Ugh that comment about strong personal story is worrying. What made EQ1 and early Gen1 MMORPGS great is that we were not the chosen ones, there was no personal story. It was about community. I hope they don't waste any dev resources towards personal story.
Well, we're not living in 1999 anymore and people have been spoiled by personal stories of praise and heroics. This is usually used to break the monotony during leveling, and it's generally something I enjoy in games, as long as the story is good. The option is nice to have, but I agree, the type of game they're going for doesn't seem like it calls for a huge investment in this area.
Ugh that comment about strong personal story is worrying. What made EQ1 and early Gen1 MMORPGS great is that we were not the chosen ones, there was no personal story. It was about community. I hope they don't waste any dev resources towards personal story.
Well, we're not living in 1999 anymore and people have been spoiled by personal stories of praise and heroics. This is usually used to break the monotony during leveling, and it's generally something I enjoy in games, as long as the story is good. The option is nice to have, but I agree, the type of game they're going for doesn't seem like it calls for a huge investment in this area.
If they have a new and interesting take on the personal story that actually makes sense in a world filled with other players who are similar in ability and talent to you then bring it on. Otherwise please don't. If I want to hear about how I'm the chosen one there are a myriad of single player games and quite a few MMOs who are investing a huge amount of resources in this already.
Ugh that comment about strong personal story is worrying. What made EQ1 and early Gen1 MMORPGS great is that we were not the chosen ones, there was no personal story. It was about community. I hope they don't waste any dev resources towards personal story.
Well, we're not living in 1999 anymore and people have been spoiled by personal stories of praise and heroics. This is usually used to break the monotony during leveling, and it's generally something I enjoy in games, as long as the story is good. The option is nice to have, but I agree, the type of game they're going for doesn't seem like it calls for a huge investment in this area.
If they have a new and interesting take on the personal story that actually makes sense in a world filled with other players who are similar in ability and talent to you then bring it on. Otherwise please don't. If I want to hear about how I'm the chosen one there are a myriad of single player games and quite a few MMOs who are investing a huge amount of resources in this already.
I agree, how can I be the chosen one, if the other 1500 players on my server are also the chosen one.
Ugh that comment about strong personal story is worrying. What made EQ1 and early Gen1 MMORPGS great is that we were not the chosen ones, there was no personal story. It was about community. I hope they don't waste any dev resources towards personal story.
Well, we're not living in 1999 anymore and people have been spoiled by personal stories of praise and heroics. This is usually used to break the monotony during leveling, and it's generally something I enjoy in games, as long as the story is good. The option is nice to have, but I agree, the type of game they're going for doesn't seem like it calls for a huge investment in this area.
If they have a new and interesting take on the personal story that actually makes sense in a world filled with other players who are similar in ability and talent to you then bring it on. Otherwise please don't. If I want to hear about how I'm the chosen one there are a myriad of single player games and quite a few MMOs who are investing a huge amount of resources in this already.
I agree, how can I be the chosen one, if the other 1500 players on my server are also the chosen one.
This has been coming up enough that we need to do a better write-up as to what it means to be one of the Fallen. Working on it.
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully, you wont bind monsters when engaged, and alow trains, but at the same time, grant us the EVAC!
It's all about the Adventure, the danger, overcomming obsticles, hardship, having success and the escape! of doom!
But i agree, dont give us easy travel, like summoner obelixes in WoW (even the caravan idea feels a bit like giving in, when ur playing ur playing, and are an active asset of the game world, its not about saving time, finding that ubber group who speeds up their phase is also a quest in it self, the quest for valid equal skilled people that RONIN stuff...
portals and teleportation should be in the game, but at a cost, and class restricted, keep true to the lore, u want to be a fighter, sure "all attempts to do magic shall fizzle, and you are doomed to the road, (but in that lies the adventure as well), Wizards ever seeking the omnipotence should have access to it, but with risks maybe, like comming out on the other side of the portal with his limbs spread out all over the marked area
When i come to think of it, dont slow down on the sexual undertones and erotic creatures, dont be afraid of making naked breast succubus creatures, with devililshy sexy dialogues, and toss in alot of gore as well... in her bedchamber, and through out terminus, see if u can catch that that, ultimately light vs dark feeling, and everything inbetveen in the grey areas, that will question ur choices in the world.... I am just rambling...
All sounds great except one part and it is a REALLY bad part...
We want to reward players for "Discovery,encounters and progress".
That sounds really scary,one of my biggest peeves from recent games is giving free hand outs for stepping on some new pixel of land.
Progress?This also sounds scary ,not that i know what this means exactly but i have a pretty good idea where it goes.
Basically where i stand is a game should not FEEL like it is just game mechanics,ideas in the game should feel realistic,like you are in a world and not a piece of code.
I mean i don't see how they are putting thought into this,instead it just sounds like all the other games putting in simple systems to hand out xp/rewards,so basically a linear game.Example when would anyone in real life walk around and stop and say "Whoa,i never stepped here before,where is my reward?"See how dumb it sounds,well that is how i look at it as being dumb.
That is all i really ask for is plausible ideas that make sense not ideas that are just leveling mechanics.
This sounds too much like old Brad designs,we need to branch out and be creative ,i don't want to play another EQ or EQ2 or Vanguard.It was cool back in the day but not any more.
As to leveling,i would like to see ALL levels treated identical,i can't stand making levels 1-20 as superficial levels that everyone just flies by and ignores.That is why i think Elyria is getting it right with aging instead of levels.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
@ Wizardry I think it's time you moved on then friend. This doesn't seem to be a game you would be interested in as you are against most of everything the game is trying to offer.
In reference to the article.... I'm against "The Hero" story, the fast travel, systems put in place for convince, and the free hand outs.
If a company wants old school players, my friends, and myself to continue to support this game with their time and money they may want to clarify those topics. While I have a good amount of faith in the team to deliver and my wallet speaks for that faith, this article along with bits from the last interview have me a bit worried that this may not be the game that we are looking for.
It looks like Brad et.al. have made some actual progress on the game. After the miserable Kickstarter campaign I never thought Pantheon would progress like it has been. I am not quite willing to back the project financially yet, but I must admit that I am now open to the idea. I will continue to keep an eye on their progress. Once I see some convincing gameplay I'll pull the trigger. I must say that I am impressed Brad has been interacting with the community on a regular basis. Mark Jacobs does the same thing and that means a lot to me.
The Kickstarter failed its funding goal for a reason. This game will never succeed if the devs keep going in the same direction as they did during the Kickstarter pitch, which it currently looks like what is happening. Waste of time and money imo.
I have found in my lifetime, that the beauty of hating stupid people is, that it crosses all racial boundaries.
Jesus H Christ, if they put in a friggin "you're the hero of the world" type of BS personal storyline into the game, its a non starter for me.
I should of known better than to get my hopes up. Un friggin believable.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
@Sinist, I agree with literally everything you've said in this thread. This article hints at some worrying things and it's hard to tell if it's the author's opinion or Brad and Chris. It would have been nice to get the actual interview rather than a summary.
For example, "One way MMOs have progressed is by adding in very strong single player content to the game." Is that something Brad and Chris think, or is it the author? I think most Pantheon fans would disagree with this statement (as seen by the extreme dislike for a mention of a personal story in this thread alone).
Thanks for coming in and clarifying things, Brad. I'm looking forward to seeing the write-up on what it means to be one of The Fallen.
@Niien & Wizardry: I actually really agree with what Wizardry is talking about. The mechanic of requiring people to walk somewhere before they can fast-travel there again doesn't make sense to me. Why does the world care if you walked there before? It kills the suspension of disbelief and detracts from the immersion of a living world.
I understand the convenience, but if you want to have fast travel, just have it. Don't trivialize the world by requiring players to 'activate' griffon towers so they can quickly re-travel through a zone.
I have to agree with the majority regarding fast travel and personal story.
I don't want to be the hero or the chosen one; I prefer to be an average Joe that has to make his own mark on the world and within the population. I would prefer to experience the history/lore of the world through quests and exploration for example finding a long forgotton book somewhere of the beaten track.
Fast travel should be like EQ, controlled by the players, for example druid rings and wizzie spires. If you do go down the fast travel route make it limited, for example the Lucin spires from EQ.
I would prefer travel methods like horses, boats etc. Allow them to be accessible form the off and not just rewards for high level players. Make boats needed and useful and make them the only way to access certain content. Flying mounts is a difficult one. I enjoy using them but they do make it easy to bypass content. If at some point decide to include them make them dangerous to use. for example being hunted by high level flying mobs and make it easy to make a mistake and fall to your death.
Give one of the classes without content avoiding abilities the option to call a group member but it should be restricted by a long cool down and requires an expensive regent to use the spelland the person to be called has to be in the same zone.
@Niien & Wizardry: I actually really agree with what Wizardry is talking about. The mechanic of requiring people to walk somewhere before they can fast-travel there again doesn't make sense to me. Why does the world care if you walked there before? It kills the suspension of disbelief and detracts from the immersion of a living world.
I understand the convenience, but if you want to have fast travel, just have it. Don't trivialize the world by requiring players to 'activate' griffon towers so they can quickly re-travel through a zone.
Exactly, having "visit once" fast travel is a mainstream feature, it is fast travel regardless. In EQ Planes of Power, visiting a place before hand wouldn't have mattered, it was the consistent easy mode travel that killed class interdependence, made the world feel small, and made many coveted spells and abilities of some classes more "convenience" features rather than class defining utilities.
It makes no sense to promote an "intensely social" play style and then turn around and work against it with these features. Everything in the game should point to the need of other people to provide convenience. The game itself should not.
You want to fast travel to various zones "fairly" easy, fine.. play a class that can port, make a buddy who can, or have someone on retainer.
You want to be able to run faster so you can travel through the zones easier, fine... play a class that gets those lines of spells, make a buddy who can, or look for people to buff you while traveling.
Even with these, there should be limitations. For instance, ports in EQ didn't go to every zone, they went to certain ones and you had to travel by foot the rest of the way which meant you needed a class to be able to speed up that as well.
All of this layers game features on top of others, class interdependence, and creates a sense of play where there is always something that one class desires of another in terms of utility, ability, etc..
Is this another one of those indie mmos that takes 10 years to develop and then release in a half-finished mess? Seems like there is literally over 100 of those floating about.
Is this another one of those indie mmos that takes 10 years to develop and then release in a half-finished mess? Seems like there is literally over 100 of those floating about.
Yes, that is exactly it! So I guess you can move on, no need to give it anymore of your attention. Buh bye!
"They don’t want leveling to just look like a giant ladder. This is really where the story or lore of the game kicks in. One way MMOs have progressed is by adding in very strong single player content to the game."
That is the only comment made about personal story and the Arthur was referring to how some ( not necessarily Pantheon ) have helped Character progression in their MMO's.
The core issue I see it as , if you have a good group, being able to stick with that group and not get out-grouped because some have more time to spend and would advance to a point where you were out of range. Now understandably this is a grey area, because often people go through various meetings and groups with people before they find a core. Likewise as the character matures in the game, not to have to give up their core group for the sake of a guild or raid. I am all for finding the " reasonably safe spot" in a dungeon if we all have to camp out, But I remember making this promise with many others, only to have them NOT show up within an hour of the pre-agreed time and day only for me to see them elsewhere and feel "ditched". I think some doubling back and some invising as far as you can go, is necessary and the group can come back for you, or meet you half way.
When i first heard about this game, and about its group oriented niche
gameplay, I immediately scrapped it. I hate it when game impose on you a
certain type of grouping up in order for you to play through.
Excellent comment which shows that Pantheon communication comes correctly through.
Players who hate grouping (imposed by content or otherwise) are PRECISELY players who are unwanted in Pantheon . Pantheon aims at being a strongly social game so that players that don't like this approach better stay outside leaving only players who like it playing the game .
So while the game is indeed purposefully not designed for players like the OP and it is appreciated that he understood this fact and "immediately scrapped it", it stays the conundrum why he posted in this thread about a game that is obviously not meant for him .
A word about the personnal storyline .
The best one that I have seen in MMOs ever is the LOTRO's epic line.
A personal storyline is an excellent opportunity to creatively introduce every player to the lore of the world, history of his race and class and accompany him on his journey.
With such a personal storyline every player feels at home from the very first minute. He knows who he is and where he is what enables immersion.
In a lore driven game like Pantheon I definitely support the idea to have a personnal storyline.
Whether there will be enough ressources to implement it is another matter.
Is this another one of those indie mmos that takes 10 years to develop and then release in a half-finished mess? Seems like there is literally over 100 of those floating about.
Absolutely not. We've made tremendous progress in a very short period of time and Pantheon will most certainly ship. I understand the general skepticism of 'indie' games, but I think our track record speaks otherwise.
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
Comments
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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We want to reward players for "Discovery,encounters and progress". That sounds really scary,one of my biggest peeves from recent games is giving free hand outs for stepping on some new pixel of land. Progress?This also sounds scary ,not that i know what this means exactly but i have a pretty good idea where it goes.
Basically where i stand is a game should not FEEL like it is just game mechanics,ideas in the game should feel realistic,like you are in a world and not a piece of code.
I mean i don't see how they are putting thought into this,instead it just sounds like all the other games putting in simple systems to hand out xp/rewards,so basically a linear game.Example when would anyone in real life walk around and stop and say "Whoa,i never stepped here before,where is my reward?"See how dumb it sounds,well that is how i look at it as being dumb.
That is all i really ask for is plausible ideas that make sense not ideas that are just leveling mechanics. This sounds too much like old Brad designs,we need to branch out and be creative ,i don't want to play another EQ or EQ2 or Vanguard.It was cool back in the day but not any more.
As to leveling,i would like to see ALL levels treated identical,i can't stand making levels 1-20 as superficial levels that everyone just flies by and ignores.That is why i think Elyria is getting it right with aging instead of levels.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I have found in my lifetime, that the beauty of hating stupid people is, that it crosses all racial boundaries.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
I don't want to be the hero or the chosen one; I prefer to be an average Joe that has to make his own mark on the world and within the population. I would prefer to experience the history/lore of the world through quests and exploration for example finding a long forgotton book somewhere of the beaten track.
Fast travel should be like EQ, controlled by the players, for example druid rings and wizzie spires. If you do go down the fast travel route make it limited, for example the Lucin spires from EQ.
I would prefer travel methods like horses, boats etc. Allow them to be accessible form the off and not just rewards for high level players. Make boats needed and useful and make them the only way to access certain content. Flying mounts is a difficult one. I enjoy using them but they do make it easy to bypass content. If at some point decide to include them make them dangerous to use. for example being hunted by high level flying mobs and make it easy to make a mistake and fall to your death.
Give one of the classes without content avoiding abilities the option to call a group member but it should be restricted by a long cool down and requires an expensive regent to use the spelland the person to be called has to be in the same zone.
It makes no sense to promote an "intensely social" play style and then turn around and work against it with these features. Everything in the game should point to the need of other people to provide convenience. The game itself should not.
You want to fast travel to various zones "fairly" easy, fine.. play a class that can port, make a buddy who can, or have someone on retainer.
You want to be able to run faster so you can travel through the zones easier, fine... play a class that gets those lines of spells, make a buddy who can, or look for people to buff you while traveling.
Even with these, there should be limitations. For instance, ports in EQ didn't go to every zone, they went to certain ones and you had to travel by foot the rest of the way which meant you needed a class to be able to speed up that as well.
All of this layers game features on top of others, class interdependence, and creates a sense of play where there is always something that one class desires of another in terms of utility, ability, etc..
This is what made EQ "Evercrack".
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Excellent comment which shows that Pantheon communication comes correctly through.
Players who hate grouping (imposed by content or otherwise) are PRECISELY players who are unwanted in Pantheon . Pantheon aims at being a strongly social game so that players that don't like this approach better stay outside leaving only players who like it playing the game .
So while the game is indeed purposefully not designed for players like the OP and it is appreciated that he understood this fact and "immediately scrapped it", it stays the conundrum why he posted in this thread about a game that is obviously not meant for him .
A word about the personnal storyline .
The best one that I have seen in MMOs ever is the LOTRO's epic line.
A personal storyline is an excellent opportunity to creatively introduce every player to the lore of the world, history of his race and class and accompany him on his journey.
With such a personal storyline every player feels at home from the very first minute. He knows who he is and where he is what enables immersion.
In a lore driven game like Pantheon I definitely support the idea to have a personnal storyline.
Whether there will be enough ressources to implement it is another matter.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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