Mind you, the talk about a Warhammer MMO was already happening in the early 90's, but the parent company didn't have the funding to get into the video game industry. "WarCraft", preceded the "Shadow of the Horned Rat" RTS game on Sony Playstation, but I think anyone who ever played both games know's SotHR blew WC out of the water. But the damage was done. The franchise that stole the Orc, Human, Dwarf, Elf, Undead, Demonic, Magic across deminsional reality war theme, had made money off the sales to the WH fan base who only bought WC as a filler until the "REAL" game got released. The rushed, not well made, but well programmed and well funded WC RTS was a smash hit as well, and those who never got around to the SotHR missed the real masterpiece.
Then the same corporate entity did the same thing, by making a MMO twice as well produced, for twice the money, in half the time it took to release WAR.
So really all you people are championing is hostile takeover, and the lucky strike that WoW was designed by some pretty gifted talents. Taking nothing from the innovations and the skill sets that produced that actual work on the game, and I'm happy they got paid doing it.
I'm not hating them in that regard.
I'm hating the bypass that ruined the market for WAR well before it was on the shelves, and which forced it to rush to product to compete in the then flooded market against their pirated generic concept. WoW could have been done in a totally different fantasy setting and still be king, don't get me wrong, but they chose to usurp the position already filled by a king since 1988.
I like WoW for what it was, but loath it for what it did to the competition and particularly to WarHammer Fantasy Battles niches.
So think what you will, in the end it will be anti-WoW that restores the quality of online games to something not produced for masses to make billions, but something conserative to generate hardcore fans, that makes millions, and allows the shallow members of the MMO craze to phase out the way they should have if all there was, was a well made and better backed WAR.
Actually, Warcraft was originally planned to be set in the Warhammer world but Games workshop didn't believe in Blizzard who at the time were mainly known for porting Amiga games like battlechess to PC.
If they had changed their mind then it is not unlikely it would have been "World of Warhammer" instead.
The real problem with WAR was that they tried to base a RPG game on the tabletop instead of on the Warhammer roleplaying game. The Warhammer tabletop would have been better for a FPS or strategy type of game but people tend to miss that the Warhammer RPG actually is a real gem with some of the best source material ever made.
"The Enemy within" is just made to be turned into a MMORPG campaign, it got lore, story and humor far beyond any MMORPG ever had, in fact it is better than any single player game as well.
Also, WAR heavily censored the world to take away the adult stuff, plenty of sex and drugs in Warhammer. And they also simplified it far more then they should have. It took away a lot of the spirit of the old World.
Originally posted by BaghoolOr was it the fact a WoW antagonist even existed?Mind you, the talk about a Warhammer MMO was already happening in the early 90's, but the parent company didn't have the funding to get into the video game industry. "WarCraft", preceded the "Shadow of the Horned Rat" RTS game on Sony Playstation, but I think anyone who ever played both games know's SotHR blew WC out of the water. But the damage was done. The franchise that stole the Orc, Human, Dwarf, Elf, Undead, Demonic, Magic across deminsional reality war theme, had made money off the sales to the WH fan base who only bought WC as a filler until the "REAL" game got released. The rushed, not well made, but well programmed and well funded WC RTS was a smash hit as well, and those who never got around to the SotHR missed the real masterpiece.Then the same corporate entity did the same thing, by making a MMO twice as well produced, for twice the money, in half the time it took to release WAR.So really all you people are championing is hostile takeover, and the lucky strike that WoW was designed by some pretty gifted talents. Taking nothing from the innovations and the skill sets that produced that actual work on the game, and I'm happy they got paid doing it.I'm not hating them in that regard.I'm hating the bypass that ruined the market for WAR well before it was on the shelves, and which forced it to rush to product to compete in the then flooded market against their pirated generic concept. WoW could have been done in a totally different fantasy setting and still be king, don't get me wrong, but they chose to usurp the position already filled by a king since 1988.I like WoW for what it was, but loath it for what it did to the competition and particularly to WarHammer Fantasy Battles niches.So think what you will, in the end it will be anti-WoW that restores the quality of online games to something not produced for masses to make billions, but something conserative to generate hardcore fans, that makes millions, and allows the shallow members of the MMO craze to phase out the way they should have if all there was, was a well made and better backed WAR.
Actually, Warcraft was originally planned to be set in the Warhammer world but Games workshop didn't believe in Blizzard who at the time were mainly known for porting Amiga games like battlechess to PC.
If they had changed their mind then it is not unlikely it would have been "World of Warhammer" instead.
The real problem with WAR was that they tried to base a RPG game on the tabletop instead of on the Warhammer roleplaying game. The Warhammer tabletop would have been better for a FPS or strategy type of game but people tend to miss that the Warhammer RPG actually is a real gem with some of the best source material ever made.
"The Enemy within" is just made to be turned into a MMORPG campaign, it got lore, story and humor far beyond any MMORPG ever had, in fact it is better than any single player game as well.
Also, WAR heavily censored the world to take away the adult stuff, plenty of sex and drugs in Warhammer. And they also simplified it far more then they should have. It took away a lot of the spirit of the old World.
Amen.
"Investment firms do not have that outlook on life. They need to know there is not only a return on their investment but also a solid profit at the end of it." tawess-
Lets not even get started on the 40k and SC rivalry, which was the same thing.
A lot of this can be chalked up to Blizzard holding a grudge on GW.
It was good for them though, and I'm sure they hold no hard feeling today, the grudge has changed hands.
I think the toning of the video game industry to gear it for kids only when the Atari kid generation never quit the market was a huge blunder for the public, but it did wonders to help corporate earnings around December every year.
But no one wants to see the reality of that, they just want to entrench on their own side an lob turds.
I want the two to reconcile and two markets to emerge, one strictly adult... One WoW-ish... lol
"Investment firms do not have that outlook on life. They need to know there is not only a return on their investment but also a solid profit at the end of it." tawess-
But I have done a ton of study, and research, and am a fan's fan in regards to programming. I respect the advice. I hope it is mutually returned in constructive and not combative terms.
But to those who just want to poke it with a stick and spit in my direction, you can go toot a horn...
(water off a ducks back)
Yep, you shouldn't even think about people being combatative or not. Just pull the useful infos out of it and disregard the rest.
Just to clarify: My post wasn't even meant to be condescending or combatative at all, I am not implying I know it all better. I tried to dig down deeper on some of those points because they sounded like they could have a negative impact on your game. Im happy to see you (or anyone making games) succeed. The more good games the better.
Honestly, there is no bad feedback. There is just noise and feedback.
Filter out the noise (trolling, the inevitable stories about your mother, insults), adjust for bias (players are heavily biased) and what remains is useful feedback, no matter how it is worded.
In my experience the negative stuff is usually more useful than the positive. Just never take anything personally. (most devs would be in mental hospitals if they'd let any of the crap that gets posted get to them)
On that note, I found your points of address good springboards to help me detail what is going on with my efforts.
I was not offended, I was pleased to see you actually probed to get my logical reply.
It helps me (as much as the onlooker) to work out in words what will one day hopefully be in code.
I never put too much stock in fighting in a forum, I typically let a flamer flame and move on to the next unfortunate soul unlucky enough to meet them. I do get miffed once in a great while, I'm only human, but I found your post helpful and it seemed to come from a place of self experiences that were being related to help and not discourage.
I thank you for it, if that wasn't already apparent in my former reply.
"Investment firms do not have that outlook on life. They need to know there is not only a return on their investment but also a solid profit at the end of it." tawess-
Comments
Actually, Warcraft was originally planned to be set in the Warhammer world but Games workshop didn't believe in Blizzard who at the time were mainly known for porting Amiga games like battlechess to PC.
If they had changed their mind then it is not unlikely it would have been "World of Warhammer" instead.
The real problem with WAR was that they tried to base a RPG game on the tabletop instead of on the Warhammer roleplaying game. The Warhammer tabletop would have been better for a FPS or strategy type of game but people tend to miss that the Warhammer RPG actually is a real gem with some of the best source material ever made.
"The Enemy within" is just made to be turned into a MMORPG campaign, it got lore, story and humor far beyond any MMORPG ever had, in fact it is better than any single player game as well.
Also, WAR heavily censored the world to take away the adult stuff, plenty of sex and drugs in Warhammer. And they also simplified it far more then they should have. It took away a lot of the spirit of the old World.
Actually, Warcraft was originally planned to be set in the Warhammer world but Games workshop didn't believe in Blizzard who at the time were mainly known for porting Amiga games like battlechess to PC.
If they had changed their mind then it is not unlikely it would have been "World of Warhammer" instead.
The real problem with WAR was that they tried to base a RPG game on the tabletop instead of on the Warhammer roleplaying game. The Warhammer tabletop would have been better for a FPS or strategy type of game but people tend to miss that the Warhammer RPG actually is a real gem with some of the best source material ever made.
"The Enemy within" is just made to be turned into a MMORPG campaign, it got lore, story and humor far beyond any MMORPG ever had, in fact it is better than any single player game as well.
Also, WAR heavily censored the world to take away the adult stuff, plenty of sex and drugs in Warhammer. And they also simplified it far more then they should have. It took away a lot of the spirit of the old World.
Amen."Investment firms do not have that outlook on life. They need to know there is not only a return on their investment but also a solid profit at the end of it." tawess-
Lets not even get started on the 40k and SC rivalry, which was the same thing.
A lot of this can be chalked up to Blizzard holding a grudge on GW.
It was good for them though, and I'm sure they hold no hard feeling today, the grudge has changed hands.
I think the toning of the video game industry to gear it for kids only when the Atari kid generation never quit the market was a huge blunder for the public, but it did wonders to help corporate earnings around December every year.
But no one wants to see the reality of that, they just want to entrench on their own side an lob turds.
I want the two to reconcile and two markets to emerge, one strictly adult... One WoW-ish... lol
"Investment firms do not have that outlook on life. They need to know there is not only a return on their investment but also a solid profit at the end of it." tawess-
On that note, I found your points of address good springboards to help me detail what is going on with my efforts.
I was not offended, I was pleased to see you actually probed to get my logical reply.
It helps me (as much as the onlooker) to work out in words what will one day hopefully be in code.
I never put too much stock in fighting in a forum, I typically let a flamer flame and move on to the next unfortunate soul unlucky enough to meet them. I do get miffed once in a great while, I'm only human, but I found your post helpful and it seemed to come from a place of self experiences that were being related to help and not discourage.
I thank you for it, if that wasn't already apparent in my former reply.
"Investment firms do not have that outlook on life. They need to know there is not only a return on their investment but also a solid profit at the end of it." tawess-