You forget the fun part and only hope for the rush to the end or the fight to have the best gear.
Not what it's about.
Talking to a wall though..so whatever
Lol, such a narrow-minded point of view!
I'm one of those people who rush to the endgame (or, i did when I still played MMOs). The reason wasn't because I wanted to rush, or be first, or get the best gear. I rushed because the leveling process in most MMOs just absolutely sucks! The storylines are almost always extremely generic, bland and uninteresting. I've simply read too many books to be impressed by generic writing so the story can't hook me. Combine that with how easy most MMOs are during the leveling process and all you get is a leveling experience completely devoid of fun.
So yes, I rush the leveling process, not because I want to, but because the leveling process usually sucks and I want to get to the content I enjoy.
Back to the OP, I'm in the same boat. SW:TOR was the straw that finally broke my MMO back. I realised I was paying a monthly subscription for a game that sucked in every single possible way and the only reason I was subscribing was because of my guild.
As for why it's so hard to find an MMO to stick with? This is going to be purely subjective as clearly a lot of other people can still find mmos they want to play. For me, it is about finding the right work / life / fun balance. MMOs can take up a lot of time and I certainly get addicted to them. So, I made a promise to myself that I wouldn't play any more MMOs unless the MMO in question met some basic criteria which would allow me to have long term fun. My criteria is as follows:
Must have a decent IP - preferably something recognisable.
Must have world pvp - not necessarily free for all, full loot or anything hardcore. It just must have somewhere where the number of people isn't limited and we have objectives to fight over. Think pvp zones in WAR or Ettenmoors in LotRO.
Must have complicated combat - I'm an intelligent guy so I need a combat system that is going to challenge me for more than 5 minutes. This is one of the key reasons I quit SW:TOR - the combat was just too god damn easy!
Must have horizontal endgame progression - fuck stat inflation, tiered raiding and all that bollocks. Vertical progression segregates the community and makes too much content redundant without actually making the game more fun.
Over the last three years since I quit SW:TOR, no MMO has offered these four criteria as features of their game and so I haven't played an MMO beyond beta testing. TESO came very close: it had the IP, the pvp and the horizontal progression, but the combat was just really sluggish and dull. I still hope to find a good MMO in the future to play....
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr80 Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr5X Shaman
There seems to be this mindset among some on this forum that "it is hard to find a good mmo" or that the old mmos were so much better; strangely though I have had a blast in nearly every mmo I have played, and I can really appreciate how mmos have improved (or at least spiced up) the actual gameplay elements.
I can certainly find elements to criticize, but at the same time nearly each mmo I have played seems to bring something fresh and interesting to the table, or at least refines what came before it. I feel like we are in the golden age of mmos, with several amazing looking titles in the works and a solid backlog of great mmos to choose from right now.
Perhaps my problem is that I among the 99% of gamers who are entitlement brats and think they deserve a first place medal simply for existing? Maybe if I was one of the 1% of the big boys and girls I would also hate most mmos?
I have concluded that I have given up all the finer requirements of MMORPGs. Combat, crafting, aesthetics ...
The only single thing I'm looking for is that it is a persistent world to live inn.
Archage got close before release and Guild Wars 2 is arguably the closest we have right now.
I feel really sad for the generation that has never gotten the experience of meeting someone random in the middle of no where and actually started talking because there were no one else around. Or server known names/players, not because they are on a list somewhere, not because they have participated in global chat, but because everyone knows who they are.
All the social aspects of a virtual world seems lost to me.
I have concluded that I have given up all the finer requirements of MMORPGs. Combat, crafting, aesthetics ...
The only single thing I'm looking for is that it is a persistent world to live inn.
Archage got close before release and Guild Wars 2 is arguably the closest we have right now.
I feel really sad for the generation that has never gotten the experience of meeting someone random in the middle of no where and actually started talking because there were no one else around. Or server known names/players, not because they are on a list somewhere, not because they have participated in global chat, but because everyone knows who they are.
All the social aspects of a virtual world seems lost to me.
This is my main problem with MMO's, they don't feel like a world you can live in. Everything is split into different things, it's not persistent in a way I'd like it to be like UO or SWG were.
It's like if you stripped away something from a newer MMO it wouldn't really matter because everything is their own separate 'game' if you know what I mean?
Yeah, just like Guild Wars 2 is completely instanced. Even though you don't notice it when playing. It is sacrificing the "persistent world" element for the "single player" element.
You used to be able to return to an area and find the same players in that area, because you knew that area were those players favorite spot.
I think I might have to check out EverQuest 2 Time Locked, as mentioned. But I don't have much faith in the company that runs the game, so it would not surprise me if they shut down the server without notification, because of shifting focus. So I'm not sure I'm willing to invents a whole lot of time into it because of uncertainty.
I have concluded that I have given up all the finer requirements of MMORPGs. Combat, crafting, aesthetics ...
The only single thing I'm looking for is that it is a persistent world to live inn.
Archage got close before release and Guild Wars 2 is arguably the closest we have right now.
I feel really sad for the generation that has never gotten the experience of meeting someone random in the middle of no where and actually started talking because there were no one else around. Or server known names/players, not because they are on a list somewhere, not because they have participated in global chat, but because everyone knows who they are.
All the social aspects of a virtual world seems lost to me.
This is my main problem with MMO's, they don't feel like a world you can live in. Everything is split into different things, it's not persistent in a way I'd like it to be like UO or SWG were.
It's like if you stripped away something from a newer MMO it wouldn't really matter because everything is their own separate 'game' if you know what I mean?
Pretty sure ArcheAge is a big persistent world and a recent mmo; Black Desert looks to be similar in that regard. If you need a more intimate experience (know everyone's name) maybe something like a minecraft server or one of those new steam perpetual early access survival titles like Ark?
Also it would matter if you stripped something from some newer mmos- eg take out pvp from ESO, ouch.
I have concluded that I have given up all the finer requirements of MMORPGs. Combat, crafting, aesthetics ...
The only single thing I'm looking for is that it is a persistent world to live inn.
Archage got close before release and Guild Wars 2 is arguably the closest we have right now.
I feel really sad for the generation that has never gotten the experience of meeting someone random in the middle of no where and actually started talking because there were no one else around. Or server known names/players, not because they are on a list somewhere, not because they have participated in global chat, but because everyone knows who they are.
All the social aspects of a virtual world seems lost to me.
This is my main problem with MMO's, they don't feel like a world you can live in. Everything is split into different things, it's not persistent in a way I'd like it to be like UO or SWG were.
It's like if you stripped away something from a newer MMO it wouldn't really matter because everything is their own separate 'game' if you know what I mean?
Pretty sure ArcheAge is a big persistent world and a recent mmo; Black Desert looks to be similar in that regard. If you need a more intimate experience (know everyone's name) maybe something like a minecraft server or one of those new steam perpetual early access survival titles like Ark?
Also it would matter if you stripped something from some newer mmos- eg take out pvp from ESO, ouch.
ArcheAge and Black Desert are the games I'm looking for, but I don't like the monetary plan used. There's something about Korean MMO's that don't do it for me. I think it's a difference between Eastern and Western players that's really hard for them to make it work over here.
There seems to be this mindset among some on this forum that "it is hard to find a good mmo" or that the old mmos were so much better; strangely though I have had a blast in nearly every mmo I have played, and I can really appreciate how mmos have improved (or at least spiced up) the actual gameplay elements.
I can certainly find elements to criticize, but at the same time nearly each mmo I have played seems to bring something fresh and interesting to the table, or at least refines what came before it. I feel like we are in the golden age of mmos, with several amazing looking titles in the works and a solid backlog of great mmos to choose from right now.
Perhaps my problem is that I among the 99% of gamers who are entitlement brats and think they deserve a first place medal simply for existing? Maybe if I was one of the 1% of the big boys and girls I would also hate most mmos?
A part of it may be the expected length of enjoyment.
I don't, and never have, game hopped. When I play an MMO, its for a minimum of 6 months but what I'm looking for is a proper home, somewhere I can establish my guild, play and have fun for years.
The evolution of the themepark MMO has been away from long term sustained enjoyment and towards shorter, more bitesized pieces of enjoyment. Combine that with the overall dumbing down of MMOs and the result is I am unable to enjoy myself for more than a few hours.
Finally, I'd just like to say that those people like me who find it hard to find a new MMO, we don't hate MMOs. On the contrary, we love MMOs (or, i guess you could say, we love the idea of mmos) which is why you see us hanging around here still! We just don't like the direction MMO development has taken which is why we struggle to find a new home. It also remains my fondest hope (however remote) than an MMO designer might one day read a suggestion of mine and for that suggestion to stick in the designers mind. I know it's unlikely to happen, but we all keep trying anyway!
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr80 Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr5X Shaman
I have concluded that I have given up all the finer requirements of MMORPGs. Combat, crafting, aesthetics ...
The only single thing I'm looking for is that it is a persistent world to live inn.
Archage got close before release and Guild Wars 2 is arguably the closest we have right now.
I feel really sad for the generation that has never gotten the experience of meeting someone random in the middle of no where and actually started talking because there were no one else around. Or server known names/players, not because they are on a list somewhere, not because they have participated in global chat, but because everyone knows who they are.
All the social aspects of a virtual world seems lost to me.
This is my main problem with MMO's, they don't feel like a world you can live in. Everything is split into different things, it's not persistent in a way I'd like it to be like UO or SWG were.
It's like if you stripped away something from a newer MMO it wouldn't really matter because everything is their own separate 'game' if you know what I mean?
Pretty sure ArcheAge is a big persistent world and a recent mmo; Black Desert looks to be similar in that regard. If you need a more intimate experience (know everyone's name) maybe something like a minecraft server or one of those new steam perpetual early access survival titles like Ark?
Also it would matter if you stripped something from some newer mmos- eg take out pvp from ESO, ouch.
ArcheAge and Black Desert are the games I'm looking for, but I don't like the monetary plan used. There's something about Korean MMO's that don't do it for me. I think it's a difference between Eastern and Western players that's really hard for them to make it work over here.
You are completely over generalizing about Asian mmos, several have been/are quite successful in the West. This idea of the "difference" between Eastern/Western players is also so nebulous, so Donald Trump.
I don't, and never have, game hopped. When I play an MMO, its for a minimum of 6 months but what I'm looking for is a proper home, somewhere I can establish my guild, play and have fun for years.
And that kind of experience turns out to be less profitable to market to. Thus, only available in the past.
The developers have moved on.
"They should make the kind of games we like," say Old Fossils. "They used to, way back when."
Have you ever met a corporation that consciously chooses in favor of lower profits?
"That's not FAIR!!!1one!!"
Have you ever met a corporation that cares about fairness?
"Gnashing and wailing, complaint complaint."
They can't hear you over the rustling of the cash piles. Sorry.
I don't, and never have, game hopped. When I play an MMO, its for a minimum of 6 months but what I'm looking for is a proper home, somewhere I can establish my guild, play and have fun for years.
And that kind of experience turns out to be less profitable to market to. Thus, only available in the past.
The developers have moved on.
"They should make the kind of games we like," say Old Fossils. "They used to, way back when."
Have you ever met a corporation that consciously chooses in favor of lower profits?
"That's not FAIR!!!1one!!"
Have you ever met a corporation that cares about fairness?
"Gnashing and wailing, complaint complaint."
They can't hear you over the rustling of the cash piles. Sorry.
That was me. For years, I had been here complaining about how "they don't make em like they used to". And thought it's true, and, sure, I'd love to see one again, I've come to accept that it's never gonna happen again. We won't see the "Old School MMORPG" ever again. The way I see it, there are 2 options for this current state of offerings........
Pretty sure ArcheAge is a big persistent world and a recent mmo; Black Desert looks to be similar in that regard. If you need a more intimate experience (know everyone's name) maybe something like a minecraft server or one of those new steam perpetual early access survival titles like Ark?
ArcheAge got real close in alpha, but no cigar as of yet. I am looking forward to Black Desert, but I keep my expectations low for that one as well.
It does not matter as much if a game is PVP or not PVP. That whole discussion is like minor detail in an MMORPG, and I don't know why that discussion is hyped up so much. If I really want a PVP experience I log into Tekken, every MOBA or MMO pvp is a shadow of an experience compared to that. I can even forgive quest hubs, and I really really really hate quest hubs. What matters is how well the game is designed around being a virtual world, or a massive multiplayer role playing game if you like. How well the game is designed to work as a living world. What I do see a lot of, is players running from hub to hub, rushing through content like it is a barrier that holds them back, treating the world like a speedrun so they can get max level and pvp or raid.
I'm pretty sure many of us have at least tried to play, or are playing, games like Minecraft or ARK: Survival Evolved or Reign of Kings or Skyforge, because they have some of the elements we are looking for. But they are fundamentally, what we call a lobby game, albeit a multiplayer game.
I remember when I used to see more than 600 active, participating, people on my screen at the same time, and I thought.. "I can't wait to see how much bigger MMOs are going to be in the next 10 years". ... If I only knew...
I don't, and never have, game hopped. When I play an MMO, its for a minimum of 6 months but what I'm looking for is a proper home, somewhere I can establish my guild, play and have fun for years.
And that kind of experience turns out to be less profitable to market to. Thus, only available in the past.
The developers have moved on.
"They should make the kind of games we like," say Old Fossils. "They used to, way back when."
Have you ever met a corporation that consciously chooses in favor of lower profits?
"That's not FAIR!!!1one!!"
Have you ever met a corporation that cares about fairness?
"Gnashing and wailing, complaint complaint."
They can't hear you over the rustling of the cash piles. Sorry.
I'm pretty sure having 1 million players subscribe for 5 years is more profitable than having 1 million players subscribe for 1 month. Why on earth wouldn't you want to design a game for longevity?
Just because a game is designed with longevity in mind, i.e. offers long term goals, long term chances for improvement, deeper levels of satisfaction, doesn't mean it can't offer short term / bite sized content for those with short attention spans. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
Also, there are tons of corporations who conciously choose lower profits and care about fairness. Its called ethics and sustainability. Corporations more often than not choose lower profit products because they are more sustainable, or more ethically sound. So, god knows why you brought that up!
Finally, for the record, I'm not advocating a return to old school MMOs. I'm saying that the direction themepark mmos have taken is not sustainable long term and that a good developer will combine the best features from modern mmos with the best features of older mmos. Old school MMOs took up too much time and were generally really hard to get into so would never work in the modern market.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr80 Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr5X Shaman
You are completely over generalizing about Asian mmos, several have been/are quite successful in the West. This idea of the "difference" between Eastern/Western players is also so nebulous, so Donald Trump.
Exceptions do not make the rule. Also, I am truly curious which ones you have on mind...
If there is a market for it, there is profit to be made.
Star Citizen is a living example of a genre that has been neglected by developers for years. Even though tho people were "screaming" for those types of games, no one was making them, or capitalizing on that demand. Star Citizen, success or not, proves one thing, that people are willing to pay for even the idea of that type of game being made. Why joystick space simulation pc games weren't capitalized on before, no one knows, the demand was there all along, but most companies decided that zombie game xxx were more popular, so we go a dozen of those instead.. (still do).
I'm pretty sure having 1 million players subscribe for 5 years is more profitable than having 1 million players subscribe for 1 month. Why on earth wouldn't you want to design a game for longevity?
Just because a game is designed with longevity in mind, i.e. offers long term goals, long term chances for improvement, deeper levels of satisfaction, doesn't mean it can't offer short term / bite sized content for those with short attention spans. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
Also, there are tons of corporations who conciously choose lower profits and care about fairness. Its called ethics and sustainability. Corporations more often than not choose lower profit products because they are more sustainable, or more ethically sound. So, god knows why you brought that up!
Finally, for the record, I'm not advocating a return to old school MMOs. I'm saying that the direction themepark mmos have taken is not sustainable long term and that a good developer will combine the best features from modern mmos with the best features of older mmos. Old school MMOs took up too much time and were generally really hard to get into so would never work in the modern market.
Long term players are far better, yes. The problem is that designing a long term game takes skill, making some crap and hyping it is easy.
I agree that modern games have taken the wrong turn somewhere, but I think a lot of the problem is that the publishers create a game for today that will release 5 years from now. And yes, when new MMOs comes out they are often dated already and offered gameplay players would have wanted when the devs got the idea but can't really offer something new.
And when you start by copying games even older you get games that feel ancient whose gameplaywe already tired off before they even are halfways to release.
So you need to either guess what MMOs people will enjoy in the future or create something entirely new and let it finds it own market. And in either case you will need to find ways to entertain players long term. A few raids, daily quests, pet battles, garrisons and some crafting wont really do that unless you really can hook the players.
Basically do I think we need a totally new endgame, the current doesn't work any more.
They didn't have one million 5 years. They had 200k for 5 years and it took 1-2 years to get to that. Now they have 1 million for a few months then 200k for 5 years.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I posted something very similar. The posts for this thread go on...and on...and on. Obviously, there is a hole missing. Like some other people have mentioned, corporations churning out garbage like they've done is every other aspect of our lives in a lame attempt at maximizing profits fast. Look, the diversity in some of games is necessary for the varied players around the world. Like I mentioned in my post, when they closed CoH they sealed off a unique game. Nothing out there to replace and Champions Online is a joke. I'm waiting for BnS to arrive in NA. I'm playing on Russian server presently. That game lacks as far as community is concern too. It's a beautiful game, but so far I've been running almost totally solo with my sword dancer or blade dancer in the upcoming NA version.
If you are a person -Big on community and do not necessarily get your jollies out of beating up on other players. -Running dungeons and doing PvE content with groups -Like complete control over your toon's look, identity, and power sets
You're sort of screwed. For instance BnS, one support class. One! Then you're forced to make some cute animal toon with a damn CAT to play that set. Hate that! That's just lame. In the case of that game, I get it...sort of. It's not new. Been out for awhile in the east. I am just using it to illustrate my point. In CoH, you could've been a defender or a controller. Meaning if you logged on and at that time only wanted to support (whether locking down enemies, buffing/debuffing, or healing) you could. You weren't expected to really contribute to damage or to take aggro. THEN you got to pick from like 10 or so primary AND secondary powersets. Then you could make your toon WHATEVER you wanted it to do be...animal...alien...superhero...villian...whatever! Not mention fast animations for powers that could be used while in motion in most cases. Just a dynamic and fun experience! Anyway, I'm going to develop a reputation if I"m not careful. Haha
Agree with many of the posters here. Why did soccer (Football) not really catch on here for years? Not enough stats! We like stats! Vertical progression FTW.
I actually don't think we need a well known IP to be successful. In fact, many games based on well know IPs have tanked over the years (Star Trek anyone?) There does need to be some story involved; some level of immersion that makes sense beyond the "Foozle has invaded the world. You are the chosen one! (It must be my choice of clothing?) Your mission is... Blah Blah..;."
Players really need a sense of progression. Once I feel like I can't progress in a game, I check out. Level caps are OK as long as I can do some kind of alternative progression. Looking at Final Fantasy, the Armory system is kind of brilliant; progress in different classes to create jobs and mix and match some of the abilities? Nice! Looking at ESO, the original Vet System at launch wasn't. Start over in another starting zone only everything is leveled higher...Why am I in another race's starting zone? Does it make sense? Nope.... Solves a problem at some level but ruins immersion..
MMOs are social games. Yes, there needs to be solo content too but failing to create a game that allows for good social cooperative gameplay is to fail at creating a successful game. Anyone want to have the group finder debate again? Don't include one. Limit your player base; many of whom are casual and are looking for this. I'm a former hardcore gamer who got older, got a job, got a family and has less time to play than I did in my 20s. Yes, I became casual. Games are still my passion but I can't log in 60 hours a week. I represent a large demographic.
I think the environment has changed a lot over the years. I used to like to play support classes a lot for example. I had an illusionist in EQ2 who could CC everything so we could focus-kill mobs.. Wouldn't even try that today. First, most game mechanics would exclude most class abilities working on "bosses," and the player base would just DPS everything breaking your CC. I would be miserable playing such a class and PUGs would kick you from groups opting for another class that does more damage (HULK SMASH!) Today's MMOs are more generic with the Tank, DPS, Healer roles pretty clearly defined. Some games have changed that up a bit with the "everyone has a self heal" idea but for the most part this is where it stands and I don't see it changing in the near team. Makes for a less interesting experience overall.
The endgame argument is interesting too. Too often developers cater to this crowd; e.g. "the games sucks. I got to max level in 3 days and now there is nothing to do..." This is a demographic you cannot please. While it is valid to recognize a game can launch without enough content, you can't please everyone and trying usually results in failure.
I do know this. Our hobby needs a new spark; something revolutionary. We need a different take on the experience vs. another clone.
Agree with many of the posters here. Why did soccer (Football) not really catch on here for years? Not enough stats! We like stats! Vertical progression FTW. ...
Not sure why you bring up Soccer as a stat example here, as soccer playing continents makes up the majority of players. The sale stats is something like 45% North America vs 55% Europe, without South America into the equation.
Comments
I'm one of those people who rush to the endgame (or, i did when I still played MMOs). The reason wasn't because I wanted to rush, or be first, or get the best gear. I rushed because the leveling process in most MMOs just absolutely sucks! The storylines are almost always extremely generic, bland and uninteresting. I've simply read too many books to be impressed by generic writing so the story can't hook me. Combine that with how easy most MMOs are during the leveling process and all you get is a leveling experience completely devoid of fun.
So yes, I rush the leveling process, not because I want to, but because the leveling process usually sucks and I want to get to the content I enjoy.
Back to the OP, I'm in the same boat. SW:TOR was the straw that finally broke my MMO back. I realised I was paying a monthly subscription for a game that sucked in every single possible way and the only reason I was subscribing was because of my guild.
As for why it's so hard to find an MMO to stick with? This is going to be purely subjective as clearly a lot of other people can still find mmos they want to play. For me, it is about finding the right work / life / fun balance. MMOs can take up a lot of time and I certainly get addicted to them. So, I made a promise to myself that I wouldn't play any more MMOs unless the MMO in question met some basic criteria which would allow me to have long term fun. My criteria is as follows:
Over the last three years since I quit SW:TOR, no MMO has offered these four criteria as features of their game and so I haven't played an MMO beyond beta testing. TESO came very close: it had the IP, the pvp and the horizontal progression, but the combat was just really sluggish and dull. I still hope to find a good MMO in the future to play....
I can certainly find elements to criticize, but at the same time nearly each mmo I have played seems to bring something fresh and interesting to the table, or at least refines what came before it. I feel like we are in the golden age of mmos, with several amazing looking titles in the works and a solid backlog of great mmos to choose from right now.
Perhaps my problem is that I among the 99% of gamers who are entitlement brats and think they deserve a first place medal simply for existing? Maybe if I was one of the 1% of the big boys and girls I would also hate most mmos?
Combat, crafting, aesthetics ...
The only single thing I'm looking for is that it is a persistent world to live inn.
Archage got close before release and Guild Wars 2 is arguably the closest we have right now.
I feel really sad for the generation that has never gotten the experience of meeting someone random
in the middle of no where and actually started talking because there were no one else around.
Or server known names/players, not because they are on a list somewhere,
not because they have participated in global chat, but because everyone knows who they are.
All the social aspects of a virtual world seems lost to me.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
It's like if you stripped away something from a newer MMO it wouldn't really matter because everything is their own separate 'game' if you know what I mean?
Even though you don't notice it when playing. It is sacrificing the "persistent world" element for the "single player" element.
You used to be able to return to an area and find the same players in that area, because you knew that area were those players favorite spot.
I think I might have to check out EverQuest 2 Time Locked, as mentioned.
But I don't have much faith in the company that runs the game, so it would not surprise me if they shut down the server without notification, because of shifting focus. So I'm not sure I'm willing to invents a whole lot of time into it because of uncertainty.
Also it would matter if you stripped something from some newer mmos- eg take out pvp from ESO, ouch.
A part of it may be the expected length of enjoyment.
I don't, and never have, game hopped. When I play an MMO, its for a minimum of 6 months but what I'm looking for is a proper home, somewhere I can establish my guild, play and have fun for years.
The evolution of the themepark MMO has been away from long term sustained enjoyment and towards shorter, more bitesized pieces of enjoyment. Combine that with the overall dumbing down of MMOs and the result is I am unable to enjoy myself for more than a few hours.
Finally, I'd just like to say that those people like me who find it hard to find a new MMO, we don't hate MMOs. On the contrary, we love MMOs (or, i guess you could say, we love the idea of mmos) which is why you see us hanging around here still! We just don't like the direction MMO development has taken which is why we struggle to find a new home. It also remains my fondest hope (however remote) than an MMO designer might one day read a suggestion of mine and for that suggestion to stick in the designers mind. I know it's unlikely to happen, but we all keep trying anyway!
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
The developers have moved on.
"They should make the kind of games we like," say Old Fossils. "They used to, way back when."
Have you ever met a corporation that consciously chooses in favor of lower profits?
"That's not FAIR!!!1one!!"
Have you ever met a corporation that cares about fairness?
"Gnashing and wailing, complaint complaint."
They can't hear you over the rustling of the cash piles. Sorry.
Take it or leave it.
Find a game you will play, or.............don't.
ArcheAge got real close in alpha, but no cigar as of yet.
I am looking forward to Black Desert, but I keep my expectations low for that one as well.
It does not matter as much if a game is PVP or not PVP. That whole discussion is like minor detail in an MMORPG, and I don't know why that discussion is hyped up so much. If I really want a PVP experience I log into Tekken, every MOBA or MMO pvp is a shadow of an experience compared to that.
I can even forgive quest hubs, and I really really really hate quest hubs.
What matters is how well the game is designed around being a virtual world, or a massive multiplayer role playing game if you like.
How well the game is designed to work as a living world.
What I do see a lot of, is players running from hub to hub, rushing through content like it is a barrier that holds them back, treating the world like a speedrun so they can get max level and pvp or raid.
I'm pretty sure many of us have at least tried to play, or are playing, games like Minecraft or ARK: Survival Evolved or Reign of Kings or Skyforge, because they have some of the elements we are looking for.
But they are fundamentally, what we call a lobby game, albeit a multiplayer game.
I remember when I used to see more than 600 active, participating, people on my screen at the same time, and I thought..
"I can't wait to see how much bigger MMOs are going to be in the next 10 years".
... If I only knew...
I'm pretty sure having 1 million players subscribe for 5 years is more profitable than having 1 million players subscribe for 1 month. Why on earth wouldn't you want to design a game for longevity?
Just because a game is designed with longevity in mind, i.e. offers long term goals, long term chances for improvement, deeper levels of satisfaction, doesn't mean it can't offer short term / bite sized content for those with short attention spans. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
Also, there are tons of corporations who conciously choose lower profits and care about fairness. Its called ethics and sustainability. Corporations more often than not choose lower profit products because they are more sustainable, or more ethically sound. So, god knows why you brought that up!
Finally, for the record, I'm not advocating a return to old school MMOs. I'm saying that the direction themepark mmos have taken is not sustainable long term and that a good developer will combine the best features from modern mmos with the best features of older mmos. Old school MMOs took up too much time and were generally really hard to get into so would never work in the modern market.
Star Citizen is a living example of a genre that has been neglected by developers for years.
Even though tho people were "screaming" for those types of games, no one was making them,
or capitalizing on that demand.
Star Citizen, success or not, proves one thing,
that people are willing to pay for even the idea of that type of game being made.
Why joystick space simulation pc games weren't capitalized on before, no one knows, the demand was there all along, but most companies decided that zombie game xxx were more popular, so we go a dozen of those instead.. (still do).
I agree that modern games have taken the wrong turn somewhere, but I think a lot of the problem is that the publishers create a game for today that will release 5 years from now. And yes, when new MMOs comes out they are often dated already and offered gameplay players would have wanted when the devs got the idea but can't really offer something new.
And when you start by copying games even older you get games that feel ancient whose gameplaywe already tired off before they even are halfways to release.
So you need to either guess what MMOs people will enjoy in the future or create something entirely new and let it finds it own market. And in either case you will need to find ways to entertain players long term. A few raids, daily quests, pet battles, garrisons and some crafting wont really do that unless you really can hook the players.
Basically do I think we need a totally new endgame, the current doesn't work any more.
If you are a person
-Big on community and do not necessarily get your jollies out of beating up on other players.
-Running dungeons and doing PvE content with groups
-Like complete control over your toon's look, identity, and power sets
You're sort of screwed. For instance BnS, one support class. One! Then you're forced to make some cute animal toon with a damn CAT to play that set. Hate that! That's just lame. In the case of that game, I get it...sort of. It's not new. Been out for awhile in the east. I am just using it to illustrate my point. In CoH, you could've been a defender or a controller. Meaning if you logged on and at that time only wanted to support (whether locking down enemies, buffing/debuffing, or healing) you could. You weren't expected to really contribute to damage or to take aggro. THEN you got to pick from like 10 or so primary AND secondary powersets. Then you could make your toon WHATEVER you wanted it to do be...animal...alien...superhero...villian...whatever! Not mention fast animations for powers that could be used while in motion in most cases. Just a dynamic and fun experience! Anyway, I'm going to develop a reputation if I"m not careful. Haha
I actually don't think we need a well known IP to be successful. In fact, many games based on well know IPs have tanked over the years (Star Trek anyone?) There does need to be some story involved; some level of immersion that makes sense beyond the "Foozle has invaded the world. You are the chosen one! (It must be my choice of clothing?) Your mission is... Blah Blah..;."
Players really need a sense of progression. Once I feel like I can't progress in a game, I check out. Level caps are OK as long as I can do some kind of alternative progression. Looking at Final Fantasy, the Armory system is kind of brilliant; progress in different classes to create jobs and mix and match some of the abilities? Nice! Looking at ESO, the original Vet System at launch wasn't. Start over in another starting zone only everything is leveled higher...Why am I in another race's starting zone? Does it make sense? Nope.... Solves a problem at some level but ruins immersion..
MMOs are social games. Yes, there needs to be solo content too but failing to create a game that allows for good social cooperative gameplay is to fail at creating a successful game. Anyone want to have the group finder debate again? Don't include one. Limit your player base; many of whom are casual and are looking for this. I'm a former hardcore gamer who got older, got a job, got a family and has less time to play than I did in my 20s. Yes, I became casual. Games are still my passion but I can't log in 60 hours a week. I represent a large demographic.
I think the environment has changed a lot over the years. I used to like to play support classes a lot for example. I had an illusionist in EQ2 who could CC everything so we could focus-kill mobs.. Wouldn't even try that today. First, most game mechanics would exclude most class abilities working on "bosses," and the player base would just DPS everything breaking your CC. I would be miserable playing such a class and PUGs would kick you from groups opting for another class that does more damage (HULK SMASH!) Today's MMOs are more generic with the Tank, DPS, Healer roles pretty clearly defined. Some games have changed that up a bit with the "everyone has a self heal" idea but for the most part this is where it stands and I don't see it changing in the near team. Makes for a less interesting experience overall.
The endgame argument is interesting too. Too often developers cater to this crowd; e.g. "the games sucks. I got to max level in 3 days and now there is nothing to do..." This is a demographic you cannot please. While it is valid to recognize a game can launch without enough content, you can't please everyone and trying usually results in failure.
I do know this. Our hobby needs a new spark; something revolutionary. We need a different take on the experience vs. another clone.
Seaspite
Playing ESO on my X-Box
Not sure why you bring up Soccer as a stat example here, as soccer playing continents makes up the majority of players.
The sale stats is something like 45% North America vs 55% Europe, without South America into the equation.