Will there be PVP?

Salenger

I am sure I am just overlooking the information but will this game (whch looks/sounds great BTW) Have pvp?  

Maygus

Yes.

However it is not without penalty. PvP can be classified as a Crime. If you attack someone in the wilds and incap and coup de gra (kill them) then you can potentially be penalised if caught.

However there will be chances for arena combat (player run) duel's etc. that are fine.

You can defend yourself without penalty in PvP too.

Salenger

Maygus said:

Yes.

However it is not without penalty. PvP can be classified as a Crime. If you attack someone in the wilds and incap and coup de gra (kill them) then you can potentially be penalised if caught.

However there will be chances for arena combat (player run) duel's etc. that are fine.

You can defend yourself without penalty in PvP too.

Thanks,

Wizardry

I like a heck of a lot about this game but looking at the overall picture of the design i see pvp as being a real problem for this game as it has been in all pvp games.

The problem is that pvp will and always does take precedent over everything else a game is trying to do.What is to prevent large annoying guilds from just ruining the fun for everyone else?What is going to stop the Goon Squad from moving in and ruining the entire game?

I cannot remember what was said about penalties but are they really penalties that will work versus very large guilds and who is doing the penalizing,game guards/patrolmen?

Now i could be wrong on the buying lives part but the way i understand it is that you can just buy a life,so deep pockets are going to be able to engage in mindless pvp just because they can keep buying lives.Also apparently you can benefit from dying so again not really a deterrent from just turning it into an all out pvp game.

You see if a large guild takes over which is VERY likely,so much for your rpg aspects like castle/home management because it will all just disappear.So much for wanting to do what you want since you can be interrupted by annoying pvp players all the time.This is the ONLY area that i have concern for this game,if it was me,i would just make npc's the threats for pvp and not real players.

Maquiame

Not only does it have pvp but players can become ultra powerful vampire lords and basically permadeth half the server.

And then you need to go buy a new life to get back into the game. And I'm as serious as cancer about this.

Sovrath

Wizardry said:

The problem is that pvp will and always does take precedent over everything else a game is trying to do.What is to prevent large annoying guilds from just ruining the fun for everyone else?What is going to stop the Goon Squad from moving in and ruining the entire game?

my thought is that maybe this game isn't for everyone, as it should be, and that those people who play would be up for the challenges that such a pvp system would offer.

Prior to me trying Lineage 2 I read everything I could about it, knew what was going on and decided to try it anyway. I remember leaving Dark Elf Village in a group of other people also leaving and being paranoid that any and everyone of them might attack me. What happened? Nothing.

Eventually players would hold bridges hostage, take over hunting grounds, take over dungeons. And others would rise up to stop them.

People still play EVE even though the goon squad is in that game.

So again, not every game has to be for everyone and not every game has to, or should, cater to everyone.

Timberhick

Sovrath said:

Wizardry said:

The problem is that pvp will and always does take precedent over everything else a game is trying to do.What is to prevent large annoying guilds from just ruining the fun for everyone else?What is going to stop the Goon Squad from moving in and ruining the entire game?

my thought is that maybe this game isn't for everyone, as it should be, and that those people who play would be up for the challenges that such a pvp system would offer.

Prior to me trying Lineage 2 I read everything I could about it, knew what was going on and decided to try it anyway. I remember leaving Dark Elf Village in a group of other people also leaving and being paranoid that any and everyone of them might attack me. What happened? Nothing.

Eventually players would hold bridges hostage, take over hunting grounds, take over dungeons. And others would rise up to stop them.

People still play EVE even though the goon squad is in that game.

So again, not every game has to be for everyone and not every game has to, or should, cater to everyone.

The problem that CoE appears to be having is one of identity.

Currently on their Great Big Wish Board is:
Open PvP
Ways to investigate who killed whom
but how that will actually work hasn't been completely figured out yet.

Sovrath

Timberhick said:

The problem that CoE appears to be having is one of identity.

Currently on their Great Big Wish Board is:
Open PvP
Ways to investigate who killed whom
but how that will actually work hasn't been completely figured out yet.

The game is still in development, as far as I know it's not even in Alpha yet, so I think this is "ok".

The problem here is that developers are more often showing players early development. This is the time where they figure things out, cut things, change things.

But players are expecting that the game be "figured out" already.

I'm writing a musical (more like a sophisticated bit of musical theater) and I'm still adding, changing, altering things even though I have "most" figured out to the end. But not everything. As one works other things become apparent as "better" or making things "more clear". 

Things will be cut as well.

It's ok if they don't have everything figured out. When it's not "ok" is at release.

VictoriaRachel

Timberhick said:

The problem that CoE appears to be having is one of identity.

Currently on their Great Big Wish Board is:
Open PvP
Ways to investigate who killed whom
but how that will actually work hasn't been completely figured out yet.

I thought that was something they knew how it would work. There is a forensic skill which players can use to determine a killers identity. The higher the skill the more likely they are to find out the identity. Though the fun part is with the identiy and disguises option in the game it might not be ther characters real identiy they find. There are parts of the other systems and skills  that are still very much under development (as would be expected of a game of this stage) but I think they have said this much has been established.

Maygus said:

Yes.

However it is not without penalty. PvP can be classified as a Crime. If you attack someone in the wilds and incap and coup de gra (kill them) then you can potentially be penalised if caught.

However there will be chances for arena combat (player run) duel's etc. that are fine.

You can defend yourself without penalty in PvP too.

I have to elaborate on this one. People always jump to the "it is a crime" part. It is often a crime, is far closer to the truth. However, just as in our world there are times where PvP is not criminal, and it can actually be rewarded. Take law enforcement for example. The game has a bounty system which works in tandom with the players contract system. You break a contract (and that includes the laws that make unwarrented PvP a crime) and you face the consequences, which could be being taken to court. Who takes you to court? A bounty hunter, who is another player. How do they get you there? They ask nicely... when that doesn't work they incapaciate you through PvP and take you. So there are ways to PvP that are entirely legal!

There are also ways to reduce the chances of getting caught such as using false identies and disguises, even framing someone else!

Basically there is PvP, and there will be a lot of people engaging in it, you just have to approach it a little differently from other games where you simply slaughter any other player you see.

Timberhick

Then your post I quoted makes little sense.

Abydos-CDD

I hope PvP will take important place in this game.

Timberhick

Abydos-CDD said:

I hope PvP will take important place in this game.

It wont.

They keep saying that this game has open PvP, then turn around and make PvP so disadvantageous it would be asinine for any sane person to attempt.

but they "have open PvP", nudge nudge wink wink.

Fenrial

The more I read about this game the more I'm inclined to agree with Timberhick about this. Oh there will be open pvp... but only those with a lot of disposable income will be able to afford the spirit loss, or rather the real life money sink that comes with the multiple deaths you'll incur with pvp.

I don't care how good you are/think you are, as a pvper you can expect to die a lot, certainly more than is the norm and that will cost you real money.

JeromyWalsh

Abydos-CDD said:

I hope PvP will take important place in this game.

Important is not the same as frequent... and that's precisely our goal. PvP, that is, player vs. player physical combat will happen less frequently in CoE (by design), but will have bigger impact on the players, and an impact on the story - something that doesn't exist in other MMOs.

Legal means of combat such as wars, arena combat, dueling, etc... all have an impact on your player, and occasionally on the story. Wars change political boundaries, and usher in the era of a new Duke or King, etc. Arena combat can gain someone fame & renown, and can earn them jobs that they otherwise wouldn't have been offered. It can also sometimes make them a target. Dueling can be used to resolve contract disputes.

Illegal forms of combat, such as highway robbery, murder, etc... while illegal, and hopefully less common than in other MMOs will almost always have some impact on the story. And this isn't just the larger 10-year story. It's liable to ignite players into action, put them on a man-hunt, etc...

So again, while PvP may not be as common in CoE, it will almost always be important.

Bellomo

PEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

IndirectPvP

It is a MMO anything you do is PvP  doesn't matter if it is backstabbing or loot grabbing.  If you are in competition with anyone for anything it is pvp.  Just my opinion anyways. 

Grelf

Edit: Nevermind.

DARTHGALEN5

A game I may chip in where PvP is illegal in some places, or districts.. Oo that makes me shiver.

Jangular

JeromyWalsh said:

Important is not the same as frequent... and that's precisely our goal. PvP, that is, player vs. player physical combat will happen less frequently in CoE (by design), but will have bigger impact on the players, and an impact on the story - something that doesn't exist in other MMOs.

That's what makes it more appealing, in my opinion at least. I'd like to have something different than a pvp grind for rating or rank, or to just level. The idea of story driven being highlighted over and over is a big part of what's drawing a lot of people in I think.

RiverBird

Timberhick said:

Abydos-CDD said:

I hope PvP will take important place in this game.

It wont.

They keep saying that this game has open PvP, then turn around and make PvP so disadvantageous it would be asinine for any sane person to attempt.

but they "have open PvP", nudge nudge wink wink.

This game isn't trying to label itself as an PVP focsed game, is there a problem with that? Not everyone wants to just pvp pvp pvp, is there a place for PvP? Yes, you can go into the wilds, kill people, be an assasin, as others have said, you'd be doing so illegally.

That's asumming it's just peace time, you can easily spend some time, traveling to a distant town, go in a killing spree, then skip town, or keep doing that town to town like a serial killer, simple. People do it in real life, they kill because it entertains them, you can just as well do that in the game.

Or in times of war, you can go out in massive wars against other people and kill drones of other players. It's been stated that, in wartime you won't incur multiple death penalties, meaning you won't keep losing time off your life every time you do. So in a way, the game 'Has' catered to your desires for open PvP, and there will be. Use siege equipment to destroy villages or cities, kill people, rob them, plunder exc.

The largest part you need to note, is it isn't meaningless PvP, everyone has to have a reason, those large wars may or may not occur every so often, but when they do that's what makes it so epic.

Now, it's true what you say, that there IS open PVP, but it's disadvantageous, but is there a problem with that?

IndirectPvP

RiverBird said:

Timberhick said:

Abydos-CDD said:

I hope PvP will take important place in this game.

It wont.

They keep saying that this game has open PvP, then turn around and make PvP so disadvantageous it would be asinine for any sane person to attempt.

but they "have open PvP", nudge nudge wink wink. 

"The largest part you need to note, is it isn't meaningless PvP, everyone has to have a reason, those large wars may or may not occur every so often, but when they do that's what makes it so epic."

I would have to chime in and say PvP is open, and doesn't come with any serious disadvantages i can see.  Sure you may be labeled an outlaw, or a criminal, you may be prosecuted and have a bounty on your head. Sure you may take some hits to your soul and possibly your life is shortened.  People who run around all day long murdering people live shorter lives, i would imagine it is dangerous preying on others.  

I doubt you will see blobs of naked people running around with huge rocks trying to smash everyone. That form of PvP will be very rare i imagine...  What I envision is more organized, more deceptive, and way more ruthless in a satisfying way.  I see more bandits and assassinations of the rich and powerful,  it will be less chasing down every person you see outside the city walls and more gathering your friends and trying to sack a caravan for all their hard work, but you can still roam in gangs picking on poor woodsman if you so desire.  

My advice is to grab a disguise, a few friends and go to the next town... murder everyone.  Come home without your disguise and plan your next raid. 

Grelf

RiverBird said:

That's asumming it's just peace time, you can easily spend some time, traveling to a distant town, go in a killing spree, then skip town, or keep doing that town to town like a serial killer, simple. People do it in real life, they kill because it entertains them, you can just as well do that in the game.

That's clearly something you won't see in this game, and I doubt it's the sort of illegal PvP most people are interested on anyway.

RiverBird said:

Now, it's true what you say, that there IS open PVP, but it's disadvantageous, but is there a problem with that?

Yes, there is a problem, because a lot of people are disillusoned this game will have a place for this kind of playstyle. It doesn't take a genius, just check the official forums to see the amount of guilds dedicated to "illegal" behaviors. The developers also spend a lot of time going back and forth about exciting "illegal" PvP aspects that will be nothing but a fraction of the game if they even make it to the final version, since it's obviously so discouraged to the point it will barely even happen. So much for the player "raid boss".

Abydos-CDD

Order vs Chaos

RosutoGenjitsu

Grelf said:

RiverBird said:

That's asumming it's just peace time, you can easily spend some time, traveling to a distant town, go in a killing spree, then skip town, or keep doing that town to town like a serial killer, simple. People do it in real life, they kill because it entertains them, you can just as well do that in the game.

That's clearly something you won't see in this game, and I doubt it's the sort of illegal PvP most people are interested on anyway.

RiverBird said:

Now, it's true what you say, that there IS open PVP, but it's disadvantageous, but is there a problem with that?

Yes, there is a problem, because a lot of people are disillusoned this game will have a place for this kind of playstyle. It doesn't take a genius, just check the official forums to see the amount of guilds dedicated to "illegal" behaviors. The developers also spend a lot of time going back and forth about exciting "illegal" PvP aspects that will be nothing but a fraction of the game if they even make it to the final version, since it's obviously so discouraged to the point it will barely even happen. So much for the player "raid boss".

This, is a prime example of pessimism, nothing said was constructive, and was riddled with negative assumptions about both the game and the developers.

HabitualFrogStomp

RosutoGenjitsu said:

Grelf said:

RiverBird said:

That's asumming it's just peace time, you can easily spend some time, traveling to a distant town, go in a killing spree, then skip town, or keep doing that town to town like a serial killer, simple. People do it in real life, they kill because it entertains them, you can just as well do that in the game.

That's clearly something you won't see in this game, and I doubt it's the sort of illegal PvP most people are interested on anyway.

RiverBird said:

Now, it's true what you say, that there IS open PVP, but it's disadvantageous, but is there a problem with that?

Yes, there is a problem, because a lot of people are disillusoned this game will have a place for this kind of playstyle. It doesn't take a genius, just check the official forums to see the amount of guilds dedicated to "illegal" behaviors. The developers also spend a lot of time going back and forth about exciting "illegal" PvP aspects that will be nothing but a fraction of the game if they even make it to the final version, since it's obviously so discouraged to the point it will barely even happen. So much for the player "raid boss".

This, is a prime example of pessimism, nothing said was constructive, and was riddled with negative assumptions about both the game and the developers.

Really both your posts have said this exact same thing. I don't see how you think it's constructive to make an account just to tell people they're not being constructive. This is one of the more ridiculous things I've seen on this site, and I've seen my share.

Nobody needs to hear that, add to the discussion or move on.

Deffcon_1

HabitualFrogStomp said:

RosutoGenjitsu said:

Grelf said:

Really both your posts have said this exact same thing. I don't see how you think it's constructive to make an account just to tell people they're not being constructive. This is one of the more ridiculous things I've seen on this site, and I've seen my share.

Nobody needs to hear that, add to the discussion or move on.

This coming from you is hilarious. You bring nothing to the conversation. All you do is being negativity and nothing constructive. Why do you still post here? If all you want to do is break the game down, why post?