FFA PvP will always murder your game. That's why "old school" players don't really get into any of these titles.
When this latest gimmicky round of PvP offerings finally peters out, we may get people sitting down and saying, ok what can we do to take things to the next level. In the meantime we get this fantasy belief that PvP can fix a game's population.
Strange?
I know a LOT of old school gamers that love a FFA PVP game and loathe 100% pure carebear titles...
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
The only consistency with OW FFA PvPers in OW FFA PvP games is the excuses as to why all of them fail. There is no such animal as a good OW FFA PvP game. It's not the game that fails because as you have so eloquently stated many of them offer exactly what these hardcore OW FFA PvPers want on paper. The obvious cause of their failure is the inherently flawed foundational game play mechanic and the toxic communities they ultimately breed.
That might be your opinion i happen to like OW FFA PVP games more than any other type of game.. certainly when it comes to MMORPGS standard themeparks make me go to sleep.
Yes OW FFA PVP will never be as popular as themepark MMOS but that does not make them a failure. thats like saying a Seafood pizza is a failure because more people like a standard cheese pizza..
OW FFA PvP games are failures because they have no record of sustainable success. When any business, irrespective of their product, fails to establish any record of sustainable success, they are deemed a failure. Keeping a business venture going, despite the fact that the product garner's very little support much less growth is not an indication of success, its an indication of stubborn determination. This is often the case with many bankrupt business owners, or developers in this case, when the better investment recourse would have been to cut their losses and turned the corner toward a more profitable business or investment venture.
MO is a failure because it is a garbage game run by a bad company. Both Darkfalls were failures because they were poorly made, by a lying developer. Earthrise "released" 80% finished and crashed hard.
EvE has been successful because it was well made and is run by a good company, that does not treat its customers badly.
Badly made games, done by badly run companies, are bad.
I think you just have to look at the survival games to know
that ffa pvp games can be profitable.
I tried MO when I saw it release on steam and played it for
a week and enjoyed it and even subbed for a month but then I started thinking
that the game isn’t worth that amount of money. This is not that I cant afford
to play the game but more that I have other games that are just as enjoyable on
my steam account that offer similar gameplay that I don’t have to pay monthly. With
the steam release they should have made it b2p.
So I would have stayed if it was not charging me $15 a
month, or whatever the sub costs.
EvE successful as is not many game like it, MO is noting like EvE other then maybe the pvp system you die people and take your stuff?
EvE is the answer to all the people that say FFA PvP can never work.
My point is that the failures of the FFA PvP games of the last several years lay in the fact that they were bad games and/or badly run, more than FFA PvP games, as the primary reasons for their failures. MO, DF1/2, POTBS, ER are examples.
Plenty of themepark games have failed for the same reasons.
MO is a failure because it is a garbage game run by a bad company. Both Darkfalls were failures because they were poorly made, by a lying developer. Earthrise "released" 80% finished and crashed hard.
EvE has been successful because it was well made and is run by a good company, that does not treat its customers badly.
Badly made games, done by badly run companies, are bad.
That is the only thing you can say.
The main reason for Eve's success is that it launched at a time where a company could get away with these things. All you damn MO for EVE has had a problem with in it's lifespan.
GM's giving guilds advantages, horrible product at launch etc...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't understand why old school hardcore mmo players don't seem to get into this game. It seems to have all the elements I see on peoples wish lists here- sandbox, harsh death penalties, deep crafting/customization, meaningful world, best played in groups, etc.
Animation leaves a lot to be desired.
Gameplay now is more about turtling up in self-sufficient towns.
Existing guilds are very entrenched and not much room for a new guild to grow.
Solo play and small guilds really don't have much of a place in the game.
Very few in-game events for holidays, lore, weekends, etc.
No advertising, so people who may like it may not even know it exists
New features and updates are few and far between
There are a lot of great aspects to Mortal Online, and you list many of them, but there are also some dealbreakers, too.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
EvE successful as is not many game like it, MO is noting like EvE other then maybe the pvp system you die people and take your stuff?
EvE is the answer to all the people that say FFA PvP can never work.
My point is that the failures of the FFA PvP games of the last several years lay in the fact that they were bad games and/or badly run, more than FFA PvP games, as the primary reasons for their failures. MO, DF1/2, POTBS, ER are examples.
Plenty of themepark games have failed for the same reasons.
Bad games are bad.
Eve is successful because it has garnered the support of the entirety of players that would support an OW FFA PvP game. It has less to do with the quality of its game play mechanics and a lot more to do with the fact that it is the one and only. In other words, it has very little competition in its genre so it keeps the small niche base of players that go for that type of game play. A fast food franchise would be equally as successful if it was the only one selling Balut Burgers in the USA.
EvE successful as is not many game like it, MO is noting like EvE other then maybe the pvp system you die people and take your stuff?
EvE is the answer to all the people that say FFA PvP can never work.
My point is that the failures of the FFA PvP games of the last several years lay in the fact that they were bad games and/or badly run, more than FFA PvP games, as the primary reasons for their failures. MO, DF1/2, POTBS, ER are examples.
Plenty of themepark games have failed for the same reasons.
Bad games are bad.
Eve is successful because it has garnered the support of the entirety of players that would support an OW FFA PvP game. It has less to do with the quality of its game play mechanics and a lot more to do with the fact that it is the one and only. In other words, it has very little competition in its genre so it keeps the small niche base of players that go for that type of game play. A fast food franchise would be equally as successful if it was the only one selling Balut Burgers in the USA.
Perhaps.
But were it as poorly run as MO or the others I mentioned, and of equally poor quality, I do not think people would have been as supportive (at least after the first year, it was a little rough then).
CCP was equally committed to "cleaning up", improving, and expanding EvE as well as not gouging their playerbase (just the opposite in fact). Things that the jokers running MO have clearly not been committed to doing: this thing has been a mess for the 6 years it has been charging a sub, and has not substantially improved over that time, either.
So, while high quality game play and support might not be the prime reason for success (of EvE), bad quality game play and lack of support can certainly be a huge reason for failure (of all the others mentioned).
MO is a failure because it is a garbage game run by a bad company. Both Darkfalls were failures because they were poorly made, by a lying developer. Earthrise "released" 80% finished and crashed hard.
EvE has been successful because it was well made and is run by a good company, that does not treat its customers badly.
Badly made games, done by badly run companies, are bad.
That is the only thing you can say.
There are many reasons games fail and those games are no exceptions. There are some games which are bad and turn themselves around, and there are good games that manage to turn themselves bad.
Eve is successful because it has garnered the support of the entirety of players that would support an OW FFA PvP game.
Minus the ones that
prefer being an avatar
prefer other themes/settings
prefer to have a completely safe zone somewhere in game
prefer non-destructible gear
prefer twitch combat or a different type of tactical combat
prefer different drop-on-death or looting rule
prefer individual player housing or a different housing approach than the one in EVE
It seems a bit of an extreme to suggest that everyone that would support an OW FFA PVP game is playing EVE, no?
Post edited by Loktofeit on
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Been playing for two weeks now. Mortal Online is breath of fresh fucking air.
It's like the first MMO I've played in forever that has some serious balls and doesn't insult my intelligence. It quite literally just shows you how to move, swing your weapon, skin a pig, then kicks you out into the world with no other direction beyond "Go explore and figure stuff"
It's also the first time I've seen a GM just straight up drop truth instead of catering to whining. Dude complained about how a mounted red player kept killing him as he tried to leave Morin Khur. GM told him that he should stop doing the same exact thing and expecting different results. Why didn't he go buy an messing axe off the broker so he could fight back? Or just take the mountain path instead since mounts can't climb large hills or mountains
Gave Wildstar a try and I couldn't get into it. It just felt so simplistic and linear compared to MO
The main reason for Eve's success is that it launched at a time where a company could get away with these things. All you damn MO for EVE has had a problem with in it's lifespan.
GM's giving guilds advantages, horrible product at launch etc...
Even if ignoring that, the main reason why Eve can be considered successful was simply that it wasn't cripplingly buggy more than anything, and when there are such bugs they don't leave it for years on end (that I know of).
MO and Darkfall was just, plain, badly managed more than anything.
Been playing for two weeks now. Mortal Online is breath of fresh fucking air.
It's like the first MMO I've played in forever that has some serious balls and doesn't insult my intelligence. It quite literally just shows you how to move, swing your weapon, skin a pig, then kicks you out into the world with no other direction beyond "Go explore and figure stuff"
I see people are still confusing challenging with bad UX.. MO is not challenging. The only reason it feels harder than say Wildstar is because they could not afford, neither were they really interested in, having proper user friendly UI, introduction and game design.
Sure, I don't really like drawn out and forced tutorials either, I want to just go out in the world and explore. Sadly, MO is just bad at everything but sandbox hungry gamers incorrectly perceive that as challenging.
The highest day count was 1000 when it launched on steam and now its is already down to less than 500. Guess the Steam launch was not the savior people though it was going to be.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
This should really be a good point for other games to take notice. All the hype and exposure in the world will not help you if people simply do not like your game.
It's not about "haters". It's not about getting on Steam. It's about making a game that people find to be fun and worthwhile.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Average steam players for the last 30 days is 338, Peak players is 557. I can honestly not wait to see the word play the CEO uses in the next financial report or his next big idea to attract players. He was touting the big steam release for 2 years.
On the positive side, they might have actually had a profitable quarter from the initial rush to try the game in its first month but I'm not holding my breath.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Comments
I know a LOT of old school gamers that love a FFA PVP game and loathe 100% pure carebear titles...
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
OW FFA PvP games are failures because they have no record of sustainable success. When any business, irrespective of their product, fails to establish any record of sustainable success, they are deemed a failure. Keeping a business venture going, despite the fact that the product garner's very little support much less growth is not an indication of success, its an indication of stubborn determination. This is often the case with many bankrupt business owners, or developers in this case, when the better investment recourse would have been to cut their losses and turned the corner toward a more profitable business or investment venture.
Both Darkfalls were failures because they were poorly made, by a lying developer.
Earthrise "released" 80% finished and crashed hard.
EvE has been successful because it was well made and is run by a good company, that does not treat its customers badly.
Badly made games, done by badly run companies, are bad.
That is the only thing you can say.
I think you just have to look at the survival games to know that ffa pvp games can be profitable.
I tried MO when I saw it release on steam and played it for a week and enjoyed it and even subbed for a month but then I started thinking that the game isn’t worth that amount of money. This is not that I cant afford to play the game but more that I have other games that are just as enjoyable on my steam account that offer similar gameplay that I don’t have to pay monthly. With the steam release they should have made it b2p.
So I would have stayed if it was not charging me $15 a month, or whatever the sub costs.
My point is that the failures of the FFA PvP games of the last several years lay in the fact that they were bad games and/or badly run, more than FFA PvP games, as the primary reasons for their failures. MO, DF1/2, POTBS, ER are examples.
Plenty of themepark games have failed for the same reasons.
Bad games are bad.
That's cute.
I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.
Current: Dragonrealms
GM's giving guilds advantages, horrible product at launch etc...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
There are a lot of great aspects to Mortal Online, and you list many of them, but there are also some dealbreakers, too.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Eve is successful because it has garnered the support of the entirety of players that would support an OW FFA PvP game. It has less to do with the quality of its game play mechanics and a lot more to do with the fact that it is the one and only. In other words, it has very little competition in its genre so it keeps the small niche base of players that go for that type of game play. A fast food franchise would be equally as successful if it was the only one selling Balut Burgers in the USA.
But were it as poorly run as MO or the others I mentioned, and of equally poor quality, I do not think people would have been as supportive (at least after the first year, it was a little rough then).
CCP was equally committed to "cleaning up", improving, and expanding EvE as well as not gouging their playerbase (just the opposite in fact). Things that the jokers running MO have clearly not been committed to doing: this thing has been a mess for the 6 years it has been charging a sub, and has not substantially improved over that time, either.
So, while high quality game play and support might not be the prime reason for success (of EvE), bad quality game play and lack of support can certainly be a huge reason for failure (of all the others mentioned).
I self identify as a monkey.
It seems a bit of an extreme to suggest that everyone that would support an OW FFA PVP game is playing EVE, no?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It's like the first MMO I've played in forever that has some serious balls and doesn't insult my intelligence. It quite literally just shows you how to move, swing your weapon, skin a pig, then kicks you out into the world with no other direction beyond "Go explore and figure stuff"
It's also the first time I've seen a GM just straight up drop truth instead of catering to whining. Dude complained about how a mounted red player kept killing him as he tried to leave Morin Khur. GM told him that he should stop doing the same exact thing and expecting different results. Why didn't he go buy an messing axe off the broker so he could fight back? Or just take the mountain path instead since mounts can't climb large hills or mountains
Gave Wildstar a try and I couldn't get into it. It just felt so simplistic and linear compared to MO
MO and Darkfall was just, plain, badly managed more than anything.
Sure, I don't really like drawn out and forced tutorials either, I want to just go out in the world and explore. Sadly, MO is just bad at everything but sandbox hungry gamers incorrectly perceive that as challenging.
That's honestly higher than I expected. Wonder how many are subs.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Anyone else seeing a certain trend?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
This should really be a good point for other games to take notice. All the hype and exposure in the world will not help you if people simply do not like your game.
It's not about "haters". It's not about getting on Steam. It's about making a game that people find to be fun and worthwhile.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
On the positive side, they might have actually had a profitable quarter from the initial rush to try the game in its first month but I'm not holding my breath.