Once upon a time, people signing up to PuG understood that a not-stellar experience was the most probable result. "Easy solution: Don't PuG," we would respond to every whine.
Then Blizzard decided to make it an assembly line.
It's always been difficult for me to decide which scenario was the most inhumane. Neither case gives the New Player any breaks.
If I see a new person with low gear asking what do we do here I'm not going to be amused. I know, bad attitude but when you are farming a dungeon and just want speedruns to grind you will understand. I guess that's what guilds are for.
That's the problem with MMO these days, it is all about "farming dungeons for gears" and "gear chase"
That's true. XIV at launch had two groups: newbs mad at elitists for kicking them from speed runs, and elitists mad at devs (but offloading on noobs) because you had do do one of two dungeons repeatedededededly.
About the 10th time through, you just wanted it to be over. Please.
A game doesn't create anything, player's reactions, tendencies, lack of patience, inability to teach as well as truly socialize, etc.. does. Which is why it was still an issue long ago. Plenty were turned away from groups/guilds, etc back in the day, our guild had a rather strict join policy in SWG for Vette , DWB or PVP groups, even stricter for guild invites.
Nonsense, shortsighted planning does create a bad situation. Give a group one or two dungeons to cap tokens on and the outcome is predictable.
Literally any mmo player who has ever used a cross server DF can tell you the pitfalls, and yet time and time again, companies choose to go in blind.
Make one tank superior and you'll have people playing that and masochists playing the other and pleading for nerfs/buffs. For instance, every mmo-mather that x% -dmg is better than +x% health in myriad ways and yet the companies still insist on learning the hard way.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
PUG's have always had issues, nothing wrong with them, but you would be better of joining a guild. Most will not only overlook sub par builds, but give you the advice you need so that never really happens.
I remember many of us being attached to our vampires in ESO, what do you get on the first raid? Flame traps, flame elementals, fire and more fire. Burn, burn, burn some more, die.
That was an easy one to fix, once guild mates knew, they just dropped vampire before first raid. Of course if you were not raiding and only doing PvP the advice might be to keep it.
If I see a new person with low gear asking what do we do here I'm not going to be amused. I know, bad attitude but when you are farming a dungeon and just want speedruns to grind you will understand. I guess that's what guilds are for.
That's the problem with MMO these days, it is all about "farming dungeons for gears" and "gear chase"
That's true. XIV at launch had two groups: newbs mad at elitists for kicking them from speed runs, and elitists mad at devs (but offloading on noobs) because you had do do one of two dungeons repeatedededededly.
About the 10th time through, you just wanted it to be over. Please.
One of two? I think you mean one. AK or riot.
Your average player actually preferred WP because it was much easier to speed run due to the ability to pretty much exploit the mechanics however a patch a couple months in helped prevent that. WP runs were still technically faster than AK runs for most people after that, especially if you ran with 2 BMs. However yes some of us did prefer AK since with the right group you could clear it just about as fast as WP and get a slightly better reward per run.
My favorite thing about PUGs in FFXIV was running into people who were used to playing with terrible bards who didn't know how to utilize their full skills properly, and surprising the hell out of them. I remember a particular run where I popped in through duty finder and it was me and another bard as our dps. As soon as we get in the tank goes "Damn 2 bards. This is going to be slow." Me and the bard didn't bother to respond, just started going through. After the first couple pulls the tank just says "Wow". We kept going up to clearing the 1st boss, tank stops and goes "Holy shit I've never gotten through this fast. I thought bards were supposed to be the worst DPS." Told him "You've been been playing with people who have no idea wtf they're doing".
But yeah, XIV was also full of asshats who liked to blame others as I mentioned in my previous post, when they're the ones who suck. I had an alt that was a bard as well. Took him into an AK run when he wasn't fully geared yet, in order to farm to get him geared. Wound up with 3 douchebags who are all from the same guild. We get to the wall boss, healer and other DPS get knocked off the walkway on the first knockback. Tank gets knocked off at bees then I get the boss down to about 10% after that before dying. Who gets blamed for not beating it, then kicked? The 1 guy who didn't completely fail at the main mechanic of the fight.
Do we really need this feature of kicking people from groups?
Because in entertainment, there is little reason to tolerate strangers for any reasons?
If i don't like the way a PUG play .. whether it is because they are not doing it right, or be obnoxious, or talk too much, or any reason, is there a reason why i should not just hit "quit"? We are talking about games here, with zero commitment, and i am not looking to make friends.
BTW, "kick" is too much work .. just "quit" is easier. Now if someone else is kicking someone, that is another story.
This is just the consequence of new and easier MMO. Group kicks in Everquest were extremely rare, because your reputation mattered.
They don't kick people in the easy mmo's. It is the harder ones that you will have problems. I understand why the kick function is necessary but I also understand how it is sometimes abused and misunderstood. I want to complete a dungeon and I don't have time for noobs who are causing fail after fail. Try some of GW2's dungeons and see what I'm talking about. You will fail a dungeon over 20 times if you don't have the right people. The harder games require a lot of skill and correct builds. Without these then its destined for failure and much frustration.
For every reaction, there is an opposite reaction. Holds true in MMOs, too.
Everytime you think "this guy is a total noob and is dying all the time", there is an "elitist" who is dying all the time because he fails to adjust to the rest of the group. Everytime you think "this guy is talking way too much", *that guy* thinks "this guy is way too quiet".
There is no surefire way to have a good group with PUGs, so the best strategy is tolerance and flexibility. And if you can't adapt, don't do PUGs.
I also find some of the advice here hilarious. "Join a guild". Sure, when guilds usually have entry requirements. Guilds are created by MMO players. When i see the comments here and (though it's most likely wrong) assume they represent the average MMO player, how do you suppose to join a guild unless you already don't need one anymore?
So we can create on ourselves. But how do we recruit people? Either we recruit blindly, or we set entry requirements. The former is tedious if you want like-minded people, the later kinda defeats the purpose as you do exactly what you don't like others doing.
The most effective way would be to recruit people you know of that they are like-minded, with whom you played before..with whom you did a dungeon as a PUG. So we are back to square one.
Obviously it's not always that black and white, but still..
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
If I see a new person with low gear asking what do we do here I'm not going to be amused. I know, bad attitude but when you are farming a dungeon and just want speedruns to grind you will understand. I guess that's what guilds are for.
That's the problem with MMO these days, it is all about "farming dungeons for gears" and "gear chase"
That's true. XIV at launch had two groups: newbs mad at elitists for kicking them from speed runs, and elitists mad at devs (but offloading on noobs) because you had do do one of two dungeons repeatedededededly.
About the 10th time through, you just wanted it to be over. Please.
One of two? I think you mean one. AK or riot.
Kaiser nailed it, but WP gave a few less tomestones but also was a few minutes quicker and was less of a gear check to speed run. Any group could speed run WP. Also, as far as pugs were concerned, there was no damn demon wall.
The only reason I did AK was to break the monotony of WP, but even that got old.
I'll never forget one AK (though I have forgotten their names). I was still farming for ifrit's blade, let alone relic, and they were all three in Relic +1. I wasn't always losing hate, but I wasn't always holding it, and noone ever said a word. They knew I had no real chance to compete, and we just rolled with it. We joked randomly as we could while running. I asked then to just give me literally 5 seconds with the last boss so I could get a rotation in, they did.
But they weren't the norm. People in relic +1 thought relic were below them, relic thought ifrit/garuda were below them, and ifrit/garuda thought others were below them. FFXIV fostered a lot of negativity.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
I can't help that it's specific to one game but FFXIV is interesting in that NAs are a sizable market for the game but the devs unabashedly appeal to the Japanese players before anyone else. Japanese players are doing in pugs what takes NA server-best guilds which is so funny and so sad. We all know that once anyone has tried the content once, everyone trying the content must have tried it before or else serious guilds won't take them serious. It's like saying "You have to beat the Lich King in order to gain access to the Lich King" except that it's a player-created gate. Noone wants to take anyone who hasn't tried the fight, to try the fight.
This mentality extends, in many MMOs all the way down to any remotely hard dungeon boss. If the boss has a mechanic that can't be cheesed, noone has any patience for someone in their first time.
NAs seem to view wiping as an unforgivable sin for whichever player they can pin the cause to and it's disgusting.
The Japanese just regard it all differently and this guy really pounds that home.
I straddle the line between hardcore and casual. I will go play with the best players, help them earn the kill, and beat the boss to smithereens and then go back to my friends who are 2 or 3 tiers/patches/whatever behind and steamroll the content as well as I can.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Here's my advice: Don't be a jackass and don't suck. These games are not hard.
After launch, I took both tanks to 50. Out of boredom, I followed that with both healers and I'll never forget the paladins I'd encounter at 50 who never caught on to the fact that Flash was based around the caster, and not the target.
I remember one Paladin tank who did nothing, NOTHING, except Rage of Halone (not the combo, just RoH) and Flash. Most annoying sound ever, when spammed like that.
That said, I don't mind players who legitimately suck. As matter of fact, it's usually quicker just to drag the corpse of a bad player to the end boss than waste time bickering and arguing about kicking. What I hate is players who deliberately suck because they like the way a weapon/gearset looks, they think bikini runs are funny, or they're role-playing to match a character name, or any other aspect that causes them to deliberately gimp their output like thinking one spell looks cooler so they use it instead of the spell they should be using.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Here's my advice: Don't be a jackass and don't suck. These games are not hard.
Actually that's a point, apart form raids, what do people do a in group these days that any old build can't handle? Everyone heals etc. I can remember going in as a full group to a contested region in DAOC and you were not sure the party would come back alive doing just simple quests.
Got any terrific advice about improving player retention for the company?
Adjust the difficulty so that fewer people suck
I will agree that it seems like the blame game is worse than what it used to be. I tank and I've been blamed for wipes more in this past year than in previous years. Oh, and I'm more than willing to admit when it is my fault. I play in bed, so when I used to raid with my guild I would, literally, fall asleep sometimes. It was fun and a joke and people would yell in my ear and stuff. I've even fallen asleep in LFR content and survived. I honestly have no problem telling people I fell asleep, though. Most think it's pretty funny. In the end, I don't really sweat it. Oh what? You want to kick me out? But I'm a tank...... Sure dude. Ok, I guess I'll just re-queue and have to wait 3 minutes to find a new group. DAMN!!!
Honestly, if the group seems like a bunch of whiners and I'm in a PUG then I'll just leave. If I'm not in a PUG then I'll gquit Generally speaking, though, if you're a tank or a healer then you should be prepared to be blamed for everything going wrong, nevermind the fact that you had higher DPS than 3 others in the group I think that tanks and healers are less volatile than DPSers. It's probably because of the short wait times we get.
Speaking as someone that focuses on tanks, and healers on my off-time--
If your measure of your performance as a tank, and especially as a healer, has anything to do with DPS meters, you're doing it wrong. Even in games where tanks can contribute meaningful DPS, after staying alive/holding agro/avoiding what damage you can.
I loved FF14's scholar because I felt like it could contribute meaningful DPS and heal but if someone dies, even someone DPSing lower than my scholar, it's perhaps times to evaluate my performance (it's possible that they stood in red/bad/doom as well, and even likely).
But yes, healers catch the blame first and tanks after that, but if the dungeon was a smashing success, it's because of the leet DPS.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
as sch i always get commendations :P , if the dungeon is a sucess is thanks to every1...
but yeah bads are bads and nothing u can do can change that , because only 1 of every 100 takes advice as that....maybe is because lots had told him , u suck , L2p , noob and what not and is on defensive stance ...
a good/bad community can change how ppl behave no doubt
I'm not an elitist. I have no problem helping lower level players, and do so relatively frequently... I have no problem explaining what we need to do if someone hasn't been in a dungeon before, etc...
And yet I have kicked plenty of people from my parties... the last game I was in where I did it was skyforge...
Here are the offenses which will get me to try and vote/kick you...
1) Leeroy Jenkins syndrome - Running into mobs or pulling while the group is paused for any reason, with no warning. 2) Refusing to play your class - I.E. If you are a support in skyforge or a healer elsewhere and you have queued as such, you better be healing/shielding. If you are too busy trying to DPS to support your group, you should NOT be playing that class. That being said, you do it once I will explain that you are a critical part of our group and that we need you to contribute within your role... Do it a second time and people start getting upset. Do it a third time and we kick you. 3) Being rude/abusive/racist/etc... 4) Going stealth AFK or long-term AFK.
There may be some other conditions, but those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head.
My friends and myself operate as premades as often as possible and pug only when necessary.
When we do PUG we have one guideline, 'We welcome the ignorant but won't tolerate the stupid.'
New and don't know what to do? Great and welcome, here is some stuff, some advice, a couple quick tips lets go. Ahh a wipe. No worries. Happens to everyone, etc etc
A few wipes in...Please don't do "this very explicit definition of X."...they do X....mate plz dont do X again ...does X again..../kick
Here's my advice: Don't be a jackass and don't suck. These games are not hard.
Actually that's a point, apart form raids, what do people do a in group these days that any old build can't handle? Everyone heals etc. I can remember going in as a full group to a contested region in DAOC and you were not sure the party would come back alive doing just simple quests.
VERY rarely, dungeons actually have a hard boss fight, but you're largely right. Any group with slapped together builds can get most things done--but not efficiently.
Which is what creates the strife between hardcores and casuals. When it's Mr. Elitist's fifteenth, or hundred-and-fifteenth time through, he just wants it over and sometimes the variance on play creates a huge defecit in the person's capabilities vs potential.
It's especially irritating when you do get the random boss fight that can't be cheesed and the reason you're not winning is the special-snowflake.
But that's a problem mmo companies refuse to dirty their hands with, how to make oil and water play well together.
Ever played XIV? There was this one fight, at 2.0 release, called Demon wall that could, if not handled right, shove players off a ledge and too their doom.
Sometime around my 50th-100th time through, I get a bard that I just...know...has to be knew to the instance. He's doing weird things, but whatever. I don't say anything til Demon Wall because I don't want to scare anyone. I speak up, "Mr. Bard, you seem new here and if so, that's okay. Just speak up, and I'll try to explain.", "Nope, done this a dozen times" sooo we start the fight and first repel the bard gets knocked off. He pipes up "Never seen him do that before.". (That's THE thing he does). After wiping, the other two players leave group without a word, and to be honest, I followed.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Please don't kick people out of groups. This seems to be a new development of the last few years kicking people out of groups because they are not as good as you wish them to be. I wish people would only do it in really extreme cases.
People running a dungeon for the first time.
People making a mistake.
People having a weak build.
People not having really good gear.
People not maximizing their damage output.
People using a spells the way you don't think is best.
Also whatever ever happened to the idea of having fun while playing a game such as running a dungeon with a group of people and helping each other as much as possible to get through the dungeon. Would it not be fun for a good player to help weaker players through the dungeon?
Another thought whatever happened to the idea of learning the dungeon while you are playing it? Is that not the real purpose and fun?
Is it not boring like school or a job to know exactly what you have to do before hand and then just executing it like a bunch of robots in the army.
It just to be fun exploring and running dungeons but in the last few months years you have to be super duper and "AND KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING"
Speed Runs and no sense of fun of doing it.
a world reborn was the last mmo I run dungeons. Why after running 2/3 of the dungeon as both healer and magic damage dealer I quit why?
As a healer I was average sometimes poor if a person insisted on super duper healing and speed. Ran only the easier ones as a healer. As a magic damage dealer I was fine. Had a perfectly good spell rotation which a varied to suit my taste according to the situation. I got kicked because the guy thought I was not using optimum spell rotation. It gives me the feeling of not having control over my own body. And please believe me when I say that my spell rotation was very good.
I have always mainly soloed I now soloed exclusively for the last year. I am now playing guild wars 2. Not a bad game for exploring. I have now reached level 60. I am itching to run a dungeon again. Sometimes its really fun running dungeons. Its more excitement than soloing.
Should I run dungeons again?
Do we really need this feature of kicking people from groups?
You are about 10 years behind and talking to a wall. Most people do not care nowadays. They want instant gratification without effort or time spent enjoying the game. Sad, but true. Online communities are getting worse and we should not see that improve anytime soon. It's why I no longer play MMOs. Single player RPGs ect for me. Much more fun without all the immaturity and elitist asshats.
Comments
Then Blizzard decided to make it an assembly line.
It's always been difficult for me to decide which scenario was the most inhumane. Neither case gives the New Player any breaks.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Literally any mmo player who has ever used a cross server DF can tell you the pitfalls, and yet time and time again, companies choose to go in blind.
Make one tank superior and you'll have people playing that and masochists playing the other and pleading for nerfs/buffs. For instance, every mmo-mather that x% -dmg is better than +x% health in myriad ways and yet the companies still insist on learning the hard way.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Join. A. Guild.
PUG's have always had issues, nothing wrong with them, but you would be better of joining a guild. Most will not only overlook sub par builds, but give you the advice you need so that never really happens.
I remember many of us being attached to our vampires in ESO, what do you get on the first raid? Flame traps, flame elementals, fire and more fire. Burn, burn, burn some more, die.
That was an easy one to fix, once guild mates knew, they just dropped vampire before first raid. Of course if you were not raiding and only doing PvP the advice might be to keep it.
My favorite thing about PUGs in FFXIV was running into people who were used to playing with terrible bards who didn't know how to utilize their full skills properly, and surprising the hell out of them. I remember a particular run where I popped in through duty finder and it was me and another bard as our dps. As soon as we get in the tank goes "Damn 2 bards. This is going to be slow." Me and the bard didn't bother to respond, just started going through. After the first couple pulls the tank just says "Wow". We kept going up to clearing the 1st boss, tank stops and goes "Holy shit I've never gotten through this fast. I thought bards were supposed to be the worst DPS." Told him "You've been been playing with people who have no idea wtf they're doing".
But yeah, XIV was also full of asshats who liked to blame others as I mentioned in my previous post, when they're the ones who suck. I had an alt that was a bard as well. Took him into an AK run when he wasn't fully geared yet, in order to farm to get him geared. Wound up with 3 douchebags who are all from the same guild. We get to the wall boss, healer and other DPS get knocked off the walkway on the first knockback. Tank gets knocked off at bees then I get the boss down to about 10% after that before dying. Who gets blamed for not beating it, then kicked? The 1 guy who didn't completely fail at the main mechanic of the fight.
If i don't like the way a PUG play .. whether it is because they are not doing it right, or be obnoxious, or talk too much, or any reason, is there a reason why i should not just hit "quit"? We are talking about games here, with zero commitment, and i am not looking to make friends.
BTW, "kick" is too much work .. just "quit" is easier. Now if someone else is kicking someone, that is another story.
They don't kick people in the easy mmo's. It is the harder ones that you will have problems. I understand why the kick function is necessary but I also understand how it is sometimes abused and misunderstood. I want to complete a dungeon and I don't have time for noobs who are causing fail after fail. Try some of GW2's dungeons and see what I'm talking about. You will fail a dungeon over 20 times if you don't have the right people. The harder games require a lot of skill and correct builds. Without these then its destined for failure and much frustration.
Everytime you think "this guy is a total noob and is dying all the time", there is an "elitist" who is dying all the time because he fails to adjust to the rest of the group. Everytime you think "this guy is talking way too much", *that guy* thinks "this guy is way too quiet".
There is no surefire way to have a good group with PUGs, so the best strategy is tolerance and flexibility. And if you can't adapt, don't do PUGs.
I also find some of the advice here hilarious. "Join a guild". Sure, when guilds usually have entry requirements. Guilds are created by MMO players. When i see the comments here and (though it's most likely wrong) assume they represent the average MMO player, how do you suppose to join a guild unless you already don't need one anymore?
So we can create on ourselves. But how do we recruit people? Either we recruit blindly, or we set entry requirements. The former is tedious if you want like-minded people, the later kinda defeats the purpose as you do exactly what you don't like others doing.
The most effective way would be to recruit people you know of that they are like-minded, with whom you played before..with whom you did a dungeon as a PUG. So we are back to square one.
Obviously it's not always that black and white, but still..
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
The only reason I did AK was to break the monotony of WP, but even that got old.
I'll never forget one AK (though I have forgotten their names). I was still farming for ifrit's blade, let alone relic, and they were all three in Relic +1. I wasn't always losing hate, but I wasn't always holding it, and noone ever said a word. They knew I had no real chance to compete, and we just rolled with it. We joked randomly as we could while running. I asked then to just give me literally 5 seconds with the last boss so I could get a rotation in, they did.
But they weren't the norm. People in relic +1 thought relic were below them, relic thought ifrit/garuda were below them, and ifrit/garuda thought others were below them. FFXIV fostered a lot of negativity.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Got any terrific advice about improving player retention for the company?
I can't help that it's specific to one game but FFXIV is interesting in that NAs are a sizable market for the game but the devs unabashedly appeal to the Japanese players before anyone else. Japanese players are doing in pugs what takes NA server-best guilds which is so funny and so sad. We all know that once anyone has tried the content once, everyone trying the content must have tried it before or else serious guilds won't take them serious. It's like saying "You have to beat the Lich King in order to gain access to the Lich King" except that it's a player-created gate. Noone wants to take anyone who hasn't tried the fight, to try the fight.
This mentality extends, in many MMOs all the way down to any remotely hard dungeon boss. If the boss has a mechanic that can't be cheesed, noone has any patience for someone in their first time.
NAs seem to view wiping as an unforgivable sin for whichever player they can pin the cause to and it's disgusting.
The Japanese just regard it all differently and this guy really pounds that home.
I straddle the line between hardcore and casual. I will go play with the best players, help them earn the kill, and beat the boss to smithereens and then go back to my friends who are 2 or 3 tiers/patches/whatever behind and steamroll the content as well as I can.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
I remember one Paladin tank who did nothing, NOTHING, except Rage of Halone (not the combo, just RoH) and Flash. Most annoying sound ever, when spammed like that.
That said, I don't mind players who legitimately suck. As matter of fact, it's usually quicker just to drag the corpse of a bad player to the end boss than waste time bickering and arguing about kicking. What I hate is players who deliberately suck because they like the way a weapon/gearset looks, they think bikini runs are funny, or they're role-playing to match a character name, or any other aspect that causes them to deliberately gimp their output like thinking one spell looks cooler so they use it instead of the spell they should be using.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Actually that's a point, apart form raids, what do people do a in group these days that any old build can't handle? Everyone heals etc. I can remember going in as a full group to a contested region in DAOC and you were not sure the party would come back alive doing just simple quests.
Adjust the difficulty so that fewer people suck
I will agree that it seems like the blame game is worse than what it used to be. I tank and I've been blamed for wipes more in this past year than in previous years. Oh, and I'm more than willing to admit when it is my fault. I play in bed, so when I used to raid with my guild I would, literally, fall asleep sometimes. It was fun and a joke and people would yell in my ear and stuff. I've even fallen asleep in LFR content and survived. I honestly have no problem telling people I fell asleep, though. Most think it's pretty funny. In the end, I don't really sweat it. Oh what? You want to kick me out? But I'm a tank...... Sure dude. Ok, I guess I'll just re-queue and have to wait 3 minutes to find a new group. DAMN!!!
Honestly, if the group seems like a bunch of whiners and I'm in a PUG then I'll just leave. If I'm not in a PUG then I'll gquit
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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If your measure of your performance as a tank, and especially as a healer, has anything to do with DPS meters, you're doing it wrong. Even in games where tanks can contribute meaningful DPS, after staying alive/holding agro/avoiding what damage you can.
I loved FF14's scholar because I felt like it could contribute meaningful DPS and heal but if someone dies, even someone DPSing lower than my scholar, it's perhaps times to evaluate my performance (it's possible that they stood in red/bad/doom as well, and even likely).
But yes, healers catch the blame first and tanks after that, but if the dungeon was a smashing success, it's because of the leet DPS.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
but yeah bads are bads and nothing u can do can change that , because only 1 of every 100 takes advice as that....maybe is because lots had told him , u suck , L2p , noob and what not and is on defensive stance ...
a good/bad community can change how ppl behave no doubt
And yet I have kicked plenty of people from my parties... the last game I was in where I did it was skyforge...
Here are the offenses which will get me to try and vote/kick you...
1) Leeroy Jenkins syndrome - Running into mobs or pulling while the group is paused for any reason, with no warning.
2) Refusing to play your class - I.E. If you are a support in skyforge or a healer elsewhere and you have queued as such, you better be healing/shielding. If you are too busy trying to DPS to support your group, you should NOT be playing that class. That being said, you do it once I will explain that you are a critical part of our group and that we need you to contribute within your role... Do it a second time and people start getting upset. Do it a third time and we kick you.
3) Being rude/abusive/racist/etc...
4) Going stealth AFK or long-term AFK.
There may be some other conditions, but those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head.
Which is what creates the strife between hardcores and casuals. When it's Mr. Elitist's fifteenth, or hundred-and-fifteenth time through, he just wants it over and sometimes the variance on play creates a huge defecit in the person's capabilities vs potential.
It's especially irritating when you do get the random boss fight that can't be cheesed and the reason you're not winning is the special-snowflake.
But that's a problem mmo companies refuse to dirty their hands with, how to make oil and water play well together.
Ever played XIV? There was this one fight, at 2.0 release, called Demon wall that could, if not handled right, shove players off a ledge and too their doom.
Sometime around my 50th-100th time through, I get a bard that I just...know...has to be knew to the instance. He's doing weird things, but whatever. I don't say anything til Demon Wall because I don't want to scare anyone. I speak up, "Mr. Bard, you seem new here and if so, that's okay. Just speak up, and I'll try to explain.", "Nope, done this a dozen times" sooo we start the fight and first repel the bard gets knocked off. He pipes up "Never seen him do that before.". (That's THE thing he does). After wiping, the other two players leave group without a word, and to be honest, I followed.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Most people do not care nowadays. They want instant gratification without effort or time spent enjoying the game.
Sad, but true. Online communities are getting worse and we should not see that improve anytime soon.
It's why I no longer play MMOs. Single player RPGs ect for me. Much more fun without all the immaturity and elitist asshats.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
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"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."