Again, all of what you are saying is obvious and unnecessary to explain, and naturally CSE is very well aware of it. You seem to be building straw man based on misreading of my previous posts.
Speaking of faction locks, they are there primarily to encourage Realm pride, and nobody ever had illusions that they will eliminate spying.
Again, all of what you are saying is obvious and unnecessary to explain, and naturally CSE is very well aware of it. You seem to be building straw man based on misreading of my previous posts.
Speaking of faction locks, they are there primarily to encourage Realm pride, and nobody ever had illusions that they will eliminate spying.
It's not the classes... the skills... the chaos... the PvP and / or the best in X, Y or Z.
It's the players.
You and I can argue until hell freezes about how the scouts' stealth and backstab counters the fighters' charge and shield bash (or whatever you like) but it makes no difference at all if 99% of players play Chaos Doom Ravagers vs 1% playing Goodly Tree Guardians.
Even 60% / 40% will rapidly make the 40% feel like they are just target practice. ...
The classes are not balanced against each other on purpose. Each realm has it's classes build around that realms greater RvR strategy. Each class within each subset are different based on the strategic style of combat of each realm.
...
The main point to all of this is that the game is more about RvR strategy and diversity is required because balance reduces strategic choice and creates stalemates.
I think you missed my point.
Class balance doesn't matter if there is no realm balance. That is what will make or break the game.
How does CSE propose to balance the realm populations? How do they plan to do that 24 hours a day?
Some built in mechanics like your King of the realm (an npc as part of lore) may provide military support in various ways to the realm if beat back too much. Some other ideas are floating around on the backer forums but Mark hasn't confirmed much at this time because they are making the game itself. These things will be worked on closer to release (likely even post release once metrics are in) and include in game mechanics and possible server level options.
Wait and see at this point but the conversation has been talked over to death on the backer forums. Believe me you are not the only one with this concern as the strongest feature to many is the single server "realm pride" approach but it comes with all the old school single server problems. Mark is well aware of it.
It's not the classes... the skills... the chaos... the PvP and / or the best in X, Y or Z.
It's the players.
You and I can argue until hell freezes about how the scouts' stealth and backstab counters the fighters' charge and shield bash (or whatever you like) but it makes no difference at all if 99% of players play Chaos Doom Ravagers vs 1% playing Goodly Tree Guardians.
Even 60% / 40% will rapidly make the 40% feel like they are just target practice. ...
The classes are not balanced against each other on purpose. Each realm has it's classes build around that realms greater RvR strategy. Each class within each subset are different based on the strategic style of combat of each realm.
...
The main point to all of this is that the game is more about RvR strategy and diversity is required because balance reduces strategic choice and creates stalemates.
I think you missed my point.
Class balance doesn't matter if there is no realm balance. That is what will make or break the game.
How does CSE propose to balance the realm populations? How do they plan to do that 24 hours a day?
Some built in mechanics like your King of the realm (an npc as part of lore) may provide military support in various ways to the realm if beat back too much. Some other ideas are floating around on the backer forums but Mark hasn't confirmed much at this time because they are making the game itself. These things will be worked on closer to release (likely even post release once metrics are in) and include in game mechanics and possible server level options.
Wait and see at this point but the conversation has been talked over to death on the backer forums. Believe me you are not the only one with this concern as the strongest feature to many is the single server "realm pride" approach but it comes with all the old school single server problems. Mark is well aware of it.
Here's what we know about Realm balance (without breaking the NDA).
It's not the classes... the skills... the chaos... the PvP and / or the best in X, Y or Z.
It's the players.
You and I can argue until hell freezes about how the scouts' stealth and backstab counters the fighters' charge and shield bash (or whatever you like) but it makes no difference at all if 99% of players play Chaos Doom Ravagers vs 1% playing Goodly Tree Guardians.
Even 60% / 40% will rapidly make the 40% feel like they are just target practice. ...
The classes are not balanced against each other on purpose. Each realm has it's classes build around that realms greater RvR strategy. Each class within each subset are different based on the strategic style of combat of each realm.
...
The main point to all of this is that the game is more about RvR strategy and diversity is required because balance reduces strategic choice and creates stalemates.
I think you missed my point.
Class balance doesn't matter if there is no realm balance. That is what will make or break the game.
How does CSE propose to balance the realm populations? How do they plan to do that 24 hours a day?
Some built in mechanics like your King of the realm (an npc as part of lore) may provide military support in various ways to the realm if beat back too much. Some other ideas are floating around on the backer forums but Mark hasn't confirmed much at this time because they are making the game itself. These things will be worked on closer to release (likely even post release once metrics are in) and include in game mechanics and possible server level options.
Wait and see at this point but the conversation has been talked over to death on the backer forums. Believe me you are not the only one with this concern as the strongest feature to many is the single server "realm pride" approach but it comes with all the old school single server problems. Mark is well aware of it.
Here's what we know about Realm balance (without breaking the NDA).
Of course, there is no silver bullet.
I don't think there is a solution, the issue of population balance is one of the "weak points" of an RvR type game that is based on a persistent world (as opposed to short mini games where the team numbers are fixed and even).
Some of those ideas might help, and hopefully the devs have a few more tricks up their sleeve. Giving players something meaningful to do when there are like five players on one team and fifty on the other is always going to be a challenge.
Honestly, having played a few RvR games now and seen many of these problems I think this is something you need to consider and design into your game first. You can't really fix a lot of these things as an after thought. Sometimes you might need a mechanic to be there (or not be there) to address certain problems - but toward the end of the design it becomes harder and harder (or even impossible) to make big changes - like how travel works for example.
I like the idea of Shapeshifters but i have my own take on how it should work.I feel a Shapeshifter should be able to take on the form of other classes but would need to fully level those other classes first.As well he should not inherent all abilities but perhaps have to choose from 50% of them and they remain permanent ,no changing to others later on.
Scouts...Usually a class i never play because they are all done the same and imo boring as heck.I don't mind having to get behind a mob but not all the time ,everytime to gain my best damage.As well they usually need to take on some form of stealth,to me a scout is a tracker not a ninja.
Most important point to me is how much different is each class.Example in my Everquest days as well as other games,i found many classes were just copies of each other and even ones that were not ,their ideas were still very similar with just different wording.Example 50 poison dmg or 50 fire dmg to me is just the same thing,you need to design ways to really make each unique.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
You ONLY need balance in pvp which is why i can't stand pvp in a PVE game because it means you have to ruin pve to make pvp work unless of course you design two separate games,one for pvp and one for pve and separate the two in the game as well but unlikely that is going to happen.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
You ONLY need balance in pvp which is why i can't stand pvp in a PVE game because it means you have to ruin pve to make pvp work unless of course you design two separate games,one for pvp and one for pve and separate the two in the game as well but unlikely that is going to happen.
I get Camelot Unchained and Albion Online confused....I dont remember which one is the DAoC clone and which one isnt
You can't connect Dark Age of Camelot with Camelot Unchained?
I wouldn't call some of these even unofficial sequels but certainly influence from main game designers on teams helps connect old with new:
DAoC: Camelot Unchained designer Albion Online: Ultima Online inspired to a point (no idea if UO members on the team) Shroud of the Avatar: Ultima Online designer Crowfall: Shadowbane designer Pantheon: Everquest and Vanguard designer Project Gorgon: Asheron's Call designer The Repopulation: SWG inspired. At least 2 CoH clones in the works.
Comments
Speaking of faction locks, they are there primarily to encourage Realm pride, and nobody ever had illusions that they will eliminate spying.
didn't you post this?
And what I am saying might be 'obvious' but I dispute it is unnecessary to explain.
I raised population balance as an issue prior to the release of WAR. It was obvious there too.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
You stay sassy!
Of course, there is no silver bullet.
I don't think there is a solution, the issue of population balance is one of the "weak points" of an RvR type game that is based on a persistent world (as opposed to short mini games where the team numbers are fixed and even).
Some of those ideas might help, and hopefully the devs have a few more tricks up their sleeve. Giving players something meaningful to do when there are like five players on one team and fifty on the other is always going to be a challenge.
Sometimes you might need a mechanic to be there (or not be there) to address certain problems - but toward the end of the design it becomes harder and harder (or even impossible) to make big changes - like how travel works for example.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Scouts...Usually a class i never play because they are all done the same and imo boring as heck.I don't mind having to get behind a mob but not all the time ,everytime to gain my best damage.As well they usually need to take on some form of stealth,to me a scout is a tracker not a ninja.
Most important point to me is how much different is each class.Example in my Everquest days as well as other games,i found many classes were just copies of each other and even ones that were not ,their ideas were still very similar with just different wording.Example 50 poison dmg or 50 fire dmg to me is just the same thing,you need to design ways to really make each unique.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I wouldn't call some of these even unofficial sequels but certainly influence from main game designers on teams helps connect old with new:
DAoC: Camelot Unchained designer
Albion Online: Ultima Online inspired to a point (no idea if UO members on the team)
Shroud of the Avatar: Ultima Online designer
Crowfall: Shadowbane designer
Pantheon: Everquest and Vanguard designer
Project Gorgon: Asheron's Call designer
The Repopulation: SWG inspired.
At least 2 CoH clones in the works.
You stay sassy!