John was an hardcore tabletop roleplayer. He played long weekend sessions with his friends, and they let their imagination take them to many a place. They spend long hours painting miniture monsters and characters and had pouches of dice in all shapes and colors. John had posters, read fantasybooks, game rule books, and game master tools.. Yes indeed, he was really into it.
Then as it happens, it got harder to schedule whole weekends for game sessions, and they started playing an evening here and there. It got hard to keep up the full experience with life taking more and more of their energy, and feeding that tabletop rp imagination requires being able to escape life for a period of time.
So they found an simpler ruleset that didn't give all the same but atleast there were still swords and magic involved. Many evenings a player had to leave early, so they started playing some simpler games. Atleast they were still meeting and playing. Sometimes it was just a game of yatzee.
Now John plays a card game, not with his friends, but atleast it got pictures of dragons.
Originally posted by Zinzan No game does raiding better and a lot of players like raiding.
by "Raiding" you mean Simon says with huge text prompts flashed across your screen?
Heaps of games do raiding better but they are not as popular as wow. Why is wow popular? because its an easily accessible user friendly game, Which in turn gets lots of people asking their friends have you tried this "World of Warcraft" game?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Progress bar says jump to the left Progress bar says step to the right With your face on they keyboard You spam away for all the night But it's the screaming moron on vent That drives you insane Let's the raid boss again Let's do the boss raid again Let's do the raid boss again Let's do the raid boss again ...
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
While there isn't a *singular* reason people play - WoW short session play options are a key to mass appeal. Look at the most played online games in the world - they all nail short gameplay session options. LoL, Dota, etc...
This is largely why developers have moved away from sprawling virtual worlds MMOs that take 1000s of hours to play through.
Old school MMORPGs failed at short gameplay sessions pretty hard, they were massive time hogs - I remember playing EQ1 for at least 6 hours per weekday and 12+ on weekends when I raided actively. I don't have that kind of time anymore, the truth is even if I DID - I wouldn't do it, it's unhealthy.
You may want to cross out dota from your short session list. A typical game often takes between 40-60 min and if is a feeder roller coaster you will spend 40-60 min feeling aggravated and if you play one more game you are going into hardcore territory (about 2 hrs)
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Taken from battle.net forum poster Quinneth on WRA server
There you go people. WOW has grown up with its user-base.. its become more of a casual mmo for people who used to play hardcore that just don't have the time anymore, you know grown-ups with actual commitments..
One of the most specious arguments on these forums, people have grown up and don't have time to play anymore.
I started MMORPG's when I was 44, had a wife, 3 children, worked 10 hours a day, coached youth soccer and was a cub scout leader...and yet I found a way to play Lineage 1, DAOC, Shadowbane Lineage 2 and WOW at launch including raiding through AQ40.
Now, could I do everything each game had to offer? No, of course not, 6-12 hour raids/boss camps were out, (WOW's only took about 4 hours, and I managed to fit them in at the cost of losing some sleep)
So when people complain today about not having time I can only roll my eyes, they are no busier today than I was back then, and in fact, even today, working 12 hour days including many weekends restricts me from doing things like large fleet engagements in EVE, which I actually enjoy, but I don't let that hold me back, I do what I can, and not bemoan what I can't.
Last night I'm on TS with 2 guys who have 3 small children each, can hear the family in the background every time they key their mic's, yet they are playing EVE with us, running multiple accounts.
You can make the time, and the argument that you can't is entirely a figment of your imagination, you chose not to by wasting it on things such as sleep.
But its true, you can't do everything like perhaps you used to when you had more free time, you learn to adapt to the game, not expect the game to adapt to you.
Or...play different games of course.
The 6-12 hour raiding days are behind us friend. It was fun to get 40 dedicated people together and raid but now with full time jobs, kids and a life it is hard to sit down more than a few hours at a time. Some of my friends are still hardcore on FF14 but I am more of a casual now jumping between games trying to find some fun. Right now i am enjoying ark survival. It is a crafter's heaven...
My friends are a big part of why I've been with WoW for 10+ years, but an even bigger part (and something I require from almost all games I play, especially MMOs) is story and lore. WoW has a very rich lore and WoW has a good way of telling it. I might be the only one, but I loved the legendary quest story in MoP and WoD. Also WoW is very well polished and everything "works as intended" jk lol, but for reals I have found very little problems or bugs with WoW...I just wonder what they'll give me at 15 year anniversary or 20...Free trip to blizzcon? It's expensive to go every year, but the most fun I've ever had
Silly me I thought people played WoW because it was fun to them. I played wow and basically stopped when it stopped being fun to me, but I guess your argument that people play wow not because its fun but because its easy has some merit though possibly a bit insulting to its players.
Playing MMORPG's for "fun" is another specious argument on these forums, if you think of "fun" as something children do on a playground.
Many of us play for the sense of accomplishment, achievement, victory, for cool looking gear, or completing a huge list of achievements, or get to the top of a leaderboard, but definitely not for "fun".
Funny enough, i cant pursue all that if im not having ¨fun¨ in the game. I have friends who also play mmos to get those things, but i personally dont find these motivating to play. None of my characters in any mmo has any legendary epic looking gear, im probably outside the leaderboards, never felt good getting achievements for doing basically nothing worth achieving (congrats! you hit lvl 100 ding ding! pfffff meh lol), i think only victory against a boss (in GW2 without the trinity) made me feel good and that i accomplished a hard task. But thats just me. I only play a game if i find it fun.
I think that is the reason there is such an influx of MMO's that are coming out that allow players to play solo. MMO's have definitely gotten easier for the people who lead busy lives and can't dedicate a whole lot of time to a game.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
I have my own take on longevity and it does not pertain just to WOW.
It is called "investment".When gamer's invest a lot of time and have a lot of loot,they feel afraid to "let go".They might see another game but then they realize it will be the exact same journey all over again,grinding quests and attaining loot.SO they figure why bother going through that entire grind again when i already have that done in this game.
The best way to test my theory is erase every player and remove pvp and loot.That way players are not racing to be the best pvp and they are not racing to get the best loot.
I bet nobody finds the game FUN anymore,very few would rejoin and play it.My point is it is not about the GAME or the FUN but all about the rewards for playing a long time.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
what it comes down to is because a lot of people still enjoy WoW for very different reasons. Wether it be the community, the friends you made, may it be the crafting or the "look and feel" - it really doesn't matter.
Haven't played for quite a while now and i'm still happy - blizzard kinda threw me off the train face first with their expansions. not saying they are bad, but just not for me.
With that being said, what does it matter anyways?
To you, I guess it means nothing. To everyone that still play's or to people that are thinking of playing again it probably means something.
WoW has been around for a long time for a reason. Have you looked at the list of games coming out? There are so many now, most of which are not so great; or at the stats of the chances of what an MMO has for still being here in 1, 3, 5, or the remote possibility of 7 or ten years from now. Not many have that chance.
And love it or hate it, it is still the MMO that all others are judged by, because it is still the first with the staying power with a massive player base. IMO.
"I come back to WoW because I know so many people here, and the world feels so incredibly fleshed out and alive---and the biggest reason, for this server at least, is because random RP really does happen and I love that.
I don't have tons of time anymore. Back in Wrath and early Cataclysm on a tree and a priest, I had tons of time on my hands--I raided a few nights a week, I did arenas, I generally played the content of
....
I had 22 alts, 11 for each faction before WOD was released. As it looks now for the first time it looks I will stay with 4 alliance and 1 horde. Have enjoyed a lot also WOD but after barely 1 month I lost wish to login back. Usually this was happening after half year. And following various forums, WOD was big flop.
I have my own take on longevity and it does not pertain just to WOW.
It is called "investment".When gamer's invest a lot of time and have a lot of loot,they feel afraid to "let go".They might see another game but then they realize it will be the exact same journey all over again,grinding quests and attaining loot.SO they figure why bother going through that entire grind again when i already have that done in this game.
The best way to test my theory is erase every player and remove pvp and loot.That way players are not racing to be the best pvp and they are not racing to get the best loot.
I bet nobody finds the game FUN anymore,very few would rejoin and play it.My point is it is not about the GAME or the FUN but all about the rewards for playing a long time.
I am sure that "investment" is a reason that some people continue to play.
I also believe that Blizzard are about to test the theory with their stated intent of moving to yearly expansions. Consider if WoD had released 12 months after MoP - bringing the new level cap, new gear, garrisons instead of farms etc. Or the new xpac was to release in October with (presumably) new levels, gear, ships replacing garrisons or whatever. Not saying it will btw but if Blizzard are to release yearly expansions then at some point yearly has to mean ... yearly!
No timE to "savour" your achievements before the new treadmill has been rolled out. Just a thought.
I kind of see a pattern there and it is certainly not casual gaming. Sure casual gaming might be the reason why WoW grew so large but not so much why it kept them.
While people love to believe and even preach their favorite first MMO is special and superior and their tastes just happen to be superior like kids always do with their favorite band/show/team etc I think it's more than obviously just part of the big ol nostalgia feeling and confirmation bias.
What keeps these MMOs so easily at the top is the 'first time' phenomen no other MMO can repeat, 'personal investment' that will always keep the door open for that old 'one' MMO, 'nostalgia' blurring the (unbiased) memories and of course the good old fear and lazyness to move on as long as the rusty old car still runs.
FinalFantasy might be a bit different because of console gamer culture.
We can't simply say older games = lots of personal investment. Blizzard reported whenever it was that WoW had 100M+ registered accounts; so 93%+ of purchasers ditched their personal investments - at some point other.
Some players will have 10+ years invested but many - the majority? - may have less than a year. And of course there will be people who come back etc.
As I said above I do believe investment it is a factor but only one factor. Friends are another. And I also believe that content is as well.
And older games typically have more content and - if they have / are - making money are able to invest in new content. (Doesn't follow of course that content alone = huge and still current)
Collectively though maybe:
If you are attached and if there is stuff to do then <default> stay subscribed.
If you are subscribed and run out of stuff to do <decision required> possible unsub
If you have friends in game who are still doing stuff - that maybe you have done - stick around, hope for new patch etc.
And you can get a herd mentality. When the feeling grows that it is "the end" and over a relatively short time everyone goes. Been part of that twice; very strange feeling.
Comments
John was an hardcore tabletop roleplayer. He played long weekend sessions with his friends, and they let their imagination take them to many a place. They spend long hours painting miniture monsters and characters and had pouches of dice in all shapes and colors. John had posters, read fantasybooks, game rule books, and game master tools.. Yes indeed, he was really into it.
Then as it happens, it got harder to schedule whole weekends for game sessions, and they started playing an evening here and there. It got hard to keep up the full experience with life taking more and more of their energy, and feeding that tabletop rp imagination requires being able to escape life for a period of time.
So they found an simpler ruleset that didn't give all the same but atleast there were still swords and magic involved. Many evenings a player had to leave early, so they started playing some simpler games. Atleast they were still meeting and playing. Sometimes it was just a game of yatzee.
Now John plays a card game, not with his friends, but atleast it got pictures of dragons.
John still think he is a tabletop roleplayer.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
No game does raiding better and a lot of players like raiding.
No other mmorpg does Farmville clones better, a lot of people are hopelessly addicted to WoDville.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
by "Raiding" you mean Simon says with huge text prompts flashed across your screen?
Heaps of games do raiding better but they are not as popular as wow. Why is wow popular? because its an easily accessible user friendly game, Which in turn gets lots of people asking their friends have you tried this "World of Warcraft" game?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Not I !!!
Thankfully it's supposedly only a WoD thing. Please make crafting viable again.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Progress bar says jump to the left
Progress bar says step to the right
With your face on they keyboard
You spam away for all the night
But it's the screaming moron on vent
That drives you insane
Let's the raid boss again
Let's do the boss raid again
Let's do the raid boss again
Let's do the raid boss again
...
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
You may want to cross out dota from your short session list. A typical game often takes between 40-60 min and if is a feeder roller coaster you will spend 40-60 min feeling aggravated and if you play one more game you are going into hardcore territory (about 2 hrs)
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Funny enough, i cant pursue all that if im not having ¨fun¨ in the game. I have friends who also play mmos to get those things, but i personally dont find these motivating to play. None of my characters in any mmo has any legendary epic looking gear, im probably outside the leaderboards, never felt good getting achievements for doing basically nothing worth achieving (congrats! you hit lvl 100 ding ding! pfffff meh lol), i think only victory against a boss (in GW2 without the trinity) made me feel good and that i accomplished a hard task. But thats just me. I only play a game if i find it fun.
"WoW is easy for my life."
I think that is the reason there is such an influx of MMO's that are coming out that allow players to play solo. MMO's have definitely gotten easier for the people who lead busy lives and can't dedicate a whole lot of time to a game.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
I have my own take on longevity and it does not pertain just to WOW.
It is called "investment".When gamer's invest a lot of time and have a lot of loot,they feel afraid to "let go".They might see another game but then they realize it will be the exact same journey all over again,grinding quests and attaining loot.SO they figure why bother going through that entire grind again when i already have that done in this game.
The best way to test my theory is erase every player and remove pvp and loot.That way players are not racing to be the best pvp and they are not racing to get the best loot.
I bet nobody finds the game FUN anymore,very few would rejoin and play it.My point is it is not about the GAME or the FUN but all about the rewards for playing a long time.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
To you, I guess it means nothing. To everyone that still play's or to people that are thinking of playing again it probably means something.
WoW has been around for a long time for a reason. Have you looked at the list of games coming out? There are so many now, most of which are not so great; or at the stats of the chances of what an MMO has for still being here in 1, 3, 5, or the remote possibility of 7 or ten years from now. Not many have that chance.
And love it or hate it, it is still the MMO that all others are judged by, because it is still the first with the staying power with a massive player base. IMO.
I had 22 alts, 11 for each faction before WOD was released. As it looks now for the first time it looks I will stay with 4 alliance and 1 horde. Have enjoyed a lot also WOD but after barely 1 month I lost wish to login back. Usually this was happening after half year. And following various forums, WOD was big flop.
I am sure that "investment" is a reason that some people continue to play.
I also believe that Blizzard are about to test the theory with their stated intent of moving to yearly expansions. Consider if WoD had released 12 months after MoP - bringing the new level cap, new gear, garrisons instead of farms etc. Or the new xpac was to release in October with (presumably) new levels, gear, ships replacing garrisons or whatever. Not saying it will btw but if Blizzard are to release yearly expansions then at some point yearly has to mean ... yearly!
No timE to "savour" your achievements before the new treadmill has been rolled out. Just a thought.
We can't simply say older games = lots of personal investment. Blizzard reported whenever it was that WoW had 100M+ registered accounts; so 93%+ of purchasers ditched their personal investments - at some point other.
Some players will have 10+ years invested but many - the majority? - may have less than a year. And of course there will be people who come back etc.
As I said above I do believe investment it is a factor but only one factor. Friends are another. And I also believe that content is as well.
And older games typically have more content and - if they have / are - making money are able to invest in new content. (Doesn't follow of course that content alone = huge and still current)
Collectively though maybe: