Kickstarter doesn't have any responsibility. They merely provide the means by which to donate. If you can't risk the money, don't donate. It's as simple as that. I fund kickstarters that I hope to succeed. If one goes belly up, I am fully prepared. I don't donate anything I can't afford.
Well that is why we have laws,to make sure people don't try and cheat/steal from others. If some charity was found stealing all the money,the law would step in.It is called misrepresentation.
I can use an example that was happening right in front of my eyes for years.Some people would make up large jars and put a picture of some missing child in them to get people to donate to the cause.Now you could say well don't donate unless you need the money but the law stepped in and people were jailed.
What still bothers me to this day is when i see developers somehow getting around the law running operations that claim "Donations".We all know that is total rubbish,they are not donations,the game is SELLING you items,you are buying those items and the developer is using that money as profits.
Also imo Kickstarter should not be Scott free from the law,they are running a PROFIT making business and should be 100% under full scrutiny of the law.It is like these illegal movie operations,they claim they are only a file storage operation but they know full well what is going on and the law DOES intervene often.Pirate Bay was the most notable offender who ended up in prison and is likely still there.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Why is this surprising to anyone is still something I don't get
it's a donation without any guarantees, just blind hope.
people don't understand donations?
I still donate to kickstart projects, but I am 100% aware that it's just me giving money away, zero guarantee that it will result in anything.
I do my best to research and donaste to reputable developers but again it's still just blind hope.
Because most people aren't business men. They see a number like 3.4 million and literally believe there is a guy in a room with 3.4 million dollars in cash stuffing it into suitcases with the Learjet waiting. Or wiring it off to the hidden account in the Caymans.
There is a smaller percentage of people that understand more than what they have learned while living with their parents or in a flat full of their friends working a dopy job or non real world philosophy's they picked up in college by sheltered professors..
That group doesn't have a problem with Kickstarter and understands the pros and cons of any business proposition.
Aside from pure fraud anyone that takes the money from a kickstarter and uses it to attempt the project and fails due to a cash shortage is obligated to none of the backers, ever. They can just run out of money and walk away. Their only obligations are to their creditors, and guess what Kickstarter'es, you are not one of them, your an investor with no guarantees. Go talk to an attorney and you'll have a better understanding of how impossibly weak your position is.
Only thing I pledge for on Kickstarter is a steampunk singer/songwriter who has already released 5 albums (I pledges for the last 2 and also one clip) that I really like. I'm not falling into those 'too good to be true' hypes, because they ARE too good to be true...
Kickstarter doesn't have any responsibility. They merely provide the means by which to donate. If you can't risk the money, don't donate. It's as simple as that. I fund kickstarters that I hope to succeed. If one goes belly up, I am fully prepared. I don't donate anything I can't afford.
Well that is why we have laws,to make sure people don't try and cheat/steal from others. If some charity was found stealing all the money,the law would step in.It is called misrepresentation.
I can use an example that was happening right in front of my eyes for years.Some people would make up large jars and put a picture of some missing child in them to get people to donate to the cause.Now you could say well don't donate unless you need the money but the law stepped in and people were jailed.
What still bothers me to this day is when i see developers somehow getting around the law running operations that claim "Donations".We all know that is total rubbish,they are not donations,the game is SELLING you items,you are buying those items and the developer is using that money as profits.
Also imo Kickstarter should not be Scott free from the law,they are running a PROFIT making business and should be 100% under full scrutiny of the law.It is like these illegal movie operations,they claim they are only a file storage operation but they know full well what is going on and the law DOES intervene often.Pirate Bay was the most notable offender who ended up in prison and is likely still there.
You do realize that once a government regulates something like crowdfunding it no longer is crowdfunding (it becomes commerce and gets bogged down in all the complexities of regulated commerce) . Otherwise, there is nothing legally to enforce in a patronage (aka 'sugar daddy') system.
And once you regulate something like Kickstarter it then turns into just another store or investment source involving equity.
It's a double-edged sword...patronage/crowdfunding gives the one being sponsored practically 100% freedom and flexibility. That's the major strength. The major downfall is the sponsor can get totally burned with no options. You simple can't have the unparalleled flexibility and freedom as the backbone of the system without the obvious risks.
Bottom line, do your homework. Make sure the people working the project have a decent history of doing such things. If in doubt, just wait and see, if you really want to give them your money wait until the project comes out, does what it's suppose to, and then just buy it to support them. Never get lost in the hype of slick videos.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
You know I also heard about some moron selling pictures of space ships to a bunch of sucker gamers who expected some actual game to be made like over a year ago, yet the game still isn't out. Who would pay 250$ or more for a picture of a space ship in a game that doesn't exist? Some people are just beyond stupid.
No one said every kickstarted project will succeed. People who give money know that its a risk. They are willing to take that risk for something that interests them. Nothing wrong with that. I have never given any kickstarter money, but I see nothing wrong with people doing it if they want to.
These things were happening thousands of years ago, and will keep on happening. What's your point?
They had crowd funded kickstarter projects in Ancient Rome? That's some funny stuff.
Kickstarter/crowdfunding are just modern forms of patronage. And, yes, Ancient Rome embraced patronage.
lol. I just had to laugh at the constant ignorance of history on this forum.
Failed KS campaigns have and will more and more be fed to the courts at various levels. People have already been slapped with heavy fines. KS themselves hold no responsibility but the project certainly does.
These things were happening thousands of years ago, and will keep on happening. What's your point?
They had crowd funded kickstarter projects in Ancient Rome? That's some funny stuff.
Kickstarter/crowdfunding are just modern forms of patronage. And, yes, Ancient Rome embraced patronage.
lol. I just had to laugh at the constant ignorance of history on this forum.
Failed KS campaigns have and will more and more be fed to the courts at various levels. People have already been slapped with heavy fines. KS themselves hold no responsibility but the project certainly does.
That simply isn't true. The only federal case investigated by the FTC resulted in no admission of guilt nor a single penny being repaid (since the money was long gone). And the only state case was in Washington where a very specific state commerce law was violated.
The other 99.999999% of failed Kickstarters have been held to zero responsibility. And that's because, legally, there is none in a patronage-based system.
Kickstarter doesn't have any responsibility. They merely provide the means by which to donate. If you can't risk the money, don't donate. It's as simple as that. I fund kickstarters that I hope to succeed. If one goes belly up, I am fully prepared. I don't donate anything I can't afford.
Its nothing but a win win for Kickstarter, they profited more than 200k from the project. Might be some negative publicity from things like this but it's going to be a long while before this Gravy Train comes to the station.
Why is this surprising to anyone is still something I don't get
it's a donation without any guarantees, just blind hope.
people don't understand donations?
I still donate to kickstart projects, but I am 100% aware that it's just me giving money away, zero guarantee that it will result in anything.
I do my best to research and donaste to reputable developers but again it's still just blind hope.
Yeah, you are right (and you are one of the most sensible on this forum). I do however think that backers are entitled to know where the money spent in a failed project went and from what I saw in the article they seems rather silent about that.
But yes, it is donations and not a pre-order. Never spend money you can't afford to just loose and if you get a product out of it then it is great. And as you said, researching the people behind something will tell you the odds (yeah, some of the people here thinks like Han Solo and don't want to hear the odds). Occulus Rift for example had a known and competent boss, which made it worth investing. These guys seems more fishy.
With MMOs (that still are in alpha or earlier, and I wont discuss SC here) I give Shards and Camelot U the highest chance of releasing. Crowfall and Pantheon is more risky but still have devs that are experienced and made good stuff in the past (in Pantheons case I am somewhat worried about Brads handling of money, he is a great game designer though).
Those 4 games are games I think is worth an investment (and I might have forgotten someone) but there are and have been plenty of suspicious games by unknown devs like Stargate worlds (which also proves that a famous IP is no guarantee of anything).
Kickstarters is a great way to support games different from the usual stuff but assume you will lose the money and anythings that comes out besides dreams is a bonus. If you can't loose the money then pre-order something from a large publisher instead, there you will either get a game or your money back.
"Patronage is the support, encouragement, privilege, or financial aid that an organization or individual bestows to another."
You are welcome.
Sounds an aweful lot like KS/Indiegogo
It has nothing to do with crowdfunding. Why are you two so determined to ignore facts?
Patronage has nothing to do with crowdfunding. It is an agreement between two people of different social status (monetary, religious or governmental) and it has nothing to do with a crowd, nor is the agreement always financial.
Comments
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
If some charity was found stealing all the money,the law would step in.It is called misrepresentation.
I can use an example that was happening right in front of my eyes for years.Some people would make up large jars and put a picture of some missing child in them to get people to donate to the cause.Now you could say well don't donate unless you need the money but the law stepped in and people were jailed.
What still bothers me to this day is when i see developers somehow getting around the law running operations that claim "Donations".We all know that is total rubbish,they are not donations,the game is SELLING you items,you are buying those items and the developer is using that money as profits.
Also imo Kickstarter should not be Scott free from the law,they are running a PROFIT making business and should be 100% under full scrutiny of the law.It is like these illegal movie operations,they claim they are only a file storage operation but they know full well what is going on and the law DOES intervene often.Pirate Bay was the most notable offender who ended up in prison and is likely still there.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Because most people aren't business men. They see a number like 3.4 million and literally believe there is a guy in a room with 3.4 million dollars in cash stuffing it into suitcases with the Learjet waiting. Or wiring it off to the hidden account in the Caymans.
There is a smaller percentage of people that understand more than what they have learned while living with their parents or in a flat full of their friends working a dopy job or non real world philosophy's they picked up in college by sheltered professors..
That group doesn't have a problem with Kickstarter and understands the pros and cons of any business proposition.
Aside from pure fraud anyone that takes the money from a kickstarter and uses it to attempt the project and fails due to a cash shortage is obligated to none of the backers, ever. They can just run out of money and walk away. Their only obligations are to their creditors, and guess what Kickstarter'es, you are not one of them, your an investor with no guarantees. Go talk to an attorney and you'll have a better understanding of how impossibly weak your position is.
And once you regulate something like Kickstarter it then turns into just another store or investment source involving equity.
It's a double-edged sword...patronage/crowdfunding gives the one being sponsored practically 100% freedom and flexibility. That's the major strength. The major downfall is the sponsor can get totally burned with no options. You simple can't have the unparalleled flexibility and freedom as the backbone of the system without the obvious risks.
13 285 226 $, and it's failing with massive delays.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Failed KS campaigns have and will more and more be fed to the courts at various levels. People have already been slapped with heavy fines. KS themselves hold no responsibility but the project certainly does.
You stay sassy!
The other 99.999999% of failed Kickstarters have been held to zero responsibility. And that's because, legally, there is none in a patronage-based system.
patronage is between two people of different social status, it often had a religious factor, it was also the first form of tax avoidance
it has nothing to do with crowdfunding
Crowdfunding expands on the concept via the internet. It's the same basic system just on a larger scale.
Easy money.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
As stated you are wrong.
"Patronage is the support, encouragement, privilege, or financial aid that an organization or individual bestows to another."
You are welcome.
Sounds an aweful lot like KS/Indiegogo
This have been a good conversation
But yes, it is donations and not a pre-order. Never spend money you can't afford to just loose and if you get a product out of it then it is great. And as you said, researching the people behind something will tell you the odds (yeah, some of the people here thinks like Han Solo and don't want to hear the odds). Occulus Rift for example had a known and competent boss, which made it worth investing. These guys seems more fishy.
With MMOs (that still are in alpha or earlier, and I wont discuss SC here) I give Shards and Camelot U the highest chance of releasing. Crowfall and Pantheon is more risky but still have devs that are experienced and made good stuff in the past (in Pantheons case I am somewhat worried about Brads handling of money, he is a great game designer though).
Those 4 games are games I think is worth an investment (and I might have forgotten someone) but there are and have been plenty of suspicious games by unknown devs like Stargate worlds (which also proves that a famous IP is no guarantee of anything).
Kickstarters is a great way to support games different from the usual stuff but assume you will lose the money and anythings that comes out besides dreams is a bonus. If you can't loose the money then pre-order something from a large publisher instead, there you will either get a game or your money back.
Patronage has nothing to do with crowdfunding. It is an agreement between two people of different social status (monetary, religious or governmental) and it has nothing to do with a crowd, nor is the agreement always financial.