Oh, and of course any time would be a great time for a great MMO to arrive.
Dont blame me if I'm not holding my breath.
I never viewed WoW as "great". It was apparently pretty good in the beginning, but back then I was putt off by the comic style graphics, and soon later it became a joke, so easy even preteens could play it.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
...and soon later it became a joke, so easy even preteens could play it.
Is chess a joke? It's so easy preteens can play it. They won't get far (just as they won't get far in WOW) but they can play it.
Pretty sure pre-teens will hit end-game with WOW no problem. Saw it when I tried vanilla WOW (one reason I disliked it).
Chess is probably 1000x more complex then WOW. WOW is a button masher, chess takes actual thought when playing against a good opponent (of your choice might I add).
That chess analogy fails. I don't know why people keep saying it. lol.
Actually in all honesty what we need is an end to the internet all together.
Life was way better before the internet, people were more creative, healthier, more social.
Remember what it was like going out with a group of friends to catch a movie then all hit a Denny's together for coffee and an all night gathering just talking and laughing and being together?
Or putt putt, or go carts, or just hanging out on the beach. Hell even if you were a gamer, remember how much fun it was going to the game shop to play Magic or with all your friends, costuming up for the Friday night D&D games.
Back then I had 100 friends real friends, people who would do anything for me and did.
Now I have 1000 friends , 2000 friends, 10000 friends and not one would even notice if I vanished from the face of the earth.
We are doing it so wrong people and it just gets more wrong every day.
Now we are giving smart phones and ipads to 6 year olds, letting the playstation or xbox raise them.
Pretty sure pre-teens will hit end-game with WOW no problem. Saw it when I tried vanilla WOW (one reason I disliked it).
Chess is probably 1000x more complex then WOW. WOW is a button masher, chess takes actual thought when playing against a good opponent (of your choice might I add).
Right, that is possible. Where do you decide to draw your arbitrary line where you hang your "cool kids only beyond this point!" sign? Bad players can enjoy either game, but they are going to hit a skill wall at some point where additional skill is required to advance.
It's complete insanity to suggest that unskilled players should only be able to enjoy the first hour of a 2,000+ hour game. Designing a game that only 1% of your playerbase will enjoy is a sure-fire way to go out of business.
So you should drop the idea that unskilled players shouldn't be able to enjoy these games. It's unreasonable.
Instead, you should embrace the idea that more games should offer CoH-style difficulty controls, so that they provide all players with their personal sweet spot of challenge. The unskilled will leave it low and enjoy the game, and that's fine, and the skilled will keep it high and get better rewards, and that's fine.
But it's completely unworkable to imply that unskilled players shouldn't be able to have fun in a game.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
WoW's just getting started. Movie coming out. Look how long Zelda and Mario have been around. You already know an expansion or huge patch will release around the time the movie is released. They will and have been updating every aspect of the game slowly, but surely. Third WoW movie will probably come out with Warcraft 4, and WoW on virtual reality...
...and soon later it became a joke, so easy even preteens could play it.
Is chess a joke? It's so easy preteens can play it. They won't get far (just as they won't get far in WOW) but they can play it.
My son downed Ragnaros along with our guild when he was 12. By 14 he was raiding the 4 horseman with a high end guild and I had long since left the scene.
WOW really wasn't that hard, you just needed to have a lot of time to devote to it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There are way too many mmorpgs on the market right now. Instead of asking for more right away, its time for all the low quality mmorpgs to start dying out. When there is only a handful of profitable ones left, then we could use new and fresh mmorpg to change things around.
Unfortunately, thats probably not going to happen. Devs still keep flooding the market with low quality mmorpgs because making quick, short term money is the trend... again, unfortunately.
+1 sad but true.
Not sure ZOS didn't decide to sacrifice ESO for a nice pay off from selling the B2P consul version and destroying their subscription income. Depends I guess on how much players are will to pay for cosmetic armor and pets/mounts as they certainly don't seem to be in a rush to actually add any new content. (for better or worse, as rushing can make a worthless content addition)
...and soon later it became a joke, so easy even preteens could play it.
Is chess a joke? It's so easy preteens can play it. They won't get far (just as they won't get far in WOW) but they can play it.
My son downed Ragnaros along with our guild when he was 12. By 14 he was raiding the 4 horseman with a high end guild and I had long since left the scene.
WOW really wasn't that hard, you just needed to have a lot of time to devote to it.
Oh, and of course any time would be a great time for a great MMO to arrive.
Dont blame me if I'm not holding my breath.
I never viewed WoW as "great". It was apparently pretty good in the beginning, but back then I was putt off by the comic style graphics, and soon later it became a joke, so easy even preteens could play it.
WoW came out facing maybe 3-4 real other MMORPG competitors. Now a fays with literally 100's of MMORPG's to choose from and try, and many of them for free. (many players will willing spend their time playing a less fun game that's free, then play a much better game if they have to pay money for it) SO there will never be another WoW experience unless 96% of all current MMO's die with no replacements which I don't see happening anytime soon. Developers instead of trying to make a deep and rewarding game that cost money are seemingly trying to find ways to make the cheapest, highest money return on investment game that will last a month or 2. Why make just a little money selling a steak to a few when you can make a ton of money selling poorly cooked greasy hamburgers to many? (Call it the McDonalds principle)
Oh, and of course any time would be a great time for a great MMO to arrive.
Dont blame me if I'm not holding my breath.
I never viewed WoW as "great". It was apparently pretty good in the beginning, but back then I was putt off by the comic style graphics, and soon later it became a joke, so easy even preteens could play it.
WoW came out facing maybe 3-4 real other MMORPG competitors. Now a fays with literally 100's of MMORPG's to choose from and try, and many of them for free. (many players will willing spend their time playing a less fun game that's free, then play a much better game if they have to pay money for it) SO there will never be another WoW experience unless 96% of all current MMO's die with no replacements which I don't see happening anytime soon. Developers instead of trying to make a deep and rewarding game that cost money are seemingly trying to find ways to make the cheapest, highest money return on investment game that will last a month or 2. Why make just a little money selling a steak to a few when you can make a ton of money selling poorly cooked greasy hamburgers to many? (Call it the McDonalds principle)
There are not hundreds of MMORPGs. There are hundreds of games on this sites list, but most of them are not MMORPGs: MMOs, RPGs, MOBAs etc but not MMORPGs. This is a myth.
But you are right when WoW was released there were few competitors, but the main thing that WoW did was bring in a huge new audience to the genre. Blizzard increased the size of the MMORPG market tenfold and kept nearly all of that increase for themselves. Over time the genre has continued to grow and Blizzard is not as dominant as it was but it is still the 900 pound gorillla in then room.
We are now seeing a decline in the MMORPG genre as the other types of online games grow soaking up MMORPG players as they do so. But I hope that at least a couple of companies out there are working on new MMORPGs that may halt or even reverse this decline.
My son downed Ragnaros along with our guild when he was 12. By 14 he was raiding the 4 horseman with a high end guild and I had long since left the scene.
WOW really wasn't that hard, you just needed to have a lot of time to devote to it.
Right, I'm not saying no children attain mastery. Bobby Fisher was amazing at chess, I hear.
Children are actually amazing at mastering skills that they're interested in (and even those they aren't, if they're forced to repeatedly practice the skill.) It's just that they often lack the focus to just stick with one thing and really achieve mastery of it. My generalization that pre-teens aren't mastering these games is only a generalization and not true of all children.
Your son would've achieved similar mastery of chess if he was as enthusiastic about it and put the same number of hours into it.
Granted it's hard for people to split apart how the hours add up. You get two things from time investment in WOW -- vertical progression and gradual mastery of the game -- while you only get gradual mastery in chess (because it's not an RPG.)
While WOW isn't as deep as chess, it is still quite deep and rewards a lot of mastery (as anyone who's ever played with the noobs there can attest.) The difference between a low and high-skilled player is pretty significant and a lot of that comes from the layering of deep rotations and encounter design (in a thread a while back I posed the warlock rotation as the rotation to beat with evidence (in the form of a guide for another game) and the only class in all of MMORPGs that sounded like it was deeper was FFXIV's Lancer. This means not only is WOW not one of the shallower MMORPGs, but it's actually one of the deeper ones.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Pretty sure pre-teens will hit end-game with WOW no problem. Saw it when I tried vanilla WOW (one reason I disliked it).
Chess is probably 1000x more complex then WOW. WOW is a button masher, chess takes actual thought when playing against a good opponent (of your choice might I add).
Right, that is possible. Where do you decide to draw your arbitrary line where you hang your "cool kids only beyond this point!" sign? Bad players can enjoy either game, but they are going to hit a skill wall at some point where additional skill is required to advance.
It's complete insanity to suggest that unskilled players should only be able to enjoy the first hour of a 2,000+ hour game. Designing a game that only 1% of your playerbase will enjoy is a sure-fire way to go out of business.
So you should drop the idea that unskilled players shouldn't be able to enjoy these games. It's unreasonable.
Instead, you should embrace the idea that more games should offer CoH-style difficulty controls, so that they provide all players with their personal sweet spot of challenge. The unskilled will leave it low and enjoy the game, and that's fine, and the skilled will keep it high and get better rewards, and that's fine.
But it's completely unworkable to imply that unskilled players shouldn't be able to have fun in a game.
CoH did it right but it wasn't a game for those who need to epeen.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
As thread states this is a great time for someone else to repeat what WOW did ...
Who's the next great "Fan Favorite" game maker?
Bioware had some fan cred, which they squandered. Bethesda...could have done better, given the unreal fan worship they had to work with. In fact, most of the "AAA" producers have already taken swings, and quite a few of them have flailed at a pitch that was low and outside.
I don't see it happening. Gamers seem to be learning (finally?) that company's reputation actually has little or nothing to do with its future success. Might actually have a negative correlation, do companies only have a handful of good titles in them before they (inevitably) get gobbled up by their own greed?
The "AAA" MMO expectation is aging as quickly as the gamers who have it.
There are way too many mmorpgs on the market right now. Instead of asking for more right away, its time for all the low quality mmorpgs to start dying out. When there is only a handful of profitable ones left, then we could use new and fresh mmorpg to change things around.
Unfortunately, thats probably not going to happen. Devs still keep flooding the market with low quality mmorpgs because making quick, short term money is the trend... again, unfortunately.
Agree there are too many but disagree that more are being made. A lot of MMO's will plateau off and some will even lose players but there are more indie games being made that cater to the low information, candy crush/facebbook crowd then ever before and even less MMO's then ever. There certainly isn't a Triple-A MMO on the docket right now and that's unheard of in the short history of this genre. Couple this with the ever increase of MOBA and Indie games we are on the cusp of a new generation of gamers.
Of course this doesn't mean a new MMO is going to come but give it time and the market should support one. Only thing I ask for is for less PvP centric and WoW clone crap to get made because god knows we got enough of them, sadly that is the only thing that is getting made any more.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Ark may turn out great, and will likely find it's niche that enjoys it, but I doubt it will have the appeal a la WOW which takes the genre by storm and defines it for 10 years such WOW did and what the OP is looking for.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This new game would need to have high budget (at least 100 mil.$). Anything less would just not suffice to tick all the boxes one quality MMO requires.
Famous IP is also required (Star Wars, Star Trek, Fallout, GTA), or it has to be produced by a famous studio (Blizzard, Bethesda, Rockstar, Bungie, Naughty Dog). Unknown IP made by unknown studio would not succeed (see Wildstar).
It would have to be B2P, but with a flexibility to add paid content over time (ESO, Destiny). P2P model is dead and F2P AAA title is unheard of.
Of some other things, combat would have to be action(y), console version should be available, more focus on small teams and co-op etc.
I think Destiny had the best chance if it wasn't for Bungie/Activision corporate greed. ESO is on the right track, but it's still a bit too rough around the edges. The Division has the potential, but this is Ubisoft product we are talking about. If SWTOR gets a proper reboot (engine and combat overhaul + console launch), it could come out on top using the Star Wars craze expected in late 2015.
Comments
a new Asheron's Call would be epic
so would a rebrand design of one of the deepest games made, Horizons/Istaria (there was a game with ideas)
Nobody can seem to make anything new anymore
Does the fact that I buy a WOW token every month and have for the last 3 months make me a subscriber, or am I now considered one of the lost subs
Oh, and of course any time would be a great time for a great MMO to arrive.
Dont blame me if I'm not holding my breath.
I never viewed WoW as "great". It was apparently pretty good in the beginning, but back then I was putt off by the comic style graphics, and soon later it became a joke, so easy even preteens could play it.
Is chess a joke? It's so easy preteens can play it. They won't get far (just as they won't get far in WOW) but they can play it.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I totally agree with this statement.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
That chess analogy fails. I don't know why people keep saying it. lol.
Actually in all honesty what we need is an end to the internet all together.
Life was way better before the internet, people were more creative, healthier, more social.
Remember what it was like going out with a group of friends to catch a movie then all hit a Denny's together for coffee and an all night gathering just talking and laughing and being together?
Or putt putt, or go carts, or just hanging out on the beach. Hell even if you were a gamer, remember how much fun it was going to the game shop to play Magic or with all your friends, costuming up for the Friday night D&D games.
Back then I had 100 friends real friends, people who would do anything for me and did.
Now I have 1000 friends , 2000 friends, 10000 friends and not one would even notice if I vanished from the face of the earth.
We are doing it so wrong people and it just gets more wrong every day.
Now we are giving smart phones and ipads to 6 year olds, letting the playstation or xbox raise them.
Right, that is possible. Where do you decide to draw your arbitrary line where you hang your "cool kids only beyond this point!" sign? Bad players can enjoy either game, but they are going to hit a skill wall at some point where additional skill is required to advance.
It's complete insanity to suggest that unskilled players should only be able to enjoy the first hour of a 2,000+ hour game. Designing a game that only 1% of your playerbase will enjoy is a sure-fire way to go out of business.
So you should drop the idea that unskilled players shouldn't be able to enjoy these games. It's unreasonable.
Instead, you should embrace the idea that more games should offer CoH-style difficulty controls, so that they provide all players with their personal sweet spot of challenge. The unskilled will leave it low and enjoy the game, and that's fine, and the skilled will keep it high and get better rewards, and that's fine.
But it's completely unworkable to imply that unskilled players shouldn't be able to have fun in a game.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
My son downed Ragnaros along with our guild when he was 12. By 14 he was raiding the 4 horseman with a high end guild and I had long since left the scene.
WOW really wasn't that hard, you just needed to have a lot of time to devote to it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
+1 sad but true.
Not sure ZOS didn't decide to sacrifice ESO for a nice pay off from selling the B2P consul version and destroying their subscription income. Depends I guess on how much players are will to pay for cosmetic armor and pets/mounts as they certainly don't seem to be in a rush to actually add any new content. (for better or worse, as rushing can make a worthless content addition)
+1 agreed
WoW came out facing maybe 3-4 real other MMORPG competitors. Now a fays with literally 100's of MMORPG's to choose from and try, and many of them for free. (many players will willing spend their time playing a less fun game that's free, then play a much better game if they have to pay money for it) SO there will never be another WoW experience unless 96% of all current MMO's die with no replacements which I don't see happening anytime soon. Developers instead of trying to make a deep and rewarding game that cost money are seemingly trying to find ways to make the cheapest, highest money return on investment game that will last a month or 2. Why make just a little money selling a steak to a few when you can make a ton of money selling poorly cooked greasy hamburgers to many? (Call it the McDonalds principle)
There are not hundreds of MMORPGs. There are hundreds of games on this sites list, but most of them are not MMORPGs: MMOs, RPGs, MOBAs etc but not MMORPGs. This is a myth.
But you are right when WoW was released there were few competitors, but the main thing that WoW did was bring in a huge new audience to the genre. Blizzard increased the size of the MMORPG market tenfold and kept nearly all of that increase for themselves. Over time the genre has continued to grow and Blizzard is not as dominant as it was but it is still the 900 pound gorillla in then room.
We are now seeing a decline in the MMORPG genre as the other types of online games grow soaking up MMORPG players as they do so. But I hope that at least a couple of companies out there are working on new MMORPGs that may halt or even reverse this decline.
This post on official forum say it all
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/18300180427?page=1
Right, I'm not saying no children attain mastery. Bobby Fisher was amazing at chess, I hear.
Children are actually amazing at mastering skills that they're interested in (and even those they aren't, if they're forced to repeatedly practice the skill.) It's just that they often lack the focus to just stick with one thing and really achieve mastery of it. My generalization that pre-teens aren't mastering these games is only a generalization and not true of all children.
Your son would've achieved similar mastery of chess if he was as enthusiastic about it and put the same number of hours into it.
Granted it's hard for people to split apart how the hours add up. You get two things from time investment in WOW -- vertical progression and gradual mastery of the game -- while you only get gradual mastery in chess (because it's not an RPG.)
While WOW isn't as deep as chess, it is still quite deep and rewards a lot of mastery (as anyone who's ever played with the noobs there can attest.) The difference between a low and high-skilled player is pretty significant and a lot of that comes from the layering of deep rotations and encounter design (in a thread a while back I posed the warlock rotation as the rotation to beat with evidence (in the form of a guide for another game) and the only class in all of MMORPGs that sounded like it was deeper was FFXIV's Lancer. This means not only is WOW not one of the shallower MMORPGs, but it's actually one of the deeper ones.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
CoH did it right but it wasn't a game for those who need to epeen.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Who's the next great "Fan Favorite" game maker?
Bioware had some fan cred, which they squandered. Bethesda...could have done better, given the unreal fan worship they had to work with. In fact, most of the "AAA" producers have already taken swings, and quite a few of them have flailed at a pitch that was low and outside.
I don't see it happening. Gamers seem to be learning (finally?) that company's reputation actually has little or nothing to do with its future success. Might actually have a negative correlation, do companies only have a handful of good titles in them before they (inevitably) get gobbled up by their own greed?
The "AAA" MMO expectation is aging as quickly as the gamers who have it.
Agree there are too many but disagree that more are being made. A lot of MMO's will plateau off and some will even lose players but there are more indie games being made that cater to the low information, candy crush/facebbook crowd then ever before and even less MMO's then ever. There certainly isn't a Triple-A MMO on the docket right now and that's unheard of in the short history of this genre. Couple this with the ever increase of MOBA and Indie games we are on the cusp of a new generation of gamers.
Of course this doesn't mean a new MMO is going to come but give it time and the market should support one. Only thing I ask for is for less PvP centric and WoW clone crap to get made because god knows we got enough of them, sadly that is the only thing that is getting made any more.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
An unrelated problem.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Ark: Survival Evolved ;-)
Ark may turn out great, and will likely find it's niche that enjoys it, but I doubt it will have the appeal a la WOW which takes the genre by storm and defines it for 10 years such WOW did and what the OP is looking for.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This new game would need to have high budget (at least 100 mil.$). Anything less would just not suffice to tick all the boxes one quality MMO requires.
Famous IP is also required (Star Wars, Star Trek, Fallout, GTA), or it has to be produced by a famous studio (Blizzard, Bethesda, Rockstar, Bungie, Naughty Dog). Unknown IP made by unknown studio would not succeed (see Wildstar).
It would have to be B2P, but with a flexibility to add paid content over time (ESO, Destiny). P2P model is dead and F2P AAA title is unheard of.
Of some other things, combat would have to be action(y), console version should be available, more focus on small teams and co-op etc.
I think Destiny had the best chance if it wasn't for Bungie/Activision corporate greed. ESO is on the right track, but it's still a bit too rough around the edges. The Division has the potential, but this is Ubisoft product we are talking about. If SWTOR gets a proper reboot (engine and combat overhaul + console launch), it could come out on top using the Star Wars craze expected in late 2015.
Who knows.