And I just spent 60 bones...

Phry

Malabooga said:

Deasant said:

I stand by what I said. Some of you are even saying you don't care if you're purchasing actual keys that were purchased with stolen credit cards. Everything I said was with the best intention. As for some of the replies, you are part of the problem and morally bankrupt.

And EU had to pass laws to battle crap these companies tried to do to their customers to protect the customers.

Laws that make TOSes null and void, laws that have to say the obvious: if you buy something its yours and they cant just take it back whenever they feel like it and that you can do with YOUR stuff whatever you want. Even sell it IF you want.

When you buy stolen, or illegally obtained gamekeys though, those laws do not protect you, which is why when people have their accounts disabled for using fraudulently obtained keys, they have no way to recoup the money they lost in buying the gamekeys from the dodgy websites as the law does not protect them in any shape or form, someone who loses access to stolen goods, no matter how much they paid for them, have no protection under consumer protection laws in any country, this includes the EU.

So if your buying a game from a site that isn't listed as an official reseller etc. you have to know that you are probably throwing your money away to no purpose, as only official resellers have access to game keys, game key resellers who aren't listed as being an official reseller can only have obtained the gamekey fraudulently, usually from stolen credit cards etc, where they are 'laundering' the money through those unofficial reseller websites.

Darkcrystal

Malabooga said:

mgilbrtsn said:

I go with the old saying "if it looks too good to be true....."  ESO + explorer pack for 10.  sounds too good to be true.  something smells fishy.  I have no data or proof or anything of the sort, but I'll stick to the saying.

Physical box keys. Try to "pirate" that.

You can go and stand in a corner for a while now.

Ill just stick to saying: market sets the price.

Companies trying to control the market wont succeed.

People like you make me sick, then you wonder why the prices go up, you sir are a prime example...  Also I bet your the first one to cry when devs cant afford to make more content and the game lacks, because you people are thieves, and yes you are...  I cant stand a thief..  Get a job .!!

Aethaeryn

SomethingUnusual said:

Malabooga said:

This have been prices for few months ( < 25 $ )

http://www.kinguin.net/category/15472/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited-digital-download-cd-key/

Hey! I dig that sight, it's like Orbitz for video games... Are the resellers/shops listed decently trustworthy?

Edit: I notice the ratings listed... Question still stands though.

If you look at the bottom of most of those sites (by clicking 'go to store' you will notice that they are all "powered by kinguin" and look exactly the same.  It could be that they are locally owned but if they aren't owned by Kinguin directly they are basically franchise types of things.

I trust GreenMan, GoG and Direct2Drive .  I have a friend that bought from Kinguin and had no problems, just don't buy from their market unless you get their guarantee.  The odd stolen key has been offered by the community there.

Malabooga

Torval said:

Malabooga said:

Torval said:

No, that's not true at all. What Zenimax want is authorized outlets selling legitimate keys to players with legitimate payment options. What they don't want are people selling legit keys purchased with credit cards that do chargebacks after the fact or from fraudulent credit cards where vendor will do a chargeback. That's why they say buy from a legit source because you know those keys are first generation. It's not really that convoluted and they don't care what those legit sources sell at as long as ZO gets their agreed upon fee for the key. This is true for any software company that sells keys through authorized retailers.

Theft will always happen, just as botting, hacking and cheating. Its large minority of what happens. Its like saying you wont go to local sotres because "there might be some stolen goods there because one shop sold one item that turned out to be stolen".

Or that ZOS should punish ALL players playing the game if they catch someone botting, hacking or cheating. They should just ban ALL accounts, because, everyone is potential botter/cheater/hacker/gold sellser or w/e. amiright?

They DO dictate prices to "authorized resellers". Thats why they are "authorized resellers", they have to listen to whatever zenimax tells them. Or they wont be "authorized resellers" any more. And they have to buy keys for whatever Zenimax wants to sell them for. Which was (is) very expencive for very long.

Becuase guess what - "authorized reseller" can go to Walmart <or insert whatever chain you want>, pick up game for 5-10$ and sell them online for 10-20$ or sell RU versions which are half the price (REGULAR price) of western versions or sell keys you picked up on steam sale for that price all year long.

Authorized digital reseller also doesnt have storage full of unsold boxes that they cant sell. Storage costs. A LOT.

You're just making stupid stuff up now.

It's like saying buy at the store that has a business relationship with the manufacturer and not the sketchy guy on the street corner selling rolex watches for $10. The retail store really has rolex watches and if they try and sell fakes and get caught they'll go to jail. They're easily audited. That's why you buy from authorized resellers. Are you trying to be obtuse about this?

It's nothing like saying they should ban all players. Again you made up silly crap that has nothing to do with the discussion to try and reinforce a point you don't have.

I don't know the business agreement between ZO and their resellers any more than you do. I do know that they seem to have the freedom to put keys on sales. That seems to imply that there is a base price they must pay ZO for a transaction and they can cut into their profit to try and sell more keys than the competition. It's almost like capitalism or something crazy like that.

No, an authorized reseller cannot go to Walmart, buy keys, and sell them on the cheap. They sure can't do that with RU keys because if you knew anything about what you were talking about you would know those are the very keys that got the accounts locked. So please just stop making silly stuff up now. You're just wrong.

What, you dont agree with your own argument? Surprise, surprise.

Wow, rolexes, how about potatoes. Did you check every single potato you bought/ate if it wasnt stolen maybe? Did retailer paid its taxes, have books clean etc. etc.

Whatever agreement they have, they all get keys at same price, PRICE SET BY ZENIMAX, NOT market. RETAIL reflects REAL market price.

RU keys are valid. You have NO idea what you talk about.

Malabooga

Phry said:

Malabooga said:

Deasant said:

I stand by what I said. Some of you are even saying you don't care if you're purchasing actual keys that were purchased with stolen credit cards. Everything I said was with the best intention. As for some of the replies, you are part of the problem and morally bankrupt.

And EU had to pass laws to battle crap these companies tried to do to their customers to protect the customers.

Laws that make TOSes null and void, laws that have to say the obvious: if you buy something its yours and they cant just take it back whenever they feel like it and that you can do with YOUR stuff whatever you want. Even sell it IF you want.

When you buy stolen, or illegally obtained gamekeys though, those laws do not protect you, which is why when people have their accounts disabled for using fraudulently obtained keys, they have no way to recoup the money they lost in buying the gamekeys from the dodgy websites as the law does not protect them in any shape or form, someone who loses access to stolen goods, no matter how much they paid for them, have no protection under consumer protection laws in any country, this includes the EU.

So if your buying a game from a site that isn't listed as an official reseller etc. you have to know that you are probably throwing your money away to no purpose, as only official resellers have access to game keys, game key resellers who aren't listed as being an official reseller can only have obtained the gamekey fraudulently, usually from stolen credit cards etc, where they are 'laundering' the money through those unofficial reseller websites.

Bunch of poo. So key cannot get to be sold on net unless its bought by stolen credit card.

hey, i have a bunch of unused humble bundle keys. YEAH, im laundering my money

rofl

where do you guys pop out from?

If it was such a consipracy it would be dealt with long long time ago, go ahead, make a case at court, seems you you have a winner here.

Aethaeryn

-Seller sells retail for what the market will pay
-Buy retail copy from a  country where the local currency is worth nothing compared to US dollars
-Sell retail key to US consumers for less than it sells for in the US (make money)

This is why they are starting to region lock games again and locking down on steam "gifting".

Example: 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/209650/discussions/0/613940109917221687/

If there are instructions on how to activate it using a VPN, don't do it.  You could lose it later.

Malabooga

Darkcrystal said:

Malabooga said:

mgilbrtsn said:

I go with the old saying "if it looks too good to be true....."  ESO + explorer pack for 10.  sounds too good to be true.  something smells fishy.  I have no data or proof or anything of the sort, but I'll stick to the saying.

Physical box keys. Try to "pirate" that.

You can go and stand in a corner for a while now.

Ill just stick to saying: market sets the price.

Companies trying to control the market wont succeed.

People like you make me sick, then you wonder why the prices go up, you sir are a prime example...  Also I bet your the first one to cry when devs cant afford to make more content and the game lacks, because you people are thieves, and yes you are...  I cant stand a thief..  Get a job .!!

Actually anyome can buy ESO cheap. You cant game the market. Unless youre one of those special people who can buy a country at a whim.

cant stand idiots...get a brain?

Malabooga

Rhoklaw said:

@Malabooga I'm going to assume you are not from the US. Your lack of understanding of some basic laws is evident as you have blatantly pointed out that you knowingly purchase illegal goods because you want to save money. No offense, do what you want, but don't come crying here or on an official game forum when that company jacks your account cause you're cheap. By the way, what exactly do you mean when you say the market sets the prices? That's not how the world works. The company that makes the product sets the price, which is usually based off of supply and demand.

Knowingly buy?

prove it. prove those are illegal or stolen.

You want to protect companies controling the market. Theres STRICT rules about that, and in this case market took care of itself as it isnt really a big deal.

And yes, i SPECIFICALLY said EU, not US which through corrupted legislation protects coorportaions (read: rich people who donate to politics). Do i have to remind you of Intel and Microsoft EU verdicst about their "awesome" business practices and how much they were fined? Practices that are STILL unobtrused in US. And thats just tip of the iceberg.

Market sets the price. I can put billion $ tag on my worn out sneakers, but, unless theres someone WILLING to part with billion dollars, thats all i can to, put a price tag on it.

If theres noone willing to buy your product at a price you set, well, QQ. Retail ESO boxes were 10-20$ for a reason. At which point zenimax STILL held price at 60$.

Aethaeryn

Malabooga said:

Phry said:

Malabooga said:

Deasant said:

I stand by what I said. Some of you are even saying you don't care if you're purchasing actual keys that were purchased with stolen credit cards. Everything I said was with the best intention. As for some of the replies, you are part of the problem and morally bankrupt.

And EU had to pass laws to battle crap these companies tried to do to their customers to protect the customers.

Laws that make TOSes null and void, laws that have to say the obvious: if you buy something its yours and they cant just take it back whenever they feel like it and that you can do with YOUR stuff whatever you want. Even sell it IF you want.

When you buy stolen, or illegally obtained gamekeys though, those laws do not protect you, which is why when people have their accounts disabled for using fraudulently obtained keys, they have no way to recoup the money they lost in buying the gamekeys from the dodgy websites as the law does not protect them in any shape or form, someone who loses access to stolen goods, no matter how much they paid for them, have no protection under consumer protection laws in any country, this includes the EU.

So if your buying a game from a site that isn't listed as an official reseller etc. you have to know that you are probably throwing your money away to no purpose, as only official resellers have access to game keys, game key resellers who aren't listed as being an official reseller can only have obtained the gamekey fraudulently, usually from stolen credit cards etc, where they are 'laundering' the money through those unofficial reseller websites.

Bunch of poo. So key cannot get to be sold on net unless its bought by stolen credit card.

hey, i have a bunch of unused humble bundle keys. YEAH, im laundering my money

rofl

where do you guys pop out from?

If it was such a consipracy it would be dealt with long long time ago, go ahead, make a case at court, seems you you have a winner here.

He's right in a sense.  The number one complaint people have about Steam. . people who seem to hate it is because if you have one problem they can lock out your entire account and there is nothing you can do about it.

It does violate agreements.  I don't think there is likely to ever be a legal case about since it is End user License agreement stuff.

It does cost developers (or at least distributers) money and that does hurt the industry.  If you live in Canada you can buy "illegal" cigarettes from a reserve that gets them from the US cheaper to avoid taxes etc.  They have charged people with that.  it is very similar.

It is also being dealt with.  it is just hard to fix because of VPNs.  Also if you look at Microsoft's new EULA they can now disable programs that they deem to be "illegal" etc. that are running on your computer (if you use Windows 10).  You can get it cheap now but you might lose it and all of your games on that service later.  There are enough cheap deals on steam and greenman etc that you don't need to buy something that is a russian retail key to save another 5-10 dollars.

Malabooga

Aethaeryn said:

Malabooga said:

Phry said:

Malabooga said:

Deasant said:

I stand by what I said. Some of you are even saying you don't care if you're purchasing actual keys that were purchased with stolen credit cards. Everything I said was with the best intention. As for some of the replies, you are part of the problem and morally bankrupt.

And EU had to pass laws to battle crap these companies tried to do to their customers to protect the customers.

Laws that make TOSes null and void, laws that have to say the obvious: if you buy something its yours and they cant just take it back whenever they feel like it and that you can do with YOUR stuff whatever you want. Even sell it IF you want.

When you buy stolen, or illegally obtained gamekeys though, those laws do not protect you, which is why when people have their accounts disabled for using fraudulently obtained keys, they have no way to recoup the money they lost in buying the gamekeys from the dodgy websites as the law does not protect them in any shape or form, someone who loses access to stolen goods, no matter how much they paid for them, have no protection under consumer protection laws in any country, this includes the EU.

So if your buying a game from a site that isn't listed as an official reseller etc. you have to know that you are probably throwing your money away to no purpose, as only official resellers have access to game keys, game key resellers who aren't listed as being an official reseller can only have obtained the gamekey fraudulently, usually from stolen credit cards etc, where they are 'laundering' the money through those unofficial reseller websites.

Bunch of poo. So key cannot get to be sold on net unless its bought by stolen credit card.

hey, i have a bunch of unused humble bundle keys. YEAH, im laundering my money

rofl

where do you guys pop out from?

If it was such a consipracy it would be dealt with long long time ago, go ahead, make a case at court, seems you you have a winner here.

He's right in a sense.  The number one complaint people have about Steam. . people who seem to hate it is because if you have one problem they can lock out your entire account and there is nothing you can do about it.

It does violate agreements.  I don't think there is likely to ever be a legal case about since it is End user License agreement stuff.

It does cost developers (or at least distributers) money and that does hurt the industry.  If you live in Canada you can buy "illegal" cigarettes from a reserve that gets them from the US cheaper to avoid taxes etc.  They have charged people with that.  it is very similar.

It is also being dealt with.  it is just hard to fix because of VPNs.  Also if you look at Microsoft's new EULA they can now disable programs that they deem to be "illegal" etc. that are running on your computer (if you use Windows 10).  You can get it cheap now but you might lose it and all of your games on that service later.  There are enough cheap deals on steam and greenman etc that you don't need to buy something that is a russian retail key to save another 5-10 dollars.

Move to EU. TOSes, EULAs, nah. Those are for US. And scaring stoopid people.

Distributors are hurt because of piles of unsold boxes laying in their storage that noone wants to buy.

If they send them back to publisher then PUBLISHER now has bunch of boxes which he needs to store or destroy alongwith additional shipping costs.

You know what hurts them both? bad games that dont sell. That incur additional large costs just by taking storage space.

And those sold are NOT RU retail keys, those are western keys. Boxes that neither publisher or distributor wants any more. Unwanted goods. That cost A LOT just to sit there.

THATS why they end up in baragin bins for 5-10$. All the while Zenimax delusionally holding digital price at 60$. And "gracefully" have "sale" at 40$ rofl

They are actually doing a FAVOR to both publisher and retail chains by taking those boxes off their hands.

And now youre saying we should buy digital for 60$? yeah, no.

Console boxes on Amazon are already 40$. Digital - still 60$. And market? <25$

Distopia

Phry said:

When you buy stolen, or illegally obtained gamekeys though, those laws do not protect you, which is why when people have their accounts disabled for using fraudulently obtained keys, they have no way to recoup the money they lost in buying the gamekeys from the

Yes they do, G2A as an example has their shield option which does protect you from a fraudulent sale for the most part, depending on the situation/game they'll either refund or give you a new key. It seems most here read one article about an issue (ESO)... and make blanket generalizations based on that from there on out.

Aethaeryn

Malabooga said:

Aethaeryn said:

Malabooga said:

Phry said:

Malabooga said:

Deasant said:

I stand by what I said. Some of you are even saying you don't care if you're purchasing actual keys that were purchased with stolen credit cards. Everything I said was with the best intention. As for some of the replies, you are part of the problem and morally bankrupt.

And EU had to pass laws to battle crap these companies tried to do to their customers to protect the customers.

Laws that make TOSes null and void, laws that have to say the obvious: if you buy something its yours and they cant just take it back whenever they feel like it and that you can do with YOUR stuff whatever you want. Even sell it IF you want.

When you buy stolen, or illegally obtained gamekeys though, those laws do not protect you, which is why when people have their accounts disabled for using fraudulently obtained keys, they have no way to recoup the money they lost in buying the gamekeys from the dodgy websites as the law does not protect them in any shape or form, someone who loses access to stolen goods, no matter how much they paid for them, have no protection under consumer protection laws in any country, this includes the EU.

So if your buying a game from a site that isn't listed as an official reseller etc. you have to know that you are probably throwing your money away to no purpose, as only official resellers have access to game keys, game key resellers who aren't listed as being an official reseller can only have obtained the gamekey fraudulently, usually from stolen credit cards etc, where they are 'laundering' the money through those unofficial reseller websites.

Bunch of poo. So key cannot get to be sold on net unless its bought by stolen credit card.

hey, i have a bunch of unused humble bundle keys. YEAH, im laundering my money

rofl

where do you guys pop out from?

If it was such a consipracy it would be dealt with long long time ago, go ahead, make a case at court, seems you you have a winner here.

He's right in a sense.  The number one complaint people have about Steam. . people who seem to hate it is because if you have one problem they can lock out your entire account and there is nothing you can do about it.

It does violate agreements.  I don't think there is likely to ever be a legal case about since it is End user License agreement stuff.

It does cost developers (or at least distributers) money and that does hurt the industry.  If you live in Canada you can buy "illegal" cigarettes from a reserve that gets them from the US cheaper to avoid taxes etc.  They have charged people with that.  it is very similar.

It is also being dealt with.  it is just hard to fix because of VPNs.  Also if you look at Microsoft's new EULA they can now disable programs that they deem to be "illegal" etc. that are running on your computer (if you use Windows 10).  You can get it cheap now but you might lose it and all of your games on that service later.  There are enough cheap deals on steam and greenman etc that you don't need to buy something that is a russian retail key to save another 5-10 dollars.

Move to EU. TOSes, EULAs, nah. Those are for US. And scaring stoopid people.

Distributors are hurt because of piles of unsold boxes laying in their storage that noone wants to buy.

If they send them back to publisher then PUBLISHER now has bunch of boxes which he needs to store or destroy alongwith additional shipping costs.

You know what hurts them both? bad games that dont sell. That incur additional large costs just by taking storage space.

And those sold are NOT RU retail keys, those are western keys. Boxes that neither publisher or distributor wants any more. Unwanted goods. That cost A LOT just to sit there.

THATS why they end up in baragin bins for 5-10$. All the while Zenimax delusionally holding digital price at 60$. And "gracefully" have "sale" at 40$ rofl

They are actually doing a FAVOR to both publisher and retail chains by taking those boxes off their hands.

And now youre saying we should buy digital for 60$? yeah, no.

Console boxes on Amazon are already 40$. Digital - still 60$. And market? <25$

It is possible that some of them might just be the new version of bargain bins.  That makes sense.  That doesn't mean that some of them aren't stolen or Russian or whatever.  The point is that if you don't know the site or company you are buying it from you take risks.  

SomethingUnusual

It's amazing that my simple comment of how I had just bought the game off a retail shelf, only to find it a few days later online at a lower price started the world war of online store gimmicks. Have fun? 

Amana

This has gone from pricing to resellers to piracy, to politics and world issues. Closing it up.