Should they? Look at us in this forum community. We can't even come to an accepted consensus on simple definitions of what our games even are. What's a "sandbox"? Now tell a developer to go build one. Yeah, GL with that.
The EQN experiment failed as far as I can tell.
Also look at Blizzard. They have been doing just that. At the same time, they have been watching their subs go into decline. Is that decline due to the wrong changes or is it the other way around and their changes have slowed the decline that would have otherwise been worse. I think it's a little of both. But who knows.
ofc they do thats why every "huwähh" brings a patch till u can loot the boss by enterying the dungeon via browser with ur lvl xx tank that did cost 5 dollar
I've just got of the GW2 forums and all I've been reading about is nerfs because of complaints in PvP. I've also seen this type of thing in nearly every game I've played since SWG. So at least in PvP the nerf bat flies heavy and often and right into PvE. I don't PvP that much so sometimes I play in PvE and my character is rock solid other times I get on and it's like paper. Then I hop on another alt until the cycle comes around.
I wish they would balance PvP separate from PvE but that's twice the work for the same pay.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
@Superman0X , I was surprised to see you voted No. Why do you feel that MMO devs don't listen to players? To be clear, my interest isn't in swaying or countering your view but in understanding the reason behind it.
@l2avism Doesnt this depend on what specific game youre talking about?
I play Mortal Online and they have very tight contact with the player base. I descovered a way to missuse friend requests to see if any enemies was online. I sent a PM to the lead programmer and got a respons in 4 min saying it would be fixed in the next patch, and it was.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
...Most of the time it means why don't the devs make the game I want, which the devs should ignore and stick with their vision. ...
The problem is I and not the devs am the one who pays the bills. If I am ignored, bills go unpaid and the game closes down.
Hence why they do listen, yet that doesn't mean they act... as there are thousand of others with this same mentality, asking for something else. Does an amusement park cater to every change asked of them? Does any service that provides for a wide variety of taste and expectation?
Individual requests mean little to such a service, the only way they react is if there's a serious problem or exploit, that or a change would plug a leak in subscribers/players.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It entirely depends on what kind of communication, and when. Yes, at some points, developers may want feedback from the community, generally on specific design issues. No, developers aren't interested in unsolicited game ideas. Yes, companies evaluate the customer's spending to assess what works, what doesn't, and forms their own opinions based on this indirect feedback. No, companies aren't interested in subjective issues and complaints (anything that starts, I don't like...).
Generally speaking, companies don't want customers input on development before a game is released. That is why they pay their development staff. After release, companies become interested in specific types of feedback -- errors that normal testing couldn't detect, and revenue generated.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Yes they do, and that is why games have been going downhill. I dont want to play some muddle mess of 100k peoples ideas crammed into a game. I want to play a game made by a team that loves what they are making and is making what THEY want to make.
I wish devs would just not have things like forums and pols for their games. Fuck gamers, if we dont know what we want, and if we think we do it will change inside of a year or so, so why listen to us?
The greatest games I have ever played were made by a passionate team that had 0 input from the masses and thats how it should be.
*this opinion does not include bug reporting. Also editing a post seems to remove your poll choice, just a note to the MMORPG staff that this is an error.
I wish devs would just not have things like forums and pols for their games. Fuck gamers, if we dont know what we want, and if we think we do it will change inside of a year or so, so why listen to us?
That's kinda like cutting off the nose, to spite the face isn't it? We're also talking MMORPGs here for the most part. There's a right way to deal with feedback and a wrong way. You also have to understand the role of Dev and publisher, as in most cases it's the Publisher pushing major changes, which really isn't about feedback, it's about market trends.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Meh I think it depends on the real thing that changes devs minds, money. If they put in something that people complain about but it makes tons of money it's not going anywhere.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Devs know what works in the target audience of their product and the design of the product is based on this knowledge. Thus in a way the answer is yes. On the other hand, directly taking forum posts of players to heart is a recipe for desaster. Players are heavily biased, selfish and generally have no clue about game design or the business side of things. As a player, if you want your "voice" to be heard, vote with your wallet.
That's kinda like cutting off the nose, to spite the face isn't it? We're also talking MMORPGs here for the most part. There's a right way to deal with feedback and a wrong way. You also have to understand the role of Dev and publisher, as in most cases it's the Publisher pushing major changes, which really isn't about feedback, it's about market trends.
Might be true if it wasnt blatantly obvious that better games were produced before consumer input. I understand your point, but that is just utopian thinking, not reality.
Yes I know about publishers and their influence, I also know that that market data is gained via copies sold and concurrent subscribers maintained, not some yahoos spouting off on a forum.
Should they? Look at us in this forum community. We can't even come to an accepted consensus on simple definitions of what our games even are. What's a "sandbox"? Now tell a developer to go build one. Yeah, GL with that.
The EQN experiment failed as far as I can tell.
Also look at Blizzard. They have been doing just that. At the same time, they have been watching their subs go into decline. Is that decline due to the wrong changes or is it the other way around and their changes have slowed the decline that would have otherwise been worse. I think it's a little of both. But who knows.
This forum? Look at everything. People cannot agree on anything except in small groups and even in those groups there are different opinions. What happens after death. Which car is best. Put a bunch of highly trained experts in a room and they will agree on somethings and disagree on others. Take your pick everyone has a different opinion about everything. This forums pretty much mirrors the rest of the world.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Listening to players too much is a fast road to losing your job. The best devs usually listen to their players and decide if it's a good or bad idea, just doing what people ask for is insanely stupid.
The problem is that "the players" aren't a single voice, they all want different things. Plus what they want isn't what is best for the game itself.
F2P developers always listen to their players, it resonates at the very core of the business model. Whatever the players collective ask for they get, in the cash shop.
I think all game designers listen, but I also think most players don't even know what they want. Because what you think you want and what will actually keep you playing a game are often totally different. I also do think most game designers don't know that very well either though! Hence the variety of sucktastic MMORPGS we have now. I think a lot of individual devs, do but somewhere between management, and the publisher or other sources of useless knowledge the wrong choices are made. So players ask for something, the devs listen, suggest a plan to provide a decent solution, but end up being forced to design a hot steaming coil of feces instead.
It's been shown that developers should not be listening to the players in the forums for many of the reasons already mentioned.
The forum players represent 0.00012% of the players playing your game and they are not interested in making your game better for everyone just themselves. They are usually the craziest and loudest subset of humanity.
You can get some ideas from what forum post talk about and maybe there are some intriguing things that are said by players that inspire you but on the whole don't listen to that one nut ball in the forums who is TELLING YOU your game needs to being this or that. That guy has never made nor hosted nor probably even played a game well enough to be giving any advice.
i think it depends on the mmo dev but in most cases they most certainly want to deliver what their customers want. i just think that some people expect devs to listen to their specific wants and if they are not implemented then to them that means the devs don't listen.
ESO for example listened to their players and changed many different things based on their player feedback. but there is still many people complaining about certain features of the game they don't like.
Comments
Now tell a developer to go build one. Yeah, GL with that.
The EQN experiment failed as far as I can tell.
Also look at Blizzard. They have been doing just that. At the same time, they have been watching their subs go into decline. Is that decline due to the wrong changes or is it the other way around and their changes have slowed the decline that would have otherwise been worse. I think it's a little of both. But who knows.
I wish they would balance PvP separate from PvE but that's twice the work for the same pay.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I explained in my post. The question itself was misleading, because it said one thing, and meant another. Here is what I posted (above):
Devs almost always listen to players (which is what you asked).
Devs hardly ever do what players want (which is what you meant).
Devs have to make a game based on what players do, not what they say. These two hardly ever match.
I play Mortal Online and they have very tight contact with the player base. I descovered a way to missuse friend requests to see if any enemies was online. I sent a PM to the lead programmer and got a respons in 4 min saying it would be fixed in the next patch, and it was.
That is the crux of the attitude problem. You want custom coding. You know how much that costs in the real world? The industry doesn't need you.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
What about the existing players in a game who enjoy it? Imagine some demanding person gets changes made that ruin their experience.
Has anyone here experienced game changes that turned a game into something they didn't like? If so, you don't want what the OP wants!
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Individual requests mean little to such a service, the only way they react is if there's a serious problem or exploit, that or a change would plug a leak in subscribers/players.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It entirely depends on what kind of communication, and when. Yes, at some points, developers may want feedback from the community, generally on specific design issues. No, developers aren't interested in unsolicited game ideas. Yes, companies evaluate the customer's spending to assess what works, what doesn't, and forms their own opinions based on this indirect feedback. No, companies aren't interested in subjective issues and complaints (anything that starts, I don't like...).
Generally speaking, companies don't want customers input on development before a game is released. That is why they pay their development staff. After release, companies become interested in specific types of feedback -- errors that normal testing couldn't detect, and revenue generated.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I wish devs would just not have things like forums and pols for their games. Fuck gamers, if we dont know what we want, and if we think we do it will change inside of a year or so, so why listen to us?
The greatest games I have ever played were made by a passionate team that had 0 input from the masses and thats how it should be.
*this opinion does not include bug reporting. Also editing a post seems to remove your poll choice, just a note to the MMORPG staff that this is an error.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/On the other hand, directly taking forum posts of players to heart is a recipe for desaster. Players are heavily biased, selfish and generally have no clue about game design or the business side of things.
As a player, if you want your "voice" to be heard, vote with your wallet.
Yes I know about publishers and their influence, I also know that that market data is gained via copies sold and concurrent subscribers maintained, not some yahoos spouting off on a forum.
Always act on said feedback... Oh heck no. And that is a really good thing.
This have been a good conversation
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The problem is that "the players" aren't a single voice, they all want different things. Plus what they want isn't what is best for the game itself.
Obey every whim of the vocal minority of forum posters? No.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Because what you think you want and what will actually keep you playing a game are often totally different.
I also do think most game designers don't know that very well either though! Hence the variety of sucktastic MMORPGS we have now. I think a lot of individual devs, do but somewhere between management, and the publisher or other sources of useless knowledge the wrong choices are made. So players ask for something, the devs listen, suggest a plan to provide a decent solution, but end up being forced to design a hot steaming coil of feces instead.
It's been shown that developers should not be listening to the players in the forums for many of the reasons already mentioned.
The forum players represent 0.00012% of the players playing your game and they are not interested in making your game better for everyone just themselves. They are usually the craziest and loudest subset of humanity.
You can get some ideas from what forum post talk about and maybe there are some intriguing things that are said by players that inspire you but on the whole don't listen to that one nut ball in the forums who is TELLING YOU your game needs to being this or that. That guy has never made nor hosted nor probably even played a game well enough to be giving any advice.
http://baronsofthegalaxy.com/ An MMO game I created, solo. It's live now and absolutely free to play!
ESO for example listened to their players and changed many different things based on their player feedback. but there is still many people complaining about certain features of the game they don't like.
you cant please everyone.
totally agree.
Not to mention every player is different. Listening to one crowd might mean not listening to another.