Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm currently not playing any mmo(last was LORO RoR xpac/ SWTOR launch time frame. I don't see anything on the horizon either that even rises to the level of "Meh" for me. It seems the industry's ability to create, innovate, invest starts/stops on what they can copy from the existing(flooded) market, along with whatever 3rd party IP they use as a crutch to substitute for creativity. Yawn
I dont get excited over MMOs anymore....The hype outweighs the reality so much...Last game I got my hopes up for was the secret world, and that game turned out awful, at least for me.
Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm currently not playing any mmo(last was LORO RoR xpac/ SWTOR launch time frame. I don't see anything on the horizon either that even rises to the level of "Meh" for me. It seems the industry's ability to create, innovate, invest starts/stops on what they can copy from the existing(flooded) market, along with whatever 3rd party IP they use as a crutch to substitute for creativity. Yawn
Really?
Shards, Pantheon, Star citizen, Elite, Crowfall, Pathfinder and Camelot Unchanined all uses new mechanics. None of them have a huge budget like TOR but there is nothing wrong with the creativety part.
We havn't seen so many games trying out new mechanics since the early 2000s. As for the IPs, CU and Elite are made by the people who invented those mechanics so only Pathfinder on that list is trying to cash in on a famous IP.
Non-MMO? Have they announced how many players fight over their continents? From what I've seen it's rather Planetside-esque, and Planetside is certainly an MMO. But I haven't seen much and their FAQ sort of evades the question.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I agree with the OP. I used to love MMORPGs. Now I barely pay attention. Weak game after weak game has left me so jaded I don't even sign up for betas to the garbage anymore.
Over the years they've gone from being a great niche genre with unique gameplay (group heavy, challenging, dangerous) to being glorified single player games - with lame title after lame title coming out, over hyped, and ultimately flopping as the hype train of soloists finishes the single player portion of the game and moves on.
There is no lack of great single player games. What defined MMORPGs originally, and what they do best, is group-based PvE. They don't need PvP - at all. They don't need solo content. They don't need rails. Trying to be everything to everybody and going for wider/casual appeal for a genre that's never truly been casual is just coporate america chasing dollars and looking to make as much profit as possible (before the games flop).
I would also agree that sites like this doin't help because you can't have objectivity when writing about your advertisers, there's more hype than criticsm/investigation, and when you have writers who don't grasp the very core concept of the genre they write about, you get articles supporting the wrong things about the genre. Ie, casual soloists shouldn't be writing anything serious about a genre based on grouping and that's at its best when it's all about grouping.
Corporate america that funds MMORPGs *only* cares about profits but they *might* create different flavors of garbage if the press was in any way objective or critical. When bad MMORPG after bad MMORPG comes out hyped, gets good reviews - but manages to sink (to F2P or worse) within a few months - they're never inclined to change what they're doing. Why do games that ultimately fail get so much positive hype and reviews up front? Lack of decent investigative press and sites that just regurgitate marketing spew are a factor, IMO.
There are no MMORPGs worth discussing now, or in the known future - just more dookie coming down the plumbing. More attempts to be everything to everybody, with too much forgettable solo content that most players will blast thru - and move on - waiting for the next big thing. When you design your so-called MMORPG to be little more than a single player game that has a login, that's what you get - players who are gone in days/weeks.
The indie scene has done a lot of great things with off the wall games/styles for a lot of PC gaming but it's not likely to be able to bail out the MMORPG mess - MMORPGs just cost too much to make and require too many people (to do a game good enough to actually get anybody interested).
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
This is so freaking true, this website and many others hyped skyforge so much and now look at it 1 month or something later i dont see any posts about it and nobody is talking about the game, skyforge at the end of the year will probably just be a p2w cash cow.
This is what ruins this industry, websites that blindly hype games that are just bad and are only relevant for a month or 2.
This is so freaking true, this website and many others hyped skyforge so much and now look at it 1 month or something later i dont see any posts about it and nobody is talking about the game, skyforge at the end of the year will probably just be a p2w cash cow.
This is what ruins this industry, websites that blindly hype games that are just bad and are only relevant for a month or 2.
By no one talking about it do you mean constantly in the current forum activity on the front page? I personally have no real interest in the title, yet I can say with certainty it's being talked about quite a bit.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by BMBenderCan't speak for anyone else, but I'm currently not playing any mmo(last was LORO RoR xpac/ SWTOR launch time frame. I don't see anything on the horizon either that even rises to the level of "Meh" for me. It seems the industry's ability to create, innovate, invest starts/stops on what they can copy from the existing(flooded) market, along with whatever 3rd party IP they use as a crutch to substitute for creativity. Yawn
Really?
Shards, Pantheon, Star citizen, Elite, Crowfall, Pathfinder and Camelot Unchanined all uses new mechanics. None of them have a huge budget like TOR but there is nothing wrong with the creativety part.
We havn't seen so many games trying out new mechanics since the early 2000s. As for the IPs, CU and Elite are made by the people who invented those mechanics so only Pathfinder on that list is trying to cash in on a famous IP.
I say again yawn
EDIT to add: btw I don't consider Elite or SC mmo's although some people here do
With the risks so high, you are unlikely to find any publisher willing to fund development of a new AAA MMORPG that tries out new ideas. This is why we've had years of AAA clones competing against indie niche mmos.
What we need is either an extremely talented designer who can make a niche MMO on a small budget that is actually successful, in which case that designers ideas will start to be replicated throughout the genre, or we need a publisher willing to take a big risk.
Personally, I can't see either happening. I believe the best we can hope for is a "traditional" MMO done right, a nice sandbox / themepark hybrid somewhere between SWG pre-cu and WoW, no real new ideas (so a publisher will agree to it) but a solid core of the best features from both design philosophies. Accessible to the masses, but deep enough to promote long term committment. If this first step can be taken, and is successful, then perhaps publishers will again see the worth of MMOs and be willing to fund more exciting ideas in the future.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
I really tried to like gw2, I did play gw1 for a good 5/6 years, to this day nothing tops gw1 for me, I'd still be playing it if I didn't already do every piece of content in it a million times over. The thing about gw2 though is after a while you realise what it really is, A hello kitty ultra casual adventure game for small kids, It has no soul and is as shallow as a puddle.
I'm currently playing multiplayer mode in a game called 'project zomboid' very good game. The ones I'm sort of looking forward to and wish they would hurry up and release are Tree of Savior, Linage Eternal, Lost Ark, Albion Online, Peria Chronicles, Arpiel Online and Soul Worker.
This is so freaking true, this website and many others hyped skyforge so much and now look at it 1 month or something later i dont see any posts about it and nobody is talking about the game, skyforge at the end of the year will probably just be a p2w cash cow.
This is what ruins this industry, websites that blindly hype games that are just bad and are only relevant for a month or 2.
Ikr i played skyforge for about 2 hours before i uninstalled it , i found it to have 0 immersion at all everything from the monsters you kill to the spells you use just boring and lacked any creativity, i only tried it because of the hype and it was a waste of bandwidth and time it was just plain bad. shame really
With the risks so high, you are unlikely to find any publisher willing to fund development of a new AAA MMORPG that tries out new ideas. This is why we've had years of AAA clones competing against indie niche mmos.
What we need is either an extremely talented designer who can make a niche MMO on a small budget that is actually successful, in which case that designers ideas will start to be replicated throughout the genre, or we need a publisher willing to take a big risk.
Personally, I can't see either happening. I believe the best we can hope for is a "traditional" MMO done right, a nice sandbox / themepark hybrid somewhere between SWG pre-cu and WoW, no real new ideas (so a publisher will agree to it) but a solid core of the best features from both design philosophies. Accessible to the masses, but deep enough to promote long term committment. If this first step can be taken, and is successful, then perhaps publishers will again see the worth of MMOs and be willing to fund more exciting ideas in the future.
Everyone always says that they want new this and new that but its all BS what people want is the same but better , new games listen to the wrong people , they listen and do silly things like remove holy trinity, no pve raids , less spells on a action bar , faceroll content just so "everybody" can do it, when no one was stopping them previously catering to casuals on a scale that begs belief i mean look at the state of wow its astonishing that they can ruin a game so bad its almost like they want to destroy it. Im playing Tera at the moment and they have done the same to that game and made it super faceroll until 60 atleast i mean why ? because kids dont want to be challenged early game? they will quit before they have them hooked? i dont think so, but they listen to the wrong people and make these stupid changes.
All new games these days are just casual faceroll noob fests , i think FFxiv arr is one of the only games that offers a challenge but i havent played that in a while so i could be wrong.
I want a wow clone but done better like how wow was originally , utilizing CC in dungeons , bosses that take longer than5 mins to kill, having to use team work to get things done and not just aoe steam roll everything, a game that when you have good gear you stand out, liek the old days standing in OG with ya t2 meant you was pro unlike now because "everybody" can do it
wow is done as far as im concerned there is no saving it without a massive overhaul , unless they made vannila servers im not interested , they rehash everything anyway with just a different colour so re-doing the old stuff again with the old talent systems and spells i would find extremely fun after all its been over a decade, back then i was a complete noob tbh lol used to be a clicker for first like 3 years of playing wow id like to do all the old dungeons and raids with all the skills ive developed since then, i really miss the old communities from back in the day i was in a guild called "Project Phantom" and us and a fellow guild named "Rush" were top guilds on server these days you don't care or even know who's doing what progression wise that tight knit community is just gone, that's what i miss the most.
I remember this guy called Bagdush who used to ninja all the time and he got famous for it on the server (Bloodfeather EU) so knowone wanted to group with him and know one wanted him in their guilds because we all communicated together.
isnt it wierd that the more easy a game gets, the more people loose interest. never feed the customer what he wants in a video game. Wow was insane popular back in the day and only a small smigit of the game pop actually played the last boss in the hardest dungeon. i stoped playing before mist of pandara and i played since wow 1
I really don't think that's true. Some decent MMOs have only been able to survive as free to play games. It's not always the fault of the game; sometimes it's just that the market conditions aren't right to make a game commercially viable. Cash shops allowed a lot of games to keep running longer than they could have otherwise. And while some of them were terrible games that hurt the industry, others were good games that had the potential to inspire other MMOs to take ideas and run in new directions and create new experiences that can thrive and succeed and ultimately be commercially viable under the right market conditions.
SWtOR was the last game I was excited for and that was a crushing disappointment (for me anyway). I just accepted that the industry doesn't make a MMORPG game that I like. Thanks to Steam I have a large collection of other types of game that I do still enjoy.
SWtOR was the last game I was excited for and that was a crushing disappointment (for me anyway). I just accepted that the industry doesn't make a MMORPG game that I like. Thanks to Steam I have a large collection of other types of game that I do still enjoy.
That's a very reasonable, healthy attitude. No entitlement. No whining. Just "It was good while it lasted."
Originally posted by BMBenderCan't speak for anyone else, but I'm currently not playing any mmo(last was LORO RoR xpac/ SWTOR launch time frame. I don't see anything on the horizon either that even rises to the level of "Meh" for me. It seems the industry's ability to create, innovate, invest starts/stops on what they can copy from the existing(flooded) market, along with whatever 3rd party IP they use as a crutch to substitute for creativity. Yawn
Really?
Shards, Pantheon, Star citizen, Elite, Crowfall, Pathfinder and Camelot Unchanined all uses new mechanics. None of them have a huge budget like TOR but there is nothing wrong with the creativety part.
We havn't seen so many games trying out new mechanics since the early 2000s. As for the IPs, CU and Elite are made by the people who invented those mechanics so only Pathfinder on that list is trying to cash in on a famous IP.
I say again yawn
EDIT to add: btw I don't consider Elite or SC mmo's although some people here do
+1
Practically nothing worth attention is going on in the MMORPG space.
You have a bunch of underfunded indie games that will either not release in the next 5-6 years at their current rates of development, or get pushed out in half finished shape with dated graphics and little polish (and then fail) or are not real MMOs at all.
So, until there is something worth "the hype" this gaming sector is more or less dead to me.
Fortunately, there have been and continue to be quite a few good/great cRPGs and other games on the horizon to scratch my gaming itch.
MMORPGs as a gaming sector, are about dead (and you know this because many of the long time major players have closed or shifted out of the business). All that is left is underfunded indie crap and Asian imports.
Yes they did for several reasons.Devs just rush out fast games,everyday a game is not out is money not brought in,so they rush a shallow shell of a game.What they rely on is if it fails,so what lose little,they can try 5-10x for the a fraction of the cost it would take to make a really good triple A game.Then on the flipside if they can get enough interest which isn't hard when you look at some of the games people have been buying,they just start adding in cash shop grabs.
Also cash shops become the focal point of the game instead of the game itself,example SC so far is all about ship purchases.The fact they could raise so much money off of ONLY ships really shows how easy it is to make money not delivering anything,just promises.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Yes they did for several reasons.Devs just rush out fast games,everyday a game is not out is money not brought in,so they rush a shallow shell of a game.What they rely on is if it fails,so what lose little,they can try 5-10x for the a fraction of the cost it would take to make a really good triple A game.Then on the flipside if they can get enough interest which isn't hard when you look at some of the games people have been buying,they just start adding in cash shop grabs.
Also cash shops become the focal point of the game instead of the game itself,example SC so far is all about ship purchases.The fact they could raise so much money off of ONLY ships really shows how easy it is to make money not delivering anything,just promises.
Devs rushing a game out is the new norm. That's not a factor related to MMOs or cash shops or free to play at all. That's just the new way it is. You can point to a random game and say, "What about X? It was in development for so many years!" And for every game, you can also find 10 that were rushed out.
All games focus on what makes money. The reason Call of Duty focuses on multiplayer development: Most people buy it for multiplayer. Whatever feature or features will offer the best return on investment is where the money goes. I won't deny that there are developers lazier with their cash shop grabs than others, but at least for free to play games a cheap cash shop is indicative of the fact that every aspect of the game was cheap. But some developers actually spend a lot of time putting a lot of work into their cash shop items. Marvel Heroes comes to mind with their heroes/team-ups/costumes. A lot of work goes into that stuff, and they put out some high quality stuff in their cash shop. I don't pay for that stuff begrudgingly, because they have to make money if they're going to keep offering that stuff. If the money dries up, the development dries up.
Comments
Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm currently not playing any mmo(last was LORO RoR xpac/ SWTOR launch time frame. I don't see anything on the horizon either that even rises to the level of "Meh" for me. It seems the industry's ability to create, innovate, invest starts/stops on what they can copy from the existing(flooded) market, along with whatever 3rd party IP they use as a crutch to substitute for creativity. Yawn
Really?
Shards, Pantheon, Star citizen, Elite, Crowfall, Pathfinder and Camelot Unchanined all uses new mechanics. None of them have a huge budget like TOR but there is nothing wrong with the creativety part.
We havn't seen so many games trying out new mechanics since the early 2000s. As for the IPs, CU and Elite are made by the people who invented those mechanics so only Pathfinder on that list is trying to cash in on a famous IP.
Non-MMO? Have they announced how many players fight over their continents? From what I've seen it's rather Planetside-esque, and Planetside is certainly an MMO. But I haven't seen much and their FAQ sort of evades the question.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I agree with the OP. I used to love MMORPGs. Now I barely pay attention. Weak game after weak game has left me so jaded I don't even sign up for betas to the garbage anymore.
Over the years they've gone from being a great niche genre with unique gameplay (group heavy, challenging, dangerous) to being glorified single player games - with lame title after lame title coming out, over hyped, and ultimately flopping as the hype train of soloists finishes the single player portion of the game and moves on.
There is no lack of great single player games. What defined MMORPGs originally, and what they do best, is group-based PvE. They don't need PvP - at all. They don't need solo content. They don't need rails. Trying to be everything to everybody and going for wider/casual appeal for a genre that's never truly been casual is just coporate america chasing dollars and looking to make as much profit as possible (before the games flop).
I would also agree that sites like this doin't help because you can't have objectivity when writing about your advertisers, there's more hype than criticsm/investigation, and when you have writers who don't grasp the very core concept of the genre they write about, you get articles supporting the wrong things about the genre. Ie, casual soloists shouldn't be writing anything serious about a genre based on grouping and that's at its best when it's all about grouping.
Corporate america that funds MMORPGs *only* cares about profits but they *might* create different flavors of garbage if the press was in any way objective or critical. When bad MMORPG after bad MMORPG comes out hyped, gets good reviews - but manages to sink (to F2P or worse) within a few months - they're never inclined to change what they're doing. Why do games that ultimately fail get so much positive hype and reviews up front? Lack of decent investigative press and sites that just regurgitate marketing spew are a factor, IMO.
There are no MMORPGs worth discussing now, or in the known future - just more dookie coming down the plumbing. More attempts to be everything to everybody, with too much forgettable solo content that most players will blast thru - and move on - waiting for the next big thing. When you design your so-called MMORPG to be little more than a single player game that has a login, that's what you get - players who are gone in days/weeks.
The indie scene has done a lot of great things with off the wall games/styles for a lot of PC gaming but it's not likely to be able to bail out the MMORPG mess - MMORPGs just cost too much to make and require too many people (to do a game good enough to actually get anybody interested).
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
This is so freaking true, this website and many others hyped skyforge so much and now look at it 1 month or something later i dont see any posts about it and nobody is talking about the game, skyforge at the end of the year will probably just be a p2w cash cow.
This is what ruins this industry, websites that blindly hype games that are just bad and are only relevant for a month or 2.
By no one talking about it do you mean constantly in the current forum activity on the front page? I personally have no real interest in the title, yet I can say with certainty it's being talked about quite a bit.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I say again yawn
EDIT to add: btw I don't consider Elite or SC mmo's although some people here do
MMOs are very expensive to make.
New ideas are risky
With the risks so high, you are unlikely to find any publisher willing to fund development of a new AAA MMORPG that tries out new ideas. This is why we've had years of AAA clones competing against indie niche mmos.
What we need is either an extremely talented designer who can make a niche MMO on a small budget that is actually successful, in which case that designers ideas will start to be replicated throughout the genre, or we need a publisher willing to take a big risk.
Personally, I can't see either happening. I believe the best we can hope for is a "traditional" MMO done right, a nice sandbox / themepark hybrid somewhere between SWG pre-cu and WoW, no real new ideas (so a publisher will agree to it) but a solid core of the best features from both design philosophies. Accessible to the masses, but deep enough to promote long term committment. If this first step can be taken, and is successful, then perhaps publishers will again see the worth of MMOs and be willing to fund more exciting ideas in the future.
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before.
Edgar Allan Poe
I really tried to like gw2, I did play gw1 for a good 5/6 years, to this day nothing tops gw1 for me, I'd still be playing it if I didn't already do every piece of content in it a million times over. The thing about gw2 though is after a while you realise what it really is, A hello kitty ultra casual adventure game for small kids, It has no soul and is as shallow as a puddle.
I'm currently playing multiplayer mode in a game called 'project zomboid' very good game. The ones I'm sort of looking forward to and wish they would hurry up and release are Tree of Savior, Linage Eternal, Lost Ark, Albion Online, Peria Chronicles, Arpiel Online and Soul Worker.
Ikr i played skyforge for about 2 hours before i uninstalled it , i found it to have 0 immersion at all everything from the monsters you kill to the spells you use just boring and lacked any creativity, i only tried it because of the hype and it was a waste of bandwidth and time it was just plain bad. shame really
Everyone always says that they want new this and new that but its all BS what people want is the same but better , new games listen to the wrong people , they listen and do silly things like remove holy trinity, no pve raids , less spells on a action bar , faceroll content just so "everybody" can do it, when no one was stopping them previously catering to casuals on a scale that begs belief i mean look at the state of wow its astonishing that they can ruin a game so bad its almost like they want to destroy it. Im playing Tera at the moment and they have done the same to that game and made it super faceroll until 60 atleast i mean why ? because kids dont want to be challenged early game? they will quit before they have them hooked? i dont think so, but they listen to the wrong people and make these stupid changes.
All new games these days are just casual faceroll noob fests , i think FFxiv arr is one of the only games that offers a challenge but i havent played that in a while so i could be wrong.
I want a wow clone but done better like how wow was originally , utilizing CC in dungeons , bosses that take longer than5 mins to kill, having to use team work to get things done and not just aoe steam roll everything, a game that when you have good gear you stand out, liek the old days standing in OG with ya t2 meant you was pro unlike now because "everybody" can do it
so, lets face it.
the WoW crowd is losing interest
and by that i mean those, that started their "pro mmo" carreer with WoW.
good, maybe we can go back to those who loved the genre anyway, no matter if there were things in the games we didn't like or not.
maybe we can go back to PLAYING games, instead of BITCHING about them (which seems to be the main focus for most lately).
it used to be simple, we either liked games or not, we either played em, or not. if the devs asked for opinions, we were glad to give em.
but now it's "i will bitch till they make the game the way I LIKE IT!" and then they wonder why games get toned down to their basics.
see you in a better tomorrow!
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
wow is done as far as im concerned there is no saving it without a massive overhaul , unless they made vannila servers im not interested , they rehash everything anyway with just a different colour so re-doing the old stuff again with the old talent systems and spells i would find extremely fun after all its been over a decade, back then i was a complete noob tbh lol used to be a clicker for first like 3 years of playing wow id like to do all the old dungeons and raids with all the skills ive developed since then, i really miss the old communities from back in the day i was in a guild called "Project Phantom" and us and a fellow guild named "Rush" were top guilds on server these days you don't care or even know who's doing what progression wise that tight knit community is just gone, that's what i miss the most.
I remember this guy called Bagdush who used to ninja all the time and he got famous for it on the server (Bloodfeather EU) so knowone wanted to group with him and know one wanted him in their guilds because we all communicated together.
i miss the old days
i want that again
Practically nothing worth attention is going on in the MMORPG space.
You have a bunch of underfunded indie games that will either not release in the next 5-6 years at their current rates of development, or get pushed out in half finished shape with dated graphics and little polish (and then fail) or are not real MMOs at all.
So, until there is something worth "the hype" this gaming sector is more or less dead to me.
Fortunately, there have been and continue to be quite a few good/great cRPGs and other games on the horizon to scratch my gaming itch.
MMORPGs as a gaming sector, are about dead (and you know this because many of the long time major players have closed or shifted out of the business). All that is left is underfunded indie crap and Asian imports.
Also cash shops become the focal point of the game instead of the game itself,example SC so far is all about ship purchases.The fact they could raise so much money off of ONLY ships really shows how easy it is to make money not delivering anything,just promises.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
All games focus on what makes money. The reason Call of Duty focuses on multiplayer development: Most people buy it for multiplayer. Whatever feature or features will offer the best return on investment is where the money goes. I won't deny that there are developers lazier with their cash shop grabs than others, but at least for free to play games a cheap cash shop is indicative of the fact that every aspect of the game was cheap. But some developers actually spend a lot of time putting a lot of work into their cash shop items. Marvel Heroes comes to mind with their heroes/team-ups/costumes. A lot of work goes into that stuff, and they put out some high quality stuff in their cash shop. I don't pay for that stuff begrudgingly, because they have to make money if they're going to keep offering that stuff. If the money dries up, the development dries up.
On the bright side, there are tons of other fun online (or not online) games. It is not like we are running out of entertainment any time soon.