Are there any MMOs with non gear based pvp?

makasouleater69

Just to start, I do not need you to tell me that MOBAs are out there lol, or that there are FPS. My question is, are there any MMORPGS, with quests, good story lines ect, but where PVP is not based on who spent the most time getting the best gear, which new better gear comes out every month, to grind again, and again, just to PVP. I was liking Neverwinter good story, liked the characters ect, but the PVP there is so gear based, it is not fun to play. Example is, if you have the gear you get while leveling, and you go to pvp, they can kill you in like literally 2-5 seconds, but you could spend 3 mins, attacking them with out them doing anything, and you wouldn't kill them. Most MMORPG I have played have this pvp garbage. 

Any one come out with one that is just skill pvp, and not who spend more money, or who spent more time grinding gear?

Elsabolts

USMC recruiting

Azaron_Nightblade

I don't think you'll ever find that in an MMO. They're all about timesinks to get you to stay around for as long as possible. Since the longer you stick around, the greater the chances are of you giving them money.

It's why MOBAs became so popular among those who enjoy PvP. For the most part you get a level playing field that's not completely based on who's invested the most hours into PvP. (Or in some cases, who was the most willing to open their wallets)

Athisar

Doesn't Guild Wars 2 equalise all gear for PVP? I've heard it does but I don't play.

makasouleater69

Elsabolts said:

USMC recruiting

I don't think killing people in a military , is the same thing as pvp in video games lol. 

makasouleater69

Azaron_Nightblade said:

I don't think you'll ever find that in an MMO. They're all about timesinks to get you to stay around for as long as possible. Since the longer you stick around, the greater the chances are of you giving them money.

It's why MOBAs became so popular among those who enjoy PvP. For the most part you get a level playing field that's not completely based on who's invested the most hours into PvP. (Or in some cases, who was the most willing to open their wallets)

That sucks, I was hoping for something like that. Ahh well. Don't see why they couldn't just make one where everything is the same a modern MMO, just that when you join a pvp match, battle or something like that, all stats go to a base level. From what I see, the majority of people do not even play PVP, and focus more on the PVE, so as far as gear goes, it could still be a function of PVE, just goes away at pvp. I think they would make more money doing that. Instead of the gear in PVP, giving you a instant win/advantage, it could give you better looking stuff, having the gear all cosmetic, and keeping the battlefield even. 

Thanks for the response. 

makasouleater69

Athisar said:

Doesn't Guild Wars 2 equalise all gear for PVP? I've heard it does but I don't play.

Never played it, I will have to look into that, that is what i was hoping for. Thanks for the tip. 

Nepheth

Guild Wars 2.

makasouleater69

Athisar said:

Doesn't Guild Wars 2 equalise all gear for PVP? I've heard it does but I don't play.

Looks like you are right, I will have to try it. Thanks very much. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Structured_PvP

BeansnBread

Rhoklaw said:

Guild Wars 2 is gear based PvP, but getting good gear isn't really that hard. I mean, definitely not as difficult as some games.

In structured PvP, it's all free. And you can go in at any time.

makasouleater69

Rhoklaw said:

Guild Wars 2 is gear based PvP, but getting good gear isn't really that hard. I mean, definitely not as difficult as some games.

Well that sucks, i guess that structured pvp thing, is just misleading then?

Rusque

makasouleater69 said:

Rhoklaw said:

Guild Wars 2 is gear based PvP, but getting good gear isn't really that hard. I mean, definitely not as difficult as some games.

Well that sucks, i guess that structured pvp thing, is just misleading then?

The sPvP gear in GW2 is free. You just walk up to the vendor, pick out the gear with the stats you want, add the runes you want and go to town. RvR is bring your own gear that you wear in PvE.

Pnurchili

Gear will always give someone an advantage in PVP. The old sandboxes like UO were as close to equality as an MMORPG could get. In the early days the best gear a person could get was equipment crafted by a gm blacksmith. It generally consisted of either plate or mail (or a combination of the two) and a sword or mace. It was relatively cheap, because if you died the victor would take all of your armor off your corpse (the good ole days).

Now, the games are about playing thousands of hours in order to earn enough points to buy specialized armor for PVP. It is about generating billions of dollars for gaming companies, and not satisfying gamers motivational drives. It is a sad day in gaming.

makasouleater69

Pnurchili said:

Gear will always give someone an advantage in PVP. The old sandboxes like UO were as close to equality as an MMORPG could get. In the early days the best gear a person could get was equipment crafted by a gm blacksmith. It generally consisted of either plate or mail (or a combination of the two) and a sword or mace. It was relatively cheap, because if you died the victor would take all of your armor off your corpse (the good ole days).

Now, the games are about playing thousands of hours in order to earn enough points to buy specialized armor for PVP. It is about generating billions of dollars for gaming companies, and not satisfying gamers motivational drives. It is a sad day in gaming.

I remember those days lol. Could get a 1000 ingots, in like a hour, and bring it to Minoc, and a GM smith would be happy to trade that for a full set of dex gear, and weapons. Then it was out to the woods to lose it in a few hours, with your friend back to back, bandaiding each other, good times good times.

I guess, the new age is not not my thing, other than MOBAS, and FPS, same too, cause UO had a good stroy, pvp, and pve. Then they turned it into what your saying. Thousands of hours to grind, to get a random created item, that can be boosted by cash shop items. 

Athisar

I think gear based PVP in MMOs can be reasonably done as long as:

1. There is adequate matching between players, so that only similarly geared players fight each other.
2. Progression is via play, and no advantages can be obtained via cash (directly or indirectly).

Unfortunately, this is rarely met. Free to play games especially often fail miserably on number 2.

Take Neverwinter, as one of the worst examples. There's no matching at all, all players fight each other regardless of their gear in an entirely gear-based set up. And essentially all the gear that matters is directly purchasable with cash.

nariusseldon

Athisar said:

I think gear based PVP in MMOs can be reasonably done as long as:

1. There is adequate matching between players, so that only similarly geared players fight each other.
2. Progression is via play, and no advantages can be obtained via cash (directly or indirectly).

Unfortunately, this is rarely met. Free to play games especially often fail miserably on number 2.

Take Neverwinter, as one of the worst examples. There's no matching at all, all players fight each other regardless of their gear in an entirely gear-based set up. And essentially all the gear that matters is directly purchasable with cash.

(1) is easy. Just do what GW2 plans to do in their e-sports. You are given max level characters with access to all gear.

nerovergil

play gw2, support them, great game. all mmorpg follow gw2 pvp.

Kyleran

nerovergil said:

play gw2, support them, great game. all mmorpg follow gw2 pvp.

Genre dies.

Loke666

Athisar said:

Doesn't Guild Wars 2 equalise all gear for PVP? I've heard it does but I don't play.

It does for small scale PvP but not for the WvW. In WvW you do get HP enough as you were max level but the gear stay which mean a lvl 2 can kill a lvl 80 there but it is very hard and you better be great at dodging.

I think it is the only modern MMO that does what OP wants.

Loke666

Kyleran said:

nerovergil said:

play gw2, support them, great game. all mmorpg follow gw2 pvp.

Genre dies.

No, it wouldn't do that. We would get another 5 years of clones though which would be pretty bad (and I like GW2s PvP but I certainly don't want 50 games with identical PvP).

If cloning would have killed the genre it would have been dead 8 years or so ago.

Sovrath

makasouleater69 said:

Don't see why they couldn't just make one where everything is the same a modern MMO, just that when you join a pvp match, battle or something like that, all stats go to a base level. 

It's probably because many mmo's are also role playing games and that usually entails progression, leveling, making your character better.

There seems to be a schism between mmo players where there are those who want to work on/build/level their character and those who want to do away with that and just have everything based on their own abilities.

and some in between I suppose.

Kyleran

Loke666 said:

Kyleran said:

nerovergil said:

play gw2, support them, great game. all mmorpg follow gw2 pvp.

Genre dies.

No, it wouldn't do that. We would get another 5 years of clones though which would be pretty bad (and I like GW2s PvP but I certainly don't want 50 games with identical PvP).

If cloning would have killed the genre it would have been dead 8 years or so ago.

Genre is pretty much on life support now from all the cloning..

Loke666

Sovrath said:

It's probably because many mmo's are also role playing games and that usually entails progression, leveling, making your character better.

There seems to be a schism between mmo players where there are those who want to work on/build/level their character and those who want to do away with that and just have everything based on their own abilities.

and some in between I suppose.

The problem really is that PvE usually is about gaining power, and a lot of it. That works very well for PvE but it makes pretty boring PvP.§

MMOs tend to either be made for PvE with a little PvP added as an afterthought or the other way around. And the half @ssed type of gameplay never get even close as popular as the one the game is fouces on.

The schism you are talking about really is between PvP and PvE fans. The some in between probably enjoy both types of gameplay.

In theory you can of course make a great game where both PvP and PvE is fun but you need to make the mechanics specifically for it from start or split them with 2 very different mechanics. And you need to put about the same amount of work into both gameplays. Few games have succeeded with this even partially.

filmoret

Archeage and Shaiya,   Just spend 80000$ an you wont have to grind.

Antiquated

Counterstrike.

ste2000

Guild Wars 2