Have you formed substantial in-game relationships in FFXIV?

seeyouspacec0wboy

A large argument against themepark MMO's is that they don't do as well at cultivating relationships the way older, more sandbox style games did. Honestly, the last time I made a lot of solid in game friends was in Vanilla WoW, which actually had some elements leftover from sandbox style games (open world PVP being the only PVP option, for instance). Before that it was FFXI and making friends was the core of that game.

Has anybody made a good amount of serious in-game friends? How do you feel about the games ability to cultivate friendships? 

tkoreaper

That is the only way to survive in a themepark MMO. Without the social aspect and finding a good group of people no game will last no matter how good it is. It's the biggest reason why WoW does so well IMO... Take away people's current relationships with people in the game and watch how drastically the game would die out. 

FFXIV has a lot of depth, meaning that there's so much stuff to do. This helps build relationships because it's not just dungeon/raid crawling. There are many days where I do almost nothing in the game except mess around with members of my FC. So yes, I've found some great people to hang out with which, for some, has expanded on to becoming Facebook friends and talking outside of the game.

seeyouspacec0wboy

tkoreaper said:

That is the only way to survive in a themepark MMO. Without the social aspect and finding a good group of people no game will last no matter how good it is.

Years ago I may have agreed, but I can press a button on ffxiv and I'm automatically grouped and thrown in a dungeon with people that I don't have to speak to and will likely never see again after the run is over. Apparently wow has been the same way for awhile now, although I stopped playing after BC.

Albatroes

FFXIV does have a lot tools one can utilize to formulate groups and stay inconstant contact with individuals even if they are not in your FC (guild), such as linkshells which you can have up to 8 of with a member cap of 128 (I think). Anyway, the main things that made FFXI and possibly WoW work in a more tightly social aspect is because the games were server dependent, meaning you only had the people on your server to get things done unless you wanted to transfer. It also helped against trolling (imo) because if you 'betrayed' people, it would stick and everyone who was anyone on the server would know about it until the person transfered and changed their name etc. There's always pros and cons to everything though, but the tools are still there to get things built up even if the game doesn't force people to do it, it just means people have to be more proactive about stuff if they want it, which includes friends.

SoulSurfer

I despise duty finder.

seeyouspacec0wboy

SoulSurfer said:

I despise duty finder.

Same, but at the same time it's hard not to use it when it's there and you know everybody else is using it anyways. 

Bloodaxes

Sooner or later you will have to group up.

Goodluck finishing endgame raids with a pug.

GeezerGamer

Social interaction is on you not the developers.

seeyouspacec0wboy

GeezerGamer said:

Social interaction is on you not the developers.

I see this argument a lot. While I do believe it is on the player to interact, some games simply facilitate building stronger relationships than others. I can socialize all day in the game, but I will hardly need to rely on people throughout the course of playing, other than raids because as an above poster said you don't want to raid with PUG's. There's a difference between casual socialization and forming strong bonds with people. In games where peoples reputation is important, where people can get screwed over by other players, games where getting from one city to another might require traveling with some stronger people to ensure your safety from actually scary monsters (or other players) that if you lose to you may lose some gear or xp or whatever, these are the games that traditionally cultivate the strongest friendships (at least strong for game). This is much different than casual socializing. However, that dosen't mean that this can't happen in a game like FFXIV, which is why I posed the question to begin with. 

Ghavrigg

As with every MMO, people are more apt to ignore you or yell at you if you aren't playing up to their standards, and yada, but find a good FC (guild) and try and find or create a social Linkshell, and/or for whatever other activities, and you can have a lot of interaction with others. Put in the effort, and you can possibly find a good amount of people to befriend, as the tools are there. You'll also doubtlessly end up in a lot of FATE grinding groups for leveling other classes that are opportunities to be social, though most are just there to get the exp and get out. 

I did have a really good FC that I really liked the people and actually hung out at the FC house with them instead of just doing my own thing and actually was having fun, also got on mumble and stuff with them, but then my PC died and I didn't play for a while and kinda lost track of all that. lol

seeyouspacec0wboy

Ghavrigg said:

As with every MMO, people are more apt to ignore you or yell at you if you aren't playing up to their standards, and yada, but find a good FC (guild) and try and find or create a social Linkshell, and/or for whatever other activities, and you can have a lot of interaction with others. Put in the effort, and you can possibly find a good amount of people to befriend, as the tools are there. You'll also doubtlessly end up in a lot of FATE grinding groups for leveling other classes that are opportunities to be social, though most are just there to get the exp and get out. 

I did have a really good FC that I really liked the people and actually hung out at the FC house with them instead of just doing my own thing and actually was having fun, also got on mumble and stuff with them, but then my PC died and I didn't play for a while and kinda lost track of all that. lol

That sounds nice! There is definitely a lot to see and do in this game so I imagine at some point there is ample room for befriending people. I'm also only lvl 32 right now so I may not have hit that stride yet. Although I do wish socializing was a key aspect (to any MMORPG) from the early levels onward. 

simsalabim77

Just like every other recent MMO, XIV does nothing special to cultivate socialization/friends/relationships etc. It's on you to seek out like-minded players. My recommendation is to shop around for an FC based on what you look for in other players because the chances of you accidentally finding one you like is slim. 


There's nothing worse than joining some random "mature, family-friendly, fun-first guild focused on everything the game offers" (every random guild advert ever) only to find out that nobody speaks or does anything together. I used to get annoyed by guild hoppers, but who can blame them when there's so many guilds like that? 

seeyouspacec0wboy

simsalabim77 said:

Just like every other recent MMO, XIV does nothing special to cultivate socialization/friends/relationships etc. It's on you to seek out like-minded players. My recommendation is to shop around for an FC based on what you look for in other players because the chances of you accidentally finding one you like is slim. 


There's nothing worse than joining some random "mature, family-friendly, fun-first guild focused on everything the game offers" (every random guild advert ever) only to find out that nobody speaks or does anything together. I used to get annoyed by guild hoppers, but who can blame them when there's so many guilds like that? 

Haha seriously. Really all I want out of guilds is some good communication and a ready willingness to help other members out when they need it, even if its for something trivial. Mature and friendly is more important to me than whether or not they are focused on the actual game haha. I want aspects of the game to feel like I'm actually in an online, evolving world where people are existing among eachother. Otherwise I'll typically fall back on more intriguing single player games.

GeezerGamer

Ozreth said:

GeezerGamer said:

Social interaction is on you not the developers.

I see this argument a lot. While I do believe it is on the player to interact, some games simply facilitate building stronger relationships than others. I can socialize all day in the game, but I will hardly need to rely on people throughout the course of playing, other than raids because as an above poster said you don't want to raid with PUG's. There's a difference between casual socialization and forming strong bonds with people. In games where peoples reputation is important, where people can get screwed over by other players, games where getting from one city to another might require traveling with some stronger people to ensure your safety from actually scary monsters (or other players) that if you lose to you may lose some gear or xp or whatever, these are the games that traditionally cultivate the strongest friendships (at least strong for game). This is much different than casual socializing. However, that dosen't mean that this can't happen in a game like FFXIV, which is why I posed the question to begin with. 

I have always been a big opponent of the nostalgia theory. Claiming that the games haven't changed, the players have. But in this case, when it comes to social interaction, when someone says games don't have enough social mechanics, this is the one exception I will concede. That is nostalgia. Becasue I recall many many hours in those old games trying for hours to build teams to go into dungeons.

For every mechanic where you need to rely on someone I'm going to give you more than one outcome.

1. Players work together and build stronger bonds (this is what you are hoping for but are forgetting the rest)

2. One or more players are unable to contribute as much as the others and cause the group to fail or take too long and players disperse irritated hoping they never cross paths again.

3. Players cannot manage the content because there simply aren't enough players online interested in taking on that particular group content so players log off irritated that they wasted 2 hrs looking for a group thinking there must be games that are better at this (there are)

4. Players do manage the content, but simply move on and forget each other. 

Mikeha

Ozreth said:

tkoreaper said:

That is the only way to survive in a themepark MMO. Without the social aspect and finding a good group of people no game will last no matter how good it is.

Years ago I may have agreed, but I can press a button on ffxiv and I'm automatically grouped and thrown in a dungeon with people that I don't have to speak to and will likely never see again after the run is over. Apparently wow has been the same way for awhile now, although I stopped playing after BC.

I agree totally. I miss the days when you would actually form a bond with other players from working together. Everything now is 99% easy mode solo only grouping up for a instance with randoms. 

seeyouspacec0wboy

GeezerGamer said:

Ozreth said:

GeezerGamer said:

Social interaction is on you not the developers.

I see this argument a lot. While I do believe it is on the player to interact, some games simply facilitate building stronger relationships than others. I can socialize all day in the game, but I will hardly need to rely on people throughout the course of playing, other than raids because as an above poster said you don't want to raid with PUG's. There's a difference between casual socialization and forming strong bonds with people. In games where peoples reputation is important, where people can get screwed over by other players, games where getting from one city to another might require traveling with some stronger people to ensure your safety from actually scary monsters (or other players) that if you lose to you may lose some gear or xp or whatever, these are the games that traditionally cultivate the strongest friendships (at least strong for game). This is much different than casual socializing. However, that dosen't mean that this can't happen in a game like FFXIV, which is why I posed the question to begin with. 

I have always been a big opponent of the nostalgia theory. Claiming that the games haven't changed, the players have. But in this case, when it comes to social interaction, when someone says games don't have enough social mechanics, this is the one exception I will concede. That is nostalgia. Becasue I recall many many hours in those old games trying for hours to build teams to go into dungeons.

For every mechanic where you need to rely on someone I'm going to give you more than one outcome.

1. Players work together and build stronger bonds (this is what you are hoping for but are forgetting the rest)

2. One or more players are unable to contribute as much as the others and cause the group to fail or take too long and players disperse irritated hoping they never cross paths again.

3. Players cannot manage the content because there simply aren't enough players online interested in taking on that particular group content so players log off irritated that they wasted 2 hrs looking for a group thinking there must be games that are better at this (there are)

4. Players do manage the content, but simply move on and forget each other. 

All good points, and definitely good things to keep in perspective. In the end I would say it's a result of both your arguments and mine. You are right that gamers have certainly changed. The demographic of MMORPG players has broadened tremendously over the past 15 years. In the early 2000's I think you could safely assume that 1 of every four people you ran into had either played Dungeons & Dragons or spent their days building computer, the types of things only a certain niche of like minded people did then (I know im making some sweeping statements, don't take them too literally). I suppose what I miss more than lots of socialization is an actual reliance on other players, which for the most part is gone other than raids. But, as you mentioned, that reliance comes with it's own set of downfalls. 

mgilbrtsn

There seems to be a strange assumption that because games aren't as hard currently, that people can't form substantial relationships in newer MMOs.  There are many reasons people can for friendships besides non soloable content.  

GeezerGamer

Ozreth said:

GeezerGamer said:

Ozreth said:

GeezerGamer said:

All good points, and definitely good things to keep in perspective. In the end I would say it's a result of both your arguments and mine. You are right that gamers have certainly changed. The demographic of MMORPG players has broadened tremendously over the past 15 years. In the early 2000's I think you could safely assume that 1 of every four people you ran into had either played Dungeons & Dragons or spent their days building computer, the types of things only a certain niche of like minded people did then (I know im making some sweeping statements, don't take them too literally). I suppose what I miss more than lots of socialization is an actual reliance on other players, which for the most part is gone other than raids. But, as you mentioned, that reliance comes with it's own set of downfalls. 

The whole basis for my argument is simple. The game I had the deepest connections in was Anarchy Online. We didn't even use a voice chat option.
OK so that example supports your example for how the newer games aren't as good like this.  But then there was my 2nd most socially interactive game. GW2. The game that came under fire by so many in this forum for the shining example of your very argument was one of the games I had the best time with players I got to know in the game.

So, in the end, it was all about choice.

Groundless

We just cleared A3 Savage on Thursday night, and we were all so relieved that we logged off and haven't grouped or done anything since then. The truth is that there is not enough meaningful group content to forge lasting relationships with, especially Alexander Savage. We have had to tell very interesting and wonderful people that they needed to be replaced in our group because they weren't solid on mechanics or couldn't perform the DPS necessary to win.

Even other major raiding groups are having these problems staying together, because to a large degree these fights require you to treat the people on your team like they are only DPS numbers. The frustration levels of insta-wipe mechanics in a thirteen minute fight cause all kinds of problems between members of the group who get irritated with each other. I enjoy the difficulty currently from the perspective of a raider, but from a social standpoint it is just awful.

So the point I am making is that the game mechanics and systems DO influence the types of social interactions and relationships that are formed in the game. While I want to believe that "social interaction is on you, not the developers" its still the activities that we have to engage in together that determine how we socialize within the game. XIV simply doesn't have enough meaningful ways for people to interact and develop social bonds.

GeezerGamer

Is that a universal issue? Or have other guilds overcome that? The other side of the same coin is that if they dumb it down and make it easier, then you get people saying there is no need to talk to each other.

seeyouspacec0wboy

GeezerGamer said:

Is that a universal issue? Or have other guilds overcome that? The other side of the same coin is that if they dumb it down and make it easier, then you get people saying there is no need to talk to each other.

See, I don't think it would need to be made easier, just differently. The biggest example, which many people will cite, is the group finder thing. The thing just throws you into a group without having to communicate with anybody. In my experience finding groups in world chat and meeting people that were willing to stick by you and help you keep running things really helped form some relationships. The raid could remain the exact same, just as challenging, but the way you GET to the raid should be much more organic. Finding a group of solid people, choosing where to meet up and riding together to the raid site was one of my favorite parts of some older games. It was half the adventure

The downside is when there aren't a lot of people on, but the game is extremely popular, one of the most populated on the market, it wouldn't be a problem. And if it does become a problem I would say that speaks to other issues with the game that is causing the pop to dwindle.

Baitness

Oddly, no, I have never made any real friendships in this mmorpg.  I think a lot of that has to do with the duty finder.  I meet some nice people, but they are not on my server and I will never see them again.  It is certainly worth losing that for gaining the convenience of automatically finding a party, but in other games I met friends by doing dungeons.

I think another aspect missing is having an ideal difficulty curve.  Too easy and there is no need to make guilds for clearing content.  Too hard and guilds break up.  On top of that, the correct difficulty curve is different for different people.  FFXIV has the right idea, adapting the "normal mode" and "hard mode" approach other games have been using.  It seems like the content in the expansion all falls too far on the easy side, or too far on the hard side, however.  I imagine Square-Enix probably thinks the same, and we will see some difficulty tweaks.

seeyouspacec0wboy

Baitness said:

Oddly, no, I have never made any real friendships in this mmorpg.  I think a lot of that has to do with the duty finder.  I meet some nice people, but they are not on my server and I will never see them again.

Definitely seems to be the culprit, and it's a shame. I do like the game a lot though and I have a bit of faith in SE to keep tweaking the game to touch on lots of peoples different desires. 

reeereee

Made a ton of friends in FFXIV 1.0, not so much in ARR.

Then again I despise ARR's combat so I may not be investing as much time.

Dzone

Well i've been playing ff14 since it relaunched 2 years ago and I have very rarely ever did anything with my FC members.

Back in ffxi though I did form good friendships with peaple. For ex: i used to see a certain someone out and about while i was just xping out in the open world, and we'd always say something like "Small world eh"

There was another peason that used to send me a /tell literally everyday saying hi. One week I went to disney world and wasn't on the game, but the day i loged back in game that person was like "Where yo been all week" I enjoyed the brief company from that person actually.

There was this galka i used to group up with everyday and he'd always call me hes little buddy. I was a taru .

We used to just talk about random stuff in my old linkshe'll and get together to do things. Back in ffxi peaple would usually ask for help. I was a whm and ocationally i would teleport peaple around if they needed me to.

Ye that part was nice, gathering with members from my linkshell in lower/upper jeuno and hanging out untill everyone was ready to go do w/e we were doing. I got the pleasure of teleporting us all and then we would hope down talk to this npc and jump on a chocobo and ride together across the open world.

I havn't had none of those experiances in ffxiv, sadly. In ff14 i just log in do my daily rouletts and just log out.

I know thers other stuff i can do, but the world just feels emply to me and alot of that other stuff like crafting just feels worthless to me.

FFXI i enjoyed alot more that ff14, but i guss thats because the world in ffxi didn't feel empty compared to ff14.

seeyouspacec0wboy

Dzone said:

Well i've been playing ff14 since it relaunched 2 years ago and I have very rarely ever did anything with my FC members.

Back in ffxi though I did form good friendships with peaple. For ex: i used to see a certain someone out and about while i was just xping out in the open world, and we'd always say something like "Small world eh"

There was another peason that used to send me a /tell literally everyday saying hi. One week I went to disney world and wasn't on the game, but the day i loged back in game that person was like "Where yo been all week" I enjoyed the brief company from that person actually.

There was this galka i used to group up with everyday and he'd always call me hes little buddy. I was a taru .

We used to just talk about random stuff in my old linkshe'll and get together to do things. Back in ffxi peaple would usually ask for help. I was a whm and ocationally i would teleport peaple around if they needed me to.

Ye that part was nice, gathering with members from my linkshell in lower/upper jeuno and hanging out untill everyone was ready to go do w/e we were doing. I got the pleasure of teleporting us all and then we would hope down talk to this npc and jump on a chocobo and ride together across the open world.

I havn't had none of those experiances in ffxiv, sadly. In ff14 i just log in do my daily rouletts and just log out.

I know thers other stuff i can do, but the world just feels emply to me and alot of that other stuff like crafting just feels worthless to me.

FFXI i enjoyed alot more that ff14, but i guss thats because the world in ffxi didn't feel empty compared to ff14.

Damn, see, those are some really good examples of how socialization used to go in these games, and how the setup of the game facilitated it. So what keeps you coming back to ffxiv?