This "he's just the messenger" crap went out the window when Derek Smart put a million dollar bounty on Chris Robert's head. No more of that nonsense please. This has been a vicious attack campaign against his chosen target, and there is nothing else to say on that account. Anyone who claims that this is all in good faith and on the up and up looks quite the fool at this point.
This is Derek Smart's last big gamble before final irrelevance. He may think he has nothing to lose but after this slimy, underhanded behavior he will be done. This anti-social behavior will not slip by people anymore, and it will be his final ruin.
I agree, if anything he is saying is true then all he would have to do is let RSI hang themselves, he did get a refund after all. Seems he has a personal vendetta for whatever reason.
That has crossed my mind as well. Yet I always end up thinking of the counter, he could argue under the pretense that he really cares that people might still fund a scam so he wants it to end now.... Yet that's where all of this other stuff kicks in, ending in a final thought of would Smart really care about that?
It would simply be great to be able to say to myself, this is a guy crusading for all of us, he's stepping in front of the big bad to protect what is left of integrity in the gaming business... He's made that very hard to do...
There's also well documented and existing content on the Internet that will make you question his 'crusade' for backers. Then there's the recent things that have come to light about what appears to be a grudge he has towards Chris Roberts from back 25 years ago.
I mean, based upon words Derek Smart has used himself, it sounds like he's burning up inside over the fact that Chris Roberts has $85 mil to developg a vision that Derek Smart seems to think he owns all rights to developing, and no one else.
This "he's just the messenger" crap went out the window when Derek Smart put a million dollar bounty on Chris Robert's head. No more of that nonsense please. This has been a vicious attack campaign against his chosen target, and there is nothing else to say on that account. Anyone who claims that this is all in good faith and on the up and up looks quite the fool at this point.
This is Derek Smart's last big gamble before final irrelevance. He may think he has nothing to lose but after this slimy, underhanded behavior he will be done. This anti-social behavior will not slip by people anymore, and it will be his final ruin.
I agree, if anything he is saying is true then all he would have to do is let RSI hang themselves, he did get a refund after all. Seems he has a personal vendetta for whatever reason.
That has crossed my mind as well. Yet I always end up thinking of the counter, he could argue under the pretense that he really cares that people might still fund a scam so he wants it to end now.... Yet that's where all of this other stuff kicks in, ending in a final thought of would Smart really care about that?
It would simply be great to be able to say to myself, this is a guy crusading for all of us, he's stepping in front of the big bad to protect what is left of integrity in the gaming business... He's made that very hard to do...
I believe there is an ulterior motive at play here under the guise of 'I care that people might be getting scammed'. And I can honestly say I don't give two sh*ts about SC, hence why I never bothered to fund them when friends of mine did. But just looking at the tactics DS is using, the threats and the posturing, the man is up to something more than 'getting facts for the people'.
If backers truly want accountability and transparency on all things CIG/SC, that's great and should be encouraged. However, following this mans crusade might not be the wisest of decisions as it seems to be tainted with personal gain in mind.
Many bad journeys began with the words of a passionate messenger.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I am going to make a single post to say that, once the mainstream media who have informed me that they are doing their investigations, start doing their own reporting, these people will - hopefully - stop making this about me.
The fact is this - and I want all of you to remember this - I will be 100% vindicated when the truth comes out. No question about it.
And when that happens, we can all sit back and ponder what has gone on here, and why people have found it necessary (race, jealousy, what?) to attack me, while trying to completely deflect from the questions being asked.
It is only a matter of time. I am right. And I will be vindicated.
You think the White Knights are pissed now? Wait till my NY Times ad article goes up. Then we'll see.
Looking forward to reading it Mr. Smart
It is very simple. They try to discredit the messenger so as to drown the message.
What "message:? All I see are a lot of unwarranted accusations, baseless demands, and the howling of the publicity seeking.
*Try* to discredit?? You do realize that this is Derek Smart? The man tends to make an art form of discrediting himself, when ever he opens his mouth. Anyone who does even some basic research into his past antics knows that.
I don't care if Mr. Smart is the devil reincarnate. His message is Accountability and Transparency.
Derek Smart is a combative industry has-been with no credibility / That doesn't mean he's not right.
Now that I have the obligatory argument in every Smart/SC thread out of the way...
I think the most interesting thing here is the potential evolution of crowdfunding.
Frequently, a Video Game Publisher will also pay for the cost of making a game. Because the publisher is financing the development, it usually installs some producers or project managers to monitor the progress of the game.
The interesting twist here is that the people who took part in the crowdfunding are effectively taking the place of the Publisher in this instance. If the Crowd were an actual publisher, they'd have instant access to the development status and financial records of the developers.
I'm curious to see whether or not this situation will change how Crowdfunding works in the realm of increased transparency and/or an "Crowd Investor's bill of Rights" or somesuch.
As for Mr. Smart, admire him or despise him as you will, but you can't say he didn't offer to put his money where his mouth is.
I am going to make a single post to say that, once the mainstream media who have informed me that they are doing their investigations, start doing their own reporting, these people will - hopefully - stop making this about me.
The fact is this - and I want all of you to remember this - I will be 100% vindicated when the truth comes out. No question about it.
And when that happens, we can all sit back and ponder what has gone on here, and why people have found it necessary (race, jealousy, what?) to attack me, while trying to completely deflect from the questions being asked.
It is only a matter of time. I am right. And I will be vindicated.
You think the White Knights are pissed now? Wait till my NY Times ad article goes up. Then we'll see.
Looking forward to reading it Mr. Smart
It is very simple. They try to discredit the messenger so as to drown the message.
What "message:? All I see are a lot of unwarranted accusations, baseless demands, and the howling of the publicity seeking.
*Try* to discredit?? You do realize that this is Derek Smart? The man tends to make an art form of discrediting himself, when ever he opens his mouth. Anyone who does even some basic research into his past antics knows that.
I don't care if Mr. Smart is the devil reincarnate. His message is Accountability and Transparency.
I had to laugh at that one. Derek Smart as he messenger of accountability and transparency? You clearly don't know who Derek Smart is.
I am going to make a single post to say that, once the mainstream media who have informed me that they are doing their investigations, start doing their own reporting, these people will - hopefully - stop making this about me.
The fact is this - and I want all of you to remember this - I will be 100% vindicated when the truth comes out. No question about it.
And when that happens, we can all sit back and ponder what has gone on here, and why people have found it necessary (race, jealousy, what?) to attack me, while trying to completely deflect from the questions being asked.
It is only a matter of time. I am right. And I will be vindicated.
You think the White Knights are pissed now? Wait till my NY Times ad article goes up. Then we'll see.
"Single post"? Promises, promises... ^^
Mr Smart, lets just say that you have had a "colorful" past history, and anyone familiar with your antics over the last 20+ years, automatically discounts both your sincerity as well as your motivations.
Chris Roberts on the other hand, has a demonstrated track record, and has been very open with the operation of Star Citizen. But I suspect no amount of transparency would be sufficient for some...
Knowing what a full page ad in the NYT costs,I look forward to seeing you waste that amount of money for your personal tilting at wind mills.
At least it's his money being wasted, also what did Mr Roberts do at Digital Advil for 4 years besides drive a company into the ground via mismanagement only to be bought out by Microsoft who then fired CEO Roberts?
Just an FYI, all the money CIG received is CIG's money at this point. Their only obligation is to use that money to develop a game that they advertised through crowdfunding to the best of their ability. EVEN IF Star Citizen fails and all the money is gone, if they used that money towards creating Star Citizen then there's nothing anyone who has pledged and then gifted to the project.
Now, can you, Derek Smart, or anyone provide 'proof' that the money isn't being used for its intended purpose?
No, well good luck getting the FTC to investigate based upon 'instinct' (or gut feeling), and good luck getting a court to not toss this nonsense out because Derek Smart has some 'instinct' (or a gut feeling) this is going down.
I'm convinced that Derek Smart 'thinks' he'll somehow take over Star Citizen.
Where is the $20 million dollar as advertised product Mr Roberts said in 2012 that would have a ship date of November 2014?
You're reading WAY TOO MUCH into Derek Smart's misleading message. There's a thing in crowdfunding called funding goals. Once a game reaches a goal this means new features and tech. The game soared way past initial funding goals. So, Chris Roberts and his team decided that the 'scope' of the game should expand to reflect the popularity and funding level.
Essentially, what I'm seeing from Derek Smart is the following:
Chris Robert promised us at least a sailboat, got funding for a battleship, then expanded the scope to a battleship, but I want my SAILBOAT! How dare he adjust the planning and technology development, budgeting, and what not to reflect the popularity and funding level.
Can you not see why the argument here is ridiculous?
Except stretch goals are not an completely revamp of the core system. If you completely change the premise of your vision because of stretch goals YOU placed than that makes you a very poor designer. We all know the concept for SC was pretty much already completed before KS even started. The stretch goals should have had zero effect on the completion of the core system. So I'm afraid that just sounds like a poor excuse to bide time for a game that isn't seeing the light of day any time soon, as was promised.
Yes, there's also something called the Dunning-Kruger Effect. You should learn about it sometime.
Derek Smart is a combative industry has-been with no credibility / That doesn't mean he's not right.
Now that I have the obligatory argument in every Smart/SC thread out of the way...
I think the most interesting thing here is the potential evolution of crowdfunding.
Frequently, a Video Game Publisher will also pay for the cost of making a game. Because the publisher is financing the development, it usually installs some producers or project managers to monitor the progress of the game.
The interesting twist here is that the people who took part in the crowdfunding are effectively taking the place of the Publisher in this instance. If the Crowd were an actual publisher, they'd have instant access to the development status and financial records of the developers.
I'm curious to see whether or not this situation will change how Crowdfunding works in the realm of increased transparency and/or an "Crowd Investor's bill of Rights" or somesuch.
As for Mr. Smart, admire him or despise him as you will, but you can't say he didn't offer to put his money where his mouth is.
Well you do have to consider why Crowdfunding as a concept became popular. While yes oversight comes into play when publishers enter the scenario, so does dictatorship as far as direction goes. Publishers have been pushing this genre as well as others into stagnation for a long time, that's why the concept took off. They pushed Space Sims into relative extinction..
You're also correct in that under the presence of true investment, accountability is a different matter. However that's because it's not public, it works well under that premise.
It does not when moving to a public premise, real investors understand what an investment is, they also know how a project works and what is important to keeping public perceptions positive in regard to it (that's important to the investor as well), namely when to hold your hand, and when to show your cards. In short investors have two things the public doesn't, understanding, as well as a respectable amount of patience.
Understanding leads to knowing there will be set-backs, circumstance., etc...., patience means knowing the bigger the scope, the longer term the investment, in turn the longer you wait for a return... Neither of these concepts, are in high regard to the public or mass...
You could of course appoint third party watch-dogs, yet the second those watch dogs aren't reporting what the public wants to hear, is the second they fall under public scrutiny (they're being paid off).
In short the public as a whole is an impossible thing to please.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I am going to make a single post to say that, once the mainstream media who have informed me that they are doing their investigations, start doing their own reporting, these people will - hopefully - stop making this about me.
The fact is this - and I want all of you to remember this - I will be 100% vindicated when the truth comes out. No question about it.
And when that happens, we can all sit back and ponder what has gone on here, and why people have found it necessary (race, jealousy, what?) to attack me, while trying to completely deflect from the questions being asked.
It is only a matter of time. I am right. And I will be vindicated.
You think the White Knights are pissed now? Wait till my NY Times ad article goes up. Then we'll see.
"Single post"? Promises, promises... ^^
Mr Smart, lets just say that you have had a "colorful" past history, and anyone familiar with your antics over the last 20+ years, automatically discounts both your sincerity as well as your motivations.
Chris Roberts on the other hand, has a demonstrated track record, and has been very open with the operation of Star Citizen. But I suspect no amount of transparency would be sufficient for some...
Knowing what a full page ad in the NYT costs,I look forward to seeing you waste that amount of money for your personal tilting at wind mills.
At least it's his money being wasted, also what did Mr Roberts do at Digital Advil for 4 years besides drive a company into the ground via mismanagement only to be bought out by Microsoft who then fired CEO Roberts?
Just an FYI, all the money CIG received is CIG's money at this point. Their only obligation is to use that money to develop a game that they advertised through crowdfunding to the best of their ability. EVEN IF Star Citizen fails and all the money is gone, if they used that money towards creating Star Citizen then there's nothing anyone who has pledged and then gifted to the project.
Now, can you, Derek Smart, or anyone provide 'proof' that the money isn't being used for its intended purpose?
No, well good luck getting the FTC to investigate based upon 'instinct' (or gut feeling), and good luck getting a court to not toss this nonsense out because Derek Smart has some 'instinct' (or a gut feeling) this is going down.
I'm convinced that Derek Smart 'thinks' he'll somehow take over Star Citizen.
Where is the $20 million dollar as advertised product Mr Roberts said in 2012 that would have a ship date of November 2014?
You're reading WAY TOO MUCH into Derek Smart's misleading message. There's a thing in crowdfunding called funding goals. Once a game reaches a goal this means new features and tech. The game soared way past initial funding goals. So, Chris Roberts and his team decided that the 'scope' of the game should expand to reflect the popularity and funding level.
Essentially, what I'm seeing from Derek Smart is the following:
Chris Robert promised us at least a sailboat, got funding for a battleship, then expanded the scope to a battleship, but I want my SAILBOAT! How dare he adjust the planning and technology development, budgeting, and what not to reflect the popularity and funding level.
Can you not see why the argument here is ridiculous?
A better analogy would be CR promised that we would get a house with X dollars. After X dollars all he would be doing is either building an addition onto the house, upgrading the sound system, maybe throwing in some landscaping or adding in a pond in the backyard.
The house is still there, the house shouldn't change at all since it is the core concept of the game he was pitching. You can put additions onto the house or make it look prettier inside but the original house remains. If after you get Y amount of dollars you suddenly change your mind and tell everyone you are now building a apartment complex then some people are going to look at you askew.
Derek Smart is a combative industry has-been with no credibility / That doesn't mean he's not right.
Now that I have the obligatory argument in every Smart/SC thread out of the way...
I think the most interesting thing here is the potential evolution of crowdfunding.
Frequently, a Video Game Publisher will also pay for the cost of making a game. Because the publisher is financing the development, it usually installs some producers or project managers to monitor the progress of the game.
The interesting twist here is that the people who took part in the crowdfunding are effectively taking the place of the Publisher in this instance. If the Crowd were an actual publisher, they'd have instant access to the development status and financial records of the developers.
I'm curious to see whether or not this situation will change how Crowdfunding works in the realm of increased transparency and/or an "Crowd Investor's bill of Rights" or somesuch.
As for Mr. Smart, admire him or despise him as you will, but you can't say he didn't offer to put his money where his mouth is.
Well you do have to consider why Crowdfunding as a concept became popular. While yes oversight comes into play, so does dictatorship as far as direction goes, when publishers enter the scenario. Publishers have been pushing this genre as well as others into stagnation for a long time, that's why the concept took off. They pushed Space Sims into relative extinction..
You're also correct in that under the presence of true investment, accountability is a different matter. However that's because it's not public, it works well under that premise.
It does not when moving to a public premise, real investors understand what an investment is, they also know how a project works and what is important to keeping public perceptions positive in regard to it (that's important to the investor as well), namely when to hold your hand, and when to show your cards. In short investors have two things the public doesn't, understanding, as well as a respectable amount of patience.
Understanding leads to knowing there will be set-backs, circumstance., etc...., patience means knowing the bigger the scope, the longer term the investment, in turn the longer you wait for a return... Neither of these concepts, are in high regard to the public or mass...
You could of course appoint third party watch-dogs, yet the second those watch dogs aren't reporting what the public wants to hear, is the second they fall under public scrutiny (they're being paid off).
In short the public as a whole is an impossible thing to please.
I believe that Derek Smart knows this, but also knows that the general gaming community doesn't. So, he's playing on people's lack of knowledge. The question I have is what's Derek Smart's endgame in all of this. I'm convinced there's three possibilities:
1) He's simply doing it for the spotlight. Given his history it wouldn't be surprising.
2) He wants to see either the project burn or Chris Roberts burn due to pass grudges.
3) He thinks he'll somehow get a foot in the door, possibly as CEO. This isn't nearly as far-fetch as you think it is. He has a history of hostile takeovers in the past (Alganon and David Allen), and he has a history that shows his massive ego & narcissism. Based upon history, it's not a stretch to think that Derek Smart thinks he can pull off the ultimate takeover and gain access to the crowdfunding resources that other managed to gain via successful crowdfunding efforts.
Honestly, I don't know which one, but based upon his clear deceptive and misleading comments, he's not some white knight for backers.
I am going to make a single post to say that, once the mainstream media who have informed me that they are doing their investigations, start doing their own reporting, these people will - hopefully - stop making this about me.
The fact is this - and I want all of you to remember this - I will be 100% vindicated when the truth comes out. No question about it.
And when that happens, we can all sit back and ponder what has gone on here, and why people have found it necessary (race, jealousy, what?) to attack me, while trying to completely deflect from the questions being asked.
It is only a matter of time. I am right. And I will be vindicated.
You think the White Knights are pissed now? Wait till my NY Times ad article goes up. Then we'll see.
"Single post"? Promises, promises... ^^
Mr Smart, lets just say that you have had a "colorful" past history, and anyone familiar with your antics over the last 20+ years, automatically discounts both your sincerity as well as your motivations.
Chris Roberts on the other hand, has a demonstrated track record, and has been very open with the operation of Star Citizen. But I suspect no amount of transparency would be sufficient for some...
Knowing what a full page ad in the NYT costs,I look forward to seeing you waste that amount of money for your personal tilting at wind mills.
At least it's his money being wasted, also what did Mr Roberts do at Digital Advil for 4 years besides drive a company into the ground via mismanagement only to be bought out by Microsoft who then fired CEO Roberts?
Just an FYI, all the money CIG received is CIG's money at this point. Their only obligation is to use that money to develop a game that they advertised through crowdfunding to the best of their ability. EVEN IF Star Citizen fails and all the money is gone, if they used that money towards creating Star Citizen then there's nothing anyone who has pledged and then gifted to the project.
Now, can you, Derek Smart, or anyone provide 'proof' that the money isn't being used for its intended purpose?
No, well good luck getting the FTC to investigate based upon 'instinct' (or gut feeling), and good luck getting a court to not toss this nonsense out because Derek Smart has some 'instinct' (or a gut feeling) this is going down.
I'm convinced that Derek Smart 'thinks' he'll somehow take over Star Citizen.
Where is the $20 million dollar as advertised product Mr Roberts said in 2012 that would have a ship date of November 2014?
You're reading WAY TOO MUCH into Derek Smart's misleading message. There's a thing in crowdfunding called funding goals. Once a game reaches a goal this means new features and tech. The game soared way past initial funding goals. So, Chris Roberts and his team decided that the 'scope' of the game should expand to reflect the popularity and funding level.
Essentially, what I'm seeing from Derek Smart is the following:
Chris Robert promised us at least a sailboat, got funding for a battleship, then expanded the scope to a battleship, but I want my SAILBOAT! How dare he adjust the planning and technology development, budgeting, and what not to reflect the popularity and funding level.
Can you not see why the argument here is ridiculous?
A better analogy would be CR promised that we would get a house with X dollars. After X dollars all he would be doing is either building an addition onto the house, upgrading the sound system, maybe throwing in some landscaping or adding in a pond in the backyard.
The house is still there, the house shouldn't change at all since it is the core concept of the game he was pitching. You can put additions onto the house or make it look prettier inside but the original house remains. If after you get Y amount of dollars you suddenly change your mind and tell everyone you are now building a apartment complex then some people are going to look at you askew.
Anyone that looks at someone 'askew' when they expand the scope of the project after the resources for that project expanded past what was needed for the original scope are one of two things:
I am going to make a single post to say that, once the mainstream media who have informed me that they are doing their investigations, start doing their own reporting, these people will - hopefully - stop making this about me.
The fact is this - and I want all of you to remember this - I will be 100% vindicated when the truth comes out. No question about it.
And when that happens, we can all sit back and ponder what has gone on here, and why people have found it necessary (race, jealousy, what?) to attack me, while trying to completely deflect from the questions being asked.
It is only a matter of time. I am right. And I will be vindicated.
You think the White Knights are pissed now? Wait till my NY Times ad article goes up. Then we'll see.
"Single post"? Promises, promises... ^^
Mr Smart, lets just say that you have had a "colorful" past history, and anyone familiar with your antics over the last 20+ years, automatically discounts both your sincerity as well as your motivations.
Chris Roberts on the other hand, has a demonstrated track record, and has been very open with the operation of Star Citizen. But I suspect no amount of transparency would be sufficient for some...
Knowing what a full page ad in the NYT costs,I look forward to seeing you waste that amount of money for your personal tilting at wind mills.
At least it's his money being wasted, also what did Mr Roberts do at Digital Advil for 4 years besides drive a company into the ground via mismanagement only to be bought out by Microsoft who then fired CEO Roberts?
Just an FYI, all the money CIG received is CIG's money at this point. Their only obligation is to use that money to develop a game that they advertised through crowdfunding to the best of their ability. EVEN IF Star Citizen fails and all the money is gone, if they used that money towards creating Star Citizen then there's nothing anyone who has pledged and then gifted to the project.
Now, can you, Derek Smart, or anyone provide 'proof' that the money isn't being used for its intended purpose?
No, well good luck getting the FTC to investigate based upon 'instinct' (or gut feeling), and good luck getting a court to not toss this nonsense out because Derek Smart has some 'instinct' (or a gut feeling) this is going down.
I'm convinced that Derek Smart 'thinks' he'll somehow take over Star Citizen.
Where is the $20 million dollar as advertised product Mr Roberts said in 2012 that would have a ship date of November 2014?
You're reading WAY TOO MUCH into Derek Smart's misleading message. There's a thing in crowdfunding called funding goals. Once a game reaches a goal this means new features and tech. The game soared way past initial funding goals. So, Chris Roberts and his team decided that the 'scope' of the game should expand to reflect the popularity and funding level.
Essentially, what I'm seeing from Derek Smart is the following:
Chris Robert promised us at least a sailboat, got funding for a battleship, then expanded the scope to a battleship, but I want my SAILBOAT! How dare he adjust the planning and technology development, budgeting, and what not to reflect the popularity and funding level.
Can you not see why the argument here is ridiculous?
A better analogy would be CR promised that we would get a house with X dollars. After X dollars all he would be doing is either building an addition onto the house, upgrading the sound system, maybe throwing in some landscaping or adding in a pond in the backyard.
The house is still there, the house shouldn't change at all since it is the core concept of the game he was pitching. You can put additions onto the house or make it look prettier inside but the original house remains. If after you get Y amount of dollars you suddenly change your mind and tell everyone you are now building a apartment complex then some people are going to look at you askew.
Anyone that looks at someone 'askew' when they expand the scope of the project after the resources for that project expanded past what was needed for the original scope are one of two things:
1) Being unreasonable.
2) Have an agenda.
You also completely avoided the point I was making and instead put it out there that anyone who asks questions is clearly wrong.
If you say you can make a game for half a mil and get 2.1 mil then great. And yes I realize the KS was to drum up interest and show investors it would work in order to garner more money. If you have raised another 83 million and the original idea, the CORE concept, your game is based on still doesn't exist then something is wrong. I'm not saying you don't build star marine or not to make it extremely high res but you should be building the core game first before you add on the bells and whistles.
People have got to realize that this company is a private entity. Chrid Roberts doesn't have to do a damn thing if this all doesn't pan out of his way. He doesn't have to resign, he doesn't have to give anybody anything, it's his choice sink or swim.
Originally posted by Akuzimo People have got to realize that this company is a private entity. Chrid Roberts doesn't have to do a damn thing if this all doesn't pan out of his way. He doesn't have to resign, he doesn't have to give anybody anything, it's his choice sink or swim.
I want to know where Dsmart got the money to do this? I doubt he himself had the money, where did he get it from? the people who paid a sub/cash shop in his games? that money is supposed to go to his games to make them better for the people playing those games, not to attack some other game/person. The money he got from those games is about as much his money as this backers money is these peoples.
If the backers really want the info, launch said campaign yourself, you helped fund it, you brought it off the ground, you showed everyone how much of an impact you made...do it again, if you want said answers so much, stop buying ships and start buying people to look into it.. Dsmart needs to work on his own games and make them better, focus on the positive and construction, this isn't his fight, this is the backers fights his past is too questionable to be a good leader. Let them hire the lawyers and ask for more info.
When 1M is put down to want to know everything, motives have to be questioned, especially if the two have a past together. Thats why the term motive was made. Why did this person do this? what do they gain out of this? These are some of the first questions a lawyer will ask. The first will be of course, how much do i get out of doing this case for you...obviously
Sure the backers getting info is nice, and maybe if they aren't being straightforward with the process then the backers should be more firm with them, Dsmart needs to just get out of this, his current rep is actually making it harder for the backers message to get out (that they want to know where the money is going) as now his past, his motive and his "grandstanding" are being thrown into the loop.
The longer he tries to stay in this, the more the backers message will get muddled, and the more this will become about Dsmart and Roberts war on each other and less about is the money going where the backers want it. As is already starting to happen. For the sake of the backers if you are concerned, you need to get the distractions (Dsmart) out of your picture as he is "too close" and is clouding your case.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
[Edit for clarity] And he did and does follow the rules.
Have fun
And that's the whole point isn't it?
D.Smart cannot demand all the things he has demanded in the way he has.
What he can do - if he thinks there is a serious problem - is refer the matter to consumer bodies (which I think he has done?)
It's up to them (bodies like the FTC) to see if they think there is a problem, if they think laws have been broken, and act accordingly.
In this case - so long as RSI at least tried to produce a game and used the funds for that purpose (even the 'private jet' could be legitimate if used for business purposes) then there is no problem.
What could happen - IF RSI goes bankrupt - is that those players who purchased virtual items (ships etc) could become unsecured creditors... but they are unlikely to get all their money back.
In that case, again, consumer bodies would become involved.
The big thing though would be that an $85 million flop would no doubt result in a serious look at the laws in this area - which IMHO is long overdue.
I want to know where Dsmart got the money to do this? ...
How do you know he even has the money ? Because he says so ?
He only has to deposit the money if CIG are crazy enough to accede to his demands. There's no way they will do that, so Derek doesn't have to show the money. Ever.
It will always remain as an empty threat. He knows they won't call his bluff.
I am going to make a single post to say that, once the mainstream media who have informed me that they are doing their investigations, start doing their own reporting, these people will - hopefully - stop making this about me.
The fact is this - and I want all of you to remember this - I will be 100% vindicated when the truth comes out. No question about it.
And when that happens, we can all sit back and ponder what has gone on here, and why people have found it necessary (race, jealousy, what?) to attack me, while trying to completely deflect from the questions being asked.
It is only a matter of time. I am right. And I will be vindicated.
You think the White Knights are pissed now? Wait till my NY Times ad article goes up. Then we'll see.
Looking forward to reading it Mr. Smart
It is very simple. They try to discredit the messenger so as to drown the message.
What "message:? All I see are a lot of unwarranted accusations, baseless demands, and the howling of the publicity seeking.
*Try* to discredit?? You do realize that this is Derek Smart? The man tends to make an art form of discrediting himself, when ever he opens his mouth. Anyone who does even some basic research into his past antics knows that.
I don't care if Mr. Smart is the devil reincarnate. His message is Accountability and Transparency.
Me thinks you grant the "Internet Warlord" way too much status. He's more an Imp of the perverse, than the Devil. ^^
There has been plenty of "Accountability" and "Transparency" as far as I'm concerned. Chris Roberts and his staff have gone well out of their way in keeping their supporters informed.
But its obviously that NO amount of "Accountability" and "Transparency" would be sufficient for some... That being the case, this is much more about publicity for a certain Imp, than any real "concern" about the supporters.
And I can't wait until donators see how much cash these people have spent on there own personal lives.
Nor can I if that is the case.
People DO know that Chris Roberts was not exactly poor as a church mouse even BEFORE he started this project, do they not ?
I am interested ... HOW will people know if ANY money spend on his private life came from the last 2.5 years of his life (and out of the crowdfunding money) instead of the first 44 years of his life (and the money earned from a few world famous computer games like Wing Commander and various Hollywood blockbuster movies like Lord of War) ?
Have fun
I gotta stop editing my posts to add more thoughts, ha... This is what i added after you started to quote it..."Yet you have to remember that money is to pay their salaries, that's the point of kickstarter. People can't do this and work a full time job as well, hence the main reason in going for crowdfunding in the first place. It's money to maintain the business, which is essential to have a game. So you can bet any crowdfunded studio is using that money in their personal lives"
Correct. I suspect that if this "forensic accounting" ever happens, the worst offense they might find is hiring too many people, paying good salaries and "wasted" R&D... a long way from malfeasance.
Poor budget management is not a criminal offense last time I looked.
Exactly
Depends. There are rumors of a personal Jet and those arent cheap. You also have to wonder how much he is paying himself and his 2 family members. Is it a fair wage? Are they grossly overpaid? Do they really have 300 employees? Do the books reflect that? Did any of the backer money go toward any personal uses? What about the actual progress of the game? Only a fraction of the ships they have sold actually exist... And a ton of other questions.
I suspect some of those answers wouldnt reflect to kindly on them.
KS only promise. We get X money you will get Y product. No saying its ok if he spent some of that money on something nice for himself before the game was made but... At this point, nobody has broken any laws. Till he cant make the game. Has that happened?
For those that backed on kickstarter.. Yes. That game does not and will not ever exist. So at least that 2.1 million deserves to be gave back to any that want a refund. That game was supposed to have been out last Nov.
Proof?
Do you know what the word estimated means? No where does it say it will be! MMOs give estimated dates all the time and rarely meet them. Are you new to MMOs?
And I can't wait until donators see how much cash these people have spent on there own personal lives.
Nor can I if that is the case.
People DO know that Chris Roberts was not exactly poor as a church mouse even BEFORE he started this project, do they not ?
I am interested ... HOW will people know if ANY money spend on his private life came from the last 2.5 years of his life (and out of the crowdfunding money) instead of the first 44 years of his life (and the money earned from a few world famous computer games like Wing Commander and various Hollywood blockbuster movies like Lord of War) ?
Have fun
I gotta stop editing my posts to add more thoughts, ha... This is what i added after you started to quote it..."Yet you have to remember that money is to pay their salaries, that's the point of kickstarter. People can't do this and work a full time job as well, hence the main reason in going for crowdfunding in the first place. It's money to maintain the business, which is essential to have a game. So you can bet any crowdfunded studio is using that money in their personal lives"
Correct. I suspect that if this "forensic accounting" ever happens, the worst offense they might find is hiring too many people, paying good salaries and "wasted" R&D... a long way from malfeasance.
Poor budget management is not a criminal offense last time I looked.
Exactly
Depends. There are rumors of a personal Jet and those arent cheap. You also have to wonder how much he is paying himself and his 2 family members. Is it a fair wage? Are they grossly overpaid? Do they really have 300 employees? Do the books reflect that? Did any of the backer money go toward any personal uses? What about the actual progress of the game? Only a fraction of the ships they have sold actually exist... And a ton of other questions.
I suspect some of those answers wouldnt reflect to kindly on them.
KS only promise. We get X money you will get Y product. No saying its ok if he spent some of that money on something nice for himself before the game was made but... At this point, nobody has broken any laws. Till he cant make the game. Has that happened?
For those that backed on kickstarter.. Yes. That game does not and will not ever exist. So at least that 2.1 million deserves to be gave back to any that want a refund. That game was supposed to have been out last Nov.
Proof?
Do you know what the word estimated means? No where does it say it will be! MMOs give estimated dates all the time and rarely meet them. Are you new to MMOs?
Which is why more than one source from CR himself puts the release date Oct-Nov 2014.
At GDC Online Roberts also announced a program to bring his devotees and other interested parties much closer to the development process. A crowd funding site has been posted at www.robertsspaceindustries.com to help raise the necessary funds for completing development of the project. “Our purpose today,” said Roberts, “is to allow our fans to join us in this process early. It will likely be another two years before the full product is ready for release, but early backers will be able to play a version of the game a year from now."
Which is why more than one source from CR himself puts the release date Oct-Nov 2014.
You - just like jcrg99 - quote a timeline from Nov 2012 that was OBSOLETE in Dec 2012 due to the immense success of the crowdfunding campaign. The scope of the project changed and with it the timeline. Of course you know it and intentionally continue to quote the OLD, OBSOLETE timeline. Its not like CIG have not communicated that the timeline has changed ... many many times .... for the last 2.5 years. Lets conventiently leave out that little piece of data.
The interview you quote is from Oct 2012, before the immense success of the crowdfunding campaign. It AGAIN refers to the OLD, OBSOLETE timeline. Back then even Chris Roberts would not have known that his campaign will net him 20 times more than expected.
Comments
There's also well documented and existing content on the Internet that will make you question his 'crusade' for backers. Then there's the recent things that have come to light about what appears to be a grudge he has towards Chris Roberts from back 25 years ago.
I mean, based upon words Derek Smart has used himself, it sounds like he's burning up inside over the fact that Chris Roberts has $85 mil to developg a vision that Derek Smart seems to think he owns all rights to developing, and no one else.
I believe there is an ulterior motive at play here under the guise of 'I care that people might be getting scammed'. And I can honestly say I don't give two sh*ts about SC, hence why I never bothered to fund them when friends of mine did. But just looking at the tactics DS is using, the threats and the posturing, the man is up to something more than 'getting facts for the people'.
If backers truly want accountability and transparency on all things CIG/SC, that's great and should be encouraged. However, following this mans crusade might not be the wisest of decisions as it seems to be tainted with personal gain in mind.
Many bad journeys began with the words of a passionate messenger.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I don't care if Mr. Smart is the devil reincarnate. His message is Accountability and Transparency.
http://www.entropiapartners.com/?r=22415
Derek Smart is a combative industry has-been with no credibility / That doesn't mean he's not right.
Now that I have the obligatory argument in every Smart/SC thread out of the way...
I think the most interesting thing here is the potential evolution of crowdfunding.
Frequently, a Video Game Publisher will also pay for the cost of making a game. Because the publisher is financing the development, it usually installs some producers or project managers to monitor the progress of the game.
The interesting twist here is that the people who took part in the crowdfunding are effectively taking the place of the Publisher in this instance. If the Crowd were an actual publisher, they'd have instant access to the development status and financial records of the developers.
I'm curious to see whether or not this situation will change how Crowdfunding works in the realm of increased transparency and/or an "Crowd Investor's bill of Rights" or somesuch.
As for Mr. Smart, admire him or despise him as you will, but you can't say he didn't offer to put his money where his mouth is.
I had to laugh at that one. Derek Smart as he messenger of accountability and transparency? You clearly don't know who Derek Smart is.
Yes, there's also something called the Dunning-Kruger Effect. You should learn about it sometime.
Well you do have to consider why Crowdfunding as a concept became popular. While yes oversight comes into play when publishers enter the scenario, so does dictatorship as far as direction goes. Publishers have been pushing this genre as well as others into stagnation for a long time, that's why the concept took off. They pushed Space Sims into relative extinction..
You're also correct in that under the presence of true investment, accountability is a different matter. However that's because it's not public, it works well under that premise.
It does not when moving to a public premise, real investors understand what an investment is, they also know how a project works and what is important to keeping public perceptions positive in regard to it (that's important to the investor as well), namely when to hold your hand, and when to show your cards. In short investors have two things the public doesn't, understanding, as well as a respectable amount of patience.
Understanding leads to knowing there will be set-backs, circumstance., etc...., patience means knowing the bigger the scope, the longer term the investment, in turn the longer you wait for a return... Neither of these concepts, are in high regard to the public or mass...
You could of course appoint third party watch-dogs, yet the second those watch dogs aren't reporting what the public wants to hear, is the second they fall under public scrutiny (they're being paid off).
In short the public as a whole is an impossible thing to please.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
A better analogy would be CR promised that we would get a house with X dollars. After X dollars all he would be doing is either building an addition onto the house, upgrading the sound system, maybe throwing in some landscaping or adding in a pond in the backyard.
The house is still there, the house shouldn't change at all since it is the core concept of the game he was pitching. You can put additions onto the house or make it look prettier inside but the original house remains. If after you get Y amount of dollars you suddenly change your mind and tell everyone you are now building a apartment complex then some people are going to look at you askew.
I believe that Derek Smart knows this, but also knows that the general gaming community doesn't. So, he's playing on people's lack of knowledge. The question I have is what's Derek Smart's endgame in all of this. I'm convinced there's three possibilities:
1) He's simply doing it for the spotlight. Given his history it wouldn't be surprising.
2) He wants to see either the project burn or Chris Roberts burn due to pass grudges.
3) He thinks he'll somehow get a foot in the door, possibly as CEO. This isn't nearly as far-fetch as you think it is. He has a history of hostile takeovers in the past (Alganon and David Allen), and he has a history that shows his massive ego & narcissism. Based upon history, it's not a stretch to think that Derek Smart thinks he can pull off the ultimate takeover and gain access to the crowdfunding resources that other managed to gain via successful crowdfunding efforts.
Honestly, I don't know which one, but based upon his clear deceptive and misleading comments, he's not some white knight for backers.
Anyone that looks at someone 'askew' when they expand the scope of the project after the resources for that project expanded past what was needed for the original scope are one of two things:
1) Being unreasonable.
2) Have an agenda.
Derek Smart is still a thing?
Come on people, learn to discern.
You also completely avoided the point I was making and instead put it out there that anyone who asks questions is clearly wrong.
If you say you can make a game for half a mil and get 2.1 mil then great. And yes I realize the KS was to drum up interest and show investors it would work in order to garner more money. If you have raised another 83 million and the original idea, the CORE concept, your game is based on still doesn't exist then something is wrong. I'm not saying you don't build star marine or not to make it extremely high res but you should be building the core game first before you add on the bells and whistles.
Not quite true.
There are still rules he has to follow.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
[Edit for clarity] And he did and does follow the rules.
Have fun
Did? as in past tense?
I wasn't aware the game was released.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
I want to know where Dsmart got the money to do this? I doubt he himself had the money, where did he get it from? the people who paid a sub/cash shop in his games? that money is supposed to go to his games to make them better for the people playing those games, not to attack some other game/person. The money he got from those games is about as much his money as this backers money is these peoples.
If the backers really want the info, launch said campaign yourself, you helped fund it, you brought it off the ground, you showed everyone how much of an impact you made...do it again, if you want said answers so much, stop buying ships and start buying people to look into it.. Dsmart needs to work on his own games and make them better, focus on the positive and construction, this isn't his fight, this is the backers fights his past is too questionable to be a good leader. Let them hire the lawyers and ask for more info.
When 1M is put down to want to know everything, motives have to be questioned, especially if the two have a past together. Thats why the term motive was made. Why did this person do this? what do they gain out of this? These are some of the first questions a lawyer will ask. The first will be of course, how much do i get out of doing this case for you...obviously
Sure the backers getting info is nice, and maybe if they aren't being straightforward with the process then the backers should be more firm with them, Dsmart needs to just get out of this, his current rep is actually making it harder for the backers message to get out (that they want to know where the money is going) as now his past, his motive and his "grandstanding" are being thrown into the loop.
The longer he tries to stay in this, the more the backers message will get muddled, and the more this will become about Dsmart and Roberts war on each other and less about is the money going where the backers want it. As is already starting to happen. For the sake of the backers if you are concerned, you need to get the distractions (Dsmart) out of your picture as he is "too close" and is clouding your case.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
And that's the whole point isn't it?
D.Smart cannot demand all the things he has demanded in the way he has.
What he can do - if he thinks there is a serious problem - is refer the matter to consumer bodies (which I think he has done?)
It's up to them (bodies like the FTC) to see if they think there is a problem, if they think laws have been broken, and act accordingly.
In this case - so long as RSI at least tried to produce a game and used the funds for that purpose (even the 'private jet' could be legitimate if used for business purposes) then there is no problem.
What could happen - IF RSI goes bankrupt - is that those players who purchased virtual items (ships etc) could become unsecured creditors... but they are unlikely to get all their money back.
In that case, again, consumer bodies would become involved.
The big thing though would be that an $85 million flop would no doubt result in a serious look at the laws in this area - which IMHO is long overdue.
Wait and see. We are not there yet.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
They could release a half-assed game and claim it is complete.
There are many cases of this happening on Kickstarter and no successful legal action has taken place.
That's exactly right. Especially since quite a few games are half-assed anyway.
They just have to make sure all the Virtual items they sold are included - even if they are completely broken.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
How do you know he even has the money ? Because he says so ?
He only has to deposit the money if CIG are crazy enough to accede to his demands. There's no way they will do that, so Derek doesn't have to show the money. Ever.
It will always remain as an empty threat. He knows they won't call his bluff.
Me thinks you grant the "Internet Warlord" way too much status. He's more an Imp of the perverse, than the Devil. ^^
There has been plenty of "Accountability" and "Transparency" as far as I'm concerned. Chris Roberts and his staff have gone well out of their way in keeping their supporters informed.
But its obviously that NO amount of "Accountability" and "Transparency" would be sufficient for some... That being the case, this is much more about publicity for a certain Imp, than any real "concern" about the supporters.
Do you know what the word estimated means? No where does it say it will be! MMOs give estimated dates all the time and rarely meet them. Are you new to MMOs?
Which is why more than one source from CR himself puts the release date Oct-Nov 2014.
http://www.bluesnews.com/s/135867/chris-roberts-star-citizen-announced
[Oct 10, 2012, 10:32 am ET]
At GDC Online Roberts also announced a program to bring his devotees and other interested parties much closer to the development process. A crowd funding site has been posted at www.robertsspaceindustries.com to help raise the necessary funds for completing development of the project. “Our purpose today,” said Roberts, “is to allow our fans to join us in this process early. It will likely be another two years before the full product is ready for release, but early backers will be able to play a version of the game a year from now."
You must be new to piss poor Project Management.
You - just like jcrg99 - quote a timeline from Nov 2012 that was OBSOLETE in Dec 2012 due to the immense success of the crowdfunding campaign. The scope of the project changed and with it the timeline. Of course you know it and intentionally continue to quote the OLD, OBSOLETE timeline. Its not like CIG have not communicated that the timeline has changed ... many many times .... for the last 2.5 years. Lets conventiently leave out that little piece of data.
The interview you quote is from Oct 2012, before the immense success of the crowdfunding campaign. It AGAIN refers to the OLD, OBSOLETE timeline. Back then even Chris Roberts would not have known that his campaign will net him 20 times more than expected.
Have fun