Every wolf needs a sheep once and a while. And there are tons of wolves waiting out there. But no game for them? - I guess all the sheeps went to WoW to stay safe and be bored like f***.
I love starting as a sheep. Getting PK'd. Just makes me want to level up even harder to get my revenge and kill the other wolves. And some sheeps. I like the player-made tactics, diplomacy and rules there are in a open world pvp/pk game.
Are there no open world sandbox games where you are free to do what you want? Kill your teammates if thats what you want. Mess around with your friends like knockbacking them over cliffs. Hunt down a noob who talks trash in General Chat about you and slay his a**.
Really? No games out there? And I don't want a Runescape or 2d Diablo kind of game. I want a new Vanguard, Asherons Call 2, Dark and Light kind of game.
Do these games really need to be FFA? cant there be a compromise such as eve's system?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Every wolf needs a sheep once and a while. And there are tons of wolves waiting out there. But no game for them? - I guess all the sheeps went to WoW to stay safe and be bored like f***.
I love starting as a sheep. Getting PK'd. Just makes me want to level up even harder to get my revenge and kill the other wolves. And some sheeps. I like the player-made tactics, diplomacy and rules there are in a open world pvp/pk game.
Are there no open world sandbox games where you are free to do what you want? Kill your teammates if thats what you want. Mess around with your friends like knockbacking them over cliffs. Hunt down a noob who talks trash in General Chat about you and slay his a**.
Really? No games out there? And I don't want a Runescape or 2d Diablo kind of game. I want a new Vanguard, Asherons Call 2, Dark and Light kind of game.
So, what you're saying is that you want a game where you can level up then hang out by the spawn point and one-shot newbies?
Wow, you're such a power gamer.
The reason this type of game is a complete and abject failure is precisely because gankers are low-life scum who do not actually want a challenge or to "play the game". They want to be able to camp a level 1 spawn point and murder new players. The second an actual threat comes along they pull their ethernet cord out.
Secondly, this type of game is usually full of cheats and hacks that make it impossible for legit players to have a good experience.
In the end, gankers are pathetic and run from any real challenge while actual players get blown up by people using cheat engine to give themselves 999 in all their stats.
I can see some ways to deal with encouraging a balance of players in a game. not all of these mechanics are required, but some are worth considering and could be interesting.
_____________________
Solidly defined balance. Something like a new character(5 minutes old) with perfect play could take out the most optimized build against their character, and end up with 30% of their health left after the fight.
PvPer tiered so that you're generally only going to want to do it for "other tangible reasons". A mechanic along the lines of no base death penalty, but after attacking a player that character starts to get death penalties(starting with exp loss, item loss, and similar) that last a long while and also punish characters that are only alts.
The ability to punish using your character's earned reputation. While at default there could be no penalties for killing a player(even the one's above), the person you killed could spend their character's reputation to get the vengeance of their choice(no longer able to enter X town, imprisonment if entered the wrong town, confiscation of locally banked items, higher taxes). The goal being to pretty much let the losing target know that they screwed someone over, using game mechanics that they like to do.
The inability to hide from reprisals. For instance Haven and Hearth has the ability to kill thiefs/murderers while they are offline, the game has permadeath. Criminals having to store their items in the world(rather than banks), with those stashes being lootable by any player they have killed previously(to the extent that it's possible to actually come out ahead after a gank+loot+death).
If the game does having looting. Knowing that most of the loot is useless without going through complex "fitting" processes for armor, weapons ending up broken, and similar.
A sane bounty system. After killing a player anyone can pick up your bounty and use it to freely track you and kill you without penalty(no other rewards or punishments). Requires a larger world where finding a mark is actually hard, so that this feels like an unfair advantage(favoring bounty hunters).
_______________________
Just open up a few of those mechanics and you can start to do other things when you have a sane/balanced open world PvPer system:
No instances even for raids. Meaning that your guild/groups mark could be stolen. Forcing even PvE'er players to consider of PvPer is worth it.
Old style "large dungeons" that had multiple bosses, that could also function as shortcuts to other places, crafting/gathering locations, and in general serve more than one purpose.
PvPer mechanics ensuring that the population naturally spreads out, or forms meaningful groups.
explorer/high score minigames. Visit the most area's in a single life(with PvPer deaths resetting the score), Most kills on a single life, and probably a few other things.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Runescape Darkfall unholy wars Shadowbane Diablo 2 (hardcore) Path of Exile (hardcore) dayz... h1z1? fallout2238/fonline2/fonline:reloaded - Earthrise - Yeah still waiting... The Repopulation - Yeah still waiting... Eve online - The EVE announced in '14 with fps element seems nice Shores of hazeron Neocron 2 Ultima online Wurm Online Life is Feudal Mount & Blade Reign of Kings Pathfinder Online Albion Crowfall Das Tal-> really like this one
Shrouds of the avatar/P2P - From their IRC though: There's no full loot pvp in the game, but there will be a little bit - like loot ransom, they want to make a ranking-system for pvp. they just added some of the first intended open pvp zones in the form of shardfalls.
the genre did not die ... it changed .. changed to MOBAs, instanced games, and card games ....
Genres follow evolution-like paths, but the link you're describing MMORPGs to MOBA/card games) doesn't exist. Those genres came from distinct other paths.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Well at least Lineage 1 still is the second most popular MMO without giving up on being an old school open world pvp based MMO. It makes me believe that there is still hope for the genre.
The problem with FFA PvP games is you are either killing newbs and getting bored as hell or you are being destroyed and continuously frustrated. There is no middle ground clashes with the enemy. There is rarely ever a fair fight or battle. Maybe 1% of the PvP crowd are good enough to challenge themselves with average to difficult fights. Also, due to the shear competitive atmosphere, every one of these games is plagued with cheaters. This genre is hopeless. Not because of carebears but because of the hardcore PvPer's themselves.
It depends on the pvp system Lineage has a system of karma that halts people that intend to kill newbies without any reason. If you kill a neutral player in Lineage without the player fights back, you will become pk and you can drop your items if you die. Any player can kill a pk without problem, a pk killer don't become pk and just has a chance to get an item from the pk.
Yes, so? They are all MMOs now, by this, reviewers, industry firms and other sites' definition.
LoL is defined as a MOBA, even by this site, not an MMORPG or even MMO.
Just because there is a game listed on this site, doesn't mean it's an MMORPG, there are games like Icewind Dale listed that belong much more in the genre of single player RPG than they do even multiplayer, let alone MMO.
LoL is not a persistent world, it is not massive, it is a small instanced match, like an online RTS.
And if we start defining MMO or MMORPG as simply having lots of online players in arena, then by that definition, Unreal Tournament, Quake 3, Counter-Strike and Halo are MMO. Which is ridiculous, you might as well start calling Facebook an MMO at that point, lots of people playing games.
LoL has nothing to do with MMO. I've played LoL, it's just your hero, minions and defense towers, similar to RTS, games like Heroes of Might and magic or tower defense games. It is not an MMO, has nothing to do with MMO, stop pretending it is an MMO, even the LoL developers don't call it an MMO.
MOBA have nothing to do with open world PVP MMO either, so why are you even bringing it up.
MOBA have nothing to do with open world PVP MMO either, so why are you even bringing it up.
Because this topic is "NO open world PvP MMO" .. and to explain why .. let's talk about the MMOs, like LoL, that are actually popular.
People play LoL .. and no little time for "open world pvp MMO" .. sounds logical to me. People only have so much time for entertainment.
Comments
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Wow, you're such a power gamer.
The reason this type of game is a complete and abject failure is precisely because gankers are low-life scum who do not actually want a challenge or to "play the game". They want to be able to camp a level 1 spawn point and murder new players. The second an actual threat comes along they pull their ethernet cord out.
Secondly, this type of game is usually full of cheats and hacks that make it impossible for legit players to have a good experience.
In the end, gankers are pathetic and run from any real challenge while actual players get blown up by people using cheat engine to give themselves 999 in all their stats.
In fact LoL borrowed more from online RTS games than they did from MMO.
_____________________
Solidly defined balance. Something like a new character(5 minutes old) with perfect play could take out the most optimized build against their character, and end up with 30% of their health left after the fight.
PvPer tiered so that you're generally only going to want to do it for "other tangible reasons". A mechanic along the lines of no base death penalty, but after attacking a player that character starts to get death penalties(starting with exp loss, item loss, and similar) that last a long while and also punish characters that are only alts.
The ability to punish using your character's earned reputation. While at default there could be no penalties for killing a player(even the one's above), the person you killed could spend their character's reputation to get the vengeance of their choice(no longer able to enter X town, imprisonment if entered the wrong town, confiscation of locally banked items, higher taxes). The goal being to pretty much let the losing target know that they screwed someone over, using game mechanics that they like to do.
The inability to hide from reprisals. For instance Haven and Hearth has the ability to kill thiefs/murderers while they are offline, the game has permadeath. Criminals having to store their items in the world(rather than banks), with those stashes being lootable by any player they have killed previously(to the extent that it's possible to actually come out ahead after a gank+loot+death).
If the game does having looting. Knowing that most of the loot is useless without going through complex "fitting" processes for armor, weapons ending up broken, and similar.
A sane bounty system. After killing a player anyone can pick up your bounty and use it to freely track you and kill you without penalty(no other rewards or punishments). Requires a larger world where finding a mark is actually hard, so that this feels like an unfair advantage(favoring bounty hunters).
_______________________
Just open up a few of those mechanics and you can start to do other things when you have a sane/balanced open world PvPer system:
No instances even for raids. Meaning that your guild/groups mark could be stolen. Forcing even PvE'er players to consider of PvPer is worth it.
Old style "large dungeons" that had multiple bosses, that could also function as shortcuts to other places, crafting/gathering locations, and in general serve more than one purpose.
PvPer mechanics ensuring that the population naturally spreads out, or forms meaningful groups.
explorer/high score minigames. Visit the most area's in a single life(with PvPer deaths resetting the score), Most kills on a single life, and probably a few other things.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
One of the better arguments in its favor. I don't agree, but it is a good argument, nonetheless.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Darkfall unholy wars
Shadowbane
Diablo 2 (hardcore)
Path of Exile (hardcore)
dayz... h1z1?
fallout2238/fonline2/fonline:reloaded -
Earthrise - Yeah still waiting...
The Repopulation - Yeah still waiting...
Eve online - The EVE announced in '14 with fps element seems nice
Shores of hazeron
Neocron 2
Ultima online
Wurm Online
Life is Feudal
Mount & Blade
Reign of Kings
Pathfinder Online
Albion
Crowfall
Das Tal-> really like this one
www.openmeridian.org. (warning: brutal)
http://store.steampowered.com/app/297470/
http://shardsonline.com/
Shrouds of the avatar/P2P - From their IRC though: There's no full loot pvp in the game, but there will be a little bit - like loot ransom, they want to make a ranking-system for pvp. they just added some of the first intended open pvp zones in the form of shardfalls.
Have Continuum on PC but haven't bought it yet.
Other notable games:
http://www.linkrealms.com/
http://www.suddencrisis.com/ (not started, unfinished, ???)
http://playboundless.com/
-> not full loot PvP but it would be nice
Sway all day, butterfly flaps all the way!
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
LoL is defined as a MOBA, even by this site, not an MMORPG or even MMO.
Just because there is a game listed on this site, doesn't mean it's an MMORPG, there are games like Icewind Dale listed that belong much more in the genre of single player RPG than they do even multiplayer, let alone MMO.
LoL is not a persistent world, it is not massive, it is a small instanced match, like an online RTS.
And if we start defining MMO or MMORPG as simply having lots of online players in arena, then by that definition, Unreal Tournament, Quake 3, Counter-Strike and Halo are MMO. Which is ridiculous, you might as well start calling Facebook an MMO at that point, lots of people playing games.
LoL has nothing to do with MMO. I've played LoL, it's just your hero, minions and defense towers, similar to RTS, games like Heroes of Might and magic or tower defense games. It is not an MMO, has nothing to do with MMO, stop pretending it is an MMO, even the LoL developers don't call it an MMO.
MOBA have nothing to do with open world PVP MMO either, so why are you even bringing it up.