Is the grind too much?

l2avism

The grind is making me lose hope in this game.
I think most people will quit the game around t5.

Crafting is also very broken. You literally have to give away what you make because nobody will pay anything for it.

l2avism

DMKano said:

The problem is how rare resource nodes  are prime time - this makes the grind too much.

Log in at 3am and the resource nodes are plenty and the grind is tolerable  (at lower levels)

So yes it is too much due to world size / overcrowding in the beginning. 

Not only that, but it literally takes you 3 whole days to go from t3 to t4. Even longer for t5.
It takes about 5 times longer without a premium account.

I think what's happening is people are buying gold from Sandbox and using that to buy the materials to farm rep through crafting and then trying to dump the stuff they crafted on the market.
It's so bad now that you have day 1 nubs buying t5 equipment from the market and asking in global why they can't use it yet. People are literally giving things away.

l2avism

oh wow. 100% after 5 votes

Allein

Haven't played myself, but the few streamers I've been watching don't seem to have much issue. Didn't take them 3 days (72 hours?) to go from t3 to t4 either.

From the outside looking in and why I'm still waiting to see what happens, the game needs more to do outside of the straight forward grinds, the board needs to be reworked and over things need to be looked at as to how enjoyable they are and if they'll keep folks coming back. All of which seems to be in the works, they aren't oblivious to feedback.

These games need a grind as there isn't an "end game" to do as the end game is the same thing happening all the time.

Overall, looks like the game still has growing to do and will hopefully happen sooner than later.

l2avism

Allein said:

Haven't played myself, but the few streamers I've been watching don't seem to have much issue. Didn't take them 3 days (72 hours?) to go from t3 to t4 either.

Do you even know what t4 is?

tom_gore

It's not only the grind. The real "fun" begins at T4 when you realize you will have to go to the red (open PvP) zones to progress. If you go alone or in a group of 2-3 you will be regularly trashed by bigger groups and will have to replace your T4 gear, which costs in the ballpark of 50-100k silver every time.

Add to the fact you have to kill literally thousands of mobs to proceed from T4 and the end result is either join a big guild or GTFO.

The developers are looking into it and the current solution seems to be both reducing the fame requirements of T4+ and to allow gaining combat experience from 1 tier below your current tier. This would mean you could comfortably grind to T5 before you would again be forced to join a big guild to progress, so the solution is rather temporary.

It'll be interesting to see how and if the devs are going to help smaller guilds stay in the game, or if that is their goal at all.

tom_gore

Allein said:

These games need a grind as there isn't an "end game" to do as the end game is the same thing happening all the time.

You're wrong. This game has an "end game" and it is the territory wars between large guilds. Unfortunately, it's only for large guilds as smaller ones will not be able to hold ground there.

Allein

l2avism said:

Allein said:

Haven't played myself, but the few streamers I've been watching don't seem to have much issue. Didn't take them 3 days (72 hours?) to go from t3 to t4 either.

Do you even know what t4 is?

Yes. As I've said, haven't played, but there are plenty of folks streaming or reporting as to having no issue going from t3-t4+.

You said it "literally" takes 3 whole days to do so and that is just wrong unless you are 100% solo in green zones farming things that were just farmed for the lowest amount of fame possible.

Although, "literally" is like OMG over used these days like for realz.... /s

Can the grind, progress, board all be adjusted? Of course and that is what they are doing. Game isn't finished. You're not the first to say it is too much.

Beyond t4 and especially t5 it seems to really slow down, but there isn't an easy way to fix it as no matter what, there will be large efficient guilds and players with a lot of time rushing to "the end." As it is, at least others have some sort of chance to catch up at a point, even if they are 1% into t6 and others are 50%.

Allein

tom_gore said:

Allein said:

These games need a grind as there isn't an "end game" to do as the end game is the same thing happening all the time.

You're wrong. This game has an "end game" and it is the territory wars between large guilds. Unfortunately, it's only for large guilds as smaller ones will not be able to hold ground there.

So no guilds of any size have started territory wars yet? Gotcha.

The map is full of lies...

"Real fun" begins at t4. Man it must suck for everyone playing currently, all that time and no fun at all. Considering that people can get to t4 in 1-2 play sessions, not that crazy. Beforehand is basically the tutorial extended.

Seems yellow is viable for a while, but going into red either a lone or small group doesn't equal instant death.

At the same time, game is supposed to have a focus on GvG and larger group sizes. Attempting to solo t1-8 probably not the best way to play, but still see people running around in red zones PVPing, gathering, PVEing just fine.

Sounds like they are going to add in solo/small group content for PVE along with PVP more than they have already.

No one is forced to do anything. Seems to be the typical situation of people expecting their preferred style of play in every single game and having issue when they can't do X when the game calls for Y.

Don't want to go in red zones and lose your stuff solo? Don't. There are solutions for the problems, even though the devs are attempting to decrease the issues some are having.

kenpokiller

Premium gather rates turn me off
still wanna play

Revy106

grind is insane

Abydos-CDD

@Abydos-cdd Easy game

Viper482

l2avism said:

DMKano said:

The problem is how rare resource nodes  are prime time - this makes the grind too much.

Log in at 3am and the resource nodes are plenty and the grind is tolerable  (at lower levels)

So yes it is too much due to world size / overcrowding in the beginning. 

Not only that, but it literally takes you 3 whole days to go from t3 to t4. Even longer for t5.
It takes about 5 times longer without a premium account.

3 whole days?! Omg....that is like.......36 hours!

Allein

https://forum.albiononline.com/index.php/Thread/24662-Fame-beyond-T4-Progression-after-T4/?postID=265008#post265008

tom_gore

Yep as I said they're doing some changes so you can effectively get to T6 on yellow zones, so it moves the "problem" of having to go to red zones a bit (actually quite a lot, since the T5-T6 grind is pretty big). Also, at T6 you can comfortably go 1v1 with T7 or T8 if you know what you're doing (and the T7/8 equipped player is not a pro himself). The difference between tiers is not that big. Numbers and skill count for a lot.

Still, as everything will be wiped before launch, I think I'll just try out different weapons to T4 and then put the game to the back burner. As soon as they fix the war camps our guild is also going to try out the territory wars a bit. There's no point investing countless hours to grind to the higher tiers, as you'll be back at zero in about two months.

tkoreaper

Grind is too much simply because you still need to farm materials from the first tier. When it comes to crafting/refining you don't really 'progress' you only expand on the stuff you have to do to make better stuff lol. It's a never-ending grind.

Sk00ba

Some people just want everything to come easy.

Scorchien

Grind is bad and world is Far Far Far to small....

Soarlozer

There is a lot of problems with the mmorpg community. This game is basically a homage to the old school games, and you are supposed to basically specialize. Crafting is grindy so that people that solely want to craft can have a place in the world. If it was easy or reasonable for anyone to craft, the crafter types wouldn't want to play this as they would have no impact on the world. I mean how would you make a profit if literally everyone can craft what you could, that is the exact reason why low level stuff doesn't sell or sells for a loss, because that is stuff people make before they give up trying to craft.

You can't really comment on lower resources as the beta economy will be different than a launch economy. This is literally a copy paste of eve but with a worst map (since there can only be 4 entrances in albion). Plenty of "crafters", haulers, and miners made a living in safe zone.

I am not a crafter or gather so I can't really talk about why the current mechanics are actually boring. But combat is extremely boring in pve. Skill shots are a much needed thing but doubt will happen.

I just don't get why people want to change every single game to be another generic one, I don't some things about this game, probably won't play it unless they change what I want, but its okay that people are enjoying this. Niche games are okay, not everything needs to cater to the  late 90s early 2000s mmorpg players that grew up and want to lie to themselves about still being hardcore just with less free time on their hands.

Thane

Sk00ba said:

Some people just want everything to come easy.

yep, and in the end they complain that the game is too easy and every scrub can do it :pleased: 

see WoW. first raids have been "too hard" (classic, MC prequest and co), and in the end they cry because "everyone completed the game" (LFR... lol,whatever guys...)

some people simply like to complain, THAT is their mmo. not the games they play :awesome: 

Avanah

I'm not the kind of person that says "I told you so." so I won't, but to reiterate....
I played this in Pre-Alpha in 2014 and got a refund since things didn't or will not change. 
You WILL spend lots of TIME if not REAL cash to get things done in this game...sadly.

jesteralways

l2avism said:

The grind is making me lose hope in this game.
I think most people will quit the game around t5.

Crafting is also very broken. You literally have to give away what you make because nobody will pay anything for it.

Isn't too much grind=sandbox? I mean when it comes to talking about old school sandbox games, old school players always talk about how it took them 1 year to find a +1 stats weapon or something.

Gravend

took me 1 day to go from t1-t4 so no the grinding is nothing, i was also a t4 gatherer after 1 day

l2avism

Soarlozer said:

There is a lot of problems with the mmorpg community. This game is basically a homage to the old school games, and you are supposed to basically specialize. Crafting is grindy so that people that solely want to craft can have a place in the world. If it was easy or reasonable for anyone to craft, the crafter types wouldn't want to play this as they would have no impact on the world. I mean how would you make a profit if literally everyone can craft what you could, that is the exact reason why low level stuff doesn't sell or sells for a loss, because that is stuff people make before they give up trying to craft.

You can't really comment on lower resources as the beta economy will be different than a launch economy. This is literally a copy paste of eve but with a worst map (since there can only be 4 entrances in albion). Plenty of "crafters", haulers, and miners made a living in safe zone.

I am not a crafter or gather so I can't really talk about why the current mechanics are actually boring. But combat is extremely boring in pve. Skill shots are a much needed thing but doubt will happen.

I just don't get why people want to change every single game to be another generic one, I don't some things about this game, probably won't play it unless they change what I want, but its okay that people are enjoying this. Niche games are okay, not everything needs to cater to the  late 90s early 2000s mmorpg players that grew up and want to lie to themselves about still being hardcore just with less free time on their hands.

Crafting is ruined because everyone does it. You can't sell anything because the market is flooded with millions of everything that someone made just to grind up fame.

The problem is this game IS A GENERIC ONE.

l2avism

jesteralways said:

l2avism said:

The grind is making me lose hope in this game.
I think most people will quit the game around t5.

Crafting is also very broken. You literally have to give away what you make because nobody will pay anything for it.

Isn't too much grind=sandbox? I mean when it comes to talking about old school sandbox games, old school players always talk about how it took them 1 year to find a +1 stats weapon or something.

NO!!!!

Sandbox has nothing to do with grind. Too much grind is a symptom of a themepark with a lack of content.
Sandbox is about choice and not about grind.

I'm leaving albion and going back to shadowbane.

kdchan

Grind belong to themepark not sandbox, expecially sandbox with full loot and player driven economy.

I mean, in a game where your gear decay and you can lose it after a fight, you need to have a fast replacement, now if crafting gear is tedious and require hours of grind, then everybody will get bored fast and leave.Timesink is really detrimental to these games.

In game like UO gear don't give your an enourmous advantage but only an edge, also is easy to gather resources and craft is simple, or if you aren't a crafter you can easy buy from other player in the market place.

Designing a game around resources grind and gear to progress mean is very bad designed. Sandbox should focus on player driven content, territory control and clan warfare, not how much you grind.

Hope devs will correct this aspect before the release or they will lose tons of players. Even Darkfall understand this part.

B2P is a great step ahead, in these competitive games everyone should have access to the same stuff and not only who buy more from the cash shop. So i'm ok with a B2P model.