You can even make a spear tank sensible actually..
The polearm isn't a very offensive weapon but can work well defensively and could keep the enemy at a inconvient distance (for the enemy), such that their blows hit with less force (tanks taking less damage, though armor/defense stat normally covers that) and are "easier to dodge" (read: tanks having higher evasion).
Some kind of sweeping attack that hits all enemies around the tank (melee range), causing agro.
I'd like that.
Not sure I agree with polearms, spears particularly, not being offensive weapons. In fact if you are fighting with a sword and shield and encounter someone with a spear, or other polearm, your best option is to go on the defensive and look for opportunities to cut the shaft of the polearm (not that easy to do and you are probably going to have to hit the shaft at the same spot two or three times).
Yeah, I meant (but didn't say, my fault) that they're poorly offensive in close-quarters combat where the opponent is targeting you (thus one-on-one or tanking) because a sword/shield can operate effectively at close range.
For a DPS though, they'd work well.
I would just definitely like a Polearm tank. Practically every game goes sword/shield, axes, or great axe. At least one of those will have access to holy magic. Gets lame.
Of course, these are games so it doesn't have to make logical sense in the slightest. More spears/polearms could be fun.
Especially if the class who is a pitchfork-wielding farmer by day, vigilante by night! (someone else handle the details of that! before DC scoops us!)
Nope, a skilled fighter with a partisan or similar would defeat a swordsman 9 times out of 10 in close quarters combat. It is only when things get so cramped that a dagger is preferable that a spearman is at a disadvantage.
But yes it is a game and what people like is more important than what would be accurate.
Formations, reach and mounted combat, stuff which would make spear combat interesting, are way too complicated for your average MMORPG player used to the tank 'n' spank combat virtually every MMORPG implements.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I don't know that any mmo could fairly handle mounted combat, like say jousting without it feeling like a laggy mess of the server failing to accurately predict collisions.
Games have done it, but it's clunky.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
I don't know that any mmo could fairly handle mounted combat, like say jousting without it feeling like a laggy mess of the server failing to accurately predict collisions.
Games have done it, but it's clunky.
Correction: Games have done it, and well at times, but they're not MMOs.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I'm not sure about European culture, but I have seen spears in a lot of martial arts movies. Movies are generally not a good place to draw from, but the people in the movies were real martial arts experts who trained for theatre. It was probably one of the first martial arts movies of it's kind. It was kind of like Jackie Chan with Peking Opera, but before him.
I have to think that swords appeal to the largest audience of people. In reality they aren't always as effective as other weapons. I often wish dual wielding had never happened. I believe one handed, sword and shield, or two handed was much more effective and used. Blunt weapons are good at destroying almost anything. A light staff/spear has good reach and can stab quickly. I'd imagine it has a lot of advantages. You usually see dual wielding in martial arts with very small weapons or a sword and dagger in European culture. Two swords would be a bit difficult to move quickly and coordinate. Two blunt weapons or spears would be extremely difficult unless they were very light like police batons IMO.
In summation I just don't think spears has the sex appeal of swords in particular and it appears MMOs have all but given up on trying to be realistic in any way with depiction of combat. There used to be a lot of modifiers at least where one type of weapon would be more effective then another or one would have more reach.
I figured it was just due to the cool factor. I like spears in general. But often their weak or non-existent. Even a staff is a good match for a sword.
There's nothing elegant or romantic about a spear. They're utilitarian.
I don't know how historically accurate the spear from The Centurion was, but it gave me a Do Want tingle. Well,I think Olga helped there, but that's a topic for another forum.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
The idea hat certain weapons are restricted by class is and has always been nonsense. This is a "Role Playing Game" And if your role in the group is "The Fighter" you're the one who Fights with several different weapons depending on what you are fighting., If you are the Mage then you are there because you're the magic expert, mages are NOT FIGHTERS. Mages should have combat oriented spells but they are to attack vulnerabilities or deal with situations that fighting and rogues cannot. Rogues are skill masters because not everything is fighting.
The problem with current RPGs is that EVERYONE IS A FIGHTER and its not the way it should be. The adventures we had playing pen and paper RPGs where all these games came from had maybe 20% fighting and a lot of creative use of everyone's skillsets instead. It made for much more entertaining "story" when playing. Nowadays its just 10 classes for 12 different ways to attack or heal.
RPGs should incorporate Non combat skills into their games. Make a "Game" out of hunting, tracking, perceptions skills, Lore skills, negotiation, Leadership, Animal Training etc. just like you made a "Game" out of combat skills and those characters should level up just as fast as everyone else.
Spears were way more common than swords. They can be produced much faster and cheaper.
if you lived in the stone age.
LOL, spears were cheaper and faster to make than swords from the bronze age to modern times, they still are cheaper and faster to make.
Also most swords that were taken to medieval battlefields were taken as secondary weapons. They usually remained unused throughout the battle. While spears, polearms and bows were actively used.
Finally most spears were used by people on foot as individual weapons. In many periods those spearmen carried a sheathed sword to use if their main weapon (the spear) became damaged.
I think the animations also play a critical roll in why people choose weapons. Often times Swords, Axes, and Maces are thought out better. So they have better looking animations. The spear is usually not thought out well. Its mostly Asian games that do good spear animations. After all, they usually have that one guy with a flexing spear doing 1 on 1 combat in martial arts entertainment. Spears are also not that difficult to animate. The only difficulty is the spread between where you grasp the weapon is wider, but this is entirely controllable with little effort. If there is a programmer or animator working for a game company that cannot do this, they should be expecting a pink slip.
Formations, reach and mounted combat, stuff which would make spear combat interesting, are way too complicated for your average MMORPG player used to the tank 'n' spank combat virtually every MMORPG implements.
That is a whole different point! A good one though.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I figured it was just due to the cool factor. I like spears in general. But often their weak or non-existent. Even a staff is a good match for a sword.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
A spear is an example of a primary weapon whereas most swords are actually considered sidearms. The primaries are a pain to tote and are usually not legal for bringing into towns and such, so maybe they opted for something that made sense in towns and taverns. I also blame D&D which poorly represents both spears and shields.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Spears were supposedly one of the more common weapons but most MMORPG have no spears or spear fighters. Are swords just sexier?
In my MMO experience, only Lineage II makes actual use of spears as AoE weapon with 1 class fully specialized and all warriors make good use of it. Most other MMOs that have spears it's 'yet an other weapon'
Istaria has entire class named "Spearman". Lord of the Rings Online has Warden and Warden is real tank: using spear he can attack in melee or ranged, make combos and eventually take out any instance/enemy no matter how strong it is.
That's one point.
Next point is simple: mmos are not historically accurate. They are not technically accurate (like - you are on 1% health, wearing heavy combat suit, carrying 20 heavy weapons, some 200 potions of health and mana, then some clothing, crafting materials, lots of gold...and still can run all the time without geting tired) as well.
There's nothing elegant or romantic about a spear. They're utilitarian.
Yep. There are a lot of books about magical swords, legends too. This is true for bows too. BUT SPEARS?? The only one I can think of is the "Spear of Destiny", aka the "Holy Spear" aka the "Spear of Longinus". This one had some mileage but as an artifact and not as a weapon.
Well, you probably haven't heard of these following but there are actually quite a few Spears in mythology. Gugnir in Norse myth, the spear used by Odin. Gae Bolg (I think idk how it's spelled but close enough) in Celtic myth used by the golden child of the Irish Chu something. It's hard to spell his last name. Spears, Halberds, etc. Have a great usefullness at close and medium range and that is shown in many facets. It just depends on the skill level or the way they're used
There's nothing elegant or romantic about a spear. They're utilitarian.
Yep. There are a lot of books about magical swords, legends too. This is true for bows too. BUT SPEARS?? The only one I can think of is the "Spear of Destiny", aka the "Holy Spear" aka the "Spear of Longinus". This one had some mileage but as an artifact and not as a weapon.
Well, you probably haven't heard of these following but there are actually quite a few Spears in mythology. Gugnir in Norse myth, the spear used by Odin. Gae Bolg (I think idk how it's spelled but close enough) in Celtic myth used by the golden child of the Irish Chu something. It's hard to spell his last name. Spears, Halberds, etc. Have a great usefullness at close and medium range and that is shown in many facets. It just depends on the skill level or the way they're used
Gáe Buidhe and Gáe Dearg were twin spears. The Yellow Spear (Buidhe) inflicted wounds that could never heal. The Red Spear (Dearg) could destroy magic on touch. There were D&D artifacts based on them in one of my old 2nd edition books.
Tonbogiri was a spear so supernaturally sharp that a fly landing on the blade would be cut in half.
Ascalon was the spear of St. George that was blessed to slay dragons.
As for why spears aren't more popular in MMOs, I don't know. Polearms like Halberds aren't that uncommon, but the humble spear does tend to get the shaft. I'll see myself out.
Comments
But yes it is a game and what people like is more important than what would be accurate.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Games have done it, but it's clunky.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I have to think that swords appeal to the largest audience of people. In reality they aren't always as effective as other weapons. I often wish dual wielding had never happened. I believe one handed, sword and shield, or two handed was much more effective and used. Blunt weapons are good at destroying almost anything. A light staff/spear has good reach and can stab quickly. I'd imagine it has a lot of advantages. You usually see dual wielding in martial arts with very small weapons or a sword and dagger in European culture. Two swords would be a bit difficult to move quickly and coordinate. Two blunt weapons or spears would be extremely difficult unless they were very light like police batons IMO.
In summation I just don't think spears has the sex appeal of swords in particular and it appears MMOs have all but given up on trying to be realistic in any way with depiction of combat. There used to be a lot of modifiers at least where one type of weapon would be more effective then another or one would have more reach.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
The idea hat certain weapons are restricted by class is and has always been nonsense. This is a "Role Playing Game" And if your role in the group is "The Fighter" you're the one who Fights with several different weapons depending on what you are fighting., If you are the Mage then you are there because you're the magic expert, mages are NOT FIGHTERS. Mages should have combat oriented spells but they are to attack vulnerabilities or deal with situations that fighting and rogues cannot. Rogues are skill masters because not everything is fighting.
The problem with current RPGs is that EVERYONE IS A FIGHTER and its not the way it should be. The adventures we had playing pen and paper RPGs where all these games came from had maybe 20% fighting and a lot of creative use of everyone's skillsets instead. It made for much more entertaining "story" when playing. Nowadays its just 10 classes for 12 different ways to attack or heal.
RPGs should incorporate Non combat skills into their games. Make a "Game" out of hunting, tracking, perceptions skills, Lore skills, negotiation, Leadership, Animal Training etc. just like you made a "Game" out of combat skills and those characters should level up just as fast as everyone else.
http://baronsofthegalaxy.com/ An MMO game I created, solo. It's live now and absolutely free to play!
if you lived in the stone age.
Also most swords that were taken to medieval battlefields were taken as secondary weapons. They usually remained unused throughout the battle. While spears, polearms and bows were actively used.
Finally most spears were used by people on foot as individual weapons. In many periods those spearmen carried a sheathed sword to use if their main weapon (the spear) became damaged.
plz be joking? plz?
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Spears are also not that difficult to animate. The only difficulty is the spread between where you grasp the weapon is wider, but this is entirely controllable with little effort. If there is a programmer or animator working for a game company that cannot do this, they should be expecting a pink slip.
That is a whole different point! A good one though.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Seaspite
Playing ESO on my X-Box
Lord of the Rings Online has Warden and Warden is real tank: using spear he can attack in melee or ranged, make combos and eventually take out any instance/enemy no matter how strong it is.
That's one point.
Next point is simple: mmos are not historically accurate. They are not technically accurate (like - you are on 1% health, wearing heavy combat suit, carrying 20 heavy weapons, some 200 potions of health and mana, then some clothing, crafting materials, lots of gold...and still can run all the time without geting tired) as well.
http://www.mmoblogg.wordpress.com