DCUO 18 million and the surprising success of mmo's on consoles.

SyndromofaDown

http://venturebeat.com/2014/12/04/dc-universe-online-grows-to-18m-users-with-ps4-leading-the-way/

DCUO is completely free-to-play with cash shop items. 75% of the active playerbase are from consoles with the majority leading with hours played. DCUO released last year on ps4 and 40% of new registered characters from it.

To put the market in perspective. There are 80 million ps3 consoles worldwide, with ps4 selling 20 million up to date. Not to mention the Xbox market. 

EQNext is confirmed, for now atleast, for a pc release first. But they are definitely in the interest to make console versions. 

Is this the future of mmo's? Will action combat be redeemable? Will cartoon graphics be vindicated?

CrazKanuk

I think action combat makes sense on console, for sure. As far as graphics style, I think it boils down to context. In a super hero game I think it makes a lot more sense, but in the end it's still very subjective. 

Allein

Action combat and cartoony art styles are very popular. No need to redeem or vindicate them.

Can DBG get the game to work smoothly on consoles or PCs? That's an unknown.

Maybe they should of aimed at consoles first and kept the requirements down or something as Landmark is pretty poorly optimized and while it has improved, still not very good despite good machines.

FFXIV and ESO are doing fine on consoles so mmos on different systems seem very viable. Not sure if EQN's voxels and other systems would work, but I don't make games for a living.

Also, that number has no real importance. How many actually play the game regularly and how many of them aren't gold farmers?

Believe I read that less than 5% of DCUO players actually spent money in/on the game. Maybe that is enough, but seems pretty low.

Talonsin

To be honest, I picked up a PS4 for my kids this Christmas.  I am slowly making the move to console for my online play since it saves me from paying the box fee three times (one for me and my two boys).  With a console, any one of us can play and I only have to buy one copy of the game.  I also dont have to worry about my youngest logging in as me and spending all my in-game money like I would if we shared an account on the PC.

SyndromofaDown

CrazKanuk said:

I think action combat makes sense on console, for sure. As far as graphics style, I think it boils down to context. In a super hero game I think it makes a lot more sense, but in the end it's still very subjective. 

I think this would be better game on consoles than many would imagine. I think there's 8 buttons to press and then heroic movement. The graphics will use ps4 and im sorry xbox one but the UI and stuff will be watered down on the console. But then you dont have to worry about system requirements and know you'll get at least 80fps even in cities. If you want something to bash things on in the consoles then stylized graphics might not be bad. If the combat is worth anything good i think this will sell. If they could find anything that connects consoles to pcs then this would be a hell of a game.

azarhal

That article is one year old...

Action combat is redeemable, they just need to stop nerfing it to please the whinny PvPers. Also, if EQNext/Landmark combat currently available in Landmark was closer to DCUO, it would be a lot more fun.

Allein said:

Believe I read that less than 5% of DCUO players actually spent money in/on the game. Maybe that is enough, but seems pretty low.

It's higher than that on the console version of the game, there is a huge difference between the PC and console playerbase money spending behavior on that game.

Kabaal

Pretty sure most big games that started or went free to play would have about the same amount of people signing up over time. It doesn't mean they still play.

Allein

SyndromofaDown said:

But then you dont have to worry about system requirements and know you'll get at least 80fps even in cities.

80 fps? Must be some next-next gen console.

SyndromofaDown

"Believe I read that less than 5% of DCUO players actually spent money in/on the game." 
"...How many actually play the game regularly..."?

142,000 characters CR 100+ (current end tier) across all servers 

"if EQNext/Landmark combat currently available in Landmark was closer to DCUO, it would be a lot more fun. "

The DCUO team has been testing out the combat. 

"Pretty sure most big games that started or went free to play would have about the same amount of people signing up over time. It doesn't mean they still play."

Don't know. DCUO has 100,000+ people playing the end tier content on the pc. The consoles triple that. I'd say it was pretty successful.

bentrim

OP, EQN "has been confirmed"??? Wishful thinking, NOTHING has been confirmed, other than it IS VAPORWARE!

SyndromofaDown

"That article is one year old... "

22 million registered users since of march 2015. So obviously that game is growing. And now im going to play that (no lie). Ill just use my all access and get subbed to the game. But ill wait until i get a controller.

"80 fps? Must be some next-next gen console."

I've heard someone complaining about only getting 60fps in Landmark. This was a year ago. PS4 could easily do 100+ im talking about in cities.

Wizardry

We should remember them bragging about Free Realms and 10 million,then the game shut down after only 4 years and was already a ghost town by year 3.

5% That is an old given that marketing businesses used to offer developers as their advice and possible profits.I would not doubt 5% is possible but likely only 1% spends a significant amount.

Burntvet

Regardless, It did not help SOE much.

SOE was sold for beer money to some venture capitalists, and Smed got shitcanned. (Both well deserved in my opinion.)

So whether or not DCUO was a "failure", the company that made it and the CEO of that company certainly are.

Allein

SyndromofaDown said:

"Believe I read that less than 5% of DCUO players actually spent money in/on the game." 
"...How many actually play the game regularly..."?

142,000 characters CR 100+ (current end tier) across all servers 

"if EQNext/Landmark combat currently available in Landmark was closer to DCUO, it would be a lot more fun. "

The DCUO team has been testing out the combat. 

"Pretty sure most big games that started or went free to play would have about the same amount of people signing up over time. It doesn't mean they still play."

Don't know. DCUO has 100,000+ people playing the end tier content on the pc. The consoles triple that. I'd say it was pretty successful.

So being generous, 0.8% people that have tried DCUO actually play it. Not sure if that is good or bad relatively speaking but makes the 18 million number pointless.

Have to assume people have multiple characters and then there are gold farmers.

Either way, game is still going and people enjoy it so that's positive.

However, DCUO =/= EQN. Completely different designs and types of games or so I'd hope.

I assume EQN's Heroic aspect was influenced by DCUO and if it ends up being similar, I wouldn't be upset.

However, EQ-RPG-Fantasy combat/style typically doesn't feel the same as a super hero action game and I would hope to see more of the former than the latter.

Interesting note since you brought up Crowfall in a response to me, Thomas Blair who was the Lead System Designer for DCUO is now the Design Lead for Crowfall.

SyndromofaDown

Wizardry said:

We should remember them bragging about Free Realms and 10 million,then the game shut down after only 4 years and was already a ghost town by year 3.

5% That is an old given that marketing businesses used to offer developers as their advice and possible profits.I would not doubt 5% is possible but likely only 1% spends a significant amount.

http://evilasahobby.com/2011/02/05/dcuo-money-theirs-and-ours/

"Three weeks after launch, DCUO has sold 262k physical PS3 boxes and 95k physical PC boxes. "

"If you take these rough estimates, DCUO has sold around 500k copies worldwide, driven heavily by the North American market. From the overall viewpoint, that’s not bad, but still a long way from making back that US$50m development budget. " 

taken from a feb. 2011 article.

I believe now its closer to 1 million copies sold. And Jans Anderson the lead developer has been promoted by Daybreak.

azarhal

SyndromofaDown said:

"That article is one year old... "

22 million registered users since of march 2015. So obviously that game is growing. And now im going to play that (no lie). Ill just use my all access and get subbed to the game. But ill wait until i get a controller.

It plays well with with a mouse/keyboard, some powersets might be a bit of a pain with the combos though, but I can't say if a controller would help with the twitchiness.

SyndromofaDown said:

"if EQNext/Landmark combat currently available in Landmark was closer to DCUO, it would be a lot more fun. "

The DCUO team has been testing out the combat. 

That doesn't mean it will be similar though.

Allein

SyndromofaDown said:

"80 fps? Must be some next-next gen console."

I've heard someone complaining about only getting 60fps in Landmark. This was a year ago. PS4 could easily do 100+ im talking about in cities.

Not sure if serious?

Do you own a console? Have you played Landmark?

Forelight is a poor engine. PS2 suffered for a long time (haven't played in a while) and Landmark was/is just not up to snuff although it obviously isn't fully optimized.

Have to assume you simply don't know what you are talking about.

100+ FPS for a console game, not to mention a MMO with tons of people roaming around. No.

A year ago (when people played LM) performance was all over the place and that was without a ton of monsters/players/stuff in the world. Considering the lack of progress, doubt it has improved much.

Allein

SyndromofaDown said:

taken from a feb. 2011 article.

A few months make a big difference in mmo land.

You could start referencing 2000 articles about how great EQ is doing...

MMOs can and do work on consoles, will EQN be one of them? We don't know. Stats from other products don't matter and if anything don't make it sound too promising.

SyndromofaDown

"Do you own a console? Have you played Landmark?"

Geekdomo got 60-80fps in Landmark i think 2 years ago. I think his rig cost him 2 grand. PS4 wasn't out at that time. So im thinking since EQN uses different code it would be easier on systems rather than taxing your whole pc because of voxels. You don't build on anything, its not as bad.

azarhal

Landmark fps was killed  a few times by patches since alpha. One was caused by adding static water, it was just rendered everywhere even if you couldn't see it (that was fixed, but going near water cause a fps hit). Caves also got an issues where the surface objects (rocks/trees) are rendered even if you are 2 kilometers undergrounds and can't see them (the occlusion culling isn't working properly).

Also, Forgelight in Landmark is DX9 only, performance gain can be achieved just by moving to DX11 and again by moving to DX12 (DX9 to DX11 is a bigger step).

SyndromofaDown

I get 25 fps in Landmark Nvidia GT720 8 gigs of Ram. Most likely the last PC i get in a while. Ill probably upgrade the graphics card and the Ram. 

Allein

SyndromofaDown said:

"Do you own a console? Have you played Landmark?"

Geekdomo got 60-80fps in Landmark i think 2 years ago. I think his rig cost him 2 grand. PS4 wasn't out at that time. So im thinking since EQN uses different code it would be easier on systems rather than taxing your whole pc because of voxels. You don't build on anything, its not as bad.

A $2k gaming PC is hopefully much much better than any console now or in the near future.

PS4 might be equal to a ~$500 PC.

EQN "code" might be different, but still built of Voxels and all the come with it. There is supposed to be building/destructing in EQN just like Landmark, just not player built every 5 feet.

Unless they change the engine, Forelight isn't going to magically improve. Updated DX might help, but they would have to actually do it.

They could tone down everything and make it playable on a console, but when someone with a $2k machine gets 60-80 FPS in a world without other players/mobs and typical mmo stuff, it would probably end up looking like Minecraft unless they do something significant.

A well built console mmo should get 30-60 FPS. 100+ not going to happen and if you think so, should do a 5 min search of console FPS and what they average.

SyndromofaDown

Y'know i have never seen anything more complicated than this: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/the-go-go-gadget-guide-to-everything-gadgets.318/

While he's actually making that guide he could be in a labratory making some methadone...

kitarad

SyndromofaDown said:

Y'know i have never seen anything more complicated than this: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/the-go-go-gadget-guide-to-everything-gadgets.318/

While he's actually making that guide he could be in a labratory making some methadone...

My god that is really complex. He sure spent a lot of time on it. Lot of dedication, kinda scary.

SyndromofaDown

Planetside 2 on consoles: https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/3beey9/planetside_2_ps4_release_numbers/

gervaise1

The article is dated December 2014.
Perhaps a better title would have been: Fueled by the success of DCUO Sony writes off $60M and will sell SoE in 3 months time.

Also worth remembering that DCUO was a 3 company project. Whatever the arrangement now any profits will be split 3 ways or have to fund royalty payments.