to join all the Yoshi P leg humping followers on the official forums if these don't suit you. There you can converse with the many that are incapable of any conversation of their own, rather borrowed phrases and poster statements all the while blindly revering Yoshi P as the second coming of christ. As long as you post here you need to understand there are many of those here that look past shiny graphics and can spot shallow and hollow MMOS from a mile away because FFXIV didn't pop their MMO cherry. Rather they got to enjoy MMOs from a time where there was diversity and variation when it came to goals/progression/community/e.t.c. rather than the minimalist approach of today's MMOS.
Issue with the official forums is the moderation and the fact the forums over there are meant to promote the game, rather than discuss the game. Here at least we are free to "release the rage of the elder gods" on bad games pretending to be the best thing in the world without a ban hammer coming down. There's always those fringe cases where people really lose it and someone has to step in, but taking critcism in stride is quickly becoming a lost virtue.
I was on board with Yoshi P during the alpha as the early game seemed very promising. It was the late game where all the troubles ended up lurking: token grinding, raids that require a business like obligation to raid hours to complete, endless repeating dungeon runs on rails, and a limp story that felt like over half of it was cheesed together from a five year old thanks to giving voice to Hydelen or however you spell it and killing any sense of mystery about the light.
However, there is still plenty to like about the game that makes it worth playing at least a bit. The landscape and artwork is gorgeous, the side questing is better thought out, and there's almost no reason to use the guild leve and guild hest systems if someone doesn't like repetition early on. It also has a very accessible main story minus the challenge modes, which is where all the grumbling comes in. I'd say if they had a way to have your own npc party and make the grouping with others optional, the game would be excellent. The problem with MMORPGs is they assume everyone is going group up and play nice when they are all out of sync with each other in experience and skill.
I don't envy Yoshida's position. He was forced to make design decisions favoring a hasty delivery of a finished product over longevity. It normally takes five years to complete a game of this size, but he completed it in just two years. He didn't just have his design team play WoW and Guild Wars 2 to give them an idea of how MMORPGs played, but to give them an idea of what they needed to replicate. Even the server backend design choices favored speed of implementation over efficiency. Like backing up server data every 15 seconds in the case of a server crash. A very robust (and simple to implement) strategy indeed, but extremely taxing on the system nonetheless.
I keep my hopes up that FFXIV:ARR will eventually get all the shine it needs to equal its source material, but those looking for solutions to our current MMORPG plights will need to look to other developers. I'm fairly certain this isn't the game that Yoshida had in mind, but it will be another year or two before I can make an honest assessment of FFXIV:ARR.
Although WoW is considered the MMORPG "King" by population standards, (Even though their numbers are dropping) I feel this the first time in a while that an MMORPG has been keeping a taking a lot of WoW's player base. A lot of games have been said to be "WoW Killers" and though FFXIV doesn't put them out that way, I do feel that it's doing the best job in becoming the next most populated new-ish MMORPG out there. Good for them.
Comments
And thats the sites fault? O_o
I've heard some whoppers in my life, this one by far takes the cake. You talk about his MMO experience but it sounds like you have none at all. If you even believe a grain of what you typed.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
wtf are you smoking lol xD
You are more than welcome to join all the Yoshi P leg humping followers on the official forums if these don't suit you. There you can converse with the many that are incapable of any conversation of their own, rather borrowed phrases and poster statements all the while blindly revering Yoshi P as the second coming of christ. As long as you post here you need to understand there are many of those here that look past shiny graphics and can spot shallow and hollow MMOS from a mile away because FFXIV didn't pop their MMO cherry. Rather they got to enjoy MMOs from a time where there was diversity and variation when it came to goals/progression/community/e.t.c. rather than the minimalist approach of today's MMOS.
Issue with the official forums is the moderation and the fact the forums over there are meant to promote the game, rather than discuss the game. Here at least we are free to "release the rage of the elder gods" on bad games pretending to be the best thing in the world without a ban hammer coming down. There's always those fringe cases where people really lose it and someone has to step in, but taking critcism in stride is quickly becoming a lost virtue.
I was on board with Yoshi P during the alpha as the early game seemed very promising. It was the late game where all the troubles ended up lurking: token grinding, raids that require a business like obligation to raid hours to complete, endless repeating dungeon runs on rails, and a limp story that felt like over half of it was cheesed together from a five year old thanks to giving voice to Hydelen or however you spell it and killing any sense of mystery about the light.
However, there is still plenty to like about the game that makes it worth playing at least a bit. The landscape and artwork is gorgeous, the side questing is better thought out, and there's almost no reason to use the guild leve and guild hest systems if someone doesn't like repetition early on. It also has a very accessible main story minus the challenge modes, which is where all the grumbling comes in. I'd say if they had a way to have your own npc party and make the grouping with others optional, the game would be excellent. The problem with MMORPGs is they assume everyone is going group up and play nice when they are all out of sync with each other in experience and skill.
I don't envy Yoshida's position. He was forced to make design decisions favoring a hasty delivery of a finished product over longevity. It normally takes five years to complete a game of this size, but he completed it in just two years. He didn't just have his design team play WoW and Guild Wars 2 to give them an idea of how MMORPGs played, but to give them an idea of what they needed to replicate. Even the server backend design choices favored speed of implementation over efficiency. Like backing up server data every 15 seconds in the case of a server crash. A very robust (and simple to implement) strategy indeed, but extremely taxing on the system nonetheless.
I keep my hopes up that FFXIV:ARR will eventually get all the shine it needs to equal its source material, but those looking for solutions to our current MMORPG plights will need to look to other developers. I'm fairly certain this isn't the game that Yoshida had in mind, but it will be another year or two before I can make an honest assessment of FFXIV:ARR.