Horusra said: EVE PvE is just pointless really. Once you get your skills up there is no challenge in it. The challenge only comes from someone PvP fitted attacking your PvE tanking boat because you are defenseless against them.
Wonder what makes one brag about their limitations... /shrugs
you seem to be the one bragging about EVE's limited PvE. It is the weakest point of the game that gets the least amount of love. If there was not PvP threat to the higher level PvE there would be no threat to it. So a PvE only server would be dead in a month unless CCP put a lot of time giving the PvE system more depth, meaning, and danger.
Am i fanboy, nope, i love EvE but personally (see my post from 5 mins ago) i think CCP have gambled our beloved universe on the upcoming patches, and tbh its a flip of coin if eve lives or dies..... but a fanboy hell no, im a critic of CCP and what they have done to our/their game, they (ccp) have tried to pander to whiners (very much the people who whine on posts like this) which is why this game has been dumbed so far down that its actually lost players from the 50k it used to get 2years ago
But on with the response
These posts that start "p2w" and "eve"
~Gawd knows i get tired of posting on here which is why i wont try and argue on most of the posts... but for clarification
Can anyone show me a single person who has won eve????
Lets look at the SP thing.... Dr Caymus is the highest SP player in eve, and i know he hasn't won anything, given that he rarely undocks and merely just builds things.
So how is buying SP going to make anyone else win things.
I have roughly 140mill sp on this toon, and trust me when i say i definitely dont win eve. In fact any player who spends maybe 3-6 months in eve can probably quite easily beat me in a 1v1 as i suck... So nope Buying SP wont change this.
Now lets look at my alts, I have varying levels, but 3 accounts and 9 toons, they vary from 8mill sp upto 140mill sp.
And of them this is the only toon that pvps' all my other toons are either trade or industry focussed , and even though i haven't yet built one i have skills to build EVERY item in EvE does that mean i won eve, coz im damn sure i haven't
So to those anit-ccp / eve posters... I ask you one question
Show me a single person that has won eve ..... if you cannot do this then can you explain how Pay 2 Win applies... or is merely you like to use terms that you heard another guy use,
In eve the player that might win today will lose tomorrow that is how the game survives, we dont have GMs to hand hold us, or big bright yellow !/? s to help us get to endgame... oh wait... there is NO endgame. Let me repeat that for you hard of hearing "we have NO ENDGAME"
So feel free to give me a single person who has won EvE .... and then prove to me how its p2w????
Wonder what makes one brag about their limitations... /shrugs
you seem to be the one bragging about EVE's limited PvE. It is the weakest point of the game that gets the least amount of love. If there was not PvP threat to the higher level PvE there would be no threat to it. So a PvE only server would be dead in a month unless CCP put a lot of time giving the PvE system more depth, meaning, and danger.
Do you even lift bro?
So EVE's PVE is pointless, limited, without threat and without challenge?
I suppose you solo Sansha incursions, which generate great quantities of ISK, and have to be dealt with by the players because the game world is actually negatively impacted until they are dealt with.
Sleepers in wormholes, especially the higher level ones are very dangerous and I've watched couple of carriers go boom when the tide went badly for the fleet trying to clear the anom. Also sleeper loot is integral in driving EVE's very extensive crafting model.
Even in null sec anoms, I've lost a few Ishtars to npcs when I got locked up too close and couldn't break free. Let's not talk about 10/10 escalations such as Mazes that claim more than their fair share of the unwary, however can drop some of the greatest loot in the game.
Planetary exploration, source of valuable components which are used to create fuel blocks and along with salvage are used to create everything from ship parts to the upcoming Citadel stations.
Exploration of sites is another PVE aspect, very safe in high sec, in WH's damn dangerous but again, very high rewards. Also have Ghost Sites and other thing to explore and exploit.
Want to go on the wild side, how about drug production, illegal by the high sec empires, manufactured through a complex set of processes in the wilds of null sec and the output can either turn the tide of battle or create a crippling addiction.
Mission running up to level 5 (again, dangerous), mining which if you gas mine in WH's you'll learn how dangerous the profession can be.
Oh yes, moon mining, another great income source, and the cause of many wars in null sec as empire fight for control of them.
So what sort of PVE is EVE lacking? I know, scripted, dance with the star raiding, and you are correct, totally absent from EVE, and let's hope they never come up with anything like it.
Like I said, "Do you even PVE bro?" Doesn't sound like it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Am i fanboy, nope, i love EvE but personally (see my post from 5 mins ago) i think CCP have gambled our beloved universe on the upcoming patches, and tbh its a flip of coin if eve lives or dies..... but a fanboy hell no, im a critic of CCP and what they have done to our/their game, they (ccp) have tried to pander to whiners (very much the people who whine on posts like this) which is why this game has been dumbed so far down that its actually lost players from the 50k it used to get 2years ago
But on with the response
These posts that start "p2w" and "eve"
~Gawd knows i get tired of posting on here which is why i wont try and argue on most of the posts... but for clarification
Can anyone show me a single person who has won eve????
Lets look at the SP thing.... Dr Caymus is the highest SP player in eve, and i know he hasn't won anything, given that he rarely undocks and merely just builds things.
So how is buying SP going to make anyone else win things.
I have roughly 140mill sp on this toon, and trust me when i say i definitely dont win eve. In fact any player who spends maybe 3-6 months in eve can probably quite easily beat me in a 1v1 as i suck... So nope Buying SP wont change this.
Now lets look at my alts, I have varying levels, but 3 accounts and 9 toons, they vary from 8mill sp upto 140mill sp.
And of them this is the only toon that pvps' all my other toons are either trade or industry focussed , and even though i haven't yet built one i have skills to build EVERY item in EvE does that mean i won eve, coz im damn sure i haven't
So to those anit-ccp / eve posters... I ask you one question
Show me a single person that has won eve ..... if you cannot do this then can you explain how Pay 2 Win applies... or is merely you like to use terms that you heard another guy use,
In eve the player that might win today will lose tomorrow that is how the game survives, we dont have GMs to hand hold us, or big bright yellow !/? s to help us get to endgame... oh wait... there is NO endgame. Let me repeat that for you hard of hearing "we have NO ENDGAME"
So feel free to give me a single person who has won EvE .... and then prove to me how its p2w????
Give me a single person that has won any MMORPG.....then no game is P2W...it is a useless term and purchasing ingame benefits to move past tedious or grindy portions of the game to advance to more competitive protions of the game with real money is just good game play.....
No one buys anything in any game and just becomes the boss without some practice. Some takes more than others, but I think many would say if I can pay to move past grinding and waiting in EVE that one has to do and instead I can just pay money to have SP's and endless ships to practice with makes me more "winning" than a nub just joining that now has to grind out ingame cash for ships, wait for training, and have to grind out more ingame case to buy new ships to replace their loses.
Eve devs do not create content. The provide mechanics and then let the player base explore them as they will.
The fact that people bring up Eve and content tells me they do not understand the game.
In regards to the post above.
You spend real life money. The nub doesn't. Who is winning again?
just look up ship losses and see what is more than likely to happen to someone like the above poster who thinks spending real life money in Eve to buy stuff makes him a winner. Better yet, please don't. Just jump in with all the bling you can buy and un-dock.........Eve vets will love you long time.
Eve devs do not create content. The provide mechanics and then let the player base explore them as they will.
The fact that people bring up Eve and content tells me they do not understand the game.
In regards to the post above.
You spend real life money. The nub doesn't. Who is winning again?
just look up ship losses and see what is more than likely to happen to someone like the above poster who thinks spending real life money in Eve to buy stuff makes him a winner. Better yet, please don't. Just jump in with all the bling you can buy and un-dock.........Eve vets will love you long time.
that is the story you like people to believe more people do, but the truth is that people buy a bunch of cruisers with very little bling just the PvP basics so while we have raids my loses mean crap cause it will take me no time if I have the cash to replace them and I can even supply my corp mates with ships. While you have to go out and spend time getting ingame cash to replace ships.
Once again your argument about the person spending cash is not "winning" over the person not spending cash because of the purchasing means no game is P2W. Cause if I can get the same stuff ingame that you bought nothing is P2W.
Eve devs do not create content. The provide mechanics and then let the player base explore them as they will.
The fact that people bring up Eve and content tells me they do not understand the game.
In regards to the post above.
You spend real life money. The nub doesn't. Who is winning again?
just look up ship losses and see what is more than likely to happen to someone like the above poster who thinks spending real life money in Eve to buy stuff makes him a winner. Better yet, please don't. Just jump in with all the bling you can buy and un-dock.........Eve vets will love you long time.
What about the new corp that wants to be a mining powerhouse without taking the time to build up the funds for ships and they just buy them and the SP with cash. Or the trade corp that want a jump capable ship but does not want to put the few months in for the SP so they buy the SP and ship. Those are aspects of the game people are now paying to bypass as in many other games people want to bypass the collection of armor, weapons, and levels and just buy them. Many on this board have said that is P2W.
So feel free to give me a single person who has won EvE .... and then prove to me how its p2w????
Give me a single person that has won any MMORPG.....then no game is P2W...it is a useless term and purchasing ingame benefits to move past tedious or grindy portions of the game to advance to more competitive protions of the game with real money is just good game play.....
No one buys anything in any game and just becomes the boss without some practice. Some takes more than others, but I think many would say if I can pay to move past grinding and waiting in EVE that one has to do and instead I can just pay money to have SP's and endless ships to practice with makes me more "winning" than a nub just joining that now has to grind out ingame cash for ships, wait for training, and have to grind out more ingame case to buy new ships to replace their loses.
ok in any raid led MMO the winner is generally considered the guys who first down a boss, or world first... why do you think WoW had so many hardcore guilds to do things first in games that have ends is considered winning.. When anyone has downed that last boss what is left in game? Yes you can repeat things over and over , but eventually you will get the top gear from the top boss, hit top level.... this you cannot do in eve (or any sandbox for that matter) even considering the skills you can train it would take (using todays rough esitmate) 19 years to train all skills, that without new skills that come in to the game every few months...
EvE has no end... (until ccp pull plug)
But, your getting off the point about the injectors, consider character trading has been in eve for at least 7 years how is this any different from then.
But all you've done is help to validate my point by using just a small facet of eve to declare how to win eve.... pvp is a core game play mechanic but not the be all and end all.... Many players like myself do little to no pvp in eve, so how would any non pvper win eve.
Fact is your confusing the facts with urban myths about eve. For starter the isk sink involved to get enough SP from the injectors far far outweighs any benefit.
this is taken directly from the description of the item
Characters with less than 5,000,000 skill points will receive 500,000 unallocated skill points.
Characters with between 5,000,000 and 50,000,000 skill points will receive 400,000 unallocated skill points.
Characters with between 50,000,000 and 80,000,000 skill points will receive 300,000 unallocated skill points.
Characters with more than 80,000,000 skill points will receive 150,000 unallocated skill points.
To put this into context a well augmented toon can get about 2940ish SP per hour, so in fact your talking about 50 hours of training, so a smidge over 2 days training (rememer skill points build up as long as you have active subs and not in game), then after you hit 5mill sp you see this reduces gains by 25% to less than 2 days of training..
So would you like to consider the amount of cash to buy a toon that can confidently fly (lets be easy) cruiser
A Good cruiser pilot will have between 8-14mill sp (single race) so from new you will need around 28 of these injectors, at a cost (currently 640m {or 50% of a plex}) so 14 plexes which retail at about £10-14 depending on sales.. so for a mere £200 you can fly a cruiser. when for the same value of plexes you could buy (and have been able to for about 6 years) a toon in region of 30mill sp..... so again how is this new feature a pay 2 win, fact is its actually far far far worse return on your cash for a similar toon..
Then what your also forgetting that the SP that you inject is removed from another player, so the actually effect of the implant is double (in a 1v1 situation)
So feel free to give me a single person who has won EvE .... and then prove to me how its p2w????
Give me a single person that has won any MMORPG.....then no game is P2W...it is a useless term and purchasing ingame benefits to move past tedious or grindy portions of the game to advance to more competitive protions of the game with real money is just good game play.....
No one buys anything in any game and just becomes the boss without some practice. Some takes more than others, but I think many would say if I can pay to move past grinding and waiting in EVE that one has to do and instead I can just pay money to have SP's and endless ships to practice with makes me more "winning" than a nub just joining that now has to grind out ingame cash for ships, wait for training, and have to grind out more ingame case to buy new ships to replace their loses.
ok in any raid led MMO the winner is generally considered the guys who first down a boss, or world first... why do you think WoW had so many hardcore guilds to do things first in games that have ends is considered winning.. When anyone has downed that last boss what is left in game? Yes you can repeat things over and over , but eventually you will get the top gear from the top boss, hit top level.... this you cannot do in eve (or any sandbox for that matter) even considering the skills you can train it would take (using todays rough esitmate) 19 years to train all skills, that without new skills that come in to the game every few months...
EvE has no end... (until ccp pull plug)
But, your getting off the point about the injectors, consider character trading has been in eve for at least 7 years how is this any different from then.
But all you've done is help to validate my point by using just a small facet of eve to declare how to win eve.... pvp is a core game play mechanic but not the be all and end all.... Many players like myself do little to no pvp in eve, so how would any non pvper win eve.
Fact is your confusing the facts with urban myths about eve. For starter the isk sink involved to get enough SP from the injectors far far outweighs any benefit.
this is taken directly from the description of the item
Characters with less than 5,000,000 skill points will receive 500,000 unallocated skill points.
Characters with between 5,000,000 and 50,000,000 skill points will receive 400,000 unallocated skill points.
Characters with between 50,000,000 and 80,000,000 skill points will receive 300,000 unallocated skill points.
Characters with more than 80,000,000 skill points will receive 150,000 unallocated skill points.
To put this into context a well augmented toon can get about 2940ish SP per hour, so in fact your talking about 50 hours of training, so a smidge over 2 days training (rememer skill points build up as long as you have active subs and not in game), then after you hit 5mill sp you see this reduces gains by 25% to less than 2 days of training..
So would you like to consider the amount of cash to buy a toon that can confidently fly (lets be easy) cruiser
A Good cruiser pilot will have between 8-14mill sp (single race) so from new you will need around 28 of these injectors, at a cost (currently 640m {or 50% of a plex}) so 14 plexes which retail at about £10-14 depending on sales.. so for a mere £200 you can fly a cruiser. when for the same value of plexes you could buy (and have been able to for about 6 years) a toon in region of 30mill sp..... so again how is this new feature a pay 2 win, fact is its actually far far far worse return on your cash for a similar toon..
Then what your also forgetting that the SP that you inject is removed from another player, so the actually effect of the implant is double (in a 1v1 situation)
Same as your arbitrary ideas about the winner being the first to down a boss. In EVE being a powerful corp controlling space. Being a mover and shaker are winners. Since a game like WoW has no real end with new content coming out there is no final winner in your terms any more than a Corp can win EVE.
Character trading is P2W. I contend EVE has been and will be P2W.
"Winning" in Eve is simple. Being able to do what you want, when you want, doing the least amount of want you do not want to do. I just join and with some real life cash I can get a Corp to out compete yours in trade or mining because while you have to get the resouces I buy them. You wait to fly a jump ship, stealth ship, mining fleet...I guy the SP and ships to do it. Now my Corp is "winning" cause that is my end game. I bought it. I skipped your months of skill training and harvesting resources.
Injectors did not make EVE pay to win...it already was. People that claim EVE was not already P2W are lying and those saying injectors made it P2W are not using the definition this forum typically uses that P2W is spending real cash to get past the grinding/tedium and advance to end game. In EVE end game is what you the player wants to do in the game.
So say in WoW I could beat the last boss in a raid and sell you that item for real cash...that is not P2W? It is a one to one trade.
I should add I have less problem with people already in the game able to buy characters for alts than I have with new people coming into the game able to buy advanced characters. While still P2W'ish, atleast people have put in time into a game for Alts and should instead have to qualify for the purchased character. I.E in WoW have to have a max level character to buy a lvl 60 instead of just being a new player buying one. I find that very P2W.
Eve devs do not create content. The provide mechanics and then let the player base explore them as they will.
The fact that people bring up Eve and content tells me they do not understand the game.
In regards to the post above.
You spend real life money. The nub doesn't. Who is winning again?
just look up ship losses and see what is more than likely to happen to someone like the above poster who thinks spending real life money in Eve to buy stuff makes him a winner. Better yet, please don't. Just jump in with all the bling you can buy and un-dock.........Eve vets will love you long time.
What about the new corp that wants to be a mining powerhouse without taking the time to build up the funds for ships and they just buy them and the SP with cash. Or the trade corp that want a jump capable ship but does not want to put the few months in for the SP so they buy the SP and ship. Those are aspects of the game people are now paying to bypass as in many other games people want to bypass the collection of armor, weapons, and levels and just buy them. Many on this board have said that is P2W.
Many on this board clearly can't discern between P2A vs P2W, just means many are incorrect.
I have the same option as any one else, I can earn it in game with no significant effort, or buy it.
I currently have well over 60B in assets including ISK, what someone chooses to buy has no impact on my operations.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I stopped playing Eve a few years back because it took too much of my time. My attention span has dwindled over the years. :pleased:
The real question I have, in these threads as in for other games in general with this P2W debate. Do the posters that cry 'It's P2W! RIP!' etc. actually play the games they post this about? Or is it simply to yell 'Foul!' at something (the P2W monicker) they dislike? While I have no issue if the reasons are the latter, shouldn't it be reasonable to expect some knowledge of the accused game before simply claiming 'P2W'?
Personally, from my recollections of the game, the fact that the skills are passive didn't make it any easier to PvP. Mining? No matter the ship, it's still hella long (or relaxing depending on the pov) and the ISK gained is negligible versus simply buying ISK in the first place through PLEX. Manufacturing? Ok, you may be able to build more with less resource loss but again, for ISK? PLEX is still a better choice there. Plus it doesn't get you any better access to lab slots. Might change the meager variety of what's available to newer players but in no way does it make the game any easier or more enjoyable.
That fun is there from the start, or it never was.
As PvP drives everything in EVE .... the political game, the economical game, the war games ... something like a PvE server would not work in EVE IMHO. And if someone tried, player numbers would drop rapidly after a few months after they run out of PvE content (as can be seen in most other MMO's) .. until the next expansion.
Have fun
You base your assumption on false premise that PVP drives "everything" in EVE...it does not, not even by a long shot. Your 2nd false assumption is that people do not play EVE for PVE.
What drives EVE is a ship loss and there are about as many ships lost in PVE as there are in PVP...
If you lose your ship in PvE in EVE you are doing something wrong, especially in planning. Exception to this rule: the Drifter NPCs that only very recently appeared (with their random one shot kills). Even the old 10/10 Ultima Station Shots in null sec were easy with proper Planning. Last ship i lost in PvE was 8 years ago. And i do 80:20 PvE vs PvP. One does not risk a 3 billion ISK PvE boat. And yes, people do PvE in EVE. But from the point of a ship seller in High Sec: the majority of customers are PvP customers by an order of magnitude.
Game has been dead for a long time. The constant unfinished expansions with tons of stuff that never gets fixed just kept adding to the overall cesspool of lowlifes the game is.
It's sad because i played it for a long time and still have my 90M SP characters. But i doubt they will ever recover or finish any of the unfinished content they created over the years.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
If you lose your ship in PvE in EVE you are doing something wrong, especially in planning. Exception to this rule: the Drifter NPCs that only very recently appeared (with their random one shot kills). Even the old 10/10 Ultima Station Shots in null sec were easy with proper Planning. Last ship i lost in PvE was 8 years ago. And i do 80:20 PvE vs PvP. One does not risk a 3 billion ISK PvE boat. And yes, people do PvE in EVE. But from the point of a ship seller in High Sec: the majority of customers are PvP customers by an order of magnitude.
Have fun
And yet, nothing you said address the point I was making, nor defy statistics. Just more vain assumptions...
And yet, nothing you said address the point I was making, nor defy statistics. Just more vain assumptions...
What you call assumptions I call over a decade experience in playing EVE Online. If you want official statistics, check out plenty of them from the CCP economy expert. Especially the ones about lost ships by type. And no, the Rifter is not a PvE ship ;-).
What you call assumptions I call over a decade experience in playing EVE Online. If you want official statistics, check out plenty of them from the CCP economy expert. Especially the ones about lost ships by type. And no, the Rifter is not a PvE ship ;-).
Have fun
That was my point, your "experience" not correlating with official statistics... like I said, you just make vain assumptions.
btw. Rifter dominance is long, long over.... more often than not, you may hear people complaining it is the weakest T1 frig....
A truly disturbing development for me. I still play EVE regularly and with a passion. There were already P2W overtones with plex, but this truly changes the game in a way that I didn't see coming. I'm very active in the EVE forums, but I might as well say here... this is the first time I'm so disappointed, I might move on.
EvE has started on the P2W path since they started to heavily push players to get secondary accounts, and adjusted (or left alone bad) mechanics so you require secondary accounts if you wish to play solo
Big rig, dual or plus screens, funding accounts: money
This has been going on for years and the schadenfreude crowd (the one with disposable scouts, disposable scammers, offgrid boosters etc) has been hard at work pretending secondary accounts (which need investments to use properly, at least another screen, plus funding it: you can do it with ingame isk by buying a PLEX, it's still real money and time in the end) are not P2W
tldr; a 1st person shooter gameplay levels investment differences in gaming gear: more IRL money does not bring a real advantage EvE actually rewards putting a lot of IRL money into it, due to its gameplay, which has been tweaked for such a path
Sky is falling, universe is imploding, EvE is doomed. TBH I dont give a rats ass about this, CCP been doing this in terms of character trading via the forum. They been doing this for years. And players (new ones) would just buy plex, turn into ISK, buy toon. Same concept, just with more steps.
Eve devs do not create content. The provide mechanics and then let the player base explore them as they will.
The fact that people bring up Eve and content tells me they do not understand the game.
In regards to the post above.
You spend real life money. The nub doesn't. Who is winning again?
just look up ship losses and see what is more than likely to happen to someone like the above poster who thinks spending real life money in Eve to buy stuff makes him a winner. Better yet, please don't. Just jump in with all the bling you can buy and un-dock.........Eve vets will love you long time.
What about the new corp that wants to be a mining powerhouse without taking the time to build up the funds for ships and they just buy them and the SP with cash. Or the trade corp that want a jump capable ship but does not want to put the few months in for the SP so they buy the SP and ship. Those are aspects of the game people are now paying to bypass as in many other games people want to bypass the collection of armor, weapons, and levels and just buy them. Many on this board have said that is P2W.
Many on this board clearly can't discern between P2A vs P2W, just means many are incorrect.
I have the same option as any one else, I can earn it in game with no significant effort, or buy it.
I currently have well over 60B in assets including ISK, what someone chooses to buy has no impact on my operations.
Many on this board try to pretend there is a difference in games where there are no "winners" just people with paid advantages.
Sky is falling, universe is imploding, EvE is doomed. TBH I dont give a rats ass about this, CCP been doing this in terms of character trading via the forum. They been doing this for years. And players (new ones) would just buy plex, turn into ISK, buy toon. Same concept, just with more steps.
CCP, just streamline it.
Sky is falling....sure.
Sky might not be falling, but CCP disproved one astrophysics principle that the universe is expanding but is instead contracting.
Comments
you seem to be the one bragging about EVE's limited PvE. It is the weakest point of the game that gets the least amount of love. If there was not PvP threat to the higher level PvE there would be no threat to it. So a PvE only server would be dead in a month unless CCP put a lot of time giving the PvE system more depth, meaning, and danger.
But on with the response
These posts that start "p2w" and "eve"
~Gawd knows i get tired of posting on here which is why i wont try and argue on most of the posts... but for clarification
Can anyone show me a single person who has won eve????
Lets look at the SP thing.... Dr Caymus is the highest SP player in eve, and i know he hasn't won anything, given that he rarely undocks and merely just builds things.
So how is buying SP going to make anyone else win things.
I have roughly 140mill sp on this toon, and trust me when i say i definitely dont win eve. In fact any player who spends maybe 3-6 months in eve can probably quite easily beat me in a 1v1 as i suck... So nope Buying SP wont change this.
Now lets look at my alts, I have varying levels, but 3 accounts and 9 toons, they vary from 8mill sp upto 140mill sp.
And of them this is the only toon that pvps' all my other toons are either trade or industry focussed , and even though i haven't yet built one i have skills to build EVERY item in EvE does that mean i won eve, coz im damn sure i haven't
So to those anit-ccp / eve posters... I ask you one question
Show me a single person that has won eve ..... if you cannot do this then can you explain how Pay 2 Win applies... or is merely you like to use terms that you heard another guy use,
In eve the player that might win today will lose tomorrow that is how the game survives, we dont have GMs to hand hold us, or big bright yellow !/? s to help us get to endgame... oh wait... there is NO endgame.
Let me repeat that for you hard of hearing
"we have NO ENDGAME"
So feel free to give me a single person who has won EvE .... and then prove to me how its p2w????
This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game
where of course you're welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy
So EVE's PVE is pointless, limited, without threat and without challenge?
I suppose you solo Sansha incursions, which generate great quantities of ISK, and have to be dealt with by the players because the game world is actually negatively impacted until they are dealt with.
Sleepers in wormholes, especially the higher level ones are very dangerous and I've watched couple of carriers go boom when the tide went badly for the fleet trying to clear the anom. Also sleeper loot is integral in driving EVE's very extensive crafting model.
Even in null sec anoms, I've lost a few Ishtars to npcs when I got locked up too close and couldn't break free. Let's not talk about 10/10 escalations such as Mazes that claim more than their fair share of the unwary, however can drop some of the greatest loot in the game.
Planetary exploration, source of valuable components which are used to create fuel blocks and along with salvage are used to create everything from ship parts to the upcoming Citadel stations.
Exploration of sites is another PVE aspect, very safe in high sec, in WH's damn dangerous but again, very high rewards. Also have Ghost Sites and other thing to explore and exploit.
Want to go on the wild side, how about drug production, illegal by the high sec empires, manufactured through a complex set of processes in the wilds of null sec and the output can either turn the tide of battle or create a crippling addiction.
Mission running up to level 5 (again, dangerous), mining which if you gas mine in WH's you'll learn how dangerous the profession can be.
Oh yes, moon mining, another great income source, and the cause of many wars in null sec as empire fight for control of them.
So what sort of PVE is EVE lacking? I know, scripted, dance with the star raiding, and you are correct, totally absent from EVE, and let's hope they never come up with anything like it.
Like I said, "Do you even PVE bro?" Doesn't sound like it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Give me a single person that has won any MMORPG.....then no game is P2W...it is a useless term and purchasing ingame benefits to move past tedious or grindy portions of the game to advance to more competitive protions of the game with real money is just good game play.....
No one buys anything in any game and just becomes the boss without some practice. Some takes more than others, but I think many would say if I can pay to move past grinding and waiting in EVE that one has to do and instead I can just pay money to have SP's and endless ships to practice with makes me more "winning" than a nub just joining that now has to grind out ingame cash for ships, wait for training, and have to grind out more ingame case to buy new ships to replace their loses.
The fact that people bring up Eve and content tells me they do not understand the game.
In regards to the post above.
You spend real life money. The nub doesn't. Who is winning again?
just look up ship losses and see what is more than likely to happen to someone like the above poster who thinks spending real life money in Eve to buy stuff makes him a winner. Better yet, please don't. Just jump in with all the bling you can buy and un-dock.........Eve vets will love you long time.
that is the story you like people to believe more people do, but the truth is that people buy a bunch of cruisers with very little bling just the PvP basics so while we have raids my loses mean crap cause it will take me no time if I have the cash to replace them and I can even supply my corp mates with ships. While you have to go out and spend time getting ingame cash to replace ships.
Once again your argument about the person spending cash is not "winning" over the person not spending cash because of the purchasing means no game is P2W. Cause if I can get the same stuff ingame that you bought nothing is P2W.
What about the new corp that wants to be a mining powerhouse without taking the time to build up the funds for ships and they just buy them and the SP with cash. Or the trade corp that want a jump capable ship but does not want to put the few months in for the SP so they buy the SP and ship. Those are aspects of the game people are now paying to bypass as in many other games people want to bypass the collection of armor, weapons, and levels and just buy them. Many on this board have said that is P2W.
Yes you can repeat things over and over , but eventually you will get the top gear from the top boss, hit top level.... this you cannot do in eve (or any sandbox for that matter) even considering the skills you can train it would take (using todays rough esitmate) 19 years to train all skills, that without new skills that come in to the game every few months...
EvE has no end... (until ccp pull plug)
But, your getting off the point about the injectors, consider character trading has been in eve for at least 7 years how is this any different from then.
But all you've done is help to validate my point by using just a small facet of eve to declare how to win eve.... pvp is a core game play mechanic but not the be all and end all.... Many players like myself do little to no pvp in eve, so how would any non pvper win eve.
Fact is your confusing the facts with urban myths about eve. For starter the isk sink involved to get enough SP from the injectors far far outweighs any benefit.
this is taken directly from the description of the item
To put this into context a well augmented toon can get about 2940ish SP per hour, so in fact your talking about 50 hours of training, so a smidge over 2 days training (rememer skill points build up as long as you have active subs and not in game), then after you hit 5mill sp you see this reduces gains by 25% to less than 2 days of training..
So would you like to consider the amount of cash to buy a toon that can confidently fly (lets be easy) cruiser
A Good cruiser pilot will have between 8-14mill sp (single race) so from new you will need around 28 of these injectors, at a cost (currently 640m {or 50% of a plex}) so 14 plexes which retail at about £10-14 depending on sales.. so for a mere £200 you can fly a cruiser. when for the same value of plexes you could buy (and have been able to for about 6 years) a toon in region of 30mill sp..... so again how is this new feature a pay 2 win, fact is its actually far far far worse return on your cash for a similar toon..
Then what your also forgetting that the SP that you inject is removed from another player, so the actually effect of the implant is double (in a 1v1 situation)
This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game
where of course you're welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy
Same as your arbitrary ideas about the winner being the first to down a boss. In EVE being a powerful corp controlling space. Being a mover and shaker are winners. Since a game like WoW has no real end with new content coming out there is no final winner in your terms any more than a Corp can win EVE.
Character trading is P2W. I contend EVE has been and will be P2W.
"Winning" in Eve is simple. Being able to do what you want, when you want, doing the least amount of want you do not want to do. I just join and with some real life cash I can get a Corp to out compete yours in trade or mining because while you have to get the resouces I buy them. You wait to fly a jump ship, stealth ship, mining fleet...I guy the SP and ships to do it. Now my Corp is "winning" cause that is my end game. I bought it. I skipped your months of skill training and harvesting resources.
Injectors did not make EVE pay to win...it already was. People that claim EVE was not already P2W are lying and those saying injectors made it P2W are not using the definition this forum typically uses that P2W is spending real cash to get past the grinding/tedium and advance to end game. In EVE end game is what you the player wants to do in the game.
So say in WoW I could beat the last boss in a raid and sell you that item for real cash...that is not P2W? It is a one to one trade.
I have the same option as any one else, I can earn it in game with no significant effort, or buy it.
I currently have well over 60B in assets including ISK, what someone chooses to buy has no impact on my operations.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The real question I have, in these threads as in for other games in general with this P2W debate.
Do the posters that cry 'It's P2W! RIP!' etc. actually play the games they post this about? Or is it simply to yell 'Foul!' at something (the P2W monicker) they dislike?
While I have no issue if the reasons are the latter, shouldn't it be reasonable to expect some knowledge of the accused game before simply claiming 'P2W'?
Personally, from my recollections of the game, the fact that the skills are passive didn't make it any easier to PvP. Mining? No matter the ship, it's still hella long (or relaxing depending on the pov) and the ISK gained is negligible versus simply buying ISK in the first place through PLEX.
Manufacturing? Ok, you may be able to build more with less resource loss but again, for ISK? PLEX is still a better choice there.
Plus it doesn't get you any better access to lab slots.
Might change the meager variety of what's available to newer players but in no way does it make the game any easier or more enjoyable.
That fun is there from the start, or it never was.
Have fun
It's sad because i played it for a long time and still have my 90M SP characters. But i doubt they will ever recover or finish any of the unfinished content they created over the years.
R.I.P EvE Online
o7
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
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- SEANMCAD
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Have fun
btw. Rifter dominance is long, long over.... more often than not, you may hear people complaining it is the weakest T1 frig....
Big rig, dual or plus screens, funding accounts: money
This has been going on for years and the schadenfreude crowd (the one with disposable scouts, disposable scammers, offgrid boosters etc) has been hard at work pretending secondary accounts (which need investments to use properly, at least another screen, plus funding it: you can do it with ingame isk by buying a PLEX, it's still real money and time in the end) are not P2W
tldr; a 1st person shooter gameplay levels investment differences in gaming gear: more IRL money does not bring a real advantage
EvE actually rewards putting a lot of IRL money into it, due to its gameplay, which has been tweaked for such a path
CCP, just streamline it.
Sky is falling....sure.
"
Skill Injectors Live - Anyone maxed out yet?
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