None of what this is stating is true. Gambling on rune slots is just that, it's gambling. You don't NEED to min-max every piece of your gear to be competitive in raids or high level dungeons. Dungeon gear and runes will take you all the way into raids and what you find there will take you through to the rest of the content. If you want to have an edge over people (and who cares, really? You might deal another 10-50k damage than the guy next to you, but there's 20 man raids. You aren't carrying the group.) sure. Waste your money or grind out gold for that if that's what you want. It's not pay to win at all. It's pay to min-max. You can be perfectly fine with what you find in game and follow the natural progression of items and play all the way and on up into the latest content/raids without issue.
The only REAL problem right now is drop rates. Those need to be looked at for rune fragments of certain types.
You forgetting one key factor those who do spend more will out perform you, and that is a basic pay to win advantage method. People do notice when your playing the same class/builds and someone is out performing you in pve and pvp.
None of what this is stating is true. Gambling on rune slots is just that, it's gambling. You don't NEED to min-max every piece of your gear to be competitive in raids or high level dungeons. Dungeon gear and runes will take you all the way into raids and what you find there will take you through to the rest of the content. If you want to have an edge over people (and who cares, really? You might deal another 10-50k damage than the guy next to you, but there's 20 man raids. You aren't carrying the group.) sure. Waste your money or grind out gold for that if that's what you want. It's not pay to win at all. It's pay to min-max. You can be perfectly fine with what you find in game and follow the natural progression of items and play all the way and on up into the latest content/raids without issue.
The only REAL problem right now is drop rates. Those need to be looked at for rune fragments of certain types.
You forgetting one key factor those who do spend more will out perform you, and that is a basic pay to win advantage method. People do notice when your playing the same class/builds and someone is out performing you in pve and pvp.
Wild star is def pay 2 win. Just apparently people get offended if you call the game they are playing that, and try to tell every one it isnt.
As for me, I am done with MMOs. They are all garbage, cash shop, pay 2 win, players selling, money wasting garbage pits. I am going with smaller based games, like arma 3 epoch. Where I make sure there is no pay 2 win, because i run the server. Rather play with 1 person, then 10000 credit card warriors. It is a shame too, that server runs like 40 a month, plus another server to deal with the AI. To bad MMO just didnt raise the fee to 20-40 a month, instead of this garbage system they created.
Ah, hiding the pay-to-win behind a gambling system. Judging by the people in this thread arguing "It's not pay to win!", it seems it still works to this day, unsurprisingly.
How is Wildstar pay to win? The only things available in the cash shop are vanity items and optional quality of life items (i.e. exp boost flasks, reputation flasks, etc), all the actual gear in wildstar comes from PvP and dungeons.
Wildstar honestly has one of the best F2P implementations I have seen.
How is Wildstar pay to win? The only things available in the cash shop are vanity items and optional quality of life items (i.e. exp boost flasks, reputation flasks, etc), all the actual gear in wildstar comes from PvP and dungeons.
Wildstar honestly has one of the best F2P implementations I have seen.
The stuff in the cash shop are not all vanity items. As far as gear goes, its linked to crafting and runes. Yeah you can get everything in game, but it will take you a seriously long time. I see your definition of p2w, is if they use no tactics, and are totally stupid, and just put obvious stuff like 100 bucks, you get a super weapon no one else can.
Ah, hiding the pay-to-win behind a gambling system. Judging by the people in this thread arguing "It's not pay to win!", it seems it still works to this day, unsurprisingly.
Yeah, some of us just don't give a shit about that. If it's something that bothers you then it's probably not the game for you.
Yeah it def isnt, no MMO, is for me, because they are all Pay 2 Win, minus FF14, and I didn't like that game, path of exile, and ryzom.
@makasouleater69, how exactly is WoW, Wildstar, ESO, FFXIV, Terra pay to win? This game is a mix of skill based and gear based which means no amount of gear in the world is going "make you win" if you can't interrupt and stay out of poop. It's not like Archeage where the best crafted gear can basically be purchased with real life money.
You just can't win when you go F2P. They could remove everything from cash shop that people think makes the game P2W. Because then they would start complaining about how people with more time then them, have an advantage. The term P2W has become so broad in what it covers. I kid you not, by next year people with more time to play then you will be flagged as P2W.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
So instead of fixing what was wrong with the game and making it better, they just added a bunch of cash and grab crap with the time they had to fix the game. /emote "runs like hell away from Wild Star"
For people who never really played P2W games there is a little difference between pay to win and pay to faster. Here is a quick example of what I'm talking about:
Lets say I bought Sword of Might with 5$ and went to kill stuff right away, but my friend John spend a week to craft this sword instead of buying. We are equal in power in a reasonable amount of time, which I skipped with money and John enjoyed his time collecting materials and crafting. This is how to pay to faster works.
But truly P2W games uses a different approach:
If I bought Sword of Might with 5$ and went to kill stuff, so while John crafting his sword I will buy new Sword of Even more Might in shop and we will never be equal in power, no matter how hard John trying. In P2W game people who pay have more and more power as they pay more; free players exist only to give paying customers illusion that their investment actually worth.
And pay to faster it still a form of pay to win, just it is somewhat tolerable because of reasonable amount of time to catch up.
For me anything except for cosmetic stuff is a big off, they could make a lot more than clothes and mounts, like Path of Exile or DOTA have cosmetics that change skill animation a lot... but they put gambling boxes and some weird runes.. meh just meh.
So instead of fixing what was wrong with the game and making it better, they just added a bunch of cash and grab crap with the time they had to fix the game. /emote "runs like hell away from Wild Star"
That sums it up. The whole update was 100 percent based on how to make the cash shop, and make people buy the stuff in it.
So? Even before WS went F2P runes were drastically OP. Crafters would spend ages crafting and recrafting gear in hopes of getting good rune combinations, I alone must have spent and made hundreds off of it as I sold my stuff on the AH. Attaching a monetary ability to reroll on rune slots isn't surprising, I'd go as far to say it's a good (if capitalistic) idea.
WS was probably my most favorite MMO of all time, I just wish they made it 'slightly' different in the end.
Alas this seems to be the model for "success" these days, milk the whales.
I consider it the "Disney" business model. If you've ever been to Orlando on vacation you can tell everywhere you turn Mickey Mouse has his straw stuck in your wallet. IMHO, if a game can't survive on free trials and monthly subscription fees, there is something wrong with the game and I say, "let it burn." There is no such thing as F2P. The bills have to be paid some how.
I never been there, but sounds about right. They wont go back to sub and trial, there is only one game that does that and its ryzom. They make a lot more money with "F2P".
Ah, hiding the pay-to-win behind a gambling system. Judging by the people in this thread arguing "It's not pay to win!", it seems it still works to this day, unsurprisingly.
Yeah, some of us just don't give a shit about that. If it's something that bothers you then it's probably not the game for you.
Saying the game wasn't for the type of person who gave a shit about this was the point of this thread. Something you appear to have completely missed.
Not sure where people get from that it takes years. If you dedicate your self you can farm enough plat to rune FULL gear with BiS runes in a few days. It's really not that expensive. Also everything in the shop can be bought with omniplat which you earn quite a lot of ingame, and fast. So its quite not p2w LOL.
I rather like the animations, and combat in this game. The game play seems fun, I like the story, the crafting and ability system isnt hale bad too. It seems though, pay 2 win, gambling boxes, and cash shops are the way of things now a days lol. Before some one gets into a argument with me about how this game isnt pay 2 win, it is to me. I spent the time with the server down, looking at peoples posts.
Apparently the way this system works is, you have to re roll your rune slots to get the right one. The amount of in game money it takes to do that, is a out outrageous grind to get that much, the way they made it sound, it was years. So you either grind for years, or pay 100s lol. The difference between garbage runes, and max runes is extreme.
This blows my mind, since people always say the game failed if it went "free 2 play". It sounds to me, that your gonna have to spend a crap ton of money now to keep up with the big spenders, if you want to not be useless in a raid, pvp, or what ever it is you wanted to do. Or spend 18 hours a day grinding. Sounded much better when it was 15 a month haha. I love how people complain about 15 a month, and then end up spending 1000s on the f2p cash shop.
O well, i guess its play old games, quit mmos, or just accept it. Which if they fix the lag, i will just accept it.
If you chance your attitude, your outlook and your definition of what P2W actually is, it makes it so much easier.
For the record, P2W is buying power that can't be acquired in game. If you can buy a Sword that has a topend of 1000 damage yet the only version I can find in game is 900 then that is P2W. Buying aforementioned Sword and being able to get it in a dungeon is not P2W. Both Payers and Leeches have an opportunity to get the sword.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
@GeezerGamer ; "It's not winning, it's faster".... LMAO!!!!!! game, set, match Exactly
Yeah, because that means anything at all? Game, set, match? Do you really think you've won anything here or proven a point? That's the thing with you people. It's all about winning something over another person and coming out on top. Is that how you self-validate? What exactly do you think you won here.
"the thing with you people" You really said that?
I don't really care so much about P2W in games anymore. If I'm having fun, great, if not, bye.
But come on....."Pay to faster"?
WTF is that? If the game is P2W, Just call it P2W and tell people you are playing it anyway. But let's stop pretending it isn't something it is.....or at least in a grey area. I mean.....Isn't it easier to just respond to
"This game is P2W!"
with
"Yeah, so what. I like it."
Then to come up with some semantics game like "P2FSTR"? Because now you have to explain What winning is...What faster is and how Faster is not winning.......Yeah GL with that.
In what game? This one? maybe not. GW2? No it's not at all. ArcheAge? Maybe it is depending on when the next patch comes out and what's on it. Any game with resourse and/or territory control....I'd say you'd be dead wrong.
wildstar still has all the glaring problems of what makes it a bad game to begin with. You may see a influx of new players for awhile but eventually people are going to get sick of the combat and how lackluster the general game is and move on. I highly doubt most people will even bother getting to end game in Wildstar so regardless of rune changes most people just wont care because this game is terrible once you get past the newness of the combat and how much running around you have to do. Not to mention the slow progression from boring kill tasks and limited story style questing. Im one of those people who subbed and played a few times and once I get to about level 20 Im so bored with the game I leave. Pay to win is the least of wildstars worries.
I love the pig analogy by shania because to me this describes wildstar to the Tee. You can dress it up with corky humor and a half-assed attempt at action combat with worse than wow questing and artstyle and at the end of the day its still just a dud of a game.
None of what this is stating is true. Gambling on rune slots is just that, it's gambling. You don't NEED to min-max every piece of your gear to be competitive in raids or high level dungeons. Dungeon gear and runes will take you all the way into raids and what you find there will take you through to the rest of the content. If you want to have an edge over people (and who cares, really? You might deal another 10-50k damage than the guy next to you, but there's 20 man raids. You aren't carrying the group.) sure. Waste your money or grind out gold for that if that's what you want. It's not pay to win at all. It's pay to min-max. You can be perfectly fine with what you find in game and follow the natural progression of items and play all the way and on up into the latest content/raids without issue.
The only REAL problem right now is drop rates. Those need to be looked at for rune fragments of certain types.
You forgetting one key factor those who do spend more will out perform you, and that is a basic pay to win advantage method. People do notice when your playing the same class/builds and someone is out performing you in pve and pvp.
I can't help but facepalm at this response. They aren't going to outperform you in any meaningful way. The difference between the stats will be negligible at end game, especially because there are SOFT and HARD caps on stats. You can reach those caps easily using the rune slots that are rolled up on your gear to begin with. Not to mention runes are relatively easy to get and to reroll into a slot that you'd like. You can use in-game currency to do it (which isn't that expensive) and you get plenty of service tokens by just playing the game. Do your own research, play the game if you want to play it instead of crying pay to win.
Comments
As for me, I am done with MMOs. They are all garbage, cash shop, pay 2 win, players selling, money wasting garbage pits. I am going with smaller based games, like arma 3 epoch. Where I make sure there is no pay 2 win, because i run the server. Rather play with 1 person, then 10000 credit card warriors. It is a shame too, that server runs like 40 a month, plus another server to deal with the AI. To bad MMO just didnt raise the fee to 20-40 a month, instead of this garbage system they created.
Wildstar honestly has one of the best F2P implementations I have seen.
Yeah it def isnt, no MMO, is for me, because they are all Pay 2 Win, minus FF14, and I didn't like that game, path of exile, and ryzom.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
/emote "runs like hell away from Wild Star"
Lets say I bought Sword of Might with 5$ and went to kill stuff right away, but my friend John spend a week to craft this sword instead of buying. We are equal in power in a reasonable amount of time, which I skipped with money and John enjoyed his time collecting materials and crafting. This is how to pay to faster works.
But truly P2W games uses a different approach:
If I bought Sword of Might with 5$ and went to kill stuff, so while John crafting his sword I will buy new Sword of Even more Might in shop and we will never be equal in power, no matter how hard John trying. In P2W game people who pay have more and more power as they pay more; free players exist only to give paying customers illusion that their investment actually worth.
And pay to faster it still a form of pay to win, just it is somewhat tolerable because of reasonable amount of time to catch up.
For me anything except for cosmetic stuff is a big off, they could make a lot more than clothes and mounts, like Path of Exile or DOTA have cosmetics that change skill animation a lot... but they put gambling boxes and some weird runes.. meh just meh.
WS was probably my most favorite MMO of all time, I just wish they made it 'slightly' different in the end.
If you chance your attitude, your outlook and your definition of what P2W actually is, it makes it so much easier.
For the record, P2W is buying power that can't be acquired in game. If you can buy a Sword that has a topend of 1000 damage yet the only version I can find in game is 900 then that is P2W. Buying aforementioned Sword and being able to get it in a dungeon is not P2W. Both Payers and Leeches have an opportunity to get the sword.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Is it fun?
Oh and ......."Pay to faster"? Really?
I've seen euphemisms and semantics used to avoid a particular term, but this..........
"It's not winning, it's faster"
You really said that?
I don't really care so much about P2W in games anymore. If I'm having fun, great, if not, bye.
But come on....."Pay to faster"?
WTF is that? If the game is P2W, Just call it P2W and tell people you are playing it anyway. But let's stop pretending it isn't something it is.....or at least in a grey area. I mean.....Isn't it easier to just respond to
"This game is P2W!"
with
"Yeah, so what. I like it."
Then to come up with some semantics game like "P2FSTR"? Because now you have to explain What winning is...What faster is and how Faster is not winning.......Yeah GL with that.
This one? maybe not.
GW2? No it's not at all.
ArcheAge? Maybe it is depending on when the next patch comes out and what's on it.
Any game with resourse and/or territory control....I'd say you'd be dead wrong.
I love the pig analogy by shania because to me this describes wildstar to the Tee. You can dress it up with corky humor and a half-assed attempt at action combat with worse than wow questing and artstyle and at the end of the day its still just a dud of a game.