Originally posted by Ecoces 5.6 million for a 10 year old game when most other MMOs can barely scratch the .6 million. eh not bad
Definitely not too shabby. However, if I was still a subscriber and hoped to continue playing for some time, I'd be more than a wee bit concerned with how quickly that huge a chunk of the playerbase had decided to say adios.
That's still a shit tonne of players, though.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Good talk about all you want, its a free country. Its still redundant at this point to talk about this same shit every year and if you are going to talk it.. use actual facts, numbers and information.. which you prob dont have if you arent part of the staff that actually attends the meetings. People are making up numbers off of assumptions about what they heard. Again. Internet culture..so nature of the beast I guess.
What fake numbers?
ok are you part of the Blizzard Staff? If not you prob don't have accurate numbers. EVEN if you DO.. the numbers dont make a diff to the grand picture. WoW is still the top mmo in the west, also one of the most successful media products ever. What im trying to tell you people is to appreciate that more..celebrate that shit more. Stop worrying so much about when and HOW it's going to fall. Its crazy its like people can't wait to see it fail..10+ years now.
BTW That little chart you guys are passing around.. Im not seeing it as being official from Blizz more like somebody made that to prove what they are trying to say but it's not accurate. (If Im wrong prove the source came from Blizzard not a blogger or journo)
Again assumptions by people who werent in the boardroom. Here is a better idea of what's what straight from the investors.
Originally posted by killion81 Only 5.6 million...
Exactly. The MMO is barely over a decade old and they're down to 5.6 million? FAIL!!!!
World of Warcraft came out at a time when the numbers showed a successful MMO would be able to do a five-year run and cap out at about 250,000 subs. It kicked almost every record to the curb and is still sitting at millions more than ten years later. Any dev in the industry would kill to be in a position where they're game "plummeted" to a meager 5.6 million subs.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Instead of trying to point out every single thing you can about it.. why not Celebrate it, because when it's gone, you same people will be saying "things arent like when WOW was here, they were constantly trying to innovate mmos blah blah blah"
Internet culture got excited but needs to calm down.
Edit: posted here cause 2 threads going on about this..
The point of the news is the drastic drop in subs in only 10 months since WoD's launch. We're talking half a million subscriptions lost in just 10 months. This is a much more dramatic decline that has been reflected in the past during the cycle you mention.
Question: Who made that chart? Did blizzard personally send you that or is that somebody's "estimate" of what they think is going on or is it factual?
We have to be factual when talking about numbers. Secondly like I said, why does it matter. It makes no sense to me at all to mention WOW's losses when they are still the king of western mmos. The loss didnt change anything and thats if its true. You guys are talking like you were in the boardroom meeting with blizz- activ. Yes we know people quit but we don't know the exact number and to top it off any other game would kill to have even a 5% of what wow had in the last 10 months. Again I just dont see how this is being reported every year like its new. This has been going on for 10 or more years.
Its a cycle like I said and tbh im sick of it. Find something else to discuss guys. Nobody cares that the old rich man lost a couple million dollars..even if its true he is a multibillionaire that created a product(s) that LOTS of people still use/need.
Celebrate his accomplishment not everytime he loses or gains money.. money is the smallest thing in the grand picture of his(wow) legacy.
Really? You think that these numbers are "estimates" and "guesses"? All anyone has to do is visit the Activision-Blizzard Investor Relations page to view, download, print, examine, analyze and see for themselves the numbers that are required to be released to investors on a quarterly and yearly basis.
For what it's worth, I am playing WoW and on a fly while reading these incredible posts of yours. I am beyond amazed. I love WoW. I do not want to see it die and I am not calling for that, nor is anyone else...well, maybe a couple...in this thread.
The NEWS is that WoW has lost half its playerbase in under a year. Whether you like it or not, that is huge.
Originally posted by NoxiousBass Hum, no wonder Blizzard is going to announce the next expansion so early. Panic mode?
Haven't they traditionally announced a new expac a year or more before it releases? Haven't they also said for a long time that they would like to have releases on a yearly basis? I can understand you are so happy about this news.
Happy? And why is that? I just don´t remember an Xpac (WoD) having such a short cycle and announcing another expansion when it´s less than a year in. If the subs didn't´t drop so drastically in a short period of time, I doubt that Blizz would even bother to announce a new expansion at gamescon (think that´s the name of the event).
And, just for the record, I really love WoW, and I just hope that Blizzard invests its time and money properly with this franchise.
There were rumors before WoD came out that WoD was mostly a stop-gap expansion. That the xpack they had been working on wasn't going to be ready for a bit and decided to slap together something fairly quickly to boost sales, sub numbers and keep the long time fans happier. No idea how true this is, as it turns out, tons of rumors about WoW over the years have turned out to be true in some facets.
Hence, whatever they are announcing at Gamescom could be something that they have been working on for quite awhile and could be something fairly sizable. I do feel that announcing it at Gamescom could be a tourniquet of sorts, as they have made major announcements at Blizzcon historically. Could also be that the next xpack is going to come out before the end of the year as a major surprise to everyone.
Of course, it could all be just the same crap that we've now seen for a few years.
I played WoW for many years and enjoyed a ton of time there, but I really feel like I have been burned with MoP and WoD now. Cata to a lesser degree as I did play through the entire xpack cycle and did raid all the way through. Blizzard still places far too much focus on raiding as their endgame though. GW2, for all of it's faults, does have a pretty good open world PvE system where I feel like I can be active, have fun and actually be rewarded for my time. Raiding is a bit of a crap shoot in WoW where you can go an entire raid cycle and not get the item you really want/need.
Sadly, I think it's way too late for WoW. I don't feel like Blizzard has the balls to really make major changes anymore and want to maintain the status quo. Now that they are making money via Hearthstone and HotS and most likely will with Overwatch, the focus of the company will be placed on those three titles. The staple franchies of WarCraft, StarCraft and Diablo are suffering for it.
I will look and see what is presented, but it's going to be with a more skeptical eye. There are far too many other games coming out that I know I will enjoy.
The problem here is that with the loss of subscribers and thus the loss of subscription money Blizzard will step up with their cashshop.
More insta gratification items, fluff gear, free characters, and maybe even tiered items in time to make up for that loss in money.
Not something I personally would be looking out for, unless of course those players that are into buying from their shops without playing for it.
Maybe, but it would be a stupid move that would make things even worse.
Instead they need to cough up some money and improve the game. Get rid of stupid timesinks like garrisons and make a huge expansion. Implement full mega server technology. Maybe adding some dynamic events ala GW2, not too many but some to take some of the pressure of the quests.
Earlier have Wow reacted quickly when other games add new stuff, the battlegrounds came shortly after Guildwars released as example, phising were added after LOTRO and so on. Of course have they tried to implement their own features like garrisons and the idea wasn't bad but the implementation sucked.
If they want to earn more money again, they need to invest in the game. if they continue using it as a milk cow they will themeselves finally have created the Wow killer people have talked about for many years, it just wont be another game but Activisions own short sightness.
Originally posted by Ecoces 5.6 million for a 10 year old game when most other MMOs can barely scratch the .6 million. eh not bad
Definitely not too shabby. However, if I was still a subscriber and hoped to continue playing for some time, I'd be more than a wee bit concerned with how quickly that huge a chunk of the playerbase had decided to say adios.
That's still a shit tonne of players, though.
More than that the shocking part is that the WoW token didn't stem the tide at all. Not only did a huge chunk of players leave, a huge chunk of players couldn't even be bothered to farm gold to stay subscribed.
Just how bad would things be without the WoW Token?
Tag me what you want. I dont even play wow anymore..so im not trying to defend shit about their xpacs or none of that. I have no opinion their latest xpacs. It is what it is.
what Im saying is it dosent matter if -I- or anybody else wants to quit, WoW is still going to be here and they will always have a dedicated couple million of people playing at any moment. Its just the nature of the beast they created. They are going to lose lots and gain lots its a cycle. Its going to be this way until they shut it off. No need to report every year when they have losses. Its not like you havent seen it before with this game in particular.
I don't think you understand mmorpgs like ESO and GW2 may have more players in the west than WoW right now. No mmorpg has surpassed wow for over 10 years.
Originally posted by killion81 Only 5.6 million...
Exactly. The MMO is barely over a decade old and they're down to 5.6 million? FAIL!!!!
World of Warcraft came out at a time when the numbers showed a successful MMO would be able to do a five-year run and cap out at about 250,000 subs. It kicked almost every record to the curb and is still sitting at millions more than ten years later. Any dev in the industry would kill to be in a position where they're game "plummeted" to a meager 5.6 million subs.
The current population isn't relevant for this. It's a very large drop that happened quite fast. That's a large chunk of players that fell off. Even if in a game that had 200k and suddenly lost close to 100k subscriber in such a short amount of time it would be worrying.
I'm not saying World of Warcraft is dead, or even close to it. I don't think anyone is disputing that WoW remains the king. It doesn't take away from the fact that they just lost a very significant portion of their population though.
Not even the offer of playing for free, nor the poor 6.2 patch (with the quarter ending a week after the patch, thus any who came back would've been there for at least three weeks thereafter) could prevent the total from rising up to nearly 5,000,000 subscriptions lost in just under six months.
WoD isn't worth the subscription, much less the gold it takes to buy game time. So many people just don't care anymore, as the support of this expansion has been abysmal. Though I'd also say that games such as FFXIV, ESO and SWTOR and their recent, frequent updates have finally managed to lure quite a bit of people away. Granted, FFXIV had always given very meaty updates every 3 months, and SWTOR is kicking butt with their new announcements of storyline. Even Wildstar will soon get a surge of players soon enough when it goes free.
The current -- unreliable -- estimate of east vs west subscription is about 80% east at the moment -- as it's easy to count such as a sub so long as they log in for one minute, as they don't purchases 30 days and can log in at any time for an hourly cost. Though that's just from what I'm hearing from various people -- only one of whom I hold any really trust in as a source. Prior to the nearly 5,000,000 lost, there were around 3,500,000 estimated western subs -- with 1.7 being from U.S. and 1.6 being from Europe (this may have been the figure prior to the 10 million announcement that WoD brought, as I'm having trouble finding my notes from around that time. Typically it has been fairly even with east vs. west subs until the last year).
I really need to get more organized and find most of these notes and their sources.
Yo for real.. why do all these numbers matter so much to you? Where are you getting your numbers from? the CEO? Stop making reports on estimates. Nobody knows the exact numbers of what they are gaining or losing be it subs or $$.
Again why do the numbers matter. Either you play or you dont play their games. Blizzard Activision isnt hurting they are still leading the race in the mmo genre by far so whats the point of talking numbers? Lets do all this bring up numbers shit when WOW goes under 1 Million and Other MMOs start to take over their postion.. until that happens its like saying The Chicago Bulls kept winning the championship because they had MJ.. nobody cares. We know who MJ is. Lets talk about what they did when MJ left and they started losing. To discuss numbers while they are winning is futile.. they are still winning.
Blizzard Activision's MJ is WOW. They arent losing nothing anytime soon as far as mmo's are concerned. They are making way too much money off wow to close it down anytime soon so keep coming up with all these magical numbers and "estimates" out of thin air like you people tend to do around this time of the year. Again.. Internet Culture.
Someone said earlier that we're witnessing History. That we should be happy for such. This is true, in a way. Though history needs to be documented. News sites like these need to write their own stories so that we have multiple sources. "Witnessing History" just means people are bound to talk about it. Just because it may offend others since it's no longer as good as it once been, or people think someone is beating a dead horse, doesn't mean we magically stop talking about it. Reporting on it. There are so many things about our own history that are left to theory because there are limited texts, or a single historian was paid to write up a family's history. Which oft read to exaggeration. With no counter to such claims, because nobody cared enough to write on it, and the skill itself was in fact a skill. How people felt (or in this case, feel) during these times is incredibly important -- how they react. It gives insight to culture of man during this. It is a reason why the U.S. government is keeping copies of every single tweet made by a U.S. citizen and storing it into historical reserves for future generation. How we learned and adapted to the internet, how we react to things that happen. How history is formed. This is also human science, the workings of our brains during these times of technological advancements. In this case: How did people feel about this? What was the response? And, if they don't fix the leak, how did they fail in preventing or easing the loss?
People could sugar coat it all they want. "AMAZING GAME ONLY LOSES 5,000,000 SUBS, STILL HAS 5,000,000. BEST EVER." Valuable notes from a different perspective. Yet still a piece to the puzzle that would form history. As it fits in contrast to the line of people making fun of it -- or simply stating what they've learned -- that the game has lost 5,000,000 subs in so short of time, and that that's bad no matter how you look at it. Can this be disputed? Sure, anyone can dispute anything. But facts do not lie -- and lies are stronger than facts (when repeated enough, or there isn't enough sources to the contrary). I aim to signify when facts are not facts such as putting "UNRELIABLE" when I hit a speculative portion of my own response or writing -- to talk about something, as this is news. News of History. Now, if you would argue as to why anyone would care for the rambling or speculation parts of my posts, then you would have something. I don't know why -- but people enjoy speculating. Or trying to learn what other people think as opposed to sticking to their own thoughts and placing them in stone.
The whole argument of "either you play or do not play" is (in my opinion) incredibly simple minded and ignores so many things. Then to actually state when a good time to talk numbers (by naming a number, such as one million) shows a sense of hypocrisy -- if it's not okay to talk numbers now, it should never be okay. After all, "you either play or you don't", right? Indeed, there were many people saying "Let's talk numbers when it reaches 5.5 million -- that's when we know they're in trouble" when people were talking about the 3,000,000 loss drop that took it to 7.1. When does it end? The answer (in my opinion), is that these people just fool themselves into thinking they're not in the whole "internet culture" because they're against a certain aspect that they've shown substantial hypocrisy towards. Always another condition for them before it's okay to talk of something. Always taking things the wrong way. Putting too much thought into casual thought. Attempting to chastise others for human nature, for speaking of living history. But how does living history exist? In the present -- and it only truly becomes memorable history if people speak of it.
So why does history matter to people? Why does something that's big enough to become history matter? Entertainment. Intrigue. If someone is genuinely interested in numbers -- whether it be in general, or part of his job or past hobby. How dare someone even insinuate that this is wrong? Tell others that they should wait? Make up their own rules of numbers, when they already said that numbers don't matter? My friend, you need take a look in the mirror and ask yourself what internet culture is. People are all different, and don't adhere to any one person's thoughts. People have grown up in different cultures. The internet has, indeed formed its own under the guise of being anonymous.
I can assure you that -- for many people -- such simple thoughts of "it's either black or white" do not hold ground. To even think to try and hold others to such -- to preach them in it -- is (and in my opinion) potentially hazardous thinking to otherwise free thinkers who analyze and converse. Simple discussion may very well not be scholarly, but it's important to the bigger picture. New sites print more professional articles -- that's what they're for. But if you're afraid -- or despise -- the so called "internet culture" (which, if you're a student of history, you would know that what displayed here is not internet culture, but rather human nature that has a new canvas to spread gossip and rumors as they always have), then why do you, yourself, read forum posters? Why do you even care, as you ask why they care? You're free to dispute anything, to say anything, but doesn't it all seem a little odd considering what you've been writing?
Originally posted by gervaise1
Tokens:
No specific mention of how they have accounted for tokens - subscriber definition stays the same etc. however there are some additional details in the SEC filing:
Revenue from all WoW sources: $157M.
Deferred revenue: minus $64M
$157M equates to 3.48M @ $15 which compares to 6M @ $15 last quarter. The 2.52M drop being bigger than the headline 1.5M drop - suggesting that more "high value" subscribers have been lost. This despite a token subscriber being - essentially - $20.
However:
The deferred revenue figure is negative - usually this value is positive. If people take out a 3 month sub running June to august say then Blizzard would book the June "$15" with the $30 for July and August being deferred to the next quarter. The negative value could be the result of claiming all token revenue this quarter and deferring the service until next quarter - basically Blizzard "owe" $64M of subscription. $64M is about 4.2M months or 1.4M quarterly subscribers @ ;$15. It might not be of course - maybe it is an annual royalty payment.
However if it is due to tokens then 1.4M people were able to purchase tokens extending into at least Q3; the number in Q2 could have been higher of course and - since the deferred number is usually positive - maybe higher still.
Blizzard did reassure investors that they had released WoW's largest ever conmtent patch and that this has stemmed the loss of subscriptions.
Seriously? They don't believe that a lot of people stayed subscribed for the patch and - following its reception subs will plummet further as Suzie Ford has - and I agree - take a bigger fall come the Q3 number.
According to MMO-Champion, tokens were included. There was a tweet by a Blizzard employee some time ago saying that "Tokens did not have a profound impact on subscription numbers". How it was included? Likely the same way any subscription is. One account = one subscription if it has game time (excluding free accounts). Though this is a presumption on my part.
It begs further investigation as to how a game can still lose 1,500,000 subscribers even with 6.2 releases days prior to the end of the quarter and offering people a chance to play for free.
This is important to know for Blizzard, so that they can make preparations to help prevent further loss (or acquire more players).
As a whole, I agree that there will be a fall in Q3 unless they come up with something spectacular at Gamescon. Or they manage to get the beta out ASAP and release the new expansion before then.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Good talk about all you want, its a free country. Its still redundant at this point to talk about this same shit every year and if you are going to talk it.. use actual facts, numbers and information.. which you prob dont have if you arent part of the staff that actually attends the meetings. People are making up numbers off of assumptions about what they heard. Again. Internet culture..so nature of the beast I guess.
Blizzard Entertainment had the largest online player community in its history, with Q2 MAUsB up 50% year-over-year. ThoughWorld of Warcraft® ended the quarter at 5.6 million subscribersC, Blizzard revenues are up year-over-year based on strong performance across the expanding Blizzard portfolio. On June 23, 2015, Blizzard Entertainment released, Fury of Hellfire, one of the largest non-expansion content updates to date for World of Warcraft.Thisnew content helped stabilize the subscriber number towards the end of the quarter. World of Warcraft remains the No. 1 subscription?based MMORPG in the world.
That is actual facts from Blizzard themselves.
Where does it say they "Plummet to 5.6 M"
I didnt see that anywhere actually. They simply said we finished at 5.6 million. Did they say we started at 20M this year and fell to 5.6M? If they did please advise.
read my last post. Also read the last sentence of your stanza. Still NO. 1 so what the hell does it matter. Why is this news when it happens almost every single year.. people act like they dont know the cycle of this game by now. Like I said its redundant.
BTW 5.6 Million is incredible for any MMO to have.. esp a decade old one. Again what's the discussion here? What? Somebody made a MMO that has 10M subs or something?
I just dont really see the point of trying to make this a thing every year but again internet gonna internet.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Good talk about all you want, its a free country. Its still redundant at this point to talk about this same shit every year and if you are going to talk it.. use actual facts, numbers and information.. which you prob dont have if you arent part of the staff that actually attends the meetings. People are making up numbers off of assumptions about what they heard. Again. Internet culture..so nature of the beast I guess.
What fake numbers?
ok are you part of the Blizzard Staff? If not you prob don't have accurate numbers. EVEN if you DO.. the numbers dont make a diff to the grand picture. WoW is still the top mmo in the west, also one of the most successful media products ever. What im trying to tell you people is to appreciate that more..celebrate that shit more. Stop worrying so much about when and HOW it's going to fall. Its crazy its like people can't wait to see it fail..10+ years now.
BTW That little chart you guys are passing around.. Im not seeing it as being official from Blizz more like somebody made that to prove what they are trying to say but it's not accurate. (If Im wrong prove the source came from Blizzard not a blogger or journo)
Again assumptions by people who werent in the boardroom. Here is a better idea of what's what straight from the investors.
"Though World of Warcraft® ended the quarter at 5.6 million subscribers, Blizzard revenues are up year-over-year based on strong performance across the expanding Blizzard portfolio."
Blizzard puts their contact info at the bottom of these press releases. If you feel their numbers are in error, here are the people to contact.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Deadly-Mouse As soon as the next expansion is released they will get most of their players back plus a few more.
Highly improbable; it would have to be the most successful expansion ever by a huge margin; by the time it launches probably over twice as well.
Fewer people - as others have said - creates other issues; remember this population is spread across Europe (east and west), US, China, other Asian countries, S. America, Australasia. Less population means it is harder to form a group. The auction houses don't function. Zones feel quieter. Friends leave. Guilds stop raiding. Management start to question whether it is worth investing. A downward spiral.
I have been around for more than one mmo "implosion". And they are fast. Is this such an occasion - maybe not but things are far from rosy.
And the impression I get from the conference call questions is that Blizzard expect "new players" brought in by "the film" to fix things. And that 6.2 was the greatest content patch ever so no need to worry. Doesn't fill you with confidence.
Good talk about all you want, its a free country. Its still redundant at this point to talk about this same shit every year and if you are going to talk it.. use actual facts, numbers and information.. which you prob dont have if you arent part of the staff that actually attends the meetings. People are making up numbers off of assumptions about what they heard. Again. Internet culture..so nature of the beast I guess.
Blizzard Entertainment had the largest online player community in its history, with Q2 MAUsB up 50% year-over-year. ThoughWorld of Warcraft® ended the quarter at 5.6 million subscribersC, Blizzard revenues are up year-over-year based on strong performance across the expanding Blizzard portfolio. On June 23, 2015, Blizzard Entertainment released, Fury of Hellfire, one of the largest non-expansion content updates to date for World of Warcraft.Thisnew content helped stabilize the subscriber number towards the end of the quarter. World of Warcraft remains the No. 1 subscription?based MMORPG in the world.
That is actual facts from Blizzard themselves.
Where does it say they "Plummet to 5.6 M"
I didnt see that anywhere actually. They simply said we finished at 5.6 million. Did they say we started at 20M this year and fell to 5.6M? If they did please advise.
read my last post. Also read the last sentence of your stanza. Still NO. 1 so what the hell does it matter. Why is this news when it happens almost every single year.. people act like they dont know the cycle of this game by now. Like I said its redundant.
BTW 5.6 Million is incredible for any MMO to have.. esp a decade old one. Again what's the discussion here? What? Somebody made a MMO that has 10M subs or something?
I just dont really see the point of trying to make this a thing every year but again internet gonna internet.
Do you understand that mmorpgs like ESO and GW2 probably have more players in the West than WoW now? WoW most likely has less than 2 million in the west, people you play with. This is a big deal man. WoW is no longer king of the west.
Question: Who made that chart? Did blizzard personally send you that or is that somebody's "estimate" of what they think is going on or is it factual?
We have to be factual when talking about numbers. Secondly like I said, why does it matter. It makes no sense to me at all to mention WOW's losses when they are still the king of western mmos. The loss didnt change anything and thats if its true. You guys are talking like you were in the boardroom meeting with blizz- activ. Yes we know people quit but we don't know the exact number and to top it off any other game would kill to have even a 5% of what wow had in the last 10 months. Again I just dont see how this is being reported every year like its new. This has been going on for 10 or more years.
Its a cycle like I said and tbh im sick of it. Find something else to discuss guys. Nobody cares that the old rich man lost a couple million dollars..even if its true he is a multibillionaire that created a product(s) that LOTS of people still use/need.
Celebrate his accomplishment not everytime he loses or gains money.. money is the smallest thing in the grand picture of his(wow) legacy.
It's interesting in the same way it would be if Rhonda Rousey started losing fights...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Good talk about all you want, its a free country. Its still redundant at this point to talk about this same shit every year and if you are going to talk it.. use actual facts, numbers and information.. which you prob dont have if you arent part of the staff that actually attends the meetings. People are making up numbers off of assumptions about what they heard. Again. Internet culture..so nature of the beast I guess.
Blizzard Entertainment had the largest online player community in its history, with Q2 MAUsB up 50% year-over-year. ThoughWorld of Warcraft® ended the quarter at 5.6 million subscribersC, Blizzard revenues are up year-over-year based on strong performance across the expanding Blizzard portfolio. On June 23, 2015, Blizzard Entertainment released, Fury of Hellfire, one of the largest non-expansion content updates to date for World of Warcraft.Thisnew content helped stabilize the subscriber number towards the end of the quarter. World of Warcraft remains the No. 1 subscription?based MMORPG in the world.
That is actual facts from Blizzard themselves.
Where does it say they "Plummet to 5.6 M"
I didnt see that anywhere actually. They simply said we finished at 5.6 million. Did they say we started at 20M this year and fell to 5.6M? If they did please advise.
read my last post. Also read the last sentence of your stanza. Still NO. 1 so what the hell does it matter. Why is this news when it happens almost every single year.. people act like they dont know the cycle of this game by now. Like I said its redundant.
BTW 5.6 Million is incredible for any MMO to have.. esp a decade old one. Again what's the discussion here? What? Somebody made a MMO that has 10M subs or something?
I just dont really see the point of trying to make this a thing every year but again internet gonna internet.
Do you understand that mmorpgs like ESO and GW2 probably have more players in the West than WoW now? WoW most likely has less than 2 million in the west, people you play with. This is a big deal man.
I was predicting WoW would be down to 7mil in Q1 (Was at 7.1mil), and down to 5mil in Q2(Was at 5.6mil).
I was also predicting that ESO will surpass WoW this year already. ESO has more than 2mil active players on the PC side, probably more than 5mil on the Consoles combined. Hell it wouldn't surprise me if ESO has more Subs then WoW as of right now, even though ESO is B2P with optional subscription.
Seriously though Q2 finished "strong" for WoW, they announced the token system and 6.2 was fairly big (even though with the content which should've been in at launch). If they don't come up with something BIG till Q3 ends, they'll be below 3mil "Subs", and less than 1mil subs in the West. There is nothing stopping now the subs from totally falling down till the next expansion.
Blizzard Entertainment had the largest online player community in its history, with Q2 MAUsB up 50% year-over-year. ThoughWorld of Warcraft® ended the quarter at 5.6 million subscribersC, Blizzard revenues are up year-over-year based on strong performance across the expanding Blizzard portfolio. On June 23, 2015, Blizzard Entertainment released, Fury of Hellfire, one of the largest non-expansion content updates to date for World of Warcraft.Thisnew content helped stabilize the subscriber number towards the end of the quarter. World of Warcraft remains the No. 1 subscription?based MMORPG in the world.
That is actual facts from Blizzard themselves.
Where does it say they "Plummet to 5.6 M"
I didnt see that anywhere actually. They simply said we finished at 5.6 million. Did they say we started at 20M this year and fell to 5.6M? If they did please advise.
read my last post. Also read the last sentence of your stanza. Still NO. 1 so what the hell does it matter. Why is this news when it happens almost every single year.. people act like they dont know the cycle of this game by now. Like I said its redundant.
BTW 5.6 Million is incredible for any MMO to have.. esp a decade old one. Again what's the discussion here? What? Somebody made a MMO that has 10M subs or something?
I just dont really see the point of trying to make this a thing every year but again internet gonna internet.
I never used the word plummet, you said you wanted facts and I posted them.
And 5.6 mils is still incredible but that doesn't mean Blizz shouldn't continue in the direction they started with their last expansion. They need to cough up far more content in their next one or they actually risk losing that number one position for the first time since Wow came out.
And honestly do the trend worry me, it isn't just Wow that lost subscriptions lately, many western MMOs have lost subs the last year and while neither Wow nor MMOs in general are dying it means trouble for us MMO fans since fewer investors get interesting in funding new MMOs.
Blizzard themeselves cancelled Titan and that was actually a disaster for MMO fans no matter if you planned to play it or not. The fact that hearthstone actually makes more money than Wow doesn't exactly help us either.
I was predicting WoW would be down to 7mil in Q1 (Was at 7.1mil), and down to 5mil in Q2(Was at 5.6mil).
I was also predicting that ESO will surpass WoW this year already. ESO has more than 2mil active players on the PC side, probably more than 5mil on the Consoles combined. Hell it wouldn't surprise me if ESO has more Subs then WoW as of right now, even though ESO is B2P with optional subscription.
Seriously though Q2 finished "strong" for WoW, they announced the token system and 6.2 was fairly big (even though with the content which should've been in at launch). If they don't come up with something BIG till Q3 ends, they'll be below 3mil "Subs", and less than 1mil subs in the West. There is nothing stopping now the subs from totally falling down till the next expansion.
WoW won't recover from this anymore.
Sorry, but I don't buy that ESO would be larger than Wow but not bother to make a press release of it. I can promise you that you will hear of it if ESO ever becomes the largest MMO, that is not something the publishers would want to keep secret.
Blizzard Entertainment had the largest online player community in its history, with Q2 MAUsB up 50% year-over-year. ThoughWorld of Warcraft® ended the quarter at 5.6 million subscribersC, Blizzard revenues are up year-over-year based on strong performance across the expanding Blizzard portfolio. On June 23, 2015, Blizzard Entertainment released, Fury of Hellfire, one of the largest non-expansion content updates to date for World of Warcraft.Thisnew content helped stabilize the subscriber number towards the end of the quarter. World of Warcraft remains the No. 1 subscription?based MMORPG in the world.
That is actual facts from Blizzard themselves.
Where does it say they "Plummet to 5.6 M"
I didnt see that anywhere actually. They simply said we finished at 5.6 million. Did they say we started at 20M this year and fell to 5.6M? If they did please advise.
read my last post. Also read the last sentence of your stanza. Still NO. 1 so what the hell does it matter. Why is this news when it happens almost every single year.. people act like they dont know the cycle of this game by now. Like I said its redundant.
BTW 5.6 Million is incredible for any MMO to have.. esp a decade old one. Again what's the discussion here? What? Somebody made a MMO that has 10M subs or something?
I just dont really see the point of trying to make this a thing every year but again internet gonna internet.
I never used the word plummet, you said you wanted facts and I posted them.
And 5.6 mils is still incredible but that doesn't mean Blizz shouldn't continue in the direction they started with their last expansion. They need to cough up far more content in their next one or they actually risk losing that number one position for the first time since Wow came out.
And honestly do the trend worry me, it isn't just Wow that lost subscriptions lately, many western MMOs have lost subs the last year and while neither Wow nor MMOs in general are dying it means trouble for us MMO fans since fewer investors get interesting in funding new MMOs.
Blizzard themeselves cancelled Titan and that was actually a disaster for MMO fans no matter if you planned to play it or not. The fact that hearthstone actually makes more money than Wow doesn't exactly help us either.
Heartstone made barely over 100mil revenue in 2014, WoW made 700mil.
That figure 1.25 billion combined revenue between those 3 games is mostly from Destiny anyway, I'd say 800mil+ revenue came from Destiny. As garbage as the game is, it's still way more profitable then Heartstone who had over 40mil registered accounts and is left with less than 10mil active players now.
Good talk about all you want, its a free country. Its still redundant at this point to talk about this same shit every year and if you are going to talk it.. use actual facts, numbers and information.. which you prob dont have if you arent part of the staff that actually attends the meetings. People are making up numbers off of assumptions about what they heard. Again. Internet culture..so nature of the beast I guess.
What fake numbers?
ok are you part of the Blizzard Staff? If not you prob don't have accurate numbers. EVEN if you DO.. the numbers dont make a diff to the grand picture. WoW is still the top mmo in the west, also one of the most successful media products ever. What im trying to tell you people is to appreciate that more..celebrate that shit more. Stop worrying so much about when and HOW it's going to fall. Its crazy its like people can't wait to see it fail..10+ years now.
BTW That little chart you guys are passing around.. Im not seeing it as being official from Blizz more like somebody made that to prove what they are trying to say but it's not accurate. (If Im wrong prove the source came from Blizzard not a blogger or journo)
Again assumptions by people who werent in the boardroom. Here is a better idea of what's what straight from the investors.
"Though World of Warcraft® ended the quarter at 5.6 million subscribers, Blizzard revenues are up year-over-year based on strong performance across the expanding Blizzard portfolio."
Blizzard puts their contact info at the bottom of these press releases. If you feel their numbers are in error, here are the people to contact.
no shit.. thats just the same thing i just posted. The chart that OP posted in reply to me is not in there anywhere. Thats what im pointing out. Again my point was people are going off what they heard. Where are these exact numbers coming from? Did blizz give these same numbers people are coming up with? The only number I see is 5.6. They didnt say we loss they said we finished at 5.6. I dont see any of these other numbers anywhere. Im not here to go into the specifics nor the details of the company. I didnt start that conversation.. it was never my point you are missing it by far.
Im saying if you are going to talk about WOW's or ANY game's numbers use their actual source material not some chart you found.
Im saying that the numbers should not matter to you until they say we have to close this game down because its no longer a profit to our company.
Im saying to recognize human accomplishments more than seeking to tear them down
Im saying its okay to talk about the historical and financial value of a game, any game but if you start using stats make sure they are factual numbers not just somebody else's opinion of what they want it to be or what they heard it was.
dont try to flip this into something else because you will miss my point.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Comments
To quote Mark Twain: "The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated".
You should probably wait a few more years on this one, Wow still is the top earning Western MMO and is likely to be that 2016 as well.
The problem here is that with the loss of subscribers and thus the loss of subscription money Blizzard will step up with their cashshop.
More insta gratification items, fluff gear, free characters, and maybe even tiered items in time to make up for that loss in money.
Not something I personally would be looking out for, unless of course those players that are into buying from their shops without playing for it.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Definitely not too shabby. However, if I was still a subscriber and hoped to continue playing for some time, I'd be more than a wee bit concerned with how quickly that huge a chunk of the playerbase had decided to say adios.
That's still a shit tonne of players, though.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
ok are you part of the Blizzard Staff? If not you prob don't have accurate numbers. EVEN if you DO.. the numbers dont make a diff to the grand picture. WoW is still the top mmo in the west, also one of the most successful media products ever. What im trying to tell you people is to appreciate that more..celebrate that shit more. Stop worrying so much about when and HOW it's going to fall. Its crazy its like people can't wait to see it fail..10+ years now.
BTW That little chart you guys are passing around.. Im not seeing it as being official from Blizz more like somebody made that to prove what they are trying to say but it's not accurate. (If Im wrong prove the source came from Blizzard not a blogger or journo)
Again assumptions by people who werent in the boardroom. Here is a better idea of what's what straight from the investors.
http://investor.activision.com/results.cfm
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Exactly. The MMO is barely over a decade old and they're down to 5.6 million? FAIL!!!!
World of Warcraft came out at a time when the numbers showed a successful MMO would be able to do a five-year run and cap out at about 250,000 subs. It kicked almost every record to the curb and is still sitting at millions more than ten years later. Any dev in the industry would kill to be in a position where they're game "plummeted" to a meager 5.6 million subs.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Really? You think that these numbers are "estimates" and "guesses"? All anyone has to do is visit the Activision-Blizzard Investor Relations page to view, download, print, examine, analyze and see for themselves the numbers that are required to be released to investors on a quarterly and yearly basis.
For what it's worth, I am playing WoW and on a fly while reading these incredible posts of yours. I am beyond amazed. I love WoW. I do not want to see it die and I am not calling for that, nor is anyone else...well, maybe a couple...in this thread.
The NEWS is that WoW has lost half its playerbase in under a year. Whether you like it or not, that is huge.
Go to Activision-Blizzard's Investor site and look at the FACTS for yourself.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There were rumors before WoD came out that WoD was mostly a stop-gap expansion. That the xpack they had been working on wasn't going to be ready for a bit and decided to slap together something fairly quickly to boost sales, sub numbers and keep the long time fans happier. No idea how true this is, as it turns out, tons of rumors about WoW over the years have turned out to be true in some facets.
Hence, whatever they are announcing at Gamescom could be something that they have been working on for quite awhile and could be something fairly sizable. I do feel that announcing it at Gamescom could be a tourniquet of sorts, as they have made major announcements at Blizzcon historically. Could also be that the next xpack is going to come out before the end of the year as a major surprise to everyone.
Of course, it could all be just the same crap that we've now seen for a few years.
I played WoW for many years and enjoyed a ton of time there, but I really feel like I have been burned with MoP and WoD now. Cata to a lesser degree as I did play through the entire xpack cycle and did raid all the way through. Blizzard still places far too much focus on raiding as their endgame though. GW2, for all of it's faults, does have a pretty good open world PvE system where I feel like I can be active, have fun and actually be rewarded for my time. Raiding is a bit of a crap shoot in WoW where you can go an entire raid cycle and not get the item you really want/need.
Sadly, I think it's way too late for WoW. I don't feel like Blizzard has the balls to really make major changes anymore and want to maintain the status quo. Now that they are making money via Hearthstone and HotS and most likely will with Overwatch, the focus of the company will be placed on those three titles. The staple franchies of WarCraft, StarCraft and Diablo are suffering for it.
I will look and see what is presented, but it's going to be with a more skeptical eye. There are far too many other games coming out that I know I will enjoy.
Maybe, but it would be a stupid move that would make things even worse.
Instead they need to cough up some money and improve the game. Get rid of stupid timesinks like garrisons and make a huge expansion. Implement full mega server technology. Maybe adding some dynamic events ala GW2, not too many but some to take some of the pressure of the quests.
Earlier have Wow reacted quickly when other games add new stuff, the battlegrounds came shortly after Guildwars released as example, phising were added after LOTRO and so on. Of course have they tried to implement their own features like garrisons and the idea wasn't bad but the implementation sucked.
If they want to earn more money again, they need to invest in the game. if they continue using it as a milk cow they will themeselves finally have created the Wow killer people have talked about for many years, it just wont be another game but Activisions own short sightness.
That Bashiok quit suddenly makes sense.
More than that the shocking part is that the WoW token didn't stem the tide at all. Not only did a huge chunk of players leave, a huge chunk of players couldn't even be bothered to farm gold to stay subscribed.
Just how bad would things be without the WoW Token?
I don't think you understand mmorpgs like ESO and GW2 may have more players in the west than WoW right now. No mmorpg has surpassed wow for over 10 years.
The current population isn't relevant for this. It's a very large drop that happened quite fast. That's a large chunk of players that fell off. Even if in a game that had 200k and suddenly lost close to 100k subscriber in such a short amount of time it would be worrying.
I'm not saying World of Warcraft is dead, or even close to it. I don't think anyone is disputing that WoW remains the king. It doesn't take away from the fact that they just lost a very significant portion of their population though.
Someone said earlier that we're witnessing History. That we should be happy for such. This is true, in a way. Though history needs to be documented. News sites like these need to write their own stories so that we have multiple sources. "Witnessing History" just means people are bound to talk about it. Just because it may offend others since it's no longer as good as it once been, or people think someone is beating a dead horse, doesn't mean we magically stop talking about it. Reporting on it. There are so many things about our own history that are left to theory because there are limited texts, or a single historian was paid to write up a family's history. Which oft read to exaggeration. With no counter to such claims, because nobody cared enough to write on it, and the skill itself was in fact a skill. How people felt (or in this case, feel) during these times is incredibly important -- how they react. It gives insight to culture of man during this. It is a reason why the U.S. government is keeping copies of every single tweet made by a U.S. citizen and storing it into historical reserves for future generation. How we learned and adapted to the internet, how we react to things that happen. How history is formed. This is also human science, the workings of our brains during these times of technological advancements. In this case: How did people feel about this? What was the response? And, if they don't fix the leak, how did they fail in preventing or easing the loss?
People could sugar coat it all they want. "AMAZING GAME ONLY LOSES 5,000,000 SUBS, STILL HAS 5,000,000. BEST EVER." Valuable notes from a different perspective. Yet still a piece to the puzzle that would form history. As it fits in contrast to the line of people making fun of it -- or simply stating what they've learned -- that the game has lost 5,000,000 subs in so short of time, and that that's bad no matter how you look at it. Can this be disputed? Sure, anyone can dispute anything. But facts do not lie -- and lies are stronger than facts (when repeated enough, or there isn't enough sources to the contrary). I aim to signify when facts are not facts such as putting "UNRELIABLE" when I hit a speculative portion of my own response or writing -- to talk about something, as this is news. News of History. Now, if you would argue as to why anyone would care for the rambling or speculation parts of my posts, then you would have something. I don't know why -- but people enjoy speculating. Or trying to learn what other people think as opposed to sticking to their own thoughts and placing them in stone.
The whole argument of "either you play or do not play" is (in my opinion) incredibly simple minded and ignores so many things. Then to actually state when a good time to talk numbers (by naming a number, such as one million) shows a sense of hypocrisy -- if it's not okay to talk numbers now, it should never be okay. After all, "you either play or you don't", right? Indeed, there were many people saying "Let's talk numbers when it reaches 5.5 million -- that's when we know they're in trouble" when people were talking about the 3,000,000 loss drop that took it to 7.1. When does it end? The answer (in my opinion), is that these people just fool themselves into thinking they're not in the whole "internet culture" because they're against a certain aspect that they've shown substantial hypocrisy towards. Always another condition for them before it's okay to talk of something. Always taking things the wrong way. Putting too much thought into casual thought. Attempting to chastise others for human nature, for speaking of living history. But how does living history exist? In the present -- and it only truly becomes memorable history if people speak of it.
So why does history matter to people? Why does something that's big enough to become history matter? Entertainment. Intrigue. If someone is genuinely interested in numbers -- whether it be in general, or part of his job or past hobby. How dare someone even insinuate that this is wrong? Tell others that they should wait? Make up their own rules of numbers, when they already said that numbers don't matter? My friend, you need take a look in the mirror and ask yourself what internet culture is. People are all different, and don't adhere to any one person's thoughts. People have grown up in different cultures. The internet has, indeed formed its own under the guise of being anonymous.
I can assure you that -- for many people -- such simple thoughts of "it's either black or white" do not hold ground. To even think to try and hold others to such -- to preach them in it -- is (and in my opinion) potentially hazardous thinking to otherwise free thinkers who analyze and converse. Simple discussion may very well not be scholarly, but it's important to the bigger picture. New sites print more professional articles -- that's what they're for. But if you're afraid -- or despise -- the so called "internet culture" (which, if you're a student of history, you would know that what displayed here is not internet culture, but rather human nature that has a new canvas to spread gossip and rumors as they always have), then why do you, yourself, read forum posters? Why do you even care, as you ask why they care? You're free to dispute anything, to say anything, but doesn't it all seem a little odd considering what you've been writing?
According to MMO-Champion, tokens were included. There was a tweet by a Blizzard employee some time ago saying that "Tokens did not have a profound impact on subscription numbers". How it was included? Likely the same way any subscription is. One account = one subscription if it has game time (excluding free accounts). Though this is a presumption on my part.
It begs further investigation as to how a game can still lose 1,500,000 subscribers even with 6.2 releases days prior to the end of the quarter and offering people a chance to play for free.
This is important to know for Blizzard, so that they can make preparations to help prevent further loss (or acquire more players).
As a whole, I agree that there will be a fall in Q3 unless they come up with something spectacular at Gamescon. Or they manage to get the beta out ASAP and release the new expansion before then.
Where does it say they "Plummet to 5.6 M"
I didnt see that anywhere actually. They simply said we finished at 5.6 million. Did they say we started at 20M this year and fell to 5.6M? If they did please advise.
read my last post. Also read the last sentence of your stanza. Still NO. 1 so what the hell does it matter. Why is this news when it happens almost every single year.. people act like they dont know the cycle of this game by now. Like I said its redundant.
BTW 5.6 Million is incredible for any MMO to have.. esp a decade old one. Again what's the discussion here? What? Somebody made a MMO that has 10M subs or something?
I just dont really see the point of trying to make this a thing every year but again internet gonna internet.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
From the Activision Blizzard press release:
"Though World of Warcraft® ended the quarter at 5.6 million subscribers, Blizzard revenues are up year-over-year based on strong performance across the expanding Blizzard portfolio."
Blizzard puts their contact info at the bottom of these press releases. If you feel their numbers are in error, here are the people to contact.
Activision Blizzard, Inc.
Amrita Ahuja
SVP, Investor Relations
(310) 255-2075
Amrita.Ahuja@Activision.com
or
Mary Osako
SVP, Global Communications
(424) 322-5166
Mary.Osako@Activision.com
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Highly improbable; it would have to be the most successful expansion ever by a huge margin; by the time it launches probably over twice as well.
Fewer people - as others have said - creates other issues; remember this population is spread across Europe (east and west), US, China, other Asian countries, S. America, Australasia. Less population means it is harder to form a group. The auction houses don't function. Zones feel quieter. Friends leave. Guilds stop raiding. Management start to question whether it is worth investing. A downward spiral.
I have been around for more than one mmo "implosion". And they are fast. Is this such an occasion - maybe not but things are far from rosy.
And the impression I get from the conference call questions is that Blizzard expect "new players" brought in by "the film" to fix things. And that 6.2 was the greatest content patch ever so no need to worry. Doesn't fill you with confidence.
Do you understand that mmorpgs like ESO and GW2 probably have more players in the West than WoW now? WoW most likely has less than 2 million in the west, people you play with. This is a big deal man. WoW is no longer king of the west.
It's interesting in the same way it would be if Rhonda Rousey started losing fights...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I was predicting WoW would be down to 7mil in Q1 (Was at 7.1mil), and down to 5mil in Q2(Was at 5.6mil).
I was also predicting that ESO will surpass WoW this year already. ESO has more than 2mil active players on the PC side, probably more than 5mil on the Consoles combined. Hell it wouldn't surprise me if ESO has more Subs then WoW as of right now, even though ESO is B2P with optional subscription.
Seriously though Q2 finished "strong" for WoW, they announced the token system and 6.2 was fairly big (even though with the content which should've been in at launch). If they don't come up with something BIG till Q3 ends, they'll be below 3mil "Subs", and less than 1mil subs in the West. There is nothing stopping now the subs from totally falling down till the next expansion.
WoW won't recover from this anymore.
I never used the word plummet, you said you wanted facts and I posted them.
And 5.6 mils is still incredible but that doesn't mean Blizz shouldn't continue in the direction they started with their last expansion. They need to cough up far more content in their next one or they actually risk losing that number one position for the first time since Wow came out.
And honestly do the trend worry me, it isn't just Wow that lost subscriptions lately, many western MMOs have lost subs the last year and while neither Wow nor MMOs in general are dying it means trouble for us MMO fans since fewer investors get interesting in funding new MMOs.
Blizzard themeselves cancelled Titan and that was actually a disaster for MMO fans no matter if you planned to play it or not. The fact that hearthstone actually makes more money than Wow doesn't exactly help us either.
Not surprising at all. Just a demonstration of the strong herd mentality of gamers.
Moving on to the phone app...
Sorry, but I don't buy that ESO would be larger than Wow but not bother to make a press release of it. I can promise you that you will hear of it if ESO ever becomes the largest MMO, that is not something the publishers would want to keep secret.
Heartstone made barely over 100mil revenue in 2014, WoW made 700mil.
That figure 1.25 billion combined revenue between those 3 games is mostly from Destiny anyway, I'd say 800mil+ revenue came from Destiny. As garbage as the game is, it's still way more profitable then Heartstone who had over 40mil registered accounts and is left with less than 10mil active players now.
no shit.. thats just the same thing i just posted. The chart that OP posted in reply to me is not in there anywhere. Thats what im pointing out. Again my point was people are going off what they heard. Where are these exact numbers coming from? Did blizz give these same numbers people are coming up with? The only number I see is 5.6. They didnt say we loss they said we finished at 5.6. I dont see any of these other numbers anywhere. Im not here to go into the specifics nor the details of the company. I didnt start that conversation.. it was never my point you are missing it by far.
Im saying if you are going to talk about WOW's or ANY game's numbers use their actual source material not some chart you found.
Im saying that the numbers should not matter to you until they say we have to close this game down because its no longer a profit to our company.
Im saying to recognize human accomplishments more than seeking to tear them down
Im saying its okay to talk about the historical and financial value of a game, any game but if you start using stats make sure they are factual numbers not just somebody else's opinion of what they want it to be or what they heard it was.
dont try to flip this into something else because you will miss my point.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.