Problem is definitely not the OP or people like him. The current number of people playing MMOs is minuscule compared to other genres, and its probably the only genre that hasn't grown even close to proportionately with the internet and online gaming as a whole.
As much as a lot of people in here don't want to admit it, that is a sign that something has gone woefully wrong.
It is not like MMO'S lend themselves to mass consumption. They are generally time consuming, have a social stigma, PC centric with console growth, money intensive with subs or cash shops, general number of quality products is low and generally not well advertised to none MMO'ers. That is not a recipe for high growth.
Problem is definitely not the OP or people like him. The current number of people playing MMOs is minuscule compared to other genres, and its probably the only genre that hasn't grown even close to proportionately with the internet and online gaming as a whole.
As much as a lot of people in here don't want to admit it, that is a sign that something has gone woefully wrong.
It could also be a sign that the greater populace as a whole has no desire to play such games. Which would probably be even more apparent if games were A) more challenging B.) even more time consuming C) made for even smaller demographics (niches)..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Since the last time I've spent $ on a new game. January 11th, 2011 DCUO took my $ thx to a promo buying the game + 30 days free for $35. That game overall in the next few years took $115-130 from me. Then of course you have WOW latest expansion that took my $50 + 3 months of sub, but that's not a new game, so a lot of questions can be raised about the state of gaming.
How do you take $ from somebody who's been gaming since early 90s? End of 2001 got my PC so I got into my first MMO Ultima Online, played a lot of Star Craft, Half Life and many many more MMORPG's since, but this is truly interesting how in almost 5 years nothing has managed to open my wallet. This means that everything that's been in development for the last 6-7 years could not compete with what I've already been enjoying or anything else thats came out FREE.
So, I ask the community, has the state of gaming in general really degrated and devolved that they no longer can compete for my $? Do we lack the talent, the professionalism, the experience to deliver AAA games to compete with what's out there? We definetely have the technology, but are we also losing these developers to other, more lucrative contracts that maeby the government pays for them far more over the private sector?
I just dunno how a lot of people would get by if the majority of those interested in gaming were as veteran and experienced as I'm. I know for a fact the younger I was the easier I was to open my wallet, but that's not the case anymore. I know a lot of promising products coming in 2016, but my hopes are not too high. What's truly saddest though is to see our lives go by playing mediocre games...and then at the end seeing what the next generations will be enjoying, something that none could deliver decades ago...
You're missing out on some pretty great RPGs due to what I perceive as an over cynical outlook (and coming from someone as cynical as me, that's kind of funny). There are some great RPGs that have come out recently. The Witcher 3, Shadow of Mordor, Divinity: Original Sin, Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2, Dragon: Age of Inquisition (although, I didn't really think that game was as good as it could have been), and etc. Plus we got games like Cyberpunk 2077 that will be coming out in the next couple years. Hell, this is the best time to be an RPG player (especially if you're a PC gamer), so I'm not sure what you're talking about at all unless this discussion is solely for MMORPGs.
Before i had access to PC, before the "multiplayer era" with internet, lan etc...I finished most RPG's on consoles from NES, SNES, PSX and Dreamcast.
I'm not missing out on pretty great RPG's...I just prefer MMORPG's now over RPG's mainly because in MMORPG's I'm not going through a story, I make one myself and interact with PC's over NPC's. Also, these RPG's you list as the Witcher 3, all I see in them is just go do that, go fetch X quest then Y quest, so you can experience the "story", which I bet is as generic as it gets by how mainstream these games are.
The difficulty settings are another thing that basically allow me to cheat through the game faster so I can go through the story quicker. I already know I can complete it on highest difficulty, so it won't matter to me which difficulty I choose.
These modern "RPG's" also are way shorter than the classical ones. The music is also forgettable, the content is not there and the stories are not as unique as they used to. Go play FFVIII for example or Xenogears or Suikoden 1-2...or even earlier with Secret of Evermore, Illusion of Gaia, etc...then you won't even bother playing these RPG's even if you could for free.
I'm always grateful for any game that comes, despite what type it is. It's better than no games at all, I just don't see the future in these games when we've see far superior products delivered in the past.
Before i had access to PC, before the "multiplayer era" with internet, lan etc...I finished most RPG's on consoles from NES, SNES, PSX and Dreamcast.
I'm not missing out on pretty great RPG's...I just prefer MMORPG's now over RPG's mainly because in MMORPG's I'm not going through a story, I make one myself and interact with PC's over NPC's. Also, these RPG's you list as the Witcher 3, all I see in them is just go do that, go fetch X quest then Y quest, so you can experience the "story", which I bet is as generic as it gets by how mainstream these games are.
The difficulty settings are another thing that basically allow me to cheat through the game faster so I can go through the story quicker. I already know I can complete it on highest difficulty, so it won't matter to me which difficulty I choose.
These modern "RPG's" also are way shorter than the classical ones. The music is also forgettable, the content is not there and the stories are not as unique as they used to. Go play FFVIII for example or Xenogears or Suikoden 1-2...or even earlier with Secret of Evermore, Illusion of Gaia, etc...then you won't even bother playing these RPG's even if you could for free.
I'm always grateful for any game that comes, despite what type it is. It's better than no games at all, I just don't see the future in these games when we've see far superior products delivered in the past.
Please feel free to tell me about the stories that you create yourself and in which games you create these stories. I'm, actually, very intrigued to hear what you're playing that allows for this. Reason being, apart from SWTOR, the stories in MMORPGs are horrible. They are littered with meaningless fluff and filler which detract from the story at hand. They are artifically inflated with bloated content intended to keep you in the game. Single Player RPGs have very little, or no, need to keep you playing, so you get 40 hours of game play. I know that's not really what you're looking for, since you only play free games, but a 40-hour game isn't a bad thing. Shoot, The Witcher 3 I think you'd be lucky to get it done in 80 hours. What's clear here, though, is you're certainly not interested in a story, so I'm not sure what your motivation is for playing games, but if you aren't playing for a story, then I suppose someone could drop you in a box with endlessly-spawning mobs and as long as it was free you'd probably be happy.
I'm not missing out on pretty great RPG's...I just prefer MMORPG's now over RPG's mainly because in MMORPG's I'm not going through a story, I make one myself and interact with PC's over NPC's.
You can do that in what games?
Loot & guild drama does not count. Heck, how are you going to "make a story" when the gameplay is click a button, then run a dungeon with strangers who don't want to talk to you?
It's cause games used be be good and those who play today don't know any better.
Ohhhhhhhhh, I totally stepped right into that "games used to be good" thread without even knowing it. That must have been due to my lack of starbucks today. I had to run home this morning because I forgot my fedora, scarf and glasses at home, so didn't get to SB in time. I totally agree, too, games used to be way better. Like what about SWG, huh?!? Blows...... Everything..... Else..... Away!!!
I'm not missing out on pretty great RPG's...I just prefer MMORPG's now over RPG's mainly because in MMORPG's I'm not going through a story, I make one myself and interact with PC's over NPC's.
You can do that in what games?
Loot & guild drama does not count. Heck, how are you going to "make a story" when the gameplay is click a button, then run a dungeon with strangers who don't want to talk to you?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm not missing out on pretty great RPG's...I just prefer MMORPG's now over RPG's mainly because in MMORPG's I'm not going through a story, I make one myself and interact with PC's over NPC's.
You can do that in what games?
Loot & guild drama does not count. Heck, how are you going to "make a story" when the gameplay is click a button, then run a dungeon with strangers who don't want to talk to you?
You can definitely live your own story in EVE.
What stories ... running a ship, fighting stuff, and mining stuff is not stories. There is no context, no lore connected to your person, no one is talking to you as if you are some space pirates all day ....
Having some guild drama or fight some other guilds does not count.
Otherwise, you can say LoL has "personal stories" too.
That is possible, but as I've said it seems pretty obvious when something is being made out of data that is collected vs something that is not.
how would you know the devs don't pour their "souls" into the data analysis?
Perhaps, but it is for all the wrong reason's (to make more money). It has nothing to do with making a game they believe in or like. They are simply trying to find the magic mathematical formula to get rich. You see many artists in history that had an uncompromising passion and died poor. I guess money is greater then not compromising ones vision these days.
I would pour over the data because it tells me what people are doing the most which would help me made something people really like and want to do. I'm sure many other people (read that as devs) are no different.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Perhaps, but it is for all the wrong reason's (to make more money). It has nothing to do with making a game they believe in or like. They are simply trying to find the magic mathematical formula to get rich. You see many artists in history that had an uncompromising passion and died poor. I guess money is greater then not compromising ones vision these days.
way to pass judgment. Is there a "wrong" reason to do a job? Making more money .. isn't that how capitalism works.
HBO does not renew GoT again and again because they love fantasy. They do it because it sells subs. I still don't understand why you care why .. if the entertainment is good.
If such a mathematical formula exist, it probably includes a measure of fun. If someone measures my fun, and produces a game that give me fun in exchange for money, what is the problem?
Perhaps, but it is for all the wrong reason's (to make more money). It has nothing to do with making a game they believe in or like. They are simply trying to find the magic mathematical formula to get rich. You see many artists in history that had an uncompromising passion and died poor. I guess money is greater then not compromising ones vision these days.
way to pass judgment. Is there a "wrong" reason to do a job? Making more money .. isn't that how capitalism works.
HBO does not renew GoT again and again because they love fantasy. They do it because it sells subs. I still don't understand why you care why .. if the entertainment is good.
If such a mathematical formula exist, it probably includes a measure of fun. If someone measures my fun, and produces a game that give me fun in exchange for money, what is the problem?
Yes it does matter to me.
For instance I enjoy fast food, but I won't eat it because it's unhealthy and has addictive potential harmful chemicals added to it. I'd rather buy something fresh and make it myself.
This is the way I feel about games made using data. They are made based on manipulation. It has nothing to do with a person having a job or not. It has to do with me not liking a product that is fairly obviously produced to attract people in an unnatural way.
The biggest irony of my exceptional gaming experience is how I came back to my first MMORPG after 14 years...and enjoying it more than anything else while also not spending a dime.
That is possible, but as I've said it seems pretty obvious when something is being made out of data that is collected vs something that is not.
how would you know the devs don't pour their "souls" into the data analysis?
Perhaps, but it is for all the wrong reason's (to make more money). It has nothing to do with making a game they believe in or like. They are simply trying to find the magic mathematical formula to get rich. You see many artists in history that had an uncompromising passion and died poor. I guess money is greater then not compromising ones vision these days.
Every single time I read this, it makes me laugh. What would you do if you'd been given the choice of a poor miserable life with eventual (not even sure to happen) "post mortem" recognition and a life where you are rich and can take care of your family for several generations ? And don't be an hypocrite, please.
I guess I made my choice on that to an extent a long time ago, but if everyone is selling out then there is little reason to play games. One of the great things about video games and the internet was that it wasn't selling out to anyone. It was all a small niche group of people for a long time.
This is the way I feel about games made using data. They are made based on manipulation. It has nothing to do with a person having a job or not. It has to do with me not liking a product that is fairly obviously produced to attract people in an unnatural way.
"unnatural"? So if i reason out how to attract people to a product, it is natural? If I use data, it is not? What about observations that i have? Is that data too?
By your definition, only a baby (with no data whatsoever) would be the only devs who can make games "naturally".
I suppose you can feel whatever you are feeling games, and that is your prerogative.
And I also argue that your "perception" is not always correct .. but again, no one says you cannot act on incorrect perceptions.
So the main point is that ... i suppose you have to right to ignore fun games that because you feel that some are made in "unnatural" ways.
Personally, i think that is silly, and I won't gimp myself from being entertained. But again, that is just me.
Comments
As much as a lot of people in here don't want to admit it, that is a sign that something has gone woefully wrong.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Smile
Before i had access to PC, before the "multiplayer era" with internet, lan etc...I finished most RPG's on consoles from NES, SNES, PSX and Dreamcast.
I'm not missing out on pretty great RPG's...I just prefer MMORPG's now over RPG's mainly because in MMORPG's I'm not going through a story, I make one myself and interact with PC's over NPC's. Also, these RPG's you list as the Witcher 3, all I see in them is just go do that, go fetch X quest then Y quest, so you can experience the "story", which I bet is as generic as it gets by how mainstream these games are.
The difficulty settings are another thing that basically allow me to cheat through the game faster so I can go through the story quicker. I already know I can complete it on highest difficulty, so it won't matter to me which difficulty I choose.
These modern "RPG's" also are way shorter than the classical ones. The music is also forgettable, the content is not there and the stories are not as unique as they used to. Go play FFVIII for example or Xenogears or Suikoden 1-2...or even earlier with Secret of Evermore, Illusion of Gaia, etc...then you won't even bother playing these RPG's even if you could for free.
I'm always grateful for any game that comes, despite what type it is. It's better than no games at all, I just don't see the future in these games when we've see far superior products delivered in the past.
Please feel free to tell me about the stories that you create yourself and in which games you create these stories. I'm, actually, very intrigued to hear what you're playing that allows for this. Reason being, apart from SWTOR, the stories in MMORPGs are horrible. They are littered with meaningless fluff and filler which detract from the story at hand. They are artifically inflated with bloated content intended to keep you in the game. Single Player RPGs have very little, or no, need to keep you playing, so you get 40 hours of game play. I know that's not really what you're looking for, since you only play free games, but a 40-hour game isn't a bad thing. Shoot, The Witcher 3 I think you'd be lucky to get it done in 80 hours. What's clear here, though, is you're certainly not interested in a story, so I'm not sure what your motivation is for playing games, but if you aren't playing for a story, then I suppose someone could drop you in a box with endlessly-spawning mobs and as long as it was free you'd probably be happy.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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You can do that in what games?
Loot & guild drama does not count. Heck, how are you going to "make a story" when the gameplay is click a button, then run a dungeon with strangers who don't want to talk to you?
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Ohhhhhhhhh, I totally stepped right into that "games used to be good" thread without even knowing it. That must have been due to my lack of starbucks today. I had to run home this morning because I forgot my fedora, scarf and glasses at home, so didn't get to SB in time. I totally agree, too, games used to be way better. Like what about SWG, huh?!? Blows...... Everything..... Else..... Away!!!
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
For me ... games today are much much better than games in the EQ/UO times.
What stories ... running a ship, fighting stuff, and mining stuff is not stories. There is no context, no lore connected to your person, no one is talking to you as if you are some space pirates all day ....
Having some guild drama or fight some other guilds does not count.
Otherwise, you can say LoL has "personal stories" too.
HBO does not renew GoT again and again because they love fantasy. They do it because it sells subs. I still don't understand why you care why .. if the entertainment is good.
If such a mathematical formula exist, it probably includes a measure of fun. If someone measures my fun, and produces a game that give me fun in exchange for money, what is the problem?
For instance I enjoy fast food, but I won't eat it because it's unhealthy and has addictive potential harmful chemicals added to it. I'd rather buy something fresh and make it myself.
This is the way I feel about games made using data. They are made based on manipulation. It has nothing to do with a person having a job or not. It has to do with me not liking a product that is fairly obviously produced to attract people in an unnatural way.
By your definition, only a baby (with no data whatsoever) would be the only devs who can make games "naturally".
I suppose you can feel whatever you are feeling games, and that is your prerogative.
And I also argue that your "perception" is not always correct .. but again, no one says you cannot act on incorrect perceptions.
So the main point is that ... i suppose you have to right to ignore fun games that because you feel that some are made in "unnatural" ways.
Personally, i think that is silly, and I won't gimp myself from being entertained. But again, that is just me.